2010 Heisman Candidates

[poptart]

don't know what pop is really driving at

Being polite (even though he doesn't deserve it) and answering M Club's posts and questions.


I made three basic points in the thread.

1. The Heisman nonsense is very wack.
2. D-1 ball is more fresh than the NFL (and probably all other major sports) - but it was even more fresh 20-30 years ago.
3. D-1 college football, because of it's overall very cloudy circumstances, is not to be taken seriously by me - I consider it a farce.

Don't agree?

Hey, fine - they're just ONE guy's opinions.

[M Club]

I never said cfb is less competetive than it used to be.

The sport has been dicked with in a way that takes it further away from ... PURE ... competition.

those of us who can draw logical inferences would mention football moving away from ... PURE! ... competition would mean it's becoming less competitive w/r/t the rules of football. this after going on about all the cheating and blah blah blah this team has better players it's not fair and whatever incoherent shit you were writing. i went back and read. it makes no sense.

Do you remember why I said D-1 football is a farce?

If you remember, what did I say?

i really don't give a fuck what you have to say. all you threw up were a bunch of unsubstantiated hunches, which, if true (and i'll grant you) means cfb is run similarly to any other sport. college basketball is no less seedy. and if you're really trying to convince anyone that what goes on behind closed doors in the ncaa is worse than what goes on in the professional world, where teams pony up hundreds of millions in payroll, then you're even more clueless than you've let on. every accusation you throw at cfb you can do likewise at the nfl.

I never said the Heisman is more of a farce than other poy awards.

I said it is pretentious, the process (which apparently begins months before the season even begins) is wack, and it is phenomenally idiotic bullshit.

It's not a farce, though.

There is legitimate voting for the award.

how is the heisman pretentious if it's awarded based on legitimate vote? or again, you're just upset people who like cfb talk about cfb. i mean, i can't believe college football analysts at espn would talk go on air to talk about cfb, especially in may when teams have just come through their spring practices. or that a player's previous couple years' performance would be taken into account when discussing possible candidates for the upcoming year.

[poptart]

Do you remember why I said D-1 football is a farce?

If you remember, what did I say?

i really don't give a fuck what you have to say.

:)

Yep.
That's the name of the tune in this thread.

Despite "not giving a fuck what I have to say," you chase it down relentlessly - and attribute multiple, ... check that, MANY multiple takes to me, which I never gave.

You've seriously made a horrible mess in here, M Club.

And on top of that, I really have to wonder why my faith would be such an issue to you ... in the college football forum.

You've made a dozen-or-more goofy references to such things.

Yeah, that's just a little bit spooky.


You obviously can't recognize the difference between the words COMPETETIVE and COMPETITION.

But nobody is surprised.

Throughout the thread, and likely your life, you've demonstrated yourself to be a pinhead.

I see CF to be, on the field, just as COMPETETIVE as it ever was - and maybe more.
The players bust it and do their best to win, or ... to make a name for themself. *wink*

But what I am NOT sold on, is that is a legit COMPETITION that I should regard in any way other than to laugh at.

And I told you why I laff at it and consider it a farce.

D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

I'm not convinced at all that it is very close to being a legitimately fair COMPETITON.

But yes, the players and teams ARE competetive.
They compete.

you threw up were a bunch of unsubstantiated hunches, which, if true (and i'll grant you) means cfb is run similarly to any other sport

D-1 college football is not run anywhere CLOSE to similarly to the NFL, numbnuts.

how is the heisman pretentious if it's awarded based on legitimate vote?

Do you know what pretentious means?

A dictionary could be your friend, 'tard.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

You obviously can't recognize the difference between the words COMPETETIVE and COMPETITION.

Let's see. You can talk a whooooole lot without actually saying anything at all. Then you make sure to claim bode at every corner. Have you considered a career in politics?

[poptart]

Moving Sale and Rumplewife could have a spirited wrestling match.

They could both bust it and sell out to win the match.

They would both be COMPETETIVE in that they are enjoying the match (Rumplewife more than MS, granted) and ... competing.


But it would not be a fair COMPETITION - due to 200+ lb pound weight differential.

[.m2]

Why on earth is "fruit loops" even in this forum ?

You do realize he finds eating "Lassie" and moving his crib and family just south of the North Korean border as a positive .


Nuff said.

[poptart]

Good question.

Now that you've been allowed to post here, I am OUT!

[indyfrisco]

Good question.

Now that you've been allowed to post here, I am OUT!

mJew ran poptah?

say it isn't so

[FLW Buckeye]

Bwahaha...

[Dinsdale]

Pops -- As much as MTool is ridiculed here...

He seems to have a much better understanding of CFB than you do. He trolls to levels of unprecedented douchitude, but he understands the game.


Which, frankly, doesn't speak well of you.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

poptart was run.

infamous words that will go down in t1b lore.

[poptart]

mtroll is now BANNED!

So I'm told.

Pops -- As much as MTool is ridiculed here...

He seems to have a much better understanding of CFB than you do. He trolls to levels of unprecedented douchitude, but he understands the game.


Which, frankly, doesn't speak well of you.

Very funny, coming from you, who fouled it off your foot and failed to get out of the batter's box when I came in high and hard on you for your m0ronic "Yeah, but there's 10,000 D-1 college football players" sniveling, in taking up for the very wack Heisman silliness.

You went silent, as you should have.

Feeling stupid yet? You probably should.

[Killian]

In my day, everything was better!!! I don't have to tell you exactly what I mean, it just was!!!

Cliff note version of your 3 pages of posts on this topic.

[poptart]

Cliff note version of your 3 pages of posts on this topic.

lol

Yeah, you're a HUGE fucking 'tard.

D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

It is a total JOKE and anyone who financially supports such trash should immediately check themself into a mental institution.

It is NOT intercollegiate athletics.

It is an absolute pile of horseshit.


Turn D-1 College into an NFL farm system.
Or a minor league.
Or let the athletes make college football their major.
Or pay the players.
Or SOMETHING.

Because what is going on right now is seriously fucking sick.

No comment to make, college ball fan/retard?

[Killian]

How is that any different than 20 years ago? 30?

Why don't you just shut the fuck up and take your stupid ass back to the wasteland that is the NFL forum? You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and you can't explain your stupid fucking position on CFB or the Heisman.

Most of the people here can at least back up their takes, no matter how inane. The only one that struggles wirth this is m2, yet he ran your ass without so much as picking up his 21 sided die and rolling for immunity.

So spell out why/how tne NCAA was less vanilla or packaged compared to 20 or 30 years ago, oe get the fuck out of here.

[poptart]

m2, yet he ran your ass without so much as picking up his 21 sided die and rolling for immunity.

Look.
I'm here and he's gone.

Why don't you just shut the fuck up and take your stupid ass back to the wasteland that is the NFL forum?

haha

I'm still an NFL fan (maybe barely), and I can tell you that if someone came into the NFL forum and gave takes denegrating the sport, and spelled out their takes, I would very much WELCOME the dialogue.
I may agree or disagree with their takes, but would welcome the banter.
Because I am really not defensive about the sport.

It's been my observation that passionate D-1 college football fan is a unique creature.
Different than "passionate" NFL fan.

College fan can accept some criticism of the sport, but if it get's a little too much, he takes it like ... criticism of family.

So I wondered why that is.
Why does his back rise so strongly when the sport is criticized?

Then I realized why it is.

Many passionate D-1 college football fans have some tie to (or background with) the University they support.

They are may be alum.
Or their family is/was.
Or they support the U.
Or they work for the U.
Or they have some allegiance to the U. somehow.

That's why, despite the HUGE elephant being in the room of this sport (it's a farce), he blocks it out and DIGS the sport anyway.

It is both a commentary on the values (or lack of) in late 20th century, early 21st century America, and human psychology.

1.
I mocked the Heisman.
Because the pretentious Heisman hype and Heisman obsession is a very laffable phenomenon.
I explained over and over (for very slow M Club) why this is so.

I guess he still disagrees.

I give Rumps PROPS for being upfront and giving a good take.
As I mocked the Heisman, he said this ...

In college, it's all about the Heisman and it's analyzed and broken down every single week by the so called media gurus. The masses pay attention to it and chime in with their endless blogs and message board fodder. The debate is fun to follow. But that's just me...and millions of other people who are intrigued by it.

Again, I don't see the problem with the hype and build up because...well...I'm a fucking fan.

He knows in the back of his mind, and in the pit of his stomach, that it's all a bit wack (he said it's got "issues"), but he's a FAN, so he's in to it.

It's a fair take.
I respect it.

And PSU also weighed in well, saying this ...

I certainly am no fan of the marketing campaign that they call the Heisman race. I don't think I've ever read a regular from this forum assert that they had a lot of respect for how the race is conducted. However, it has always provided good discussion material here. Good discussion mixed with some good-natured smack is what makes for a good forum that stands a chance at lasting, as I see it.

Fair enough.



2.
The primary point I made was that I consider D-1 college football to be a farce.
It's not to be taken seriously by me.

Again, I posted this ...

D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

It is a total JOKE and anyone who financially supports such trash should immediately check themself into a mental institution.

It is NOT intercollegiate athletics.

It is an absolute pile of horseshit.


Turn D-1 College into an NFL farm system.
Or a minor league.
Or let the athletes make college football their major.
Or pay the players.
Or SOMETHING.

Because what is going on right now is seriously fucking sick.

There was a slight bit of shuffling of the feet and under-the-breath muttering about it, but predictably (to me) D-1 college football fan chose to IGNORE the huge elephant in the room of his sport rather than engage in a discussion about it.

Once again, I give Rumps slight PROPS for having a take.

He said this ...

Nothing is perfect. College football is far from perfect, but why stop watching your alma mater because the game is a farce? There still is true passion on this level, no matter if there are cheaters or not.

He loves his alma mater, he loves the passion, and he's willing to sweep the "farce" nature of the sport under the rug so as to continue on with his enjoyment.

That's fine and it's basically as I suspected.

Sometimes as my wife will watch a soap opera, I will say, "Honey, you know this is REALLY silly stuff, right?

She'll say, "Well, yes, but I ... like ... it."

So be it.


And very slight props to PSU for commenting, "yes" to one of my suggestions - that being, let athletes make football their major.

He apparently recognizes that there is a better way for the sport to be handled than how it is handled now.


You can comment, Killian, about my take as to why I laff at D-1 college ball, don't take it seriously, and consider it to be a farce -- or not.
It's up to you.

So far nobody has chosen to really engage on the point, and it is what I predicted, in my own mind.
It is easier, psychologically, to just block out that which may cause you to question something which you've become so very emotionally attached to - YOUR University team and YOUR beloved sport.

Myself, I don't see how any objective and "distanced" individual could look at D-1 college football and conclude anything other than the take I produced above.



3.
"The NCAA was less vanilla or packaged compared to 20 or 30 years ago."

The fact that this bunched panties to SUCH an extent, and was SO misunderstood, is very funny.

My point here DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH my take that D-1 college ball is a farce.

It was just an observation on my part, having watched ALL SPORTS over the past 5 decades.

And I backhandedly (is it a word, Van?) complimented college football for being MORE fresh, more distinct, more unique, more creative, etc., than the other sports.

M Club just got hung up on this point and tied himself into a knot.

lol

Hey, Killian, if you don't agree with that little take of mine, fine.
I went to great lengths to try to explain it, and conceeded that it's very hard to define and pin down.

But again, that little take had NOTHING TO DO WITH my take on college ball being a farce, or the Heisman.


Last chance for you if you want to give a take on my take that D-1 college ball is a farce.

Or not.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

but predictably (to me) D-1 college football fan chose to IGNORE the huge elephant in the room of his sport rather than engage in a discussion about it.

The ignored probably stems from your obvious trolling act in here, since you've got all these anti-cfb takes with nothing substantial to back them up. The engagement ended when you attempted to bait rational cfb fans on the premise of "I've got nuthin', it is what it is BECAUSE I SAID SO!" That doesn't inspire intelligent discussion. Personally, I completely lost interest after reading that. There was nowhere to go with it. All your words and all your spacing hasn't actually brought anything worth disputing.

[poptart]

Hilarious.

The last time I gave this take in here (a year - maybe two, ago), I got the same response - "You're trolling."

That's how far off the deep end in denial and tunnel vision college fan is, imo.

D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

It is a total JOKE and anyone who financially supports such trash should immediately check themself into a mental institution.

It is NOT intercollegiate athletics.

It is an absolute pile of horseshit.


Turn D-1 College into an NFL farm system.
Or a minor league.
Or let the athletes make college football their major.
Or pay the players.
Or SOMETHING.

Because what is going on right now is seriously fucking sick.

This is not worth disputing?

You're cuckoo, imo.

War Wagon's daughter participated in intercollegiate athletics.
And it was the real deal.

I have MUCH more respect for that sport and would have MUCH more interest in watching one of those games ... to take it seriously as a legit competition, giving me what it tells me I am getting.

Because the parameters of the activities are set and I have much confidence that if I watch two teams compete, they are operating within the set parameters.

In D-1 college football, I have every reason to question (strongly question) whether two given teams are operating within the parameters they are said to be operating within.

It's very obvious to me that the integrity of the D-1 college game is SO cloudy, so murky, so "iffy," so loaded with past scandal, that a rational person can not be secure in his mind of what exactly he is watching.
So I therefore don't take it seriously.

If say, the University of Georgia is taking on LSU, my default setting is ... "The University of Bullshit vs. the University of Fraud."

Now maybe it's all kosher.
Everything is as it's said to be.

I just can't rightfully trust it.

Because my brain is functioning.


Rumps is the only person who touched this.

He loves his alma mater, he loves the passion, and he's willing to sweep the "farce" nature of the sport under the rug so as to continue on with his enjoyment.

I give him credit for having a take on it.


Oh well.

Enjoy your "game," fliends.

[M Club]

I explained over and over (for very slow M Club) why this is so.

you haven't explained anything. you've thrown out commentary on a variety of points and have since ducked ad nauseum when people asked for substantiation. the one time you you've even give it a go was to ridicule the heisman process. i asked how it's different than any other poy and the best you can do is that people discuss it a lot more than the others.

anyone who's responded to your hollow pablum has done so with "huh?" that would be the red flashing light telling you everyone's right and you're wrong. shit, your new point is that cfb fans can't objectively discuss cfb because they like cfb. pretty astute considering the only people i know who complain about the bcs or changes to rules are cfb fans. wrong suits you well, though.


as for this, your magnum opus:

D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

It is a total JOKE and anyone who financially supports such trash should immediately check themself into a mental institution.

It is NOT intercollegiate athletics.

It is an absolute pile of horseshit.


Turn D-1 College into an NFL farm system.
Or a minor league.
Or let the athletes make college football their major.
Or pay the players.
Or SOMETHING.

Because what is going on right now is seriously fucking sick.

no one's going to comment on it because there's nothing to comment on. you're just ranting. and later you're just lying. ja, you're really going to turn down tickets to texas/oklahoma to go watch wag's daughter play softball.

I'm still an NFL fan (maybe barely), and I can tell you that if someone came into the NFL forum and gave takes denegrating the sport, and spelled out their takes, I would very much WELCOME the dialogue.

oh, good point. still waiting for you to spell out:

1. how cfb "has moved toward vanilla" the last whatever years.
2. how the heisman is so much more pretentious (or whatever word you choose to use) than any other poy awards.
3. how cfb is a farce (since unsubstantiated comments aren't convincing in themselves)


or just to make things easier for you:

Now maybe it's all kosher.
Everything is as it's said to be.

I just can't rightfully trust it.

Because my brain is functioning.

why don't you just answer whether or not you even watch sports? i'm curious which ones you actually follow.

[M Club]

And on top of that, I really have to wonder why my faith would be such an issue to you ... in the college football forum.

You've made a dozen-or-more goofy references to such things.

Yeah, that's just a little bit spooky.

not really spooky at all. somewhere along the line you began to mistake faith-based reasoning for actual logic. apparently you thrive in an environment where someone can use "god works in mysterious ways" to explain away their sophism. plus, you resemble just about every other bible banger i've come across who's much less christian than the unbelievers they're always warning are going to hell. not a lot of people i know call their wife a slant.

[poptart]

1. how cfb "has moved toward vanilla" the last whatever years.

As I've said many times, dullard, the point has NOTHING to do with my take that I consider D-1 college ball to be a farce.

Nothing.

Can you get that? lol

It was an opinion.

For your sake, forget that ... opinion ... if it yerks you so badly.

You can feel free to have your own opinion, I don't care.

2. how the heisman is so much more pretentious (or whatever word you choose to use) than any other poy awards.

Oh, it is clearly more pretentious than the other POY awards.

If you are too blind to recognize that, well, you're just ... too blind.

3. how cfb is a farce (since unsubstantiated comments aren't convincing in themselves)

It's been explained many times in this thread by me.

Anyone not able to read my points ... can not read.


So let's try this with you and see where it goes.

Let's take a player, and we could choose MANY MANY such players.
But we'll take a high profile guy - and ask two questions.


Vince Young - University of Texas


What's do you think aout this.

1. Vince Young was paid money to attend U.T., either during recruitment or while at the school?

a) no way
b) probably not
c) probably yes
d) definitely yes


2. Vince Young was a normal functioning student while at U.T., receiving no scholastic favors and no inappropriate scholastic manipulation of any kind.

a) definitely yes
b) probably yes
c) probably not
d) definitely not


What do you imagine?

[poptart]

you're really going to turn down tickets to texas/oklahoma to go watch wag's daughter play softball.

I wouldn't turn down free tickets to watch Texas/Oklahoma.
It'd be fine with me.

I wouldn't pay to attend it.

Are you fucking kidding me?


Prolly wouldn't have paid to watch Wagon's daugher play her games.
Doubt that I would have needed to, anyway.

Those games wouldn't have been high on my list of fun things to do, but I could appreciate it.

[M Club]

1. how cfb "has moved toward vanilla" the last whatever years.

As I've said many times, dullard, the point has NOTHING to do with my take that I consider D-1 college ball to be a farce.

Nothing.

Can you get that? lol

It was an opinion.

For your sake, forget that ... opinion ... if it yerks you so badly.

You can feel free to have your own opinion, I don't care.

ja, fine, separate points: [1] cfb is a farce and [2] cfb has moved toward something you refer to as vanilla. care to explain #2 then?

and it's rather obvious you have your opinions. they're just not informed opinions. if they were you'd be able to throw out something other than "it just seems that way to me."

2. how the heisman is so much more pretentious (or whatever word you choose to use) than any other poy awards.

Oh, it is clearly more pretentious than the other POY awards.

If you are too blind to recognize that, well, you're just ... too blind.

your points about the heisman involve solicitation and discussion generated by interest, wholly original to cfb.

3. how cfb is a farce (since unsubstantiated comments aren't convincing in themselves)

It's been explained many times in this thread by me.

Anyone not able to read my points ... can not read.

ok, that makes sense. poptart > everyone else

So let's try this with you and see where it goes.

let's. your insinuation is clear. fine, answer my question about what sports you follow. cleary your principles here wouldn't allow you to watch any considering that rant of yours applies to every sport save naia softball. tell me what sport you've found that's played on a level field. take your time.

I wouldn't turn down free tickets to watch Texas/Oklahoma.
It'd be fine with me.

ja, of course you wouldn't. you don't even believe yourself.

[poptart]

Well, you didn't answer my Vince Young questions, but I guess you can see that by answering, it takes you into the abyss.

My own answers would have been:

1. Vince Young was paid money to attend U.T., either during recruitment or while at the school?

c) probably yes


2. Vince Young was a normal functioning student while at U.T., receiving no scholastic favors and no inappropriate scholastic manipulation of any kind.

c) probably not (leaning strongly toward DEFINITELY NOT, although I have no way to know this for sure)


One might answer that he probably didn't receive money from U.T.
And one might answer that he probably did appropriately handle all of his scholastics at U.T. by his little lonesome.

But there is definitely, at the very least a seed of ... doubt, if a person is rational, imo.


In the NFL, we know how players are acquired by teams.
It's an open book.
It's via draft, trade, or free agency.

We know how players are compensated.
There is (or was) a salary cap and player contracts are public knowledge.

The parameters of the sport are set and I have pretty much confidence that teams are not, or can not, be in violation of the parameters.

In D-1 college football, I simply can not trust that schools are operating within the parameters which are established.

Oversimplification, but I think you can get my point - if Florida State beats Auburn 31-17, I think, "Oh, Florida State found ways to CHEAT better than Auburn did this year."

I don't trust how teams acquire their players, I don't trust that some of them are not being paid, and I surely don't trust that scholastic misdeeds are not being done.

The whole atmosphere of D-1 college football is WAY too cloudy, murky, and "iffy," and it's history is so loaded with past scandal, that I simply can't look at it with anything but mistrust.

I just can't really be sure what I'm watching.

Based on what they say it is, I view it as a farce.

D-1 College Farceball.

They should adopt one of (or a mix of) the alternatives I mentioned - if integrity prevailed.


M Club, nearly ALL sports have some murky aspects to their parameters.
The pro sports are VERY sensitive about maintaining "integrity" in the eyes of the fans.
Officiating scandals and gambling issues are taken VERY seriously because they want desperately for the fan to keep on viewing the sport as having integrity.
Nevertheless, as I said, they all have some "cloudy" areas and areas where the fan might go, "hmmmmm ...."

But D-1 college football is at a WHOLE different level, and I've done my best to tell you why I think that.

D-1 college farceball is just laffably perverse in SO many ways.


Quick takes on sports that I like or dislike:

MLB has been ruined.
The NBA doesn't appeal to me much anymore - and I don't trust the officiating.
College Basketball is similar to College Football - I'm not IN.
Hockey - good sport live - but not really a fan.
Soccer - gay
The NFL is my favortire, but it is hanging on by a thread - too much parity, too much of a loss of character, it lost it's soul a while back - too many teams looking way too much alike - bland - I have mistrust of the officiating and the league office.
Pro tennis - I like the competition, but the sport has been hurt very badly by the equipment explosion - glorified table tennis these days
Golf can be ok

[M Club]

Well, you didn't answer my Vince Young questions, but I guess you can see that by answering, it takes you into the abyss.

it doesn't take me into the abyss. you're making insinuations in an appeal to cynicism. do i think a few cfb players here and there get extra benefits? i assume so. i also think ohio state spends half their time kicking my school's ass and the other half cheating. but then again. the rules are so onerous and require so much documentation that ohio state actually spends half its time self-reporting secondary violations, shit like "texted recruit 15 minutes before arbitrary contact period began."

the cheating you bring up isn't nearly as widespread as you've made it out to be. contrary to what van would have you believe, compliance departments are up in their players' arses about nearly everything because the ncaa is no different than the professional leagues as far as your point re: maintaining integrity in the public eye, not to mention negative recruiting. you don't think other schools are mum when word leaks about improper recruiting?

In the NFL, we know how players are acquired by teams.
It's an open book.
It's via draft, trade, or free agency.

We know how players are compensated.
There is (or was) a salary cap and player contracts are public knowledge.

The parameters of the sport are set and I have pretty much confidence that teams are not, or can not, be in violation of the parameters.

er, we think we know how teams are acquired by teams. funny, i can say the same about cfb: players are acquired via a recruiting process and compensated with an education. yet in cfb we assume that process is corrupt while in the nfl/nba/mlb we're supposed to assume the rules are followed to the letter of the law. i doubt drafts are rigged and that free agent transactions are conducted exclusively over lunch at outback.

The pro sports are VERY sensitive about maintaining "integrity" in the eyes of the fans.
Officiating scandals and gambling issues are taken VERY seriously because they want desperately for the fan to keep on viewing the sport as having integrity.
Nevertheless, as I said, they all have some "cloudy" areas and areas where the fan might go, "hmmmmm ...."

hmm, i like that, "some cloudy areas," as if pumping an entire oline full of horse steroids is somehow worse than changing a D+ to a C, or making sure your refs give kobe bryant a piggy back ride to the free throw line if the lakers are down in the series is the equivalent of dropping a stripper on a hs senior in for a visit. if pro sports were really so concerned about public image as to ensure "pure competition" then barry bonds wouldn't hold any home run records. i think this speaks to your concerns about genuine competition.

Quick takes on sports that I like or dislike:

i hate them all.

[Dinsdale]

Pops -- you know I'm a :BIGFAN:. Your both one of the prmiere smackers and debaters here...

and you're getting your ass handed to you here.

Hell, I'm not even neutral here -- I'm a Pops defender (despite your ridiculous takes on religion, but that's not my mission on these boards... when I log in, it's all about smack/discourse, in that order. Because frankly, for those who haven't figured it out yet... I really couldn't give a fuck).


But Pops... you've been beaten and abused here. And instead of claiming it, I'll explain it:

There's 1500 NFL players. There's 10,000+ D1 players. That's point !.

How's that offseason NFL talk going? Don't know about you, but I've heard plenty... more that I can take.

But all of a sudden, when CFB has meaningless (and just like the NFL offseason, save for signings, it's meaningless) offseason discussions of "who might do what," it's a "farce"?


I kinda get your point about fair competition and a level playing field... I really do. But gee... teams like Texas, OU, Bama, and USC have tradition, and they sign all of the top "free agents"?

Really? This comes as some big :shocker" to you?

Really?

You're smater than this.


Team A offers a big name free agent X amount of $$. Team B is in a small market, and hasn't won shit, and doesn't have big companies to offer endorsements, and isn't in a position to win anytime soon.


Which team does the big-name free agent sign with?


There's your disparity.


And you may shut up now.

Seriously -- I'm an Oregon fan. Which team has the most money to blow (maybe outside of Texas)?

Uhm, that would be Oregon.

And I'm pretty sure you can still get online and order a Joey Harringinton football shoe. And an AJ Feeley football shoe. And a Haloti Ngata shoe. And a Demetrius Williams shoe.


Blank fucking checkbook, bro.


And how many MNCs has that translated into?


Conversely (or Nikely, if you prefer) -- how many championships has Jerry Jones blank-checkbook-within-the-cap produced?


Maybe the same number that Uncle Phil has bought?


Texas has "tradition." Oklahoma has "tradition." Alabama has "tradition." Florida didn't have tradition, but brought in a legendary coach who established tradition, which paid off.



Look at the NBA right now, since it's current and relevant -- who's in line for the big name free agents (which every HS recruit is, in essence)...

The Knicks. The Bulls. And within their budget restraints, even the Lakers.

What do those teams have?

"Tradition."



Welcome to sports, you ignorant douche. The rich get richer.

The very concept that this issome groundbreaking shit to you...

well, it frankly explains your lathing on to the Fairy Tales.


Of all people, you are a good man, and I truly wish I could empty my bank account (all $0.14 of it) and buy you a clue. Even just the slightest glimps of reality might make you one hell of a guy.

[poptart]

But all of a sudden, when CFB has meaningless (and just like the NFL offseason, save for signings, it's meaningless) offseason discussions of "who might do what," it's a "farce"?

I have no idea what this means.
Are you talking about my mocking of the Heisman?

If you're saying that I said the Heisman is a farce, you're following M Club and putting takes on my keyboard.

I didn't say the Heisman is a farce.

kinda get your point about fair competition and a level playing field

In all sports there are "haves" and "have nots."
I have NO problem with some school(s) building up long traditions of excellence and therefore seeing a "snowball effect" of more good players ending up signing there.

Since you like me so much, I'm interested in your answer to the two simple Vince Young questions.
So simple even he could answer them.


1. Vince Young was paid money to attend U.T., either during recruitment or while at the school.

a) no way
b) probably not
c) probably yes
d) definitely yes


2. Vince Young was a normal functioning student while at U.T., receiving no scholastic favors and no inappropriate scholastic manipulation of any kind.

a) definitely yes
b) probably yes
c) probably not
d) definitely not


What say Dinsdale?

[poptart]

i like that, "some cloudy areas," as if pumping an entire oline full of horse steroids is somehow worse than changing a D+ to a C, or making sure your refs give kobe bryant a piggy back ride to the free throw line if the lakers are down in the series is the equivalent of dropping a stripper on a hs senior in for a visit.

As I said, I am not a fan of the NBA, and I don't trust the officiating.


The NFL tests for steroids, M Club.

And I think you grossly under-acknowledge the degree of D-1 improprieties by saying, "changing a D+ to a C-, or giving a senior some stripper fun during a visit."

That's just funny.

[M Club]

The NFL tests for steroids, M Club.

followed by

And I think you grossly under-acknowledge the degree of D-1 improprieties by saying, "changing a D+ to a C-, or giving a senior some stripper fun during a visit."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. you couldn't even pretend to be more clueless.

the nfl tests for banned substances, by the by. the nfl substance-abuse policy is probably the best indicator of what passes for reality.

[poptart]

English?




Now you may also consider, if you want to go down this road -- that if the NFL is failing in it's drug testing, ummm ... maybe the college game is too?

lol

:wink:




yw

[M Club]

English?

i have an m.a. in the subject. you?

the nfl tests for banned substances. that's quite different from "the nfl tests for steroids."

though we could go down this road if you'd like. then again, i'm not the one using comparisons between cfb and the nfl to illustrate why the college game is a farce.

[The Seer]

m2, yet he ran your ass without so much as picking up his 21 sided die and rolling for immunity.

Look.
I'm here and he's gone.

mtool is/was a complete joke; but I'm hoping that the fact you ran home and told mom and mom (re-banned?) the tool is not remotely to be construed as an attempt in any way, shape, or form you claiming some type of twisted, obscure phylum of "bode"....

[poptart]

then again, i'm not the one using comparisons between cfb and the nfl to illustrate why the college game is a farce.

Oh, I am, and it's a fun exercise.

You didn't/wouldn't answer the two V. Young questions.

That was noted.


Dins' logic (or total lack of) in his previous post was also noted.

ALL of the "major" sports (MLB, NBA, NHL, D-1 College Balls, NFL) have teams or schools which "recruits" would find more desirable.

That is present in ALL of the sports.

I acknowledge it.
You acknowledge it.

Why Dinsdale would choose to go there to try to make a point defies logic.

What is NOT present in all the sports is the "murky" nature and potential underhandedness present in D-1 college football - in acquiring players, compensating them, and in their diligence in living up to being a legit student.

Acquiring players
In the NFL, Oakland drafts Rolando McClain.
It's all above board.
They simply chose him.

Oakland signs free agent John Henderson.
It's above board.
Oakland wanted him, he wanted Oakland.
He's signed and his contract is public knowledge.

Oakland trades for Jason Campbell.
It's all above board.
Oakland and Washington work out the compensation.

In D-1 College Ball, U.T. signs Vince Young.
U.T. wanted him, he wanted U.T. - he signs.
It's all above board -- we would want to assume.

But we know this ...

http://www.lostlettermen.com/2010/06/to ... -scandals/

Did U.T. pay for him?
Did they out-bid some other school?

I think it's rational to ... wonder about it, at the very least.

I don't think anyone could rationally answer "no way" to the question of whether or not Vince was ever paid to attend, or while attending, Tejas.

There is reasonable doubt present.


Compensating Players
In the NFL, contracts are public knowledge.
There is/was a salary cap.
We've had very little reason to doubt that teams are within these parameters.

In D-1 college football, players are given scholarships.
And ...
lol

http://www.lostlettermen.com/2010/06/to ... -scandals/

There is reason to wonder if players are being compensated beyond their scholarship.

imo


Dilgence in being a legit student
In the NFL, there is obviously nothing a player must do.

In D-1 college ball, a player must perform as a student.
Do they perform, absent scholastic manipulation?

You've heard Vince Young (and MANY other clearly DUMB "student- athletes") speak?

I submit that there is good reason to wonder if some (at the very least) illegal manipulation of the scholastic system is taking place.


In Daughter Wagon's softball league, and the NFL, I trust that players are acquired as we are told they are.
I trust that they are compensated as we are told they are.
And I trust that there is very little scholastic manipulation going on - in the NFL, obviously it doesn't factor in at all.

I basically trust the integrity of the competition, as it is sold to us.
Therefore I can take it seriously.

But I can't view a Saturday of D-1 college ball with anything other than contempt or mockery.

Intercollegiate athletics?

har har


Hey, if you block it out or rationalize it away, fine for you.
Don't let little ol' poptart ruin your days.

I think you're a little nuts and I am NOT IN.

[Carson]

Poptart reminds me of the nutbag "preachers" who frequent the concourse at college, rambling on incessantly as students walk by without even turning their heads...

[poptart]

Carson is like a boy who enters a room where adults are conversing, mutters something completely inane, and then goes back to his room to play with his Leggos.

[War Wagon]

Prolly wouldn't have paid to watch Wagon's daugher play her games.

I damn sure did, many times. Money well spent.

what was the topic again?

Oh... :facepalm:

'tart, bro... you're all over the place. Punt.

[poptart]

'tart, bro... you're all over the place.

Actually not.

M Club spent 2/3 of the thread assigning bogus takes to me, or blatantly mischaracterizing my takes, which are very elementary.


1. The Heisman is pretentious, silly, and obsessive.

Most college fans know that to be true.



2. D-1 College Football is a complete farce.

Every Saturday of D-1 College Football is like the Little League World Series - in a season where some team rolls everyone because they've weaseled a couple of stud 14 yr olds onto the squad.

You've got cheating ALL OVER the landscape.
Players being paid, players balling who should be academically ineligble, players who never should have been eligible in the first place, players who never should have been admitted to college, players who have someone else do their homework, players who are coddled and pushed through, players receiving favors, ... etc...

And as you tune in to a game, you have NO IDEA who these guys are ... or how many of them are running around the field.

You have NO IDEA which teams are rolling people because they are scamming everyone - or that they are better scammers than the other folks.

It is a total JOKE and anyone who financially supports such trash should immediately check themself into a mental institution.

It is NOT intercollegiate athletics.

It is an absolute pile of horseshit.

Turn D-1 College into an NFL farm system.
Or a minor league.
Or let the athletes make college football their major.
Or pay the players.
Or SOMETHING.



Why no take on any of #2?

Are those not legitimate points for discussion?

Of COURSE they are.

College fan has conspicuously hid from answering #2 - save for Rumps (slightly), PSU (barely), M Club (in very strange fashion) and Dinsdale, who I give credit to for at least engaging in the discussion.


You wanna answer the two Vince Young questions?

Those are also very legit, but are somehow like the plague to college ball fan.

[M Club]

M Club spent 2/3 of the thread assigning bogus takes to me, or blatantly mischaracterizing my takes, which are very elementary.

i've actually engaged your questions rather directly. you just keep insisting what you said isn't what you said.

your vince young questions have no bearing on anything other than how closely anyone shares the same unsubstantiated assumptions you've made about college football when, in fact, you have no idea what cfb looks like as an everyday operation.

even if you were able to engage in discussion as anything other than a sociopath, all your credibility would have been shot the moment you began trumpeting professional sports as paragons of this 'competition' you keep bringing up. you don't make much of a point by overstating the scandals that have occurred in cfb over the years while simultaneously ignoring the day-to-day in the nfl. anyone who's posted in this thread has called you the dipshit you are.

[poptart]

you began trumpeting professional sports as paragons of this 'competition' you keep bringing up.

Something I never did.

lol

Another false take attributed to me.


Fact, I told you I am barely still an NFL fan, have misgivings about the officiating and the league office (among other things).
I said I don't like the NBA and don't trust the officiating.
I said MLB has been ruined.
I didn't harshly criticize Hockey.


Grow a sack and simply answer the two V. Young questions or I won't respond to you further.

[M Club]

Grow a sack and simply answer the two V. Young questions or I won't respond to you further.

i just did, dick stopper. nice excuse for getting run, though.