The Great Black Hope

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:48 pm

Ninety five percent of blacks voted for Obama. Are they any better off now than they were before he held office for eight years? I don't think they are. Did Obama let these people down? Or did they let themselves down by thinking the color of a man's skin mattered? Lesson learned: it is the man and not the man's race that determines his character. Other US presidents have done more than Obama ever did to improve opportunities for blacks in this country. And they were white upper class males, not black neighborhood organizers.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:52 pm

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:53 pm

ML@Coyote wrote:Ninety five percent of blacks voted for Obama. Are they any better off now than they were before he held office for eight years? I don't think they are. Did Obama let these people down?

Nice circulus in probando tard.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:22 pm

Good point. This place probably is considered a circus.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:30 pm

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:36 pm

Obama missed an opportunity.

He could have emphasized the fact that a balck dude could be elected president as proof that we have come a long way and that most of our sad history of racial troubles are behind us. Instead, he tore the scab off this healing racial wound by reminding balck folks that they are still persecuted, even when they aren't. He led the attack on police/minority relations to the point where cops, white and balck alike have decided that going into the hood to knock a few heads that need it, isn't worth losing your career or life over. The result is the thugs in places like the south side of chicago run amok. If you don't believe me, take a look at the body counts. This war on the police has gotten a few cops killed and thousands of residents in the hood. This policy has killed a hell of a lot more young balck men than any Robert E. Lee statue ever did.

Trump, has bent over backwards to try to stop this, by showing support to the cops and minorities. The media will claim the exact opposite, but ask them to give you an actual statement from Trump that is racist. And don't bother with twisted interpretations of plain english. You can't because there aren't any. The closest thing I have heard to it was Trump's "good people on both sides" statement. This could be interpreted as him saying Nazis are good people, or it could be interpreted as a president doing his best to get everyone to calm the fukk down and get along and unite in our scorn of violent assholes on both sides.

Of course, the left doesn't want this. They realize they can't win the 'big gubmint is good' argument on its merits. They have to convince large majorities of the minority community that Trump is an evil racist bastard and nothing else matters.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:41 pm

Mikey, I'm curious to know why a question about Obama's integrity and competence considered trolling, while questions about Trump's are considered rational and well founded?

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 pm

ML@Coyote wrote:Mikey, I'm curious to know why a question about Obama's integrity and competence considered trolling, while questions about Trump's are considered rational and well founded?

And straight into false equivalency.
Two posts, two fallacies.
You really are stupid.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:16 pm

Mikey, I'm curious to know why a question about Obama's integrity and competence considered trolling, while questions about Trump's are considered rational and well founded?

Barry is over.

He was a comprehensive failure -- and that failure set the table for desperate people being dumb enough to vote for a con like Trump.

Yes we can!
Amerika is being made great again!
Twitter says so.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:56 pm

Actually, many of the people who voted for Trump were neither desperate nor dumb. I didn't vote for him, but I know some people who did, and I wouldn't call them desperate or dumb.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:07 am

What would you call them?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:19 am

Softball Bat wrote:What would you call them?

Desperate and dumb?

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:37 am

Around 63 million people voted for Trump. That's a lot of different job titles, educational backgrounds, personal experiences, opinions, prejudices, net worths, races, religions, neighborhoods, childhoods, etc, etc, etc. To simply call them all dumb or desperate is a huge oversimplification. It serves people well who are intolerant and arrogant, but it does nothing to help one understand why Trump is now our president. I know a real estate developer who I worked for and admired for years. He is smart, rich, and he treats people fairly. He goes to church every Sunday, and he voted for Trump. I know another businessman I've worked for who is also smart and rich. He does not treat people nicely. He does not go to church. But we are good friends, despite the fact that he loves Trump to death. I know several women who work at my wife's company who are all smart, paid well, responsible, and kind. My wife hates Trump's guts, but these employees rave about Trump every chance they get. So who knows? I am not a Trump fan, and I didn't vote for him. I didn't vote for Hillary either...no way. I simply didn't vote. First time a didn't vote in an election since I was old enough to cast a ballot. But I'm not a Trump hater. I'm willing to give him a chance. I'm willing to give him the same chance I gave Obama when I voted for him during his first election. Everyone has their own reasons for voting the way they do. Don't be fooled by the press and their agenda to profile the typical Trump voter as an idiot. The press hates Trump, and they'll do everything within their power to make you think all Trump supporters are dumb or desperate. This way they make you fear saying anything good about the guy no matter what he does. "Oh yeah," they say. "You like Trump? You like something he did or said? You've gotta be dumb or desperate."

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:18 am

ML wrote:I'm willing to give him a chance.

That's fair.

Myself, I've seen more than enough.

He's a spoiled, petulant, serial-lying, narcissistic sociopath who never grew up.

He's not a dummy, by any stretch.
He's smart, but he's very very dangerous.
He should not be president.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:39 am

Softball Bat wrote:
He should not be president.

63 million people say you are wrong. Scoreboard.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:49 am

Many months prior to the election (when everyone said Hillary would win) I predicted a comfortable Trump victory.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:31 pm

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:00 pm

There are an awful lot of people that are somewhere in the middle. ML seems to be in this group. They are not political partisans and many are just fed up with both sides. This group sees the blatant media attacks on Trump and recognize it for what it is. They have this idea that the average American will listen to them. Well, they may be listening, but they aren't agreeing.

The media seems to fail to understand a few points. First off, they no longer have a monopoly. Second, and more importantly, their charade of being objective isn't being bought by anyone, anymore. It's as if they aren't even trying anymore. I hope they keep it up.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:56 pm

One of the problems with this country is a lot of people always vote/side with Democrat or Republican no matter the candidate or issue. These people always have issues when an election doesn't go the way they think it should.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:43 pm

Above is the average American voter after an election loss.

The average age of the American voter is 44.

Anyone here a Star Trek fan?

Roddenberry said, "Star Trek was an attempt to say humanity will reach maturity and wisdom on the day that it begins not just to tolerate but take a special delight in differences in ideas and differences in lifeforms."

We're a long way from Roddenberry's vision.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:03 pm

From a population of 320 million people, those were our top two choices.

First time for me since the early 70s that I haven't voted.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:05 am

ML@Coyote wrote:From a population of 320 million people, those were our top two choices.

First time for me since the early 70s that I haven't voted.

Ditto.

The choice came down to a douche and a turd. The douche won. The turd supporters have been spinning in their own toilets ever since. The reason people like Mikey continue to spin is because they insist on viewing the world through rose-colored, liberal glasses and support party over candidates. The fact that any liberal can view the eight years of Obummers term as anything other than an abysmal failure dictates just how closed their minds actually are. This is by no means a thumbs up for Trump. Personally, I can't stand the guy and would never have voted for him. But the choice was between him or Shillary. That made it an easy pick.

Trump might be an arrogant blowhard and eventually may be impeached. Maybe.

Clinton is a psychotic, drunk and drug addled criminal. Period and end of story.

Her winning was simply unthinkable. The right choice was made, no matter how bad it was.

When folks like Mikey vote, they think (or rather they don't) with party rhetoric first. It doesn't matter if their candidate is the worst piece of shit to ever come down the pike, if they are Democrat, they must be great. Yeah right.

Keep in mind, I am not liberal or conservative. I like to think for myself. Fuck the bi-partisan system, it should be blown apart.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:35 am

Trump was far from my first pick. He is way too much of a big government type for my tastes, but there are a few qualities he has that I like.

1st and most important, he actually thinks it's OK to want your own country to do well and not get fukked by others. Next, he understands that having your country over run by third world savages is prolly a bad idea.

The things I don't like is his pompous ass personality, although there are times it is an advantage. The other thing I don't like is his complete inability to layout just why we should implement his policies. Calling them awesome and big league isn't enough. This is something Cruz is very good at. Another guy really good at this is Newt. Unfortunately, both Newt and Ted are nearly Hillary-like in their likability to the average room temp IQ American. Ted looks like a fukking child molester and Newt's not much better.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:15 pm

he understands that having your country over run by third world savages is prolly a bad idea.

Think this one over. Ethnic diversity is one of our country's greatest qualities.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:00 pm

Did our country get great by importing mass quantities of Somalis?

No.

Guatemalans?

Nope.

Our country got great by instituting a new form of governance that kept the federal government on a short leash. There are other reasons like having awesome natural resources, and an easily defeatable indigenous population, but it wasn't because we imported large numbers of people from backwards ass cultures very different from our own.

The large majority of that sort of diversification has happened since 1965. And unlike earlier diversification, it hasn't melted seemlessly into our culture. This is partly because they haven't been forced to and partly because they come from such a different culture.

Getting southern/eastern euros to act like western/northern euros is easier than getting middle easterners to.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:05 pm

A large part of the reason why Don won the presidency is because a majority of Americans are sick to death of the bullshit illegal immigration problem that our elected officials have chosen to IGNORE for decades.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:52 pm

Did our country get great by importing mass quantities of Somalis?

No.

Guatemalans?

Nope.

Never had any experience with a Somali, but I have had experience with a Guatemalan. I had one who worked for me for fifteen years. He was one of the best employees I've ever had (except that he was a 49ers fan). He was honest, hardworking, polite, and I could send him out on any job and know that he'd do a great job. I paid him a reasonable hourly rate. He still lives in Los Angeles and has a wife and three great kids. It's been a pleasure knowing him and his family, and I appreciate all the work he's done for me. He's not a US citizen, but he has a social security card and pays taxes (not sure how that works exactly). Not saying all people from his country are the same. Just telling you my personal experience.

There are probably many shitbag Guatemalans. But I think there are an equal number of shitbag "Americans."

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

A large part of the reason why Don won the presidency is because a majority of Americans are sick to death of the bullshit illegal immigration problem that our elected officials have chosen to IGNORE for decades

I have a customer who I built a house for several years ago. The guy has a lot of money, and the house was worth millions. He hired me to do all the work except for a few finish items, one being the tile work. He wanted to use his own worker. Keep in mind that this customer is HUGE on enforcing immigration laws. He's a big Trump fan, and believes the border wall is a great idea. He even volunteered his time several years ago as a citizen to help law enforcement patrol the border. Here's what's funny. The tile worker he wanted to use on his house was a Mexican illegal immigrant who he was told could do his job cheap. The fucker didn't even speak a word of English. My customer paid him in cash, since he had no bank account (and probably no social security card or work permit or whatever). I really had to laugh. We tell illegal immigrants to stay away, and in the same breath we hire them to work for us for cheap wages. I'm not sure why so many Americans have such a bug up their ass about illegal immigration. There's a lot of hypocrisy going on.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:26 pm

ML,

There are undoubtedly good guatemalans and shitbag Americans. As for the ratios, all I can go buy is how functional each country is. Guatemala is a mess. Why? I can't say other than to say they likely have more than their fair share of shitbags. BTW, not every central american country is a shithole. Notice you don't hear much about trouble with Costa Ricans here. For whatever reason, that place seems to be pretty damn functional.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:47 pm

ML wrote:I'm not sure why so many Americans have such a bug up their ass about illegal immigration.

Yeah.

I'm not sure why so many Americans have a bug up their ass about shoplifting and/or trespassing, either.

Go figure.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:33 am

I'm not sure why so many Americans have a bug up their ass about shoplifting and/or trespassing, either.

You missed my point. We give them paying jobs and provide them with services, then we say we want a wall to keep them out. Do you think they'd come into our country if these jobs and services weren't being made available to them? If you really want to put an end to illegal immigration, you have to stop Americans from being such hypocrites.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:42 am

ML@Coyote wrote:
I'm not sure why so many Americans have a bug up their ass about shoplifting and/or trespassing, either.
You missed my point. We give them paying jobs and provide them with services, then we say we want a wall to keep them out. Do you think they'd come into our country if these jobs and services weren't being made available to them? If you really want to put an end to illegal immigration, you have to stop Americans from being such hypocrites.

We will never stamp out hypocracy, it is in every last one of us to some degree or another. All we can do is attempt to enforce the laws we have and change through the proper channels, laws that need changing. One thing we could do tomorrow is make welfare to illegals, illegal. This will get some to leave. The other thing we should do is come down hard on business owners who knowingly hire illegals

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:13 am

One thing we could do tomorrow is make welfare to illegals, illegal. This will get some to leave. The other thing we should do is come down hard on business owners who knowingly hire illegals

This makes a lot more sense than building a wall.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:18 am

It's not a new flash that people are hypocrites, ML.

People should not be allowed to be hypocrites in this way.

Can illegal immigration be eliminated completely?

Obviously not, but we have a legal immigration process, and our government has a duty to it's taxpaying citizen to do it's best to see to it that people wanting to enter the country do so in the legal manner.

It's completely reasonable.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:40 am

It's not a new flash that people are hypocrites, ML.

Agree. But it doesn't make much sense to tell someone to stay out of your house, and when they come in anyway, you set the table for them and feed them dinner.

we have a legal immigration process, and our government has a duty to it's taxpaying citizen to do it's best to see to it that people wanting to enter the country do so in the legal manner.

We also had prohibition. But everyone drank anyway. People are going to need to decide if they really want to stop illegal immigration or not. A lot of people talk a tough game, but I think we're more dependent on these workers than we'd like to admit. We wanted cheap labor, and we got it. Now we're stuck looking for a solution to a problem we brought upon ourselves.

It's completely reasonable.

You're right it is. So why are we providing them jobs and services?

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:11 am

ML@Coyote wrote:
Did our country get great by importing mass quantities of Somalis?

No.

Guatemalans?

Nope.
Never had any experience with a Somali, but I have had experience with a Guatemalan. I had one who worked for me for fifteen years. He was one of the best employees I've ever had (except that he was a 49ers fan). He was honest, hardworking, polite, and I could send him out on any job and know that he'd do a great job. I paid him a reasonable hourly rate. He still lives in Los Angeles and has a wife and three great kids. It's been a pleasure knowing him and his family, and I appreciate all the work he's done for me. He's not a US citizen, but he has a social security card and pays taxes (not sure how that works exactly). Not saying all people from his country are the same. Just telling you my personal experience.

There are probably many shitbag Guatemalans. But I think there are an equal number of shitbag "Americans."

Ditto the Guatemalans. I had 4 of them working for me about 8 years ago. 2 of them became long term employees, and when we started working a lot of prevailing wage and DB work they had it made. The worked their asses off and help grow the company.They had take home pickups and were responsible for finding their own crew members. I paid for them to go to ESL classes since that damn Mayan dialect they spoke was not even close to my Spanglish. When we went out of business in 2010, helped them find jobs locally. I still see them about once a month, they are great citizens now. We had to fill out a lot of paperwork to help them out, but they did it the right way. When they started hitting the prevailing wages at $ 42 an hour, they got their shit together fast.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:13 am

Softball Bat wrote:
Obviously not, but we have a legal immigration process, and our government has a duty to it's taxpaying citizen to do it's best to see to it that people wanting to enter the country do so in the legal manner.

It's completely reasonable.

You don't really have a clue about the complexities of the legal immigration process do you ??

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:18 am

ML wrote:People are going to need to decide if they really want to stop illegal immigration or not.

They did.

They voted Trump IN.

Sure, there are many self-serving hypocrites that employ illegals.

That will not change.

Derron wrote:You don't really have a clue about the complexities of the legal immigration process do you ??

Certainly I do.

My wife went through the process.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:35 am

ML@Coyote wrote: I know a real estate developer who I worked for and admired for years. He is smart, rich, and he treats people fairly. He goes to church every Sunday, and he voted for Trump. I know another businessman I've worked for who is also smart and rich. He does not treat people nicely. He does not go to church.

Back in my consulting partnership I got a gig in the Memphis area to try and unfuck this landscape company. The owner was a arrogant POS who paid his workers minimum wage and had a hard time keeping them. We were driving around looking at his various crews working and he pointed out his church where he was a deacon and was helping out paying for some remodeling. Two blocks later we were at this apartment complex where hse said everything would be better except for all the goddamn nizzers her, and that was probably 80% of his workforce as well.

Then I asked him why his financial statement was not crunching out and I needed to find out why $104,000 was not where it should be. He said, " Oh I keep that in a lock box under my house for emergencies, and so I did not have to pay taxes on it.

So we made the recommendations and gave him the changes he needed to make, offered to put him under a management contract for 6 months with a fix guaranteed, which he refused. Left him and then did a follow up call when he was late on his final payment on the contract. He told me that he did not feel that he was getting his monies worth and that we could stick the balance up our ass. So I then reminded him about his lock box under the house and how the IRS would love to know about that cash stash, and that he best send me the $ 5,000 he owed us. But he said I only owed you $ 4,000. He did until he tried to fuck us over.

Some of the biggest prick's I ever met in business were the biggest Bible pounders you ever saw, and would fuck anybody for a deal, and then go parade around at church every Sunday.

ML@Coyote · Post by **ML@Coyote** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:46 am

He told me that he did not feel that he was getting his monies worth and that we could stick the balance up our ass. So I then reminded him about his lock box under the house and how the IRS would love to know about that cash stash, and that he best send me the $ 5,000 he owed us. But he said I only owed you $ 4,000. He did until he tried to fuck us over.