"Torture" Memos

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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:
smackaholic wrote: Let's see if I got this right.

You're OK with shooting them in the head on sight.

You're not OK with capturing them and throwing them in the dunking tank for a little bit.

Interesting.
If you'd read my earlier response, you'd have noted that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorist thugs-killing every last one of them would be fine by me......

what I do care about is that the leader of my country obey the fucking law....it isn't rocket science bud
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:
smackaholic wrote:

Let's see if I got this right.

You're OK with shooting them in the head on sight.

You're not OK with capturing them and throwing them in the dunking tank for a little bit.

Interesting.
If you'd read my earlier response, you'd have noted that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorist thugs-killing every last one of them would be fine by me......

what I do care about is that the leader of my country obey the fucking law....it isn't rocket science bud

Sounds simple enough to me then. All we gotta do is have congress pass the "no terrorist left alive" law. All terrorists are to be head shot on site. This way we won't run the risk of any of them being waterboarded, since waterboarding headless camelfukkers is kinda boring and even less likely to get useful intel out of them than doing it to still headed breathing camelfukkers.

Dammit, felatadik, I think you should be appointed head of homeland security. Couldn't be any worse than that bitch running it now.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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smackaholic wrote: Sounds simple enough to me then. All we gotta do is have congress pass the "no terrorist left alive" law. All terrorists are to be head shot on site. This way we won't run the risk of any of them being waterboarded, since waterboarding headless camelfukkers is kinda boring and even less likely to get useful intel out of them than doing it to still headed breathing camelfukkers.
so what you seem to be saying here is that you're good with the President breaking the law? okey dokey bud

Did you know that when Clinton left office, the Bush White House spent 9 months investigating whether or not the Clinton's and their aides trashed the White House (which of course, they didn't)
"We need to look at to make sure exactly what happened is known to the public and to deter any future president from doing like behavior, if it was wrong, In that regard, if we can do it in a bipartisan fashion, I think that's what we should do. Every American benefits when you can control abuse of power. If this was an abuse of power, then we need to know about it."
Rep. Lindsey Graham
"We should at least take a look at what happened and ask ourselves, should we take some action to try to prevent abuses that do occur?"
Trent Lott (R-Miss.)
"Congress has an obligation to find out if this was appropriate, my panel will obtain 'subpoenas if necessary"
Dan Burton (R-IN)
"It needs to be investigated, I think it is worthy of investigation. The facts cry out for an answer....Until we get the answers to this question, that whole process is put in some jeopardy of being misunderstood by the public."
Rudy Giuliani
"While the president alone possesses the power to pardon, it's important to remember that he is not personally exempt from federal laws that prohibit the corrupt actions of all government officials."
Sen. Mitch McConnell
All of these statements were uttered by Republicans and directed at Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich

suddenly their righteous indignation over a boneheaded pardon by Clinton has disappeared when it comes to investigating potential violations of the law by the Bush Administration....

why do you suppose that is?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote: All of these statements were uttered by Republicans and directed at Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich

suddenly their righteous indignation over a boneheaded pardon by Clinton has disappeared when it comes to investigating potential violations of the law by the Bush Administration....

why do you suppose that is?
it got

Boneheaded.

Interesting choice of words. you imply that he accidentally pardoned the wrong dude. Rich's pardon was a travesty and deserved every bit of scrutiny it got. And not because it was "boneheaded".

Comparing a pardon of a politically connected criminal with witch hunts of those tasked with defending the nation is way beyond boneheaded. It is treasonous.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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smackaholic wrote:

Boneheaded.

Interesting choice of words. you imply that he accidentally pardoned the wrong dude. Rich's pardon was a travesty and deserved every bit of scrutiny it got. And not because it was "boneheaded".
it was stupid of him to do it and it was investigated....interesting that "Scooter" Libby, wasn't of the opinion that Rich had violated any tax laws and it was eventually ruled that Clinton had not violated any laws in granting the pardon....so what's the problem here
Comparing a pardon of a politically connected criminal with witch hunts of those tasked with defending the nation is way beyond boneheaded. It is treasonous.
oh, so now it's a "witch hunt" instead of an investigation of potential violations of the law....interesting turn of a phrase-damn dude, could you be a bigger fucking hypocrite?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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So, the chumps in the chimp white house couldn't, or wouldn't nail bubba on the rich debacle. The whole pardon still smelled really bad.

And yes, it is a fukking political witch hunt. We are talking about publicly grilling people who put their ass on the line and may or may not do some really fukked up things while conducting the bidness uncle sam asks them to do. So, you are goddamn right I am willing to look the other way and say move along folks, nothing to see here.

If we tell the men we ask to do our dirty work, that they will be prosecuted if they don't behave like boyscouts, those men will either say fukk you or do it half ass. They have a thankless dirty fukking job to do. And doing that job might mean they get a little dirty themselves.

How the fukk can you be too stupid to understand this?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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What? I'm being charged with a crime?

Reminds me of a great war movie, "The Beast," done by HBO in the late 80s.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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smackaholic wrote: And yes, it is a fukking political witch hunt.
It's against the law....

How the fukk can you be too stupid to understand this?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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88 wrote:

Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I'm entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
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Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
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rack the hell out of whoever wrote those lines for jack nickolson. i was thinking of this speech as I wrote my last post in this thread.

it might have just been a movie, but, every last fukking word of it is dead on.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

Post by Felix »

smackaholic wrote: it might have just been a movie, but, every last fukking word of it is dead on.
interesting that Jessup was placed under arrest immediately following that speech
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:
smackaholic wrote: it might have just been a movie, but, every last fukking word of it is dead on.
interesting that Jessup was placed under arrest immediately following that speech
Yea, it kind of made the movie a bit more "feel good." All you did was weaken a country son. Barack is a just a kid who doesn't belong on the big boy playground.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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mvscal wrote:
Good question. Which CIA "officials" are you talking about? I have oh, I'd say about 5,000 years of recorded history substantiating my opinion. And you have?
Bob Baer for one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad-VQJ8qvgg

a guy that has spent about 20 years in and out of prisons watching people undergoing these types of interrogations, and someone that has been tortured (by Iranians) and who says that it simply doesn't work....

hmmm, who to believe, a guy that's seen various forms of "enhanced interrogations" and who's undergone torture himself, or a loudmouth on the internet
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix, that Bob Baer clip was purely a fluff piece. He attempts to differentiate between "info" and "high value" info, as if no useful info has ever been gleaned from torture.

Also, c'mon, the guy's appearing on Maher's show, as an ex-CIA operative? You find that guy's opinion to be the last word on the subject??

I'd be a lot more inclined to listen to someone who's actually doing the work; someone who's not appearing on a tv comedy show to pump his agenda.

Moreover, that clip doesn't even begin to address mvscal's main point: Torture has always been used, and it's always been used for the same reason; it works.

If there's any issue with the U.S. using it, that clip of yours painted a pretty compelling argument: We aren't using it enough, or strongly enough. Even our torture is too P.C. We go out of our way to not leave a mark. We appease the hand wringers, even in our torture!

The idea that all info given under torture will be useless is just stupid. Info can and will be verified. Sure, some of it will be useless, but some of it will be highly useful. As soon as you find out something you wouldn't have otherwise known, it was useful. You can't tell me that never happens.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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88&smackaholic wrote:Jessep
Do you idiots even know what that scene/movie is about? It is about a wacko who thinks he is an American because he code reds people when he is actually an anti-American fuckhole who gets arrested (and tried one would hope) because he doesn't realize that America has rules that we enforce.

God you two idiots take the cake.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Van wrote:Felix, that Bob Baer clip was purely a fluff piece. He attempts to differentiate between "info" and "high value" info, as if no useful info has ever been gleaned from torture.

Also, c'mon, the guy's appearing on Maher's show, as an ex-CIA operative? You find that guy's opinion to be the last word on the subject??
if it makes you feel better, here's another clip of him saying essentially the same thing on Hardball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep6hvIi-LDw

mvscal wrote:
So why are we doing it? Just for kicks? Cause we're EEEEEEEVILLLLLLLL?
well, it's been asserted that they were trying to extract an AQ-Iraq connection from both Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah...given the known lengths the Bush White House has gone to try and make that connection, it seems plausible
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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poptart wrote:One thing we also know, Felix, is that our enemy beheads and mutilates people it captures, and is prolly laughing in a puddle of piss that handwringers and pantloads in the U.S. raise Holy Hell about ... THE HOME TEAM ... using the OOOOOH so dreaded waterboarding.
RACK
and gaping breeze flapping vags like felix are really concerned for these un-uniformed terrorists that hide behind women and children

I say fill em with sodium pentathol, get a false Imam to comfort talk him, extract any usable info and then use hiim as live attack dog training material
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:well, it's been asserted that they were trying to extract an AQ-Iraq connection from both Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah...given the known lengths the Bush White House has gone to try and make that connection, it seems plausible
There was a connection between Iraq and Islamic terrorists already. No need to "try" to make any connection. Now they might have been trying to ascertain the exact level, depth, and maturity of those relationships. But there was no need to desparately try to "prove" anything.

They might have been trying to FIND something. Something that moved prior to the invasion. Something that might be in the Bekka Valley.

Bush, his administration, and operators were trying to do the job the Constitution asked of them. That's it, plain and simple. They swore an oath to defend the Constitution.

I love these fuckers, they give Saddam Hussein and terrorists whose stated claims and objectives about their hatred for "our way of life" the benefit of the doubt BEFORE they give an American the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Tom In VA wrote: There was a connection between Iraq and Islamic terrorists already. No need to "try" to make any connection.
Well I'm sure you can provide that link for me then

Torture is illegal. This is a clear matter of law.

In 1988, Ronald Reagan signed the U.N. Convention Against Torture where we committed ourselves to prosecuting people who torture. It's the law.

I wish you people would stop implying that I feel sorry for these terrorists, but of course, that's the typical conservative mantra. Bush used it very effectively that if you didn't support the war, you were against the soldiers and you hated America. Stop it you fucking pea brains..I hate these terrorists. They killed 3,000 of my fellow Americans in the World Trade Center attacks, and have killed 4,000 of our soldiers since then. I hate these fucks with a passion, and hope every one of them is killed. It has nothing to do with sympathy for them, and every thing to do with abiding by the fucking law.

GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Why are you okay (legally) with killing them, but not torturing them? I'm pretty sure killing is considered even spicier than torture.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Van wrote:Why are you okay (legally) with killing them, but not torturing them? I'm pretty sure killing is considered even spicier than torture.
jeezus, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW dimbulb
how many times do I have to say it?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:
Van wrote:Why are you okay (legally) with killing them, but not torturing them? I'm pretty sure killing is considered even spicier than torture.
jeezus, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW dimbulb
how many times do I have to say it?
So is killing them, depending on where and how they're killed, so why do you have no problem with that?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote: I wish you people would stop implying that I feel sorry for these terrorists, but of course, that's the typical conservative mantra. Bush used it very effectively that if you didn't support the war, you were against the soldiers and you hated America. Stop it you fucking pea brains..I hate these terrorists. They killed 3,000 of my fellow Americans in the World Trade Center attacks, and have killed 4,000 of our soldiers since then. I hate these fucks with a passion, and hope every one of them is killed. It has nothing to do with sympathy for them, and every thing to do with abiding by the fucking law.

GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS.
Wrong. YOU believe the Bush lied. You have given Saddam Hussein the benefit of the doubt as opposed to Bush. Saddam Hussein assured Hamas suicide bombers that he would pay their widows and children money. This encouraged men to volunteer to blow up sites in Israel. This contributed to the overall instability in the Middle East, a region, where we unfortunately have vital strategic interests. Further, he shucked and jived, throughout ... ignoring the UN Resolutions to the point of kicking the UN out in 1998. Clinton, Kerry, Pelosi, Daschle - Democrats - set forth official policy of Regime Change in Iraq due to his contribution to Islamic Terrorists and potential of developing WMD's. Bush executed that policy. You deride Bush, yet fail to mention, IT WAS POLICY SINCE 1998-1999.

Now based on observable facts culled from your takes juxtaposed against fully researched knowledge of facts and events since the Gulf War, what conclusion would you like me to draw ?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Tom In VA wrote: You have given Saddam Hussein the benefit of the doubt as opposed to Bush. Saddam Hussein assured Hamas suicide bombers that he would pay their widows and children money.
Alternately, when a Hamas bomber is killed - all the property of his direct relatives is bulldozed and their assets seized. It's a form of collective punishment on innocents, fearful coercion.

Strikes me as more of a habitat for humanity project on Saddam's behalf.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Well I quite like them. I know they haven't sufficently industrialised to your standards, or engaged in the capitalist system to your degree - but they never give up. You fuck with them and they keep going and give it straight back. Good folk.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Dr_Phibes wrote:Well I quite like them. I know they haven't sufficently industrialised to your standards, or engaged in the capitalist system to your degree - but they never give up. You fuck with them and they keep going and give it straight back. Good folk. Uneducated, self-loathing fanatics.
Fixed.
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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ah, Fox News that reliable "fair and balanced" network has once again stepped in a big pile of shit

remember that story they ran about how the waterboarding of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed thwarted a planned attack on LA?

well, it turns out that the plot the Bushies were able to extract from Mohammed was foiled before they ever had Mohammed in custody....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200904220032

:lol: :lol:

seriously, could those numbnuts be bigger fucking buffoons if they tried?
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote: seriously, could those numbnuts be bigger fucking buffoons if they tried?
Probably. They could certainly join the circle jerk of other media outlets fellating Mr. President. Would you prefer that ?

A lot of Mr. President's supporters aren't very "scientific" Felix, remember he used churches to further his climb to the Mount, upon which He delivers His seme sermon ..... swallow it ..... swallow it all ... boy.

Image
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Felix wrote:
Van wrote:Why are you okay (legally) with killing them, but not torturing them? I'm pretty sure killing is considered even spicier than torture.
jeezus, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW dimbulb
how many times do I have to say it?
So you never break the law??
Semen drunk delusional hypocrit, go fuck yourself with an angered wolverine
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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Tom In VA wrote:
Probably. They could certainly join the circle jerk of other media outlets fellating Mr. President. Would you prefer that ?
Fox News stands as the lone sentinel for all that's right and just in this world.....and as long as Dick Morris can continue to throw baseless haymakers that catch nothing but air, they'll remain harmless enough.....honestly, I watch it become it's become so fucking comical with Sean "Shecky" Hannity leading the way, and Billo the Clown acting as the straight-dumb dude....the only person funnier is Rush Limbaugh


Image[/quote]

hey I remember that pic, it was from world net daily-wasn't the world net daily the "paper" that reported Obama was using the swine flu pandemic to condition people to be controlled by the government....you men that worldnetdaily :lol:

I'm telling you, this shit is comedic genius
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Re: "Torture" Memos

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You're a very lazy, stupid, "scientist" Felix. That's a painting in New York City.

No fucking integrity at all from you. Here I thought things would "change".
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Re: "Torture" Memos

Post by Terry in Crapchester »

Felix wrote:seriously, could those numbnuts be bigger fucking buffoons if they tried?


Any other questions?
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