Mortgage crippling your budget? Experts say stop paying

[Onions]

Big real estate developers do it all the time - like yesterday, when the owner of New York City's Stuyvesant Town complex decided to stop paying its $3 billion mortgage. So why are you still writing a check every month on that mortgage that's much bigger than your home is actually worth?

Good question, University of Chicago economist Richard Thaler says. Thaler tells New York Times readers that it's not just alright to walk away from one's over-sized mortgage -- it may actually be a moral imperative. (An earlier Times article, by Roger Lowenstein, said much the same thing.) After all, lenders had no second thoughts about lending more than many borrowers could afford or than the homes might actually be worth. It's just not fair to expect borrowers to follow rules that the lenders don't.

But why stop there? Some commentators are now calling on borrowers to start a mass mortgage strike.

"Remember burning draft cards? Burn your mortgage," a diarist on the blog DailyKos told readers recently:

"The real risk to the banks and investors is that the people in those homes might just decide to walk away. And that's what we must do. Doesn't have to be everybody, of course; but anyone who finds themselves seriously underwater with no hope of ever recouping their investment....just walk away Renee. Morality has nothing to do with it. You are a cog in the wheel of a machine that is killing this country and if you remain a cog you enable it. Remove your cog and the machine will not keep running. Remove millions of cogs and the machine gets replaced."
Now the call for a borrowers' revolt is being joined by folks who know an opportunity when they see it: real estate agents. Over the past month, agents have been rushing to declare 2010 "the year of the strategic default." Here's Connecticut Realtor Minna Reid:
Loan modifications do not address the real problem of heavy negative equity and are sure to fail most of the time. Even if the homeowner lowers their current payment they are left more trapped than ever. There will be no quick recovery this time. Years later when there is a need to HAVE TO move, the original problem of being upside down remains and the modified homeowner is left to short sell or foreclose once again.

Isn't it better to just cut the losses upfront ?

I know many will consider strategic default wrong or immoral, but as for me, I stopped passing judgment long ago.
Reid is far from the only real estate agent using mass revolt against the banks as a sales strategy. San Diego broker Bob Schwartz asks, "How many homeowners will suddenly wake up to the fact that their home is now worth tens of thousands of dollars less than their mortgage balance? Only the naive will believe that their San Diego home's value will bounce back anytime soon.... Defaulting "strategically" can entice more walk-aways by buying all the major items they may need in the near future, such as a car or even a house, right before they take a hike. As long as you stay current with other mortgage lenders, one could potentially have a good credit standing in 2 years after the walk-away."

And Phoenix agent Bob Stahl joins the chorus, assuring borrowers that a strategic default followed by a short sale won't hurt their ability to get a mortgage in the future.

Many of the agents calling for a mass movement of strategic defaulters specialize in short sales -- selling a home for less than the mortgage on it – something that mortgage servicers will often only consider once a borrower has begun to miss payments. It's ironic that after years of helping push prices up to maximize commissions, real estate agents are now pushing borrowers to dump their properties in short sales, so they can jump in and close a deal.

Still, they may be on to something.

Calling for mass strategic defaults is the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, prompting a stampede to the exits, and stampedes can leave a lot of people hurt – in this case, all the homeowners who live next door to the borrowers who stop paying, and suddenly see their property values plummet.

But there's also potential for millions of borrowers to gain if strategic defaults occur on a large scale. Nearly one in four borrowers nationally owes at least 20 percent more on mortgages than their home is actually worth, and in Nevada and Arionza it's more than half. The Wall Street Journal reports that about 1 million borrowers deliberately decided to stop paying their mortgages in 2009, or one in four of all mortgage defaults. When a critical mass of borrowers stops paying, it makes lenders – really, we're talking about the investors in mortgage-backed securities -- a whole lot more receptive to the idea of lowering the principal borrowers owe on their mortgages to persuade them that it's worth continuing to pay.

"People are spending far more on mortgage and ownership costs than they would to rent the same unit and there is almost no realistic prospect that there will ever get equity in many of these homes," says Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research and author of the book False Profits: Recovering From the Bubble Economy. "Walking away will save them money and also free up money for consumption, thereby providing a boost to the economy. Banks will likely be far more forgiving of people who default in this crisis than they would ordinarily be. This isn't altruism -- they want to be able to make loans."

[PSUFAN]

Or, you could just post this:
http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/01/25/ ... walk-away/

[Cuda]

absolutely true, onions.

You can go more than a year without making a payment before they even start threatening to foreclose. Actually getting you out can take upwards of 18 months which gives you plenty of time to get the insurance paid up and then burn the motherfucker down and collect the cash and disappear.

[SunCoastSooner]

absolutely true, onions.

You can go more than a year without making a payment before they even start threatening to foreclose. Actually getting you out can take upwards of 18 months which gives you plenty of time to get the insurance paid up and then burn the motherfucker down and collect the cash and disappear.

One of my neighbors are doing the "walk away Renee" right now. The husband confided in me that he hadn't made a mortgage payment since June of '08 and wasn't served with notice until last month. His mortgage had been sold and resold almost a dozen times and the current holder couldn't even produce a note nor did it notify the secondary lender where he has a second mortgage.

After he was served he went and saw an attorney I recommended to him and went to court. The judge basically lit up the stand in attorney for the note holder. They hadn’t served all the parties involved in foreclosure, had no note to produce, and hadn’t even attempted mediation with owners which is required by state law. He basically told them not to come back to court until all these tasks had been taken care of… The next available opportunity to attempt mediation isn’t until December; then there will be a 60 day period before they can re-file only after serving all parties and finding the original note. Even when default comes it probably won’t be until next the Fall of 2011 before he is forced out.

[Van]

The Black Swan. Nassim Nicholas Taleb. Read it. This could easily turn into a Black Swan event.

Again with the 'Black Swan' talk from you?

You fill me with vituperation. Vapid vituperation, even.

-TVO

[JMak]

I'm getting to this point. I still own a home in Michigan - owe just less than 90K on it (about 1K payment per month). Thing probably would value out at less than 40K and I think that's being optimistic. We can maybe rent it for 850 to 900 per month. Going on three months paying the mortgage and a rent payment here in Portland. Another few months and I'll prolly strongly consider dropping the moral imperative and walk away. Ain't gonna ever recover on the home in MI.

The advice I have gotten so far says buy a new home, walk away from the current home, and go all cash consumption for a few years. Though for me buying a new home is a few years away...no way I'm paying that mortgage for a few more years...

[Cuda]

I'm getting to this point. I still own a home in Michigan - owe just less than 90K on it (about 1K payment per month). Thing probably would value out at less than 40K and I think that's being optimistic. We can maybe rent it for 850 to 900 per month. Going on three months paying the mortgage and a rent payment here in Portland. Another few months and I'll prolly strongly consider dropping the moral imperative and walk away. Ain't gonna ever recover on the home in MI.

The advice I have gotten so far says buy a new home, walk away from the current home, and go all cash consumption for a few years. Though for me buying a new home is a few years away...no way I'm paying that mortgage for a few more years...

don't you know how to start a fire?

[smackaholic]

hey, why the fukk not? the fed's gonna have to do the same thing sooner or later.

rack the hell out of my 40% LTV ratio (conservative guestimate).

[SunCoastSooner]

I'm getting to this point. I still own a home in Michigan - owe just less than 90K on it (about 1K payment per month). Thing probably would value out at less than 40K and I think that's being optimistic. We can maybe rent it for 850 to 900 per month. Going on three months paying the mortgage and a rent payment here in Portland. Another few months and I'll prolly strongly consider dropping the moral imperative and walk away. Ain't gonna ever recover on the home in MI.

The advice I have gotten so far says buy a new home, walk away from the current home, and go all cash consumption for a few years. Though for me buying a new home is a few years away...no way I'm paying that mortgage for a few more years...

don't you know how to start a fire?

You didn't know they FDs have arson investigators?

[Cuda]

In Michigan?

Yeah, your fire would be a priority- they'll get to it sometime around 2020

[Atomic Punk]

Here's a situation I'm dealing with...

I'm now a licensed nurse and put my entire education on a credit card as I don't qualify for gubment cheese like 95% of my former classmates. My interest rate from Citi (it was bailed out right?) went from 13% to 23%, and now I saw my statement today and wasn't told that it was hiked to over 25%. I sent in $400 today and am thinking I won't pay them another dime.

The people that qualified for financial aid got funded where I didn't get the opportunity. For the financial peeps here, and I know many of you are smart financial wizzez... Should I pay Citi next month? If you're serious, send me via PM so you can't look weak on a smack board.

This is such bullshit when I've paid on time every month since I've had credit. One of my coworkers said his interest rate went up to 25% from Citi and I told him mine was at 23%. I looked at my statement today and it's now at 25%. I am not a single black woman with multiple kids getting everything paid for.

Why the fuck should I pay Citi one more fucking check after they where bailed out?

[SunCoastSooner]

Crazy question, but did you consult with any financial people before you decided to pay for college on a credit card?

RACK!

[PSUFAN]

Holy bajeezis...25%?

[Mr T]

To receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must:

* Be a U.S. citizen or eligible noncitizen.
* Have a valid Social Security Number
* Be registered with Selective Service if you are male and 18 to 25 years of age
* Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an exam approved by the U.S. Department of Education.
* Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs.
* Not have a drug conviction for an offense that occurred while you were receiving federal student aid (such as grants, loans, or work-study).
* You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan.


Those are some steep requirements....

[SunCoastSooner]

To receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must:

* Be a U.S. citizen or eligible noncitizen.
* Have a valid Social Security Number
* Be registered with Selective Service if you are male and 18 to 25 years of age
* Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an exam approved by the U.S. Department of Education.
* Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs.
* Not have a drug conviction for an offense that occurred while you were receiving federal student aid (such as grants, loans, or work-study).
* You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan.


Those are some steep requirements....

Yeah, I never buy the bullshit when I hear someone say they don't qualify for government assistance to go to school. My ex-wife qualified to get a small PELL grant even during the hay day of my earnings to continue to go to school and had to report my income as part of the household. Not to open up the board for more of their pile ons but I know damn good and well I make considerably more income in my bad years than damn near any nurse.

[Atomic Punk]

Why the fuck should I pay Citi one more fucking check after they where bailed out?

Because you borrowed the money under the terms of a contract that required it to be repaid with interest at a rate that could vary?

And the fact that your elected Congress passed a law allowing the Treasury Department to loan Citi money has nothing whatsoever to do with your contract with Citi.

Crazy question, but did you consult with any financial people before you decided to pay for college on a credit card?

Okay, so I'm fucked. Why did the Federal Gubmint give them a loan then? To help the people or pay the current administration off?

[Goober McTuber]

Why the fuck should I pay Citi one more fucking check after they where bailed out?

Because you borrowed the money under the terms of a contract that required it to be repaid with interest at a rate that could vary?

And the fact that your elected Congress passed a law allowing the Treasury Department to loan Citi money has nothing whatsoever to do with your contract with Citi.

Crazy question, but did you consult with any financial people before you decided to pay for college on a credit card?

Okay, so I'm fucked. Why did the Federal Gubmint give them a loan then? To help the people or pay the current administration off?

Well, at least you're not.....uh.....err.....nevermind.

[Onions]

Black Swan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg8Vq6w0JSE

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Okay, so I'm fucked.

Yeah, yeah... let's concentrate on you for a minute. I don't how stupid you really are, and believe me, I am giving you a wide berth there... but no one in their right mind hits up Citi instead of Sallie Mae to help them attain an education.

Let me guess... drug conviction. Has to be. Would explain a lot of your... abnormal behavior.

[Goober McTuber]

Explain your fucked up situation and ask them if they have any ideas. There is probably some grant out there to help people who did something as dumb as you did.

It would take an awfully large grant to retrieve all the copies of those photos. Just sayin'.

[BSmack]

Fucking awesome. You can dump a home mortgage and be free of negative credit in 7 years, but God help you if you can't pay back 100k in college loans in this economy. That shit will follow you around like a fucking albatross the rest of your life if you don't keep up. I'm so glad I got my BA when I did.

[LTS TRN 2]

With all due respect to the Left Banke, we've stopped walking away, and started taking back

[smackaholic]

bring back debtors prison.

notice how you can pretty much tell anyone to go fukk themselves when it comes to debt, 'cept of course, uncle sam. he will throw your ass in prison.

[BSmack]

I know what you mean. It totally sucks that you have to pay your own debts these days.

No you don't. All you have to do is walk away and deal with shitty credit for 7 years. But since people in that predicament are already in over their heads and already have shitty credit, there is really no downside and a hell of a lot of upside in the increased cash flow. That is, unless you just got out of school and entered the worst job market since the 1930s and it is the Federal Government you happen to owe. In that case you'll be hounded until the end of time.

So to sum things up, buy a house that is priced at 20x your yearly salary and you can bail any damn time you like. But get an education with the intent of increasing your earning potential (and consequently increasing federal tax revenue) and you had better stay current or else.

BTW: As stupid as AP's college funding scheme might sound, he can at least have his debt discharged if it is over his ability to pay. You can't say that about a federally guaranteed student loan.

[Tom In VA]

bring back debtors prison.

We are.


Sincerely,
FEMA

[Atomic Punk]

88 and Brian...

I'm looking at the worst case scenario. I don't qualify for student loans as someone thinks I can as stated earlier in this thread. I fully intend to pay it off but am looking at the worst case scenario as they've jacked my interest rate up to 25%. Citi has been bailed out by the gubmint, and they are fucking over everyone in the process. It's not a federal loan, it's a line of credit. As I'm in transition, I am more than wiling to pay it off quickly. My point is, if I can't pay as they keep jacking it up... then I wanna know what they can do to me if I tell them I've paid enough, and tell them they are crooks... to which they don't care. I talked to a Citi hack phone slap tonight and she didn't want to hear my concern. She annotated what I just told you financial wizzards and hung up.

Hey, I'll pay it off but it's fucked up they are jacking interest rates up when there are a few paying off debt at any means to make a better living. If anyone wants to smack me on doing what I have to do, then you are the equivalent of LV.

Yeah, yeah... smack is all good and the reindeer coming 11 months from now, etc... There are a few very smart people here that have opinions and ideas. I don't want to pay these fucking crooks out of the principle of them getting bailed out by Obama.

[Van]

Wtf, now even mvscal is Nick? Imagine that mindfuck! The horrah...

[trev]

Can't you cancel that credit card and get a better deal? I am still constantly getting offers for credit cards with with 0% interest, etc.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

If you put your entire education on a credit card, you might be the most colossal tard to ever steal oxygen on planet earth.

Yeah, but what he hasn't told you is that his "education" probably only cost about 37 bucks (plus interest) and two blown cocks.

[L45B]

I am probably a deadbeat.

I purchased a house in Arizona at age 26, for what was at the time, a pretty good bargain. The house was only a couple years old and appraised for $30k above the selling price, so I bought. I had always had a good credit rating, so I was eligible for an FHA loan at a very good fixed rate. I had a decent amount of credit card debt left over from college, but I made good money and had no issues making my house payment and covering basic cost of living.

Then the bubble burst.

My neighborhood started flooding with for sale signs and foreclosure notices. As time went by, it was hard not to notice what similar homes to mine were selling for. And it was hard not to be discouraged by how far under water my house was-- $10k, $20k, $50k, it kept getting worse and worse.

Meanwhile, my company offered me a promotion and a chance to relocate to the east coast. Based on the career opportunity and the huge bump in salary, I knew I couldn't turn it down. Only issue was that at the time my company did not have a formal GBO policy so out of all my relocation costs, the only one my company did not cover was the house purchase. And even if it had, it probably wouldn't have mattered as most companies only cover the current market price of the home. At that point, my house was already valued at roughly $100k below what my mortgage was.

In the end, it was a no-brainer for me. I took the promotion and attempted to rent the house after I moved. I kept making house payments, but was not having any luck getting a renter. Next, I hired a realtor and tried getting a buyer. Had my company been able to pick up at least the market price, I probably would've been able to do a successful short-sale. But after almost a year of pumping money into an endless black hole, I decided to walk.

In reality, if I tried to hold on to the house it would probably take me at least 15-20 years of making payments just to break even. For me, it made absolutely zero sense. Instead, I could pocket that money, invest it elsewhere, and in 15-20 years buy the same house for potentially less money, all in cash. Call me irresponsible. Call me immoral. But I will gladly take 5-7 years of a bad credit rating over having to throw money at a sinking ship. At this point, I have all other debts completely paid off. I don't require the use of credit cards. Unless Moose & Rocko come knocking at my door, I have no motivation to do otherwise. I find it hard that others in the same situation wouldn't do the same thing.

[Atomic Punk]

I'm looking at the worst case scenario.

Over your shoulder into your jizz spackled mirror?

If you put your entire education on a credit card, you might be the most colossal tard to ever steal oxygen on planet earth. Honestly, your best bet is to slip into a nice, warm bath and open an artery or two. You should be able to locate them with your hideously overpriced education.

There were no other options than to go this route you fucking "know-it-all." None. There is a 2 year waiting list to get in any nursing program in this shithole area. We are talking a minimum of 2 years. So what do I do... wait for the chance that I can get a student loan from the gubmint run by minorities that are actually the majority?

You live in this state and should know the deal. You are dishonest if you say I'm qualified for a student loan. I won't go the race route here, but be intellectually honest and look at how a single black fertilization chamber gets priority over a white guy that has a job in

[L45B]

Shit happens, man. That is why we have bankruptcy laws and foreclosure laws. Don't sweat it.

Trust me buddy, I don't even think about it. It caused me a lot of stress when I was in the shit, but now life is smooth sailin'. Sounds bad, but it was the best financial decision of my life.

[BSmack]

If you buy a house, the lender holds a mortgage as collateral. The lender is making the same bet as you. He is betting that the house will not depreciate and that you will be able to pay back the loan. If you cannot or choose not to pay back the loan, the mortgage holder should still be OK unless he loses his other bet (that your house will not depreciate). But the risk is on the lender. And in a bankruptcy, the lender gets his collateral to sell on the open market, and the debtor gets 7 years of being labeled exactly what he is. A deadbeat.

Yea, and then the bank gets the fed to buy the toxic note back up at nearly full value and the homeowner walks away with nothing more than he already would have, that is a shitty credit rating.

Now, if you borrow money to obtain an education, what security can be taken by the lender in return? Nada. So, if you cannot or choose not to pay back the loan, what collateral does the lender hold? Bupkiss. That is why lenders wouldn't loan money to dolts who wanted to spend it on college unless repayment of the loan was guaranteed by the gub'mint. So the gub'mint backed up that loan for you. And now the gub'mint is standing around holding lots of substantially worthless paper.

The government's security is the mounds of data that show that people with more education earn more, and therefore pay more in taxes over their lifetimes.

Maybe you noticed that Obama wants to federalize the entire student loan industry. All of it. No private lenders. Just you and the gub'mint, hashing out a deal you can never, ever walk away from if the shit hits the fan. You think it is tough now. Wait until the gub'mint holds paper on everyone. It will be great. Hope and change.

The government might as well hold the paper now. As far as I am concerned they can cut the middlemen out of the picture all together, especially if it will reduce the overall cost. Even better would be our lawmakers coming to the realization that free education should not stop at 12th grade.

Shit happens, man. That is why we have bankruptcy laws and foreclosure laws. Don't sweat it.

Unless you have a student loan. Then your only escape is the Tardowen Method.

[Goober McTuber]

88 is spot on.

[BSmack]

Why do you constantly rag on the Democrat-controlled Congress...

Because they haven't returned my Devo record.

which handed every cent of the billion dollar bail-outs to the Wall Street bankers (Tell me you knew that Bush and Obama could not spend a nickel -- only Congress controls spending in the U.S.)?

Only Congress can ENACT spending legislation. However, the President must still either sign or veto. As I recall, Paulsen sent the bailout to Congress written on a cocktail napkin. Only a willful liar or an ignoramus could possibly absolve the Bush White House from blame.

Your Democrat-controlled Congress privatized profits and socialized losses. That was dumb, unless your ideology is to socialize everything. Then socializing losses is a logical stepping stone to complete federalization/socialization of everything.

That ship sailed a long time ago. You seriously need to stop lying. Both parties have condoned socialization of loss for decades.

You will recall that I opposed the bail outs from the start, believing that no business should be deemed too big to fail and that markets must be allowed to correct when they become corrupted with bad bets. Your buddies bailed these thieves out. Not mine. And you and your children will have to pay for this crap forever.

There you go again trying to absolve your party of any blame. Too bad this crazy Internet thingy allows for a quick retrieval of the truth.

Compared with Monday, the measure won 58 additional votes -- 26 more Republicans and 32 more Democrats. After initially rejecting the bill by a 2-to-1 margin, House Republicans mustered 91 yes votes on the second try, while 172 Democrats supported passage. Voting no were 108 Republicans and 63 Democrats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01108.html

And it was signed by a Republican President and swiftly enacted by a Republican Secretary of the Treasury and benefited one of the most traditionally Republican constituencies in the Republic. Seriously 88, just STFU while you're behind.

[BSmack]

Apparently you have a reading problem, or are so used to asserting straw man arguments you can no longer carry out a rational conversation. Did you miss the part where I said I opposed the bailouts?

Nope, I saw that plain as day.

Where did I claim membership or kinship with the Repubics? Sorry bub. This is not a Republican vs. Democrat conversation. I don't like either horse in that race.

You claimed kinship with the Republicans when you ONLY attacked Democrats for something that has been part and parcel of the two party system for the last 40 years. Fuck your ex post facto declaration of loathing for the two party system. It rings pretty damn hollow.

I am registered as a Democrat because every office in my particular county is held by a Democrat. If I registered as a member of some other party, I would get no vote whatsoever (because only Democrats get elected here, and they get elected in primaries).

So what? I live in a Republican dominated town, but I still register as a Dem.

But I dislike the policies of both entrenched parties. The GOP sucks less as compared to the Dems. But both suck enormously.

And I have my differences with the Dems. In some cases I even agree with GOP positions over Democratic positions (like free trade and gun control). But I recognize that in total I agree with more Democratic positions than Republican ones. You obviously agree with more Republican positions than Democratic positions, yet you persist in hiding behind a tattered viel of "non-partisanship" that is utterly laughable.

Go on, now. Defend the indefensible.

You mean like a conservative GOP leaning Democrat who hates the party he is registered to? I'm beginning to think you are either Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller.

[Goober McTuber]

Just wanted to say that I agreed with 88 because he said the “Democrat-controlled Congress”, not “the Democrats”. Plenty of participation from both sides in passing that corporate welfare.

[Diogenes]

Where did I claim membership or kinship with the Repubics? Sorry bub. This is not a Republican vs. Democrat conversation. I don't like either horse in that race.

You claimed kinship with the Republicans when you ONLY attacked Democrats for something that has been part and parcel of the two party system for the last 40 years.

Actually he mentioned the Democrat controlled Congress. The same Democrats whose policies created the housing bubble that lead to the fiscal meltdown.

And for the record, the GOP killed the first version of that bill, and the majority opposed the second.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Crazy question, but did you consult with any financial people before you decided to pay for college on a credit card?

Until recently, at least in one situation, it might have made more sense to pay for an education with credit cards than with student loans.

What I'm talking about is the worst case situation: it doesn't work out, and you have to file bankruptcy. Credit cards are relatively easily discharged in bankruptcy. Student loans are among the most difficult things to get discharged in bankruptcy -- much of the time, it's actually easier to get an income tax debt discharged than it is to get a student loan debt discharged.

Of course, there's always the fraud exception to discharge, but that's somewhat easily overcome with a bit of advance planning. Make minimum payments on the credit card debt for a year or so before filing. It'd be very difficult to prove fraud, i.e., no intent to ever repay the debt, under those circumstances. Not to mention that the fraud exception to discharge usually requires some work on the creditor's part, whereas the student loan exception to discharge is self-executing.

Sad but true. Of course, that particular loophole has since been closed, so that advice won't hold true anymore. I'm amazed at the length of time for which it applied, though.

[BSmack]

You sure used a lot of words to not say anything, as usual. Simple question, which you have refused to answer so far.

Do you support the bailouts passed by the Democrat-controlled Congress or not?

You want a one word answer for a problem that involves spending nearly a trillion dollars. Talk about your garden variety sophistry.

I am not a fan of bailouts. I am also not in favor of our economic system collapsing. Therefore, I am in very grudgingly favor of the bailouts AND what still needs to be done to recover the money used for the bailout. I am also in favor of reducing the size of industry deemed "too big to fail" and believe that part of the bailout process should have been a reorganization of the "too big to fail" banks into smaller units that will be able to fail without sinking our economy. I'm 15 years ahead of Arianna Huffington on that score, as I have not banked with anyone other than local banks for the past 15 years.

Now what does any of this have to do with the contravention of original intent that is the inability to discharge student loans via bankruptcy?