what is your favorite bw3 wing sauce?

[SunCoastSooner]

1. The new Habenero Melon stuff
2. Spicy Garlic
3. Terryaki

[Dinsdale]

It's you fools' lucky day. I typed an incredibly lengthy response to the fisheries statements, got distracted, logged out, and lost it.


But the gist was that neither Goobs nor mvscal has any fucking idea what they're talking about.

Weather patterns have a massive æffect on salmon runs.

And my personal fishing won't be æffected in any way by any ocean restrictions, since I believe ocean fishing is an instrument of Darwin.

I should be hitting up the spring chinook (best fish known to mankind, the Willamette River springer) in te next couplefew weeks, matter of fact.


Here's a fairly popular salmon fishing spot --

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

And as long as they continue to sell kick ass produce at reasonable prices in a great atmosphere, they can count on my regular business. That's capitalism. I don't shop as an act of charity.

Gets it. All things being relatively equal in terms of price, quality, and atmosphere - sure, I'll take the indie joint. But I'm not sacrificing a lot to patronize the independent place "just for the sake of it." If they want my business they need to serve a better product than the other guy. Fortunately, many of them do so it works out.

[Goober McTuber]

It's you fools' lucky day. I typed an incredibly lengthy response to the fisheries statements, got distracted, logged out, and lost it.


But the gist was that neither Goobs nor mvscal has any fucking idea what they're talking about.

Weather patterns have a massive æffect on salmon runs.

And my personal fishing won't be æffected in any way by any ocean restrictions, since I believe ocean fishing is an instrument of Darwin.

Yeah, you were all ready to put me in my place but lost your post. Must be my lucky day. I said nothing about the weather. And I thought that they were actually considering cancelling some sport fishing as well.

[Dinsdale]

I said nothing about the weather.

By using a quote in your post, you certainly did, in a roundabout way.

And mvscal expressed doubts about the weather's influence. He was mistaken. Weather patterns and associated ocean currents have a huuuuge æffect on upwellings along the shoreline, which is a major factor in juvenile mortality.

And I thought that they were actually considering cancelling some sport fishing as well.

And my personal fishing won't be æffected in any way by any ocean restrictions, since I believe ocean fishing is an instrument of Darwin.

While it's fast become the en vogue alarmist topic and is somewhat unfamiliar the the non-Left Coast masses, this is more of the same old same old. Although I can't emember a complete shutdown of ocean fishing, it's heavily restricted every year, and the regulations aren't announced until shortly before the season. Generally, the way it works is at the ports, the have people counting harvest, and seasons are adjusted on a quota system.

Aside from the coho restrictions (and the current concern is over chinook) of the early 90's or whenever that was, I don't recall many, or any new restrictions placed upon inland fishing, with the Columbia being the only river that gets much in the way of yearly changes (and those can often change multiple times in a year). That ain't how it works. Too hard to explain in a nutshell, I guess. But as a general rule, once the fish pass the jetty jaws and come inland, they're fair game, for the most part.

Again, I very much doubt my fishing will be æffected in any way.

And this last winter's steelhead season had good numbers. So far, in the very early-going, summer steelhead numbers look good so far from what I've seen/heard. The Willamette spring chinook numbers are mediocre, the Columbia has projections of 270,000 coming to the upper river, which is a strong number (although there's probably more that that not going upriver, and into lower river tributaries. Of course, 120K is a huge year for CenCal..."one of the largest runs on the West Coast"... can't stop laughing... and the springers aren't the biggest Columbia runs. Just need to keep the sea lions from eating them all, which has been a good source of local drama.


Regardless what the media says, it's not all doom and gloom. The ocean anglers, be they commercial or sport, always take the brunt of the resrictions, because they kill threatened native stocks along with healthy stocks indiscriminately. Much easier to isolate threatened stocks once they leave the ocean. With a little less ocean pressure, it could be a very good year for real salmon fishing, rather than that barbaric form of havest employed on the ocean.


It's an art form, not just a way to put fish in the cooler... and my opinion on that will never change. Might even have to do some ultra-light fishing for nookers in late summer... haven't done that in a while. You haven't caught a chinook until you're landed a 20+ pounder on a 5.5 foot ultra light with 4 pound test... fantastic adrenealin rush. Man vs Beast. Not boat and hardware vs Beast.

[SunCoastSooner]

Damn I always thought that fishing was just an excuse to troll off on the boat and get drunk with out the bitches harrassing you for the day during the summer when there is no football or basketball to provide the excuse...

[Dinsdale]

Damn I always thought that fishing was just an excuse to troll off on the boat and get drunk with out the bitches harrassing you for the day during the summer when there is no football or basketball to provide the excuse...

Sacrilege.

While those are certainly great benefits, it's definitely not the purpose.

Matter of fact, I dislike fishing from a boat (even though I own 2, one pretty ragged at this point and hasn't seen the water in 10 years, the drift boat is ready to go, and hasnt seen water in years, even though several people have full access to it). I'll do it if neccessary, but I'll rarely be the one to bring it up. Although there's been much talk of bring the drift boat (Oregon invention-btw) back up north and ditching it at my buddy's house which is near the Clackamas, here in the metro area... outstanding spring salmon/steelhead stream. Just need to get new oars (driftboat oars are fairly spendy, and cheap ones cause much misery when they break in the rapids), and do a little rebuilding of the little trailer.


Has me thinking... might have to get that ball rolling soon. While I dislike boat fishing as a general rule, driftboating ain't so bad, provided someone else drives while I fish.

And sometimes when it's hot out, getting horribly liquored and taking a rubber raft down the Clack and occasionally casting for steelhead while scoping the myriad hotties in bikinis on the river is a good time. Hopefully thay don't try and put the kibash to alcohol on the Clack like they did last summer after a few young punks caused riots... a few bad apples spoiling the bunch. Good luck catching me drinking anyway, cop. I guess instead of beers, it will be whisky and coke in sports bottles. And a bong.

[SunCoastSooner]

I might have to inform my crew of this development Dins

I've just never really been that big on fishing to be honest. Guess it just isn't my thing; more of a hunter myself personally but it's rather sparce out here and I prefer turkey which is best done in the Oklahoma and Arkansas region.

I go out more for the boat, water, and solace. We have a strict no women policy unless it is a holiday or some crap where we can't avoid it without giving up getting laid for a month.

[Dinsdale]

I've just never really been that big on fishing to be honest. Guess it just isn't my thing; more of a hunter myself

To each their own. I have little interest in hunting. Don't get me wrong, I have no moral issue with it... just not my thang.

I dig guns, and I do get into can-hunting, though. Soda cans, tin cans, coffee cans, mexi-cans, afri-cans...

[Goober McTuber]

I said nothing about the weather.

By using a quote in your post, you certainly did, in a roundabout way.

Just driving by to tell you that you’re full of shit. I posted the article, I didn’t write it. So there’s a rule here now that in order to post an article written by somebody else you have to agree with every word of it? Ponderous.

[Dinsdale]

Uhm... did I not adress my post to both you and mvscal?

And did mvscal not (ignorantly) express doubts about weather patterns having an æffect?


mvscal: I doubt weather patterns have an æffect.

Dins: Yes, they certainly do.

Goobs: I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER PATTERNS!!!!!

Common Sense: Shut the fuck up, the big kids are talking.

[Dinsdale]

The recent shortage is due to an anomoly in the local ocean current and overfishing. Leave them alone for a year or two. They'll be fine.

OK. I was counting ocean currents in the broader catagory of "weather patters." That in mind, you're not sounding nearly so ignorant.


But still... don't step to me on salmonid biology -- it won't end well for you.

And yes, there's overfishing... by the Japs. They need to be dealt with. Since we're now in this "global economy" thing, what they're doing counts as "theft." The Japs' open-seas druitnetting policies are deplorable. And they don't seem to give a fuck what the UN or anyone else has to say about it. Might be time for a rematch.

But as far as "leave them alone for a year or two, they'll be fine"... doubtful. Basically, the Central Valley is shit spawning grounds to begin with. Chinook are just exceptionaly hearty. But history has shown that if spawning conditions are shakey at best, and other factors drop numbers, it's not a year or two fix... it might rebound a little, but any major increse in numbers is unlikely, and years and years away, and that's only if a lot of measures are taken.


Uhm... they haven't fished for chum, sockeye or pinks on the World's Greatest Salmon Stream for decades... and guess what? They're still gone.


There's sooooo many factors besides ocean conditions and fishing pressure that go into it, too numerous to list.

I doub californians are willing to do the things it akes o rebuild the runs. Take the Kalamath Basin, for example -- if they open up the dams and let out some water, they get adult fish in 3-5 years (depending on the salt of the fish), almost as simple as that (although Senator Smith I believe goes out there with a club and tries to singlehandly permanently remove all salmon from the Kalamath Basin). And the region's agriculture goes to shit because there's no water left for the crops. You think that's going to fly in the Central Valley? The agriculture of the Kalamath Basin amounts to shit in the big picture, but that's very certainly not the case in CenCal... CenCal agriculture is a big fucking deal (sin, MA).

And bear in mind, we're talking california. Several years back, someone realized there was still a native steelhead run in Malibu Creek (it was an Orehgonian, of course). Maybe people knew, but it wasn't publicized, anyway. What have they done to preserve that? The answer is "nothing." But that's the southernmost extreme of steelhead habitat (even before Whitey stepped foot into california), and habitat degridation and whatnot will always shrink the extremes of the native range. That's the way it works. Essentially, CenCal, ie. San Fran and Monterey Bays are the southernmost extreme for chinook. And their habitat has been thoroughly trashed. Now, using what we've just learned, what's going to happen to the CenCal chinook?


Yup, they're done. Sure, there will be a small handful of the most hearty that find a place to spawn, and survive the Jap gauntlet.... but those days of 6-digit returns are gone for good. So sorry you had to find out this way.

100 years ago, it's said that billions and billions of all 5 of the Pacific salmon species came through the Columbia Gorge (now there's no pinks or chum, and a very small number of sockeye). Now it's under a million. I guess dams, irrigation, chemicals, nukes, and all that stuff isn't so good for the fish.

The "they'll be fine" approach has proven beyond all doubt to be wrong. california just needs to decide what's important to them. Here, cheap electricity and shipping are more important than Columbia salmon, and Oregon and Washington make huge money from salmon. We also make money from aluminum, which is possible from cheap electricity. I seriously doubt california wants to curtail a multi-billion dollar agriculture business to save the fish runs, and that's what it's going to take.

[bbqjones]

The recent shortage is due to an anomoly in the local ocean current and overfishing. Leave them alone for a year or two. They'll be fine.

OK. I was counting ocean currents in the broader catagory of "weather patters." That in mind, you're not sounding nearly so ignorant.


But still... don't step to me on salmonid biology -- it won't end well for you.

And yes, there's overfishing... by the Japs. They need to be dealt with. Since we're now in this "global economy" thing, what they're doing counts as "theft." The Japs' open-seas druitnetting policies are deplorable. And they don't seem to give a fuck what the UN or anyone else has to say about it. Might be time for a rematch.

But as far as "leave them alone for a year or two, they'll be fine"... doubtful. Basically, the Central Valley is shit spawning grounds to begin with. Chinook are just exceptionaly hearty. But history has shown that if spawning conditions are shakey at best, and other factors drop numbers, it's not a year or two fix... it might rebound a little, but any major increse in numbers is unlikely, and years and years away, and that's only if a lot of measures are taken.


Uhm... they haven't fished for chum, sockeye or pinks on the World's Greatest Salmon Stream for decades... and guess what? They're still gone.


There's sooooo many factors besides ocean conditions and fishing pressure that go into it, too numerous to list.

I doub californians are willing to do the things it akes o rebuild the runs. Take the Kalamath Basin, for example -- if they open up the dams and let out some water, they get adult fish in 3-5 years (depending on the salt of the fish), almost as simple as that (although Senator Smith I believe goes out there with a club and tries to singlehandly permanently remove all salmon from the Kalamath Basin). And the region's agriculture goes to shit because there's no water left for the crops. You think that's going to fly in the Central Valley? The agriculture of the Kalamath Basin amounts to shit in the big picture, but that's very certainly not the case in CenCal... CenCal agriculture is a big fucking deal (sin, MA).

And bear in mind, we're talking california. Several years back, someone realized there was still a native steelhead run in Malibu Creek (it was an Orehgonian, of course). Maybe people knew, but it wasn't publicized, anyway. What have they done to preserve that? The answer is "nothing." But that's the southernmost extreme of steelhead habitat (even before Whitey stepped foot into california), and habitat degridation and whatnot will always shrink the extremes of the native range. That's the way it works. Essentially, CenCal, ie. San Fran and Monterey Bays are the southernmost extreme for chinook. And their habitat has been thoroughly trashed. Now, using what we've just learned, what's going to happen to the CenCal chinook?


Yup, they're done. Sure, there will be a small handful of the most hearty that find a place to spawn, and survive the Jap gauntlet.... but those days of 6-digit returns are gone for good. So sorry you had to find out this way.

100 years ago, it's said that billions and billions of all 5 of the Pacific salmon species came through the Columbia Gorge (now there's no pinks or chum, and a very small number of sockeye). Now it's under a million. I guess dams, irrigation, chemicals, nukes, and all that stuff isn't so good for the fish.

The "they'll be fine" approach has proven beyond all doubt to be wrong. california just needs to decide what's important to them. Here, cheap electricity and shipping are more important than Columbia salmon, and Oregon and Washington make huge money from salmon. We also make money from aluminum, which is possible from cheap electricity. I seriously doubt california wants to curtail a multi-billion dollar agriculture business to save the fish runs, and that's what it's going to take.

does any of this effect the price at the food lion? riveting read dins as per usualm.

lol@mvscal2btw

[Ken]

Went there on Friday night. They were some of the worst, dryest wings I've ever had. That place is really hit or miss.

Was up in Muskegon on Sat night and went to my first bw3. Concur. Horrible wings. Small and dry. Thank god for Oberon though. Well, that and Newcastle.

[Goober McTuber]

Uhm... did I not adress my post to both you and mvscal?

And did mvscal not (ignorantly) express doubts about weather patterns having an æffect?


mvscal: I doubt weather patterns have an æffect.

Dins: Yes, they certainly do.

Goobs: I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER PATTERNS!!!!!

Common Sense: Shut the fuck up, the big kids are talking.

I said nothing about the weather.

By using a quote in your post, you certainly did, in a roundabout way.

Moron.

[Screw_Michigan]

Went there on Friday night. They were some of the worst, dryest wings I've ever had. That place is really hit or miss.

Was up in Muskegon on Sat night and went to my first bw3. Concur. Horrible wings. Small and dry. Thank god for Oberon though. Well, that and Newcastle.

who put a gun to your head and made you go to muskegon, where you probably had another gun put toward your head?

[Adelpiero]

while heading back from Cbus, we hit the BWW in Terre Haute.

Best atmosphere for football, every table was packed with fans in every jersey, screaming, taunting, smack talking while chowing on wings and chugging pitchers / bottles of beer. Jets fans chanting their J-E-T-S. Jerkoff Chiefs fans running smack while their team hand't won a game yet. Loud Giant fans.

Other BWW i have been to were tame to say the least, terre haute might be a hell hole, but their Bww is a great atmosphere to watch pro football on sundays.

[Ken]

Went there on Friday night. They were some of the worst, dryest wings I've ever had. That place is really hit or miss.

Was up in Muskegon on Sat night and went to my first bw3. Concur. Horrible wings. Small and dry. Thank god for Oberon though. Well, that and Newcastle.

who put a gun to your head and made you go to muskegon, where you probably had another gun put toward your head?

Bwhaaa. Yeah, not the best place, eh? Hey, western MI is pretty nice though, you gotta admit. Actually, was up a bit north of Muskegon (GF lives there), but went down there for wings w/her and some of her friends. Company was good. Oberon was good. Newcastle was good. Wings were fried up a hobo's ass or something. Either that, or the sauce came from one.

[Screw_Michigan]

wait. you live in the 'burgh, but your girlfriend lives north of muskegon? jesus christ. is she flying you back and forth? did you hook up off craigslist?

wait, lemme guess. she lives in hart, rothbury, or god forbid north muskegon?

[Ken]

wait. you live in the 'burgh, but your girlfriend lives north of muskegon? jesus christ. is she flying you back and forth? did you hook up off craigslist?

wait, lemme guess. she lives in hart, rothbury, or god forbid north muskegon?

I travel a lot. I'm on a plane almost weekly. I route virtually all my itineraries through Grand Rapids so I can spend some time there. Shit, I'll be there tomorrow as a matter of fact. I also accrue seriously sick frequent flier miles too, so I also redeem miles to head up there every once in a while. I can work from anywhere, so I'll spend a week at a time up there and work from her home. I rarely go more than a couple weeks w/out spending some quality time w/her.

No, not North Muskegon. Just a bit further north... further away from bw3, thank goodness.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Hey, western MI is pretty nice though, you gotta admit.

Many great and underrated little towns on Michigan's west coast, particularly the further north you go. Ludington all the way up to Charlevoix/Petoskey is a great stretch.

[Ken]

Hey, western MI is pretty nice though, you gotta admit.

Many great and underrated little towns on Michigan's west coast, particularly the further north you go.

No doubt about that. Was just up in Manistee last weekend at the casino. Great drive up there. I can only imagine the scenery getting better as you go north- which is the next excursion, up to Traverse (hopefully, with another stop at the casino).