Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Fuck Jim Delany

Moderators: 88BuckeyeGrad, Left Seater, buckeye_in_sc

Post Reply
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

Stolen post from MgoBlog. It's a bit :dins: esque but does a fair job for the most part.

I know screw will be here to get the freeps back, but I think it's fair to say that there is an agenda and noone but the writer actually know why for sure. But he does a fine job breaking down the allegations against what the ncaa found. Was the freep responsible, you be the judge.......



I know Alright, so. We know that the Free Press uses dirty tricks, epically low standards, and yellow journalism of the worst kind when covering Michigan football. Their evil tactics, like ambushing a pair of freshman football players and printing their names as sources despite the earlier promise of anonymity, are not in question. But what about the meat and potatoes?

Nobody, to my knowledge, and least of all the Freep, has yet gone back to the original articles to, in MGoBlog parlance, verify their voracity. In plain English, is what they said true? We should have these answers, as educated Michigan fans.

I have parsed the three original bombshell accusatory articles for direct statements regarding where they claim Michigan football broke the rules. I have also included the relevant passages from the NCAA's Notice of Allegations that correspond to the Freep accusations, and for the purposes of the exercise, we will assume the NCAA document is pure, unadulterated gospel truth. In some cases, multiple articles made the same accusations, so I only included each one once. I've also left out statements that used debatable weasel words like "far exceeded" or "many," so as not to get into arguments over how many is "many," or such other ambiguities.


Article #1: "Michigan football program broke rules, players say"

The Free Press says:


"The University of Michigan consistently has violated NCAA rules governing offseason workouts, in-season demands on players, and mandatory summer activities under coach Rich Rodriguez."

The NCAA says:

It is alleged that from January 2008 to at least September 2009, the scope and nature of the violations detailed in Allegation Nos. 1 and 2 demonstrate that Rich Rodriguez, head football coach, failed to promote an atmosphere of compliance within the football program and failed to adequately monitor the duties and activities of the quality control staff members, a graduate assistant coach and a student assistant coach, and the time limits for athletically related activities.

Verdict: TRUE. A generic statement, vindicated by the equally generic tack-on that the NCAA would have added no matter what the scope of what they found. Blame always falls on the head coach.



Article #2: "What the Free Press found"


- The Free Press says:

"Required offseason football activities are limited to 8 hours a week, including film review. (Players) are routinely expected to spend two to three times that amount in workout sessions. Offseason work is mandatory."

- The NCAA says:

(2) Between June 2 and July 25, 2008, football student-athletes sometimes participated in as many as 10 hours of voluntary weight-training and conditioning activities per week, which exceeded the maximum of eight hours a week.

Verdict: FALSE. We begin the filthy lies from the Freep, and this is one of the most insidious. The NCAA itself characterized the work as voluntary rather than mandatory, and the violation, though present, falls far short of the Freep's characterization. Remember, the NCAA accusation tops off at 10 hours, meaning that it may be less - perhaps even as little as 20 minutes over. Certainly not 16 to 24 hours as the Freep accuses.

- The Free Press says:

"If athletes don't do all the required strength and conditioning, they must come back to finish or are punished with more work."

- The NCAA says:

Nothing. This is not alleged.

Verdict: Probably TRUE, by the letter, but not a violation as claimed by the Freep; or if so, lumped into the extra hours already mentioned in the NCAA allegations.

- The Free Press says:

"Rodriguez's quality-control staffers (who work for the coaches) frequently watch scrimmages. Players say they believe attendance is noted and performances are evaluated."

- The NCAA says:

It is alleged that from January 2008 through September 2009, the institution's football program exceeded the permissible limit on the number of coaches by five when quality control staff members (noncoaching sport-specific staff members who were not counted as countable coaches) engaged in on-field and off-field coaching activities.

Verdict: TRUE, and far more so than even the Freep said. In their zeal to overstate the amount of practice and workout time the team put in, they actually managed to gloss over this part. The NCAA's allegations run much deeper than the Freep's here. The Freep's coverage in the following days would focus solely on the exceeded practice limits and ignored this issue entirely.

- The Free Press says:

"There is a 4-hour daily limit and a 20-hour weekly limit during the season for all football-related activities, including practices, weight-lifting, conditioning, film-watching, and meetings. (Players) typically spent at least nine hours on football activities on Sundays after games last fall and often exceeded the 20-hour weekly limit."

- The NCAA says:

Between August 31 and October 26, 2008, football student-athletes were required to participate in as many as five hours of countable athletically-related activities per day, on several occasions, including, but not limited to, August 31; September 7, 14, and 28; and October 5, 12, 19, and 26. Additionally, during the week beginning October 19, 2008, the student-athletes were required to participate in approximately 20 hours and 20 minutes of countable athletically-related activities, which exceeds the maximum of 20 hours per week.

Verdict: A filthy, disgusting FALSEhood. "Often exceeded the 20-hour weekly limit" has become "once, for 20 minutes." "At least nine hours on Sundays" has become "as many as five." (Those dates were in fact Sundays.) This was one of the accusations at the core of the Freep report and it has been watered down to the point where the university might well be able to argue it completely away. The Freep could have maintained credibility by simply claiming the program had exceeded limits and left it at that, but they made the mistake of hearing what they wanted to hear and then writing it.


Article #3: "A look inside Rodriguez's rigorous program"


- The Free Press says:

"'It (offseason workouts) was mandatory,' one player said. 'They'd tell you it wasn't, but it really was. If you didn't show up, there was punishment.'"

- The NCAA says:

Nothing. This is not addressed.

Verdict: Indeterminate. There may, in fact, have been "punishment", but what the players see as punishment and what the NCAA sees are likely different. However, shame on the Freep for purposely not making the distinction, nor attempting to dig further into the meaning of "punishment."



- The Free Press says:

"Several players said that on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays during the past two offseasons, they were expected to be in the weight room for three to four hours, followed by a run of 45 minutes to an hour. Players said that on Tuesdays and Thursdays, they were expected to spend two to three hours working on speed and agility. That brings the total time commitment to 15-21 hours a week - more than the NCAA's weekly 8-hour limit, which includes time spent watching film."

- The NCAA says:

(2) Between June 2 and July 25, 2008, football student-athletes sometimes participated in as many as 10 hours of voluntary weight-training and conditioning activities per week, which exceeded the maximum of eight hours a week.

Verdict: Again, FALSE. Again, if the Free Press had been content with simply claiming that limits were exceeded, they could retain credibility, but they swung for the fences and ended up liars. Remember, the magnitude of violations rather than their mere existence was a central theme of these articles.

- The Free Press says:

"On top of the regular workout schedule, every Tuesday during winter term, a few players on the team are required to spend additional hours at Schembechler Hall for what they call 'Torture Tuesdays.'"

- The NCAA says:

Between January 27 and March 15, 2008 (and January 12 and March 14, 2009), football student-athletes were sometimes required to participate in as many as 10 hours of countable athletically related activities per week, which exceeded the maximum of eight hours a week.

Verdict: I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say TRUE. It's at least plausible that Torture Tuesdays caused the number to rise past eight. This is what I mean by being less specific and accusatory so as to remain truthful.

- The Free Press says:

"Several players said Rodriguez's coaches were more likely to insist they participate in seven-on-seven scrimmages, which have become more frequent. They also said that members of the quality control staff frequently watched seven-on-sevens. 'They usually just watched and would write down who wasn't there,' one player on the 2008 team said."

- The NCAA says:

During 2008 and 2009 voluntary summer workouts, five quality control staff members, one graduate assistant football coach and one student assistant football coach (2009 only) regularly monitored and conducted skill-development activities that occurred two days a week, even though they were not strength and conditioning coaches who were not countable coaches and who performed such duties on a department-wide basis. Additionally, some of the quality control staff members and the graduate assistant coach sometimes observed seven-on-seven passing activities and provided advice and/or corrections to football student-athletes pertaining to technique.

Verdict: Well, the first sentence isn't a violation, though the Freep would have you believe it is. But again, the allegation is substantially TRUE, and unfortunately for U-M, again it goes much deeper than even the Freep claimed.

- The Free Press says:

"Players also said members of the coaching staff lingered nearby to watch seven-on-seven scrimmages. Players said the coaches were not physically coaching them, but their presence made it apparent that attendance was being noted and their performances were being evaluated. NCAA rules require such scrimmages to be voluntary."

- The NCAA says:

Nothing. There is no mention of the actual coaching staff being present.

Verdict: Probably TRUE, but apparently not a violation. However, notice the weaselly phrasing. Even if every word is perfectly true, the "noting of attendance" would not constitute mandatory participation, as no mention is made of punishment. The truthfulness of the passage does not excuse the yellow journalism present.

- The Free Press says:

"And when the season started, every week began with a violation."

- The NCAA says:

Between August 31 and October 26, 2008, football student-athletes were required to participate in as many as five hours of countable athletically-related activities per day, on several occasions, including, but not limited to, August 31; September 7, 14, and 28; and October 5, 12, 19, and 26.

Verdict: Technically TRUE, but we've gone over this....

- The Free Press says:

"Rodriguez required his players to arrive at Schembechler Hall by noon the day after games. They would then go through a full weight-lifting session, followed by individual position meetings and a full-team meeting. Then, at night, they would hold a full practice. Often, they would not leave the practice facility until after 10 PM. The NCAA limit is 4 hours a day for required activities."

- The NCAA says:

See above.

Verdict: FALSE. Five hours is not the same thing as ten-plus. It appears the Free Press needs to brush up on the definition of "countable" before accusing anyone of a violation of this.

- The Free Press says:

"With three hours on Saturday and a full day on Sunday, players tallied about 12 hours on those two days. They were off Monday. Players said they would spend an additional three to four hours with the team on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday afternoons, bringing the weekly total to 21-24 hours."

The NCAA says:

Additionally, during the week beginning October 19, 2008, the student-athletes were required to participate in approximately 20 hours and 20 minutes of countable athletically-related activities, which exceeds the maximum of 20 hours per week.

Verdict: FALSE. The Freep did a little math here, and it blows up in their face, or would if anyone were to hold them accountable for it. That the program is accused of a one-time excess of 20 minutes, and that that is the full extent of any mention of any violations of the 20-hour limit, should be evidence enough that not only is the Freep lying, the program ought to be considered very much in compliance with this rule.



Conclusion


Unsurprisingly, the answer is that the Free Press's original allegations largely hold no water. The central theme was that Rich Rodriguez pushed his players far beyond the bounds allowed by the NCAA; that he would hold them unrealistically accountable for missing activities that were supposed to be voluntary; that he cavalierly and repeatedly exceeded limitations on football activities. This was the party line in the days following the expose. Columnists and editorialists wrung their hands over a culture out of control; one that chewed up and spit out 18-to-22-year-old kids with no regard for their welfare, in the overzealous pursuit of success. It was an easy connection to make. Rodriguez comes from football-mad, "uncultured" West Virginia with a reputation for profanity and screaming, so painting the picture of him as a control freak with no concern for his charges beyond what they could do for him between the sidelines required no imagination at all.

The Free Press correctly pointed out that QC staffers overstepped their bounds as well, and the irony here is that despite getting it right, the Freep allowed their shoddy journalism to overshadow it. This was virtually ignored. It is, at the foundation of it, a broken rule as plain as a broken window, and U-M appears to be as guilty as the kid standing outside holding a baseball bat. Of all "unfair advantages" U-M may have gained, this is the biggest, the most glaring, and the most black-and-white. It is Allegation Number One. And the promotion of Adam Brathwaite to an actual coaching position shows that a clear benefit was gained. Yet in their crusade to make Rich Rodriguez into a monster, they glossed over it and treated it as secondary.

Yet the primary accusations turned out to be watered-down at best, and at worst, completely false. The best the Free Press can claim is that their activity-time overage accusations coincide roughly with what the NCAA found; in the worst-case scenario for the Freep, certain of their claims turned out to be total inventions, completely unsubstantiated by the NCAA investigation. In certain other cases, they presented ambiguous situations and implied that they, too, were violations of NCAA rules. Many of these statements were even factually true and used to paint the harsh picture of the program. Though not tied to a cited NCAA rule, the clear implication was that they were still against the rules.

All this doesn't play into their current viewpoint, of course. As they and their slappies see it, the Free Press uncovered violations and the NCAA has confirmed them. Details be damned. That the violations alleged by the NCAA and those alleged by the Free Press are often substantially different does not concern them.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
Screw_Michigan
Angry Snowflake
Posts: 20558
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:37 am
Location: 20011

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Screw_Michigan »

You know, as well as I, the NCAA has no incentive, nor desire, to punish U-M like they deserve, so let's just start there.
kcdave wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:05 am
I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
Derron wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:07 pm
You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

88 wrote:I started off strong. Got tired about halfway through. Then I quit. Seemed like the appropriate thing to do since it related to Michigan football.
Dick.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
Goober McTuber
World Renowned Last Word Whore
Posts: 25891
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:07 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Goober McTuber »

I got all the way through the italicized part.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

Screw_Michigan wrote:You know, as well as I, the NCAA has no incentive, nor desire, to punish U-M like they deserve, so let's just start there.
So the Freep boys weren't at all out of bounds here? Let's start with responsible journalism. While the freep boys are jerking each other off thinking they uncovered a rogue program, their assertions are proven to be mostly false and/or overstated.

As for what the ncaa wants....The Michigan violations chap my ass. It will be the first time in the history of the program that sanctions of any kind are handed down and it sickens me. But if the ncaa were to come down harshly on UM when the shit at USC and other schools is out there and substantiated it would be complete horseshit. If practicing too much is all they got, we'll be fine.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
King Crimson
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 8972
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: La Choza, Tacos al Pastor

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by King Crimson »

until there is a crack ring, c'mon?
""On a lonely planet spinning its way toward damnation amid the fear and despair of a broken human race, who is left to fight for all that is good and pure and gets you smashed for under a fiver? Yes, it's the surprising adventures of me, Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar!"
"
User avatar
PSUFAN
dents with meaning
Posts: 18324
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: BLITZBURGH

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by PSUFAN »

if the ncaa were to come down harshly on UM when the shit at USC and other schools is out there and substantiated it would be complete horseshit.
Rack. Perhaps the disparity might end up spurring real reform.
King Crimson wrote:anytime you have a smoke tunnel and it's not Judas Priest in the mid 80's....watch out.
mvscal wrote:France totally kicks ass.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

PSUFAN wrote: Rack. Perhaps the disparity might end up spurring real reform.
sounds like the bcs argument. oh, oh, oh, maybe if we have a clusterfuck we'll get real reform...next year.

the ncaa has to manufacture "violanions" because some dying newspaper ran a hatchet job on dickrod. meh. i could have written a more damning piece by stringing together a few of my experiences from my time in anne arbour. sheat, an msu player wrote nearly the same piece as snyder/rosenberg did around the same time, only it was posted on the msu site as a player blog or something. no real outrage there.
MgoBlue-LightSpecial
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 21259
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:35 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

Stop trying to blame the Paper Shredder's constant idiocy on everybody and everything else. You have a head coach who's an even bigger stumbling and bumbling moron than Les Miles - there's the real source of your problem.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Stop trying to blame the Paper Shredder's constant idiocy on everybody and everything else. You have a head coach who's an even bigger stumbling and bumbling moron than Les Miles - there's the real source of your problem.
whatevs, homie. it's only an issue because someone chose to write a BOMBSHELL. the real issue lies in the communication between dickrod and the compliance dept, where if the CD had just given him the CARA forms to fill out - where he could 'document' certain activities as uncountable - then they wouldn't have stretched for 20 minutes too long, or whatever peanuts they're talking about.

if you were being honest then you'd admit the ncaa would find the exact same "violations" going on everywhere. i'm being honest so i'll admit they'd turn up a lot more than just stretching violations were they to dig for anything more substantial.
User avatar
PSUFAN
dents with meaning
Posts: 18324
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: BLITZBURGH

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by PSUFAN »

M Club wrote:
PSUFAN wrote: Rack. Perhaps the disparity might end up spurring real reform.
sounds like the bcs argument. oh, oh, oh, maybe if we have a clusterfuck we'll get real reform...next year.

the ncaa has to manufacture "violanions" because some dying newspaper ran a hatchet job on dickrod. meh. i could have written a more damning piece by stringing together a few of my experiences from my time in anne arbour. sheat, an msu player wrote nearly the same piece as snyder/rosenberg did around the same time, only it was posted on the msu site as a player blog or something. no real outrage there.
I don't think you're following - if UM gets the shaft, where other schools get the skinny, then because of UM's stature and influence, perhaps we'll see the NCAA react.
King Crimson wrote:anytime you have a smoke tunnel and it's not Judas Priest in the mid 80's....watch out.
mvscal wrote:France totally kicks ass.
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Stop trying to blame the Paper Shredder's constant idiocy on everybody and everything else. You have a head coach who's an even bigger stumbling and bumbling moron than Les Miles - there's the real source of your problem.
Seriously bro, you're in journalism...I get that. But if you read the blown out of proportion hack job that Snyder and Rosenwhatever spewed out you have to sense that they have a personal agenda vs either UM or RR or perhaps both. Add to that the constant Drew Sharp attacks (most recently on the Dorsey signing) and the Freep seems to have issue with UM. I still contend that this would have gained no momentum coming off a 9 or 10 win season. They are feeding on the old guard that hated the hiring of RR.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
Screw_Michigan
Angry Snowflake
Posts: 20558
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:37 am
Location: 20011

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Screw_Michigan »

The Freep (and every other fucking rag in Michigan) sucked U-M's dick for generations and now your bitching because the Freep found something to blast you about. We GET that. Nobody here is saying neither the Freep or U-M is void of any blame in this matter, but your over-the-top whining is beyond sanctimonious. Give it a rest for Christ's sake.
kcdave wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:05 am
I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
Derron wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:07 pm
You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

Screw_Michigan wrote:...but your over-the-top whining is beyond sanctimonious...
eh?
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

I'm not whining, I don't subscribe to the freep nor do I check it out online very much the last few years. My problem is with the integrity of the journalism. I have a friend who put in 30 years in the sports department at the freep and he is disgusted with the lack of integrity at the freep, he watched it erode over the years (he is a UM hater for the record, but recognizes a problem here). Your blind loyalty to even shit journalists reminds me of jonesque homerism.

I guess I was wondering why you give them a pass here. Kamakazee journalists give the good one like my friend a bad name. If you strive to be worth a shit in your field why would you support these douchbags. Or is your hatred for all things UM coupled with blind loyalty to journalists combining to blind you to the facts? I'm not whining at all, just curious. I've written on here that UM is not without fault, but the true violations appear to be far less than those the Freep printed in the Rosenfuck/Snyder piece.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
Screw_Michigan
Angry Snowflake
Posts: 20558
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:37 am
Location: 20011

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Screw_Michigan »

Who's your friend? George Pucas?
kcdave wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:05 am
I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
Derron wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:07 pm
You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

screw = bitch. i peed on his head once.
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

Screw_Michigan wrote:Who's your friend? George Pucas?
It's Puscas, but no.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
Killian
Good crossing pattern target
Posts: 6408
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:37 pm
Location: At the end of the pub with head in arms

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Killian »

Ah, UofM fans. How does it feel to be portrayed in an unfair light by hack writers with an agenda? I know many of you haven't been the ones to sling the mud over the years about "Under the Tarnished Dome", but many UofM fans are reaping what they have sewn in the early 90's.
"Well, my wife assassinated my sexual identity, and my children are eating my dreams." -Louis CK
User avatar
Mace
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Mace »

Bottom line is that there were, in fact, violations by the U of M and it doesn't fucking matter who reported it or what their agenda might have been. Some of their information may have been off the mark, but there was enough for the NCAA to confirm a number of violations.
User avatar
Screw_Michigan
Angry Snowflake
Posts: 20558
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:37 am
Location: 20011

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Screw_Michigan »

WolverineSteve wrote:I'm not whining, I don't subscribe to the freep nor do I check it out online very much the last few years. My problem is with the integrity of the journalism. I have a friend who put in 30 years in the sports department at the freep and he is disgusted with the lack of integrity at the freep, he watched it erode over the years (he is a UM hater for the record, but recognizes a problem here). Your blind loyalty to even shit journalists reminds me of jonesque homerism.
While that latter blast is pretty funny, I don't have any blind fucking loyalty to any of the hacks at the Freep. I'm just piling on the BWAHAHA wagon at U-M. That's all.
kcdave wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:05 am
I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
Derron wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:07 pm
You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

Mace wrote:Bottom line is that there were, in fact, violations by the U of M and it doesn't fucking matter who reported it or what their agenda might have been. Some of their information may have been off the mark, but there was enough for the NCAA to confirm a number of violations.
This was posted in another thread some folks may have missed it.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd= ... autoplay=1

The text was from a Texas coach. The violations are minimal (not an excuse) and could be easily found at most programs. While we're discussing facts and all.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

PSUFAN wrote: I don't think you're following - if UM gets the shaft, where other schools get the skinny, then because of UM's stature and influence, perhaps we'll see the NCAA react.
i'm following just fine. the michigan situation is a win for the ncaa. they'll give them some secondary violations, take away some practice time, and then tell the world about how even michigan isn't above the law. usc will skate by using toejam's excuse about an outside agent even though it's basically a football replay of the fab five. the ncaa only reacts in order to maintain the status quo.
MgoBlue-LightSpecial
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 21259
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:35 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

I don't seem to recall the "everybody else does it" defense working out so well for Van. But it seems to be flowing pretty free and easy in here.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I don't seem to recall the "everybody else does it" defense working out so well for Van. But it seems to be flowing pretty free and easy in here.
weak. who's mounting a defense? you're the opposite caricature of what you're trying to lampoon here.
MgoBlue-LightSpecial
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 21259
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:35 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

The violations are minimal (not an excuse) and could be easily found at most programs.
That's not a defense? A justification? What is it then? Feel free to use your most pretentious analytical babble in order to make your point.
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

pretentious? whuh, you can't maintain focus for my two-, possibly three-sentence rants? from now on i'll throw in a few homo jokes so you'll let me sit at your lunch table.

the gist of this thread was that the freep uncovered a host of violations at a renegade program that turned out to be... 20 minutes of stretching. the crux of their expose was that former players said they spent their sundays at schembechler hall from before noon till nighttime, ergo michigan is obvs over their 20 hours of practice time if they're spending 13 of them just on sunday. great journalistic reasoning, yes?

as far as everyone does it, everyone does it. it's not necessarily a justification to point out the obvious.

by the by, i apologize for the pretentiousness, but that article has words in it. you really only have to read the first two paragraphs, though.
User avatar
Van
2012 CFB Bowl Pick Champ
Posts: 17017
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:38 am

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Van »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I don't seem to recall the "everybody else does it" defense working out so well for Van.
Probably because I never used it.
Joe Satriani is a mime, right? - 88

Show me your dicks. - trev
User avatar
WolverineSteve
2012 CFB Bowl Jeopardy Champ
Posts: 3754
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: The D

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by WolverineSteve »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
The violations are minimal (not an excuse) and could be easily found at most programs.
That's not a defense? A justification? What is it then? Feel free to use your most pretentious analytical babble in order to make your point.
It's a fact. Just like everybody speeds on the freeway but not everyone drives drunk and gets in an accident. Every team tries to squeeze every possible minute of practice and goes hard after top talent. Not every team sends monetary benefiits, cars, homes, jobs for parents. It's an apples and doorknobs comparison.
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football."
-John Heisman

"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost



Go Blue!
User avatar
indyfrisco
Pro Bonfire
Posts: 11670
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:15 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by indyfrisco »

Van wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:I don't seem to recall the "everybody else does it" defense working out so well for Van.
Probably because I never used it.
You probably didn't expect anyone to call you on it but...

posting.php?mode=quote&f=5&p=607861
Van wrote:Unfortunately for you witch hunters, these stories never do grow legs.

When the NCAA produces copies of coaching/consulting checks to this guy, either from Pete or from USC, and they can prove his inclusion on the staff represented one too many assistant coaches, then we have something.

As the story states, even Pete is supposed to have said to the guy, "We have to be very careful about this sort of thing."

Keep in mind, Pete also took over some of the special teams coaching duties himself, which, in theory, may allow him to add one more guy without exceeding the limit.

The funny thing here is all you chicken little finger pointers who keep trying to bring up trivial nonsense like this as some sort of damning evidence that USC cheats. Among all the trivialities you've attempted to cling to so far, this one's just takes the cake for being the most pathetic.

Yes, M Club, what you described there sounds exactly like what coaches do when they talk shop. They watch games. They watch practices. They break tape, and they make observations. They even make...suggestions!

Ooooooooo! Veddy skeddy cheating!!

Oh, and yes, everyone does do it...because it's not cheating.
he attended USC practices, monitored games and offered Carroll behind-the-scenes advice on matters ranging from the needs of individual players to avoiding penalties during punt returns.
Offering advice is not cheating. Let's see proof of paid employment, evidence that he coached in any official capacity, and a roll call of the official, paid USC coaching staff.
Spin away...
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
MgoBlue-LightSpecial
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 21259
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:35 pm

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

M Club wrote:the gist of this thread was that the freep uncovered a host of violations at a renegade program that turned out to be... 20 minutes of stretching. the crux of their expose was that former players said they spent their sundays at schembechler hall from before noon till nighttime, ergo michigan is obvs over their 20 hours of practice time if they're spending 13 of them just on sunday. great journalistic reasoning, yes?
That's the gist of the OP. Everybody else's gist is essentially: Who gives a fuck? The Freep reported what the players told them. Where's your outrage for those actually responsible? Where's your outrage for DickRod when he originally said he knows the rules, and he complies with them - then after the findings came out, said: "we misinterpreted the rules and we are learning them." Or your outrage for the coach who lied to investigators?
as far as everyone does it, everyone does it. it's not necessarily a justification to point out the obvious.
Michigan was hit with 5 violations. That link is your proof that "everybody else" is committing those same violations?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

by the by, you can get over yourself. I was referring to your single line of overblown BS as it related to me. I can "focus" just fine.
User avatar
Van
2012 CFB Bowl Pick Champ
Posts: 17017
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:38 am

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Van »

Indy, nice try. Just the fact that you had to go to that length to come up with anything - and it doesn't prove you correct anyway - is just fucking classic.

:lol:

See, your little quote there doesn't prove me wrong. Read it again. I said, "Everyone does it because it's not cheating." That's not the same thing as defending cheating by saying everyone cheats.

I'll stand by my assertion that I've never defended allegations of USC cheating by saying everyone does it.

What I will say is that the only thing the USC football program is being accused of is the Reggie Bush thing, and that was a player and agent issue, not a Pete Carroll or USC's football program issue. The Joe McKnight's girlfriend's car deal is a nonstory, as was that nonsense about some guy giving Pete advice on special teams play. Neither of those amount to a hill of beans. As far as the NCAA is concerned, it's all about the Reggie Bush thing, and I've never defended those allegations by saying everyone does it.

So sorry, but you lose again. Thanks for playing, though.
Joe Satriani is a mime, right? - 88

Show me your dicks. - trev
User avatar
M Club
el capitán
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 am
Location: a boat

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by M Club »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:That's the gist of the OP. Everybody else's gist is essentially: Who gives a fuck?
ja, who gives a fuck. i get it: merely talking about the freep's hack job is 'outrage' but this:
Where's your outrage for those actually responsible? Where's your outrage for DickRod when he originally said he knows the rules, and he complies with them - then after the findings came out, said: "we misinterpreted the rules and we are learning them." Or your outrage for the coach who lied to investigators?
is who gives a fuck. :meds:

as for my outrage, i'll type everything save my homo jokes in ALL CAPS so you can pick up on my anger. excuse me, however, for failing to get overly worked up that a public official gave a crafted statement to the press that may have sounded a lot like <gasp> spin. your naivete here is either striking or a ruse. maybe there are too many disney movies in your netflix queue?
The Freep reported what the players told them.
and then willfully misrepresented to the public the implication of those statements. it's the same thing as a child saying he was spanked and then accusing his parents of abuse.

Michigan was hit with 5 violations. That link is your proof that "everybody else" is committing those same violations?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
every time i punch my girlfriend in the face, throw her in the car, and drive her home from the bar the da charges me with seven separate crimes. tell me you knew. one violation is that they stretched too long and someone watched them, a second that players were reprimanded incorrectly for missing classes, another that someone lied of his own volition (voluntarily coerced, i suppose), and the other two for letting the first three occur. your FIVE VIOLATIONS stirs the same outrage in me as just one.

that link was the ncaa's own website talking about how confusing the rules are and the difficulty in compliance.

by the by, you can get over yourself. I was referring to your single line of overblown BS as it related to me. I can "focus" just fine.
i didn't realize
weak. who's mounting a defense? you're the opposite caricature of what you're trying to lampoon here.
was overly pretentious. sorry, guy, i assumed you finished high school.
User avatar
Mace
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Free Press allegatins vs. NCAA findings (long read)

Post by Mace »

WolverineSteve wrote:
Mace wrote:Bottom line is that there were, in fact, violations by the U of M and it doesn't fucking matter who reported it or what their agenda might have been. Some of their information may have been off the mark, but there was enough for the NCAA to confirm a number of violations.
This was posted in another thread some folks may have missed it.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd= ... autoplay=1

The text was from a Texas coach. The violations are minimal (not an excuse) and could be easily found at most programs. While we're discussing facts and all.
You didn't post any "facts", only opinions of others who have no facts to back up their statements. Not saying their statements aren't true, only that they don't have any "facts" to back them up.
Post Reply