Capitalism for you. Capitalism for me.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I was pondering this question all week. Can pure capitalism work? The free and open participation in a market economy, by all?

I see nothing wrong with a capitalist system that is completely free of protectionist schemes and governmental interference.
If the capitalists bottom line is "the bottom line", I trust them to deliver the goods to the waiting market, and be willing to compete in a truly "free trade" arena.

For example:

If a drug company knowingly manufactures and distributes a drug that they know may cause harmful, or even lethal side effects, and choose not to make that knowledge available to the public, should an angry mob be allowed (uninterfered by state, local and federal law enforcement agencies) to tear the pharmaceutical execs to pieces?

If a steel manufacturer decides to inflate prices by dumping cheap steel in third world countries, while colluding with other steel makers to jack up prices in the industrialized world, should the shareholders be let loose to march the steel barons to the gallows?

Capitalism. I think I can learn to love it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Dr_Phibes, your thoughts?

[Hapday]

I see nothing wrong with a capitalist system that is completely free of protectionist schemes and governmental interference.
If the capitalists bottom line is "the bottom line", I trust them to deliver the goods to the waiting market, and be willing to compete in a truly "free trade" arena.

For example:

If a drug company knowingly manufactures and distributes a drug that they know may cause harmful, or even lethal side effects, and choose not to make that knowledge available to the public, should an angry mob be allowed (uninterfered by state, local and federal law enforcement agencies) to tear the pharmaceutical execs to pieces?

If a steel manufacturer decides to inflate prices by dumping cheap steel in third world countries, while colluding with other steel makers to jack up prices in the industrialized world, should the shareholders be let loose to march the steel barons to the gallows?
.

Just because a society would be completely capitalist, doesn't mean it wouldn't have laws.

[Tom In VA]

Well of course, but that's not Marty's troll. Marty's troll is more inclined to trap an unsuspecting poster into being unable to defend pure capitalism at whicn point he can bamboolze said poster by pulling the switcharoo. It's "bait and switch".

For the reasons Marty stated, there will never be the "pure capitalism" as he defined. He defined anarchy, BTW. In anarchy, capitalism can flourish. I mean, if Marty has a successful concern, and I want it, all I'd have to do is take it or die trying.

Throughout the discourse, he'll probably bring up how the same regulations and restrictions that are in place to protect Capitalism, without anarchy, can and are also used in such a manner that they go against the Free Market ideal.

For instance. Marty own concern A. I own concern B. We are in competition with each other. Marty pays off or contributes money to entity Z. Entity Z governs ... i.e. has control of the guns and weapons.

Entity Z, sees to it that certain policies and "laws" are put into effect that will prohibit or thwart concern B's ability to compete. This would nullify the argument of "Free Market" because the market isn't truly free, with all the meddling, back room deals, and shenannigans that go on in real life.

At the end, he will prop Communism/Socialism.

His downfall, will be that he cannot or will not be honest enough to explore the impurities of those economic systems.

The points of failure in all these systems are ... the human beings within them.

Afterall, while "greed" is condemned and is a flashy catch phrase everyone can despise (while at the same time harboring it), is it not the want and desire for MORE that prompts the masses to gather and workers of the world to unite ?

Good troll Marty, good troll. Very stimulating thread.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

"Well of course, but that's not Marty's troll. Marty's troll is more inclined to trap an unsuspecting poster into being unable to defend pure capitalism at whicn point he can bamboolze said poster by pulling the switcharoo. It's "bait and switch"."


You're giving me waaaaay too much credit, Tommy. Crinkle the tin foil hat a little tighter over your head.



"...regulations and restrictions that are in place to protect Capitalism..."

How about protect us from the Mercantilists and crony capitalists? I'm just asking that the government not interfere when the people decide to lynch CEO's.

[Tom In VA]

"Well of course, but that's not Marty's troll. Marty's troll is more inclined to trap an unsuspecting poster into being unable to defend pure capitalism at whicn point he can bamboolze said poster by pulling the switcharoo. It's "bait and switch"."


You're giving me waaaaay too much credit, Tommy. Crinkle the tin foil hat a little tighter over your head.



"...regulations and restrictions that are in place to protect Capitalism..."

How about protect us from the Mercantilists and crony capitalists? I'm just asking that the government not interfere when the people decide to lynch CEO's.

The only foil here is the foil of your propaganda scheme.

You're just asking for anarchy. The rights of the innovative producers need to be protected just as much as the rights of the consumers.

Just ask Navin R. Johnson.

[Dr_Phibes]

Tom, those laws already exist in the United States - and how do they work?

Martyred was making an UATWCTGD* joke.

*up against the wall come the glorious day

But seriously, Capitalism in it's purest form is neo-liberalism, which has been implemented and proven murderous. Capitalism cannot exist without degenerating back into it's imperialist roots. This is a proven fact, even Adam Smith knew this.

And please, 'we're just mean nasty human beings' is the mother of all cop- outs.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

"But seriously, Capitalism in it's purest form is neo-liberalism, which has been implemented and proven murderous. "

Thanks. I'll let you get back to your comfy study now, you tweed jacket wearing, tenured, co-ordinating class, Stalinist hack.

[Dr_Phibes]

^^^^^^

Spartacist much?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Listen Phibes, Tom and I are busy trying to find common ground.
We only have to hammer out the location of the firing squads and the armband colours of the People's Tribunals, and we're set.

Try not to spoil the party*

* pun intended

[Tom In VA]

Apparently my reset of Steve Martin's character in "The Jerk" went un-noticed.

The "Peoples Tribunal" have multiple outlets to express their disdain for products and services deemd unacceptable. One, is court. Lawsuits.

Like Navin Johnson, developing a convenient handle for eyeglasses such that people could remove their glasses with ease and without disrupting the structural integrity of their specs. Sure it worked, the goose hung high, and people were happy. Until some realized they were getting cross eyed from looking at the handle all day. Navin Johnson was sued and Bernadette Peters no longer jerked "The Jerk"'s jerky.

Another, and one that is far too underplayed in this wonderful world of ours is DON'T BUY SHIT YOU DON'T NEED. People can choose NOT to purchase the items they do not like.

It's like buying hammer and a sickle, to do electrical work, then realizing they don't work in order to get the job done. Return them. If your return is not accepted, get rid of them and live and learn. Buy the right tools for the job.

The right tools for the jobs of stimulating an economy and allowing the traversal of economic class based on choice, opportunity and effort (which oddly enough many times results in more opportunity) is American Capitalism.




Phibes,

"And please, 'we're just mean nasty human beings' is the mother of all cop- outs."

Never said that. We're just prone to corruption.

[Diogenes]

"And please, 'we're just mean nasty human beings' is the mother of all cop- outs."

Never said that. We're just prone to corruption.

But we ARE just mean and nasty human beings.





Except the Canucks, they're just pussies.

[Diego in Seattle]

The "Peoples Tribunal" have multiple outlets to express their disdain for products and services deemd unacceptable. One, is court. Lawsuits.

In an age where many companies make such large profits that lawsuit awards are just considered "the cost of doing business" your idea is a bit naive.

[BSmack]

The "Peoples Tribunal" have multiple outlets to express their disdain for products and services deemd unacceptable. One, is court. Lawsuits.

In an age where many companies make such large profits that lawsuit awards are just considered "the cost of doing business" your idea is a bit naive.

Never mind that the tort "reform" being pushed through under the Bush Administration cuts back even those paltry awards.

[Tom In VA]

The "Peoples Tribunal" have multiple outlets to express their disdain for products and services deemd unacceptable. One, is court. Lawsuits.

In an age where many companies make such large profits that lawsuit awards are just considered "the cost of doing business" your idea is a bit naive.

Let's get one thing straight, it isn't my idea. The fact is, it is a vehicle by which consumers have recourse to the law against producers of goods and services. The fact there is a perceived apathy by this by the producers is immaterial to the fact the vehicle exists.

Keep in mind, when producing goods and services becomes too costly and so high in liability that they fall prone to frivilous lawsuits, you hurt the economy.

A hurt economy means that the producers and consumers suffer as do the people that work for them.

I might just sue the DNC for propelgating lies and falsehoods about me. I'm sure B would be all for tort reform then

[Dr_Phibes]

Erm, can we please get back to firing squads and armbands?

This thread has entirely lost it's bitterness.

[Dr_Phibes]

So Tom, how is the bankbook looking now that you've entered the wonderful world of 'Property Ownership Democracy'? That chequebook must be getting quite a workout.

You know your landlord should really be picking up the tab, I mean that's what you pay your rent for, eh?



oooo that's right, I'd forgotten. Shame. Oh well, happy spending!