"Torture" Memos

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:06 pm

Main Entry: tor·ture
Pronunciation: trchr, -()ch(r
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: French, from Late Latin tortura act of twisting, torture, from Latin tortus (past participle of torqure to twist, wind, torture) + -ura -ure; akin to Old High German drhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle, Sanskrit tarku

1: The conference call that I'm on right now.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:29 pm

Waterboarding is torture? No, it's a day at Oceans of Fun water park, minus the scantily clad hotties, compared to their normal shit stained, rat infested, miserable muslim existance...

Meanwhile, they get 3 squares a day, free medical and dental care, before providing them a free plane ticket home, all fattened up and ready to roll again against the evil that is the Great Satan.

We haven't tortured enough. Get all the info out of them you can, then expeditiously send them off to meet Allah with a slab of bacon wired to their clenched teethed... for the cost of one bullet.

Use the plane ticket to deliver a body bag back to whatever flea infested sand dune they came from. Hopefully, we can get a "multi-ticket" discount.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:50 pm

Enhanced interrogation:

Pro's - Gleaned significant data that allegedly prevented further attacks on American soil; Los Angeles & New York.

Pro's - Caused reasonable discomfort to those directly or indirectly involved in those attacks.

Con - Belgium & Holland might think less of America....

Tough choice.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:35 pm

Waterboard AIPAC.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:19 am

War Wagon wrote:Waterboarding is torture? No

really?

watch this video about Christopher Hitchens, who's a staunch supporter of the Iraq war when he volunteered to be waterboarded on a dare by the editor of Vanity Fair....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

then read his article about it

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... hens200808

fuck, we sentenced Japanese soldiers that waterboarded Americans during WW2 to 15 years hard labor...this isn't what this country stands for...really, is this the kind of fucking "leadership" you want

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:49 am

Felix wrote:this isn't what this country stands for...

huh?

This country "stands" for not taking any shit off anybody. Always has been, always will be. If you fuck with us, you've fucked with the wrong people. If and when that ever changes, we'll be French or Canadian.

btw... I'll not watch another of your youlube links or read another article you post... I'd sooner watch Olbermann or poke my eyes out with sharp sticks, same difference.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:50 am

As long as this lynch mob is going after EVERYONE, regardless of political party. Have at it. It's all part of the world liking us again, they'll laugh their ass off, America's "sins" by comparison - historically - and we're making a fuss.

Quick, somebody get me a lyre.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:14 am

Is it too outrageous that cops be allowed to waterboard suspects?
I mean, with a warrant of course.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:21 am

Martyred wrote:Is it too outrageous that cops be allowed to waterboard suspects?

Think of the epic rock throwing war stories you might tell to Cinders grandchildren.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:32 am

mvscal wrote:
Really? Are you sure about that? Why don't you go ahead and link us up to a case where a Jap who did nothing except waterboard prisoners was sentenced to 15 years hard labor.

yeah, pretty sure....if you think otherwise, maybe you should take it up with Judge Wallach

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/22/Colum ... nese.shtml

Interestingly, we weren't nearly as blithe about waterboarding when it happened to our own guys during World War II. Then, we considered it a war crime and a form of torture.

In "Drop by Drop: Forgetting the History of Water Torture in U.S. Courts," Judge Evan Wallach of the U.S. Court of International Trade has documented the trials in which the United States used evidence of water-boarding as a basis for prosecutions. The article, still in draft form, will be published soon by the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law.

Easy there, princess. Of course the answer to your question is yes. I do want the kind of fucking leadership that values the lives and interests of Americans above those of goat raping primitives. In fact, I insist upon that kind of leadership.

look, everybody knows what fuckin badass you are and all, and I'm almost certain that if you were subjected to it, you'd no doubt come out laughing and dare them to do it again....that's what fuckin badasses like you do...

but I never asked any of those assholes to torture anybody on my behalf, especially not 183 fucking times....do you think he was going to come up with something he didn't the first 182 times they did it? Where do we draw the line? Hey, you think maybe we should start lopping heads off and putting out videos of it?

If we stoop to these levels, what separates us from the barbarians we so roundly condemn.....

edit for mvscal

I ran across this video and thought you'd probably want to take some appropriate action.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypwrq4mbiQw

drop him an email and maybe call him a coward, a chickenshit cocksucker or something else

remember, THE END ALWAYS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:23 am

Well, felix, do you have any answers ?

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:31 am

an answer to what, the question hasn't even been formulated.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:36 am

Dr_Phibes wrote:an answer to what, the question hasn't even been formulated.

How do you deal with killers ? When it's your responsibility. When you can't hide behind anything ?

How would Uncle Jong-II handle it Phibes ? Plate after plate of bul gol gi and nice soft music ?

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:43 am

What goes on behind closed doors, goes on. What I do know, is that you don't institutionalise it - it sets a very dangerous precedent.

And torture, or debate on what is torture, is not included in constitution of the DPRK. Feel free to set precedent though.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:57 am

Well according to some, we've been collecting "intelligence" culled through torture for the better half of the 20th century - at least.

To me the crime is the same, whether we have operatives "listening" while some Sandinista soldier is tortured by his own countrymen, while a South Korean tortures a North Korean, etc. 9-11 apparently woke some of our leadership up, that if we want to be a player in the world for resources, we're going to have to pony up and do some of our own dirty work. So they did.

I think there's more integrity in doing your own dirty work anyway as opposed to profit from others.

The other alternative, is that we won't be such a major player for the world's resources. We can be socialized, put to sleep, and rendered content by government welfare and fast food. Oh but wait, a lot of these "welfare queens" are fat slobs and now obesity is contributing to "global warming". Who knows.

I'm thinking Obama is about to get down to some serious internal house cleaning. He's still just lining up the pieces. And I'm not talking only about his lynching of political rivals.

We just might be due. The herd might need thinning. The world goes through these cycles from time to time.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:22 pm

I actually believe with phibes, sort of. The difference is I'm not gonna call our side out for doing a tenths of what his boys do.

The gubmint policy should be "Torture? Do we torture? Sorry, I can not discuss this with you, but, how's this? Fuck with us and find out.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:40 pm

Tom In VA wrote:Well, felix, do you have any answers ?

I've seen some interviews with interrogation specialists that say torture tactics are not needed, that the information can often times be gotten with other methods....what those methods are I don't know, but they're the experts not me

88 wrote: Don't ever fall into the trap of relying on what a reporter says something says, go to the source material itself. Here is a draft of Judge Wallach's article. It has been posted on the interwebs for years.

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/wal ... 061016.pdf

When you read it, you will note that the two cases highlighted by the reporter are less clear in the Judge's article. Yes, he cites them as evidence that the use of water in interrogation techniques resulted in criminal penalties, but his case references are very sketchy, at best. In the Japanese case, he references snippets of testimony and vague references in the indictments. The actual means by which the "torture" was carried out is not explained in detail. Furthermore, there are other acts involved, such as snuffing out cigarettes on bare skin etc. There is no explicit finding on the point he's trying to support.

The Court of Appeals decision in the US case arising from the San Jacinto police interrogation says almost nothing about water "torture". It related to whether the defendants' cases should have been severed or not. I will try to locate the district court papers, to the extent there are any published. Again, it appears that he is relying on relatively scant and indirect information to support his point.

Bottom line: It ain't gospel, dog.

but there is no question that during WW2 waterboarding was against the law....sure I know we're living in different times now, but the law is the law, and once we've defined something as torture and declared it not only unacceptable but against the law, I don't see how we can say now that it's not

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:58 pm

One thing we also know, Felix, is that our enemy beheads and mutilates people it captures, and is prolly laughing in a puddle of piss that handwringers and pantloads in the U.S. raise Holy Hell about ... THE HOME TEAM ... using the OOOOOH so dreaded waterboarding.

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:17 pm

Felix wrote:I've seen some interviews with interrogation specialists that say torture tactics are not needed, that the information can often times be gotten with other methods....what those methods are I don't know, but they're the experts not me

I'd go one step farther than that. It's pretty well accepted that information obtained via torture tactics is inherently less reliable than is information obtained via other interrogation tactics. Seems that the person being tortured will say anything he thinks his torturers want to hear, regardless of the truth, to make the torture stop.

Hell, the criminal justice system recognizes that fact. That's one of the reasons why the police aren't allowed, for example, to place the barrel of a gun inside a suspect's mouth to extract a confession.

poptart wrote:One thing we also know, Felix, is that our enemy beheads and mutilates people it captures, and is prolly laughing in a puddle of piss that handwringers and pantloads in the U.S. raise Holy Hell about ... THE HOME TEAM ... using the OOOOOH so dreaded waterboarding.

So you're saying that two wrongs make a right?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:41 pm

Terry wrote:So you're saying that two wrongs make a right?

I am saying that the Taliban's wrongs and our "wrongs" are not comparable.

Except to ridiculous handwringers and pantloads.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:00 pm

poptart wrote:One thing we also know, Felix, is that our enemy beheads and mutilates people it captures, and is prolly laughing in a puddle of piss that handwringers and pantloads in the U.S. raise Holy Hell about ... THE HOME TEAM ... using the OOOOOH so dreaded waterboarding.

so, what you're saying here is that we should become them?

It's got nothing to do with handwringing and everything to do with standing for the principles our country prides itself on and those things that set us apart from every other country in the world...those are the things that make us special, and why we've always been looked at as the shining example of what a democracy should be...Cheyney says the techniques worked (although like Hillary, I don't repose much trust in what he says), but the fact is that we don't know whether alternative interrogation methods would have worked, because they weren't employed

personally I'm in agreement that this has caused our country more harm than we can imagine at this point....but I'm not particularly eager for criminal investigation to be undertaken and you certainly can't prosecute those that were acting under the orders of their superiors....a full blown investigation and airing of it would simply do more damage

88 wrote: I don't know what you're referring to. I personally haven't seen anything yet that says the waterboarding techniques used by the CIA in 2002-2006 were the same as the techniques used in WWII, or that the waterboarding techniques used during WWII violated any US laws. So I'd say there are some questions that need to be answered before you can say there are no questions.

oh come on, waterboarding is waterboarding....you're not going to try and pull that "well, we may have been doing it in a more humane way" horseshit are you?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/ ... 4687.shtml

Headline reads:

McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:18 pm

Felix wrote:so, what you're saying here is that we should become them?

I don't advocate beheadings or mutilation.

Felix wrote:those are the things that make us special

I picture you wearing your best Dan Vogel Rogers sweater as you typed that.

Look, Felix, I think a very small percentage of Americans are happy to know that we waterboarded some very bad people.

Oh ... mvscal just posted. haha

The fact that we waterboarded some scum doesn't make ME happy.

My take, however, is that when you put everything into context, a person has to be half looney to obsess over our waterboarding of these scum.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:29 pm

Don't be a dumbass, Sam.

Felix says to round 'em up and tell 'em we're special.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:08 pm

mvscal wrote:
What steaming pile of handwringing, navel gazing horseshit. The "principles this country was founded on" are do whatever it takes to win.

Crack a book someday, you whimpering little faggot.

THE END ALWAYS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

eh bud....

are you saying that John McCain is wrong about hanging japenese for the same thing we're doing....send him an email and straighten his ass out PDQ

sorry to inform you but ours is a nation of humanitarians, not fucking barbarians....look, if you want to live in a country where they do whatever they want to prisoners, there's lots of countries you could choose to live...

pick one and move there...

I'm sure there are lots of places looking for fuckin badasses like you to work for them

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:48 pm

poptart wrote:Don't be a dumbass, Sam.

Felix says to round 'em up and tell 'em we're special.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:10 pm

88 wrote:I read them. All of them.
As used in this chapter—
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control
The term “severe mental pain or suffering” means:

the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of ... procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses...
It is definitely a mind fuck.

Which makes it torture. You DID goto Law School right?

I think reasonable people can disagree whether waterboarding is considered to be "torture" within the definition provided.

Then you are an idiot.

The person's airway is blocked and water is used to give the impression of drowning.

No asswipe it IS drowning that gives the impression of death.

I cannot imagine prosecuting someone under this statute for authoring a memorandum that concluded that waterboarding did not violate 18 U.S.C. 2340.

'Casue you've never seen the inside of a courtroom no doubt.

"The memos include discussions of scientific studies that indicate that the mental affect is extremely acute (i.e., the sense of drowning), but that the effect dissipates very quickly once air is permitted to return to the lungs and produces no lasting mental trauma."
Link?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:18 pm

mvscal wrote:

Usually, yes.

an incredibly inane answer, even by your standards

We didn't hang Japanese soldiers for doing the same thing we're doing.

then goddammit, send McCain an email and tell him he's full of shit

When did this happen? I'm sure it would come as a great surprise to the millions of German and Japanese civilians who were killed in indiscriminate air raids during WW2 or the Japanese-American citizens who were rounded up and placed in "humanitarian camps."

Yes, who can forget Sherman's Humanitarian Relief Mission to the Sea during the Civil War.

Or all the humanitarian reservations we set up for our Indian friends on only the best, most valuable plots of land available.

Or how we thoughtfully relieved Mexico of the administrative burden of the Southwest. Wasn't that nice of us? They didn't even have to ask.

so why is that we're the largest humanitarian nation in the world? We don't do it to get people to like us, we do it because it's the right fucking thing to do....just like not torturing people is the right fucking thing to do....I don't know what's warped your sense of right and wrong peabrain, but it's against our laws and it's against international laws to torture people... click, buzz, end of story

could we have obtained the same information we got using waterboarding? We'll never know. But unless you've got some special knowledge of interrogation techniques (which I know you don't), I've seen interviews with interrogators that say this shit IS NOT NECESSARY....it seems that one of the reasons the one guy was waterboarded 83 times was because they were trying to draw a connection between Iraq and Al Queda.....that is seriously fucked up, and if you can't see why, then you're no better than the "bad" guys

I'm not really sure where you got your pathetically warped view of history and don't really care, but humanitarians don't win wars, you stupid fuck. Wars are won by physically and mentally tough men doing horrible things to the opposition.

I'm pathetically warped? That's preety funny.

Seriously, you should hire yourself out as a mercenary...I think you'd probably be pretty good at it....If you need a reference, let me know

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:21 pm

and how many people were actually waterboarded?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:21 pm

Sirfindafold wrote:and how many people were actually waterboarded?

As least one.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:58 pm

mvscal wrote: War doesn't have shit to do with "who can be the better guy." It's about who lives and who dies....

and who surrenders first, and who then writes the history books.

Can you imagine what what would be taught in German and Japanese classrooms had WWII gone the other way?

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:14 pm

mvscal wrote:
Felix wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Really? Are you sure about that? Why don't you go ahead and link us up to a case where a Jap who did nothing except waterboard prisoners was sentenced to 15 years hard labor.
yeah, pretty sure....
Try again, you handwringing pussy. You make me fucking sick.

I never asked any of those assholes to torture anybody on my behalf,
You weren't asked, pussy.

Why not let Feelsdix put his ass wherehis mouth is? Let him go to Afghanistan and tell the Talibans how horrid he thinks their fellow sheepfuckers were treated, and that he didn't ask anybody to do that on his behalf. I'm sure they'll laugh like motherfuckers right up until they cut his head off and play polo with it.

especially not 183 fucking times....do you think he was going to come up with something he didn't the first 182 times they did it?
Obviously he did because he wasn't waterboarded 184 times.

Maybe they just ran out of water.

Where do we draw the line? Hey, you think maybe we should start lopping heads off and putting out videos of it?
I agree. We should start publicly executing this scum and making videos of it available for those who couldn't make the live broadcast.

Take a powder, you sniveling sack of shit.

I heard an interesting possibility on the radio the other day: Employ the precedent of the Salem Witch Trials. Waterboard them, and if they drown, they're not a terrorist

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:56 pm

88 wrote:If it is so clear that waterboarding constitutes "torture" and is an international war crime, then why is Obama saying that the CIA agents who did it should not face prosecution?
Nuremberg Principle IV provides that "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." They should be just as culpable as the lawyers who authored the opinions that found the procedures to be lawful.

because Bush's attorney's wrote opinions that these "enhanced interrogation" methods did not constitute torture....therefore, they shouldn't be prosecuted because their superiors told them they were acting within legal constraints.....

I think Obama is playing politics in a very dangerous way. He is trying to score points with the hard left, who want nothing short of W's head on a pike, while not pissing off the middle.

can't speak for anybody else that leans toward the liberal side, but I don't think anybody should be prosecuted....I don't think there should be a special investigation...I don't want Bush's head on a pike, I just want him and his minions to go away....they've done enough damage, we don't need them doing anymore

International tribunals worldwide will be filing war crimes against W, Cheney, a sitting judge on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals etc. in short order.

Well, if they're certain that these enhanced interrogation methods didn't constitute torture, they've got nothing to worry about. I might be wrong, but I think Spain was already considering pursuing charges against them, but it will never go anywhere....

He is going to get his ass handed to him before his term expires.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. If you mean somebody trying to get rid of him....I'm sure the hard right has drummed up more than enough sentiment in the far right wingnut sect for somebody to eventually try....who could ever forget the cries of "kill him" during the Sarah Palin rallies....oh yeah, there is no doubt in my mind that somebody's going to try it...

Cuda wrote:
Why not let Feelsdix put his ass where his mouth is? Let him go to Afghanistan and tell the Talibans how horrid he thinks their fellow sheepfuckers were treated, and that he didn't ask anybody to do that on his behalf. I'm sure they'll laugh like motherfuckers right up until they cut his head off and play polo with it.

No, I think the US soldiers should shoot those assholes on sight. My position has nothing to do with me feeling any sort of pity for the douchebag thugs that killed 3,000+ of my fellow countrymen on September 11, and have killed 4,300+ of our servicemen since the wars began...it has to do with my country's leaders abiding by the law....

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:05 pm

88 wrote:
Obviously. It appears that you don't understand much of the world around you.

why the insults bud....if you'd been a little more specific than "he's gonna get his ass handed to him" I would have known what you were driving at.

The Press has given him a free pass for a few months, but eventually they are going to get sick of his schtick and ram it home.

that is fucking laughable....obviously, you don't watch Fox News

Clinton got buried in the same way. He was Mr. Everything for a while, but once he started dicking over the Press with limited information and treating them like a 2nd tier media wing, they went at him. All of them.

When exactly did this "burying" occur? For the vast majority of his presidency, most of the press loved him....the Republicans went after him with a vengeance and if you go after somebody long and hard enough, eventually you'll hit paydirt.....he left office with a 66% approval rating...I'd hardly call that being buried

The same thing will happen to Obama. He's got it easy right now, but eventually he's going to get cornered on something and shit all over himself. He's in over his head. And it will be clearly demonstrated to everyone before his first term comes to a close.

you might be right that he'll eventually trip up....I hope not, because this country needs a great leader right now....insofar as him being over his head, I don't think so...he's surrounded himself with some pretty smart people, and compared to Bush, he's an intellectual giant

Dr_Phibes · Post by **Dr_Phibes** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:32 am

I'd simply question the practicality of it all.

Most of the people picked up were quite literally goat herders and riflemen. What on earth are they going to tell you? A great deal of them were picked up in exchange for informant bounty.

Reading what accounts I have of innocents released, the line of questioning was very broad and general, no specifics. 'are you a terrorist'? 'do you like terrorism'? That seems absolutely pointless.
I'd also guess that the man waterboarded 183 times was being asked a question he simply didn't have the knowledge to provide.

The administration claimed that they've foiled plots, but I doubt it. Why no evidence is provided is bizarre - if I were in the government position, some disclosure would be advantageous. The plot is null and void - therefore no security interests are involved.. you can paint your opponent as evil and re-inforce the soundness of your methods.
I'll wager they're just out and out lying on that one.

In summary:

torture can be a good thing, just don't leave it up to kindergarten twats living in a paranoid, fantasy world. They should be shot for simply being stupid enough to have their signature on the memos.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:06 am

88 wrote:Don't get me wrong. Obama stands a good chance of getting a second term. There is no viable alternative yet.

There doesn't need to be.

When the realization sinks in to the American sheeple that this m0ron and the m0ronic democratically controlled Washington have GUTTED the country, any alternative will start to look good.

Someone will emerge who the sheeple will again want to rally around.

Terry in Crapchester · Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:26 am

mvscal wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:I'd go one step farther than that. It's pretty well accepted that information obtained via torture tactics is inherently less reliable than is information obtained via other interrogation tactics. Seems that the person being tortured will say anything he thinks his torturers want to hear, regardless of the truth, to make the torture stop.
Of course, you will. You're a fucking moron. You think an interrogator can't tell the difference between somebody babbling and saying anything he thinks we want to hear and somebody with real beans to spill? Try again, fuckwit. Torture has been used throughout human history because it works.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation ... id=1322866

Again, the age-old question. Whom to believe: CIA intelligence officers, or a loudmouth know-it-all on the interwebs?

Btw,

The detainees were also forced to listen to rap artist Eminem's "Slim Shady" album.

I think we can all agree that that is torture.

mvscal wrote:
That's one of the reasons why the police aren't allowed, for example, to place the barrel of a gun inside a suspect's mouth to extract a confession.
No, it isn't.

Oh, really?

Felix wrote:Seriously, you should hire yourself out as a mercenary...I think you'd probably be pretty good at it....If you need a reference, let me know

Our resident 101st Fighting Keyboarder plays interwebs badass as long as he can hide behind his keyboard. Waterboard him in real life, though, and my guess is he'd be crying like a pussy. In less time than it took Christopher Hitchens to do so.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:57 am

Felix wrote: No, I think the US soldiers should shoot those assholes on sight. My position has nothing to do with me feeling any sort of pity for the douchebag thugs that killed 3,000+ of my fellow countrymen on September 11, and have killed 4,300+ of our servicemen since the wars began...it has to do with my country's leaders abiding by the law....

Let's see if I got this right.

You're OK with shooting them in the head on sight.

You're not OK with capturing them and throwing them in the dunking tank for a little bit.

Interesting.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:07 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote: Our resident 101st Fighting Keyboarder plays interwebs badass as long as he can hide behind his keyboard. Waterboard him in real life, though, and my guess is he'd be crying like a pussy. In less time than it took Christopher Hitchens to do so.

As would you. As would I. And your point is? That torture ain't much fun?

Thanks, marcus.

It really is a damn good thing that we didn't have such hand wringing pussies running the joint in 1943. Hate to think how many 8th airforce members would have had to stand trial at nuremburg.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:59 pm

mvscal wrote:Torture has been used throughout human history because it works.

There are proponents on both sides with legitimate arguments, even within our own military and intelligence community, obviously.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090421/ap_ ... rture_work

Intelligence from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, two detainees who were waterboarded, led to the discovery of a terrorist cell, the capture of other suspected terrorists and an understanding of the terrorist network, the documents say.

"Nobody wants to be the guy who could have done something and then didn't do it."

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:15 pm

smackaholic wrote:

Let's see if I got this right.

You're OK with shooting them in the head on sight.

You're not OK with capturing them and throwing them in the dunking tank for a little bit.

Interesting.

If you'd read my earlier response, you'd have noted that I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to terrorist thugs-killing every last one of them would be fine by me......

what I do care about is that the leader of my country obey the fucking law....it isn't rocket science bud