Scott McClellan

[Q, West Coast Style]

The Dittohead response seems to be that this is just a guy writing a book to the book-reading audience (educated, liberal) telling them what they want to hear so he can get paid. If that is the case then . . .

1. Isn't there lots of other ways for someone who has worked for the most powerful person in the world to get paid? Why this one?

2. Even if he's just trying to get paid, if he had any respect for the Bush Admin wouldn't he hesitate in throwing them under the bus? Is he THAT bad of a guy?

3. Isn't there a pattern of ex-Bush confidants writting scathing accounts of their experiences with the Bush Admin? Are they ALL liars looking to get paid? If so, why do you believe this?

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4. If you voted for Bush twice, wouldn't voluntarily giving up your right to vote in this next presidential election be the honorable thing to do?

[Risa]

Took long enough for Bagdag Scottie to come out with a book. Must be juicy. That man had serious skills in telling bald-faced lies with a straight face, and perfected the art of not answering questions.

[smackaholic]

Good questions.

I doubt anyone has anyreally good answers.

As for the propaganda charges, well, duhhhhhh, there was propaganda.

Has there EVER in the history of the world been a war devoid of propaganda?

Did Bush attempt to steer things to allow us to go in and make saddam history? Ofcourse he did. He realized that after 9-11 we had to take that shitstain out. If we didn't, you can damn well bet the dems would have played that against him as well.

Alot of this shit is just conjecture.

There are facts.

If Saddam didn't have any weapons, he did a really shitty job of acting like it.

Clinton said that Saddam needed taking out. He just didn't have the political capital to get it done. 9-11 was that capital.

And one more important fact. A book like this will sell millions. A book talking about what a swell fella dubya is would sell approximately zero copies.

[Mister Bushice]

A book talking about what a swell fella dubya is would sell approximately zero copies.

Not true. There are quite a few:

[PSUFAN]

Scotty tells us nothing that wasn't obvious - a matter of common sense.

[Cuda]

1. Isn't there lots of other ways for someone who has worked for the most powerful person in the world to get paid?

Only if you're a policy maker. If not, then you're fucking lucky if you get a book deal- and it better be full of juicy gossip or it won't get published and you won't get paid.

2. Even if he's just trying to get paid, if he had any respect for the Bush Admin wouldn't he hesitate in throwing them under the bus? Is he THAT bad of a guy?

1. He got fired, so he's got an axe to grind, and 2. He was way over his head in that job, which was why he sucked bad enough to get canned. Now he gets to be a political pawn without any friends on either side.

3. Isn't there a pattern of ex-Bush confidants writting scathing accounts of their experiences with the Bush Admin? Are they ALL liars looking to get paid? If so, why do you believe this?

A "pattern" requires more than one or two, dumbass.

[War Wagon]

If you voted for Bush twice, wouldn't voluntarily giving up your right to vote in this next presidential election be the honorable thing to do?

Yeah, sure... just as soon as you give up your right to breathe.

[War Wagon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_world_of_spin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While message control has been part of many administrations, Mann said that, "They were just tougher and more disciplined about it than anyone else had been."

Rack!

Toughness and discipline... anathema to liberal dumbfucks.

No wonder they're so upset

[PSUFAN]

Wags, you have to be the last Bushie on Earth, my wiggah.

[Mister Bushice]

Whitey,

What he was actually saying is that Bush & Co work overtime controlling the message that they feed to sheeple like you.

In your case it's quite clear they have succeeded in that.

[War Wagon]

Nah PUS, there's still 28% of us left according to opinion polls. Probably more, the rest are just too ashamed (pussies) to admit it.

I'd drink a Bud Lite or 12 with dubya anyday, and tell him he's done a helluva job.

[Screw_Michigan]

I'd drink a Bud Lite or 12 with dubya anyday, and tell him he's done a helluva job.

We know you would, Whitey. You're a god damn idiot.

[Felix]

thanks for the new sig

[War Wagon]

What he was actually saying is that Bush & Co work overtime controlling the message.

No waaay.... ya' think?

Thanks for that stunning revelation, but if you're not too busy right now, please get back to tidying up around the AP dustbin.

[Tom In VA]

Whitey,

What he was actually saying is that Bush & Co work overtime controlling the message that they feed to sheeple like you.

In your case it's quite clear they have succeeded in that.

There were two flavors of Kool-Aid available at the time. I chose to trust the man who knows full well and is quite aware of the fact that history will hold him accountable in every way possible. The man who had at his finger-tips ALL the information necessary to take a decision. He took that decision and the question as to whether or not a meglomaniac in a very vital region possessed weapons of mass destruction - has been answered. Saddam's pussy-footing around and "Puddin' Tane, Puddin' Tane Ask Me Again And I'll Tell You The Same" act for over a decade is what wrought warfare upon his country. Once he was gone, unfettered access was finally available. The preponderance of evidence showed that he did not possess the nuclear capabilities once thought.

That information was earned by blood.

That blood will forever be on George Bush's hands and I do not believe for a second he takes that lightly, for granted, or trivializes it.

You who sit here and gloat with "I told you so", somehow feeling as if your hunch is vindicated - can only do so because of the information acquired after the invasion.





Enjoy it. But don't think for one second that your "independent" thought - which just so happens to coincide with about every fucking thought broadcast over the media by the likes of CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Hollywood, Bill Maher, Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz, and "pop" culture in America today - is solely YOURS.

You're a consumer of the information released by biased agencies just like the rest of us.

Enjoy being right. A broke clock is right twice a day.

But more importantly be grateful you didn't have to risk a god-damned thing and even more importantly - be grateful you didn't have to pay the consequences if you were wrong.

[War Wagon]

Wow...

That doesn't deserve just a simple "rack" in response, it deserves what I reserve for going above and beyond the call of duty.

Well said, Tom.

[M Club]

There were two flavors of Kool-Aid available at the time. I chose to trust the man who knows full well and is quite aware of the fact that history will hold him accountable in every way possible. The man who had at his finger-tips ALL the information necessary to take a decision.

false dilemma. it's hardly sipping on kool-aid to mention peace is more desirable than arbitrary war. we tell our children there's no bogeymen under the bed so they'll stfu and let us watch the sports report but this douche sees one under his and now we're mired in a quagmire. i'd like to know how well gwb tips the help before i give some entitled spoiled brat the benefit of the doubt when he speaks of the gravity of sending people he doesn't know to their deaths. "i gave up golf." how about, "i gave up my left arm," or "i'm fucking dead?"

That information was earned by blood.

good point. whose blood?

That blood will forever be on George Bush's hands and I do not believe for a second he takes that lightly, for granted, or trivializes it.

yeah, because his track record suggests otherwise. sanctity of life, yo. i'm sure the backdoor draft keeps him from enjoying his fancy dinners.

You who sit here and gloat with "I told you so", somehow feeling as if your hunch is vindicated - can only do so because of the information acquired after the invasion.

hunch? have you forgotten the sheer volume of world-wide protest? that was hardly a hunch.

Enjoy it. But don't think for one second that your "independent" thought - which just so happens to coincide with about every fucking thought broadcast over the media by the likes of CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Hollywood, Bill Maher, Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz, and "pop" culture in America today - is solely YOURS.

it definitely isn't independent thought when the world sighs a collective wtf. the "independent" thought you deride was critical mass in response to the "independent" thought that appeared out of thin air once this administration decided they took seriously the gravitas of war.

But more importantly be grateful you didn't have to risk a god-damned thing and even more importantly - be grateful you didn't have to pay the consequences if you were wrong.

please point out one of us who did have to make any sort of risk. these terrorist doomsday scenarios are so ominous that we're only affected if we're in the actual military or know someone who is. all this food rationing, all the credit we need so a couple banks can ask for welfare, all this rosie riveter. if it were an actual war we'd all be making sacrifices.

[Mister Bushice]

Enjoy it. But don't think for one second that your "independent" thought - which just so happens to coincide with about every fucking thought broadcast over the media by the likes of CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Hollywood, Bill Maher, Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz, and "pop" culture in America today - is solely YOURS.

You're a consumer of the information released by biased agencies just like the rest of us.

The one MAJOR difference is that after the invasion we were able to consume FACTS to back up what were once merely equal to the bad guesses Bush made. The media no longer had to just report the tripe the administration made up and shoved down our throats, they got to report what was real.

And don't give me any crap about the invasion being the only option we had at the time. It wasn't. It was merely the worst option available, and yet he took it.

But more importantly be grateful you didn't have to risk a god-damned thing and even more importantly - be grateful you didn't have to pay the consequences if you were wrong.

How can you say that? How many family members or friends did you lose over there? Are those losses not consequences that we all end up having to suffer and deal with? We elected the fuckhead.

And again don't give me that armageddon BS "if we were wrong". The US was NOT in any imminent danger to justify that invasion at that time.

There weren't two flavors of kool aid available. We were only offered the one, take it or leave it. And how much of our future have we bankrupted to satisfy this administrations need to be right?

[Terry in Crapchester]

That man had serious skills in telling bald-faced lies with a straight face,

You're joking, right? It was as plain as the nose on my face that he was lying the whole time. Sweat pouring down his moon face out front told me so.

I almost felt sorry for him that his bosses had put him in that position. Almost.

But I guess the prediction W made in that Brokeback Mountain-ish press conference where he resigned won't be coming true anytime soon.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Nah PUS, there's still 28% of us left according to opinion polls.

If a President with a D after his name ever screwed up half as badly as W has, his approval rating would be in single digits. And you know it.

[Goober McTuber]

RACK M Club.

[BSmack]

There were two flavors of Kool-Aid available at the time. I chose to trust the man who knows full well and is quite aware of the fact that history will hold him accountable in every way possible.

And we can all see what a mistake that was. Of course, how much did you REALLY trust him? Enough to sign up for this fiasco and fight with the others?

The man who had at his finger-tips ALL the information necessary to take a decision. He took that decision and the question as to whether or not a meglomaniac in a very vital region possessed weapons of mass destruction - has been answered.

As we can plainly see, the "information" Bush had "at his finger-tips" was all carefully manufactured "intell" designed not to illuminate the truth, but to push this nation towards a consensus that war was both necessary and inevitable. Remember that dog and pony show your man Colin Powell put on at the UN?

Do you?

Well I'm here to tell you, IT WAS ALL A BIG FUCKING LIE.

Saddam's pussy-footing around and "Puddin' Tane, Puddin' Tane Ask Me Again And I'll Tell You The Same" act for over a decade is what wrought warfare upon his country. Once he was gone, unfettered access was finally available. The preponderance of evidence showed that he did not possess the nuclear capabilities once thought.

Preponderance of the evidence? Try there has not been so much as one finding of an operational chemical, biological or nuclear weapon in Iraq PERIOD.

That information was earned by blood.

That blood will forever be on George Bush's hands and I do not believe for a second he takes that lightly, for granted, or trivializes it.

Oh of course not. I mean he's even given up golf to show his solidarity with the troops and their families.

You who sit here and gloat with "I told you so", somehow feeling as if your hunch is vindicated - can only do so because of the information acquired after the invasion.

Wrong. I never once disputed that Saddam was in possession of chemical or biological weapons. My objection to the invasion was on the grounds that this administration was biting off WAY more than it could chew and that the aftermath of the overthrow of Saddam would be both an extended US involvement in an Iraqi civil war and a neglect of our original mission to capture bin Laden and crush Al Queda.

Enjoy it. But don't think for one second that your "independent" thought - which just so happens to coincide with about every fucking thought broadcast over the media by the likes of CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Hollywood, Bill Maher, Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz, and "pop" culture in America today - is solely YOURS.

Wow, you mean to say that pop culture is a partial reflection of each and every participant of that culture?

Doooood, pass the bong bro. Don't bogart.

You're a consumer of the information released by biased agencies just like the rest of us.

Enjoy being right. A broke clock is right twice a day.

But more importantly be grateful you didn't have to risk a god-damned thing and even more importantly - be grateful you didn't have to pay the consequences if you were wrong.

The hell we're not paying the consequences. Thanks to this fucking fiasco, every dollar you and I have is now worth half what it was 8 years ago. Way to fucking go Chimpy.

[Tom In VA]

false dilemma. it's hardly sipping on kool-aid to mention peace is more desirable than arbitrary war. we tell our children there's no bogeymen under the bed so they'll stfu and let us watch the sports report but this douche sees one under his and now we're mired in a quagmire.

I haven't heard the word "quagmire" in quite awhile. In fact, the Wall Street Journal reported that violence in Iraq is subsiding. His job was to weight the costs, risks, and benefit of continuing the same old song and dance with Saddam vs. going in an removing the problem. He chose the latter, all I'm saying is I believe he did so with this country's and our allies' best interests in mind. That's it.

good point. whose blood?

Soldier, Sailors, Airmen and Marines of the coalition and the blood of Iraqis.

yeah, because his track record suggests otherwise. sanctity of life, yo. i'm sure the backdoor draft keeps him from enjoying his fancy dinners.

Bush is hardly the only president who enjoyed the good life while Americans were slugging it out on the battelfield. Not good enough.

hunch? have you forgotten the sheer volume of world-wide protest? that was hardly a hunch.

People gathered in circle singing John Lennon tunes is nice. But conflicting data from global intelligence sources is a problem. It was a problem enough to where the the global community felt a need to go back in an resume inspections, wasn't it ? The problem with resuming inspections is that Saddam could not be trusted. It was critical in 1998, 1999, 2000, and became even more critical after we were caught with our pants down in 2001.

it definitely isn't independent thought when the world sighs a collective wtf. the "independent" thought you deride was critical mass in response to the "independent" thought that appeared out of thin air once this administration decided they took seriously the gravitas of war.

Wrong, the notion of invading Iraq to put an end to Saddam's song and dance was no grabbed out of thin air. It was something that was being seriously considered before Bush even took the oath of office.

please point out one of us who did have to make any sort of risk. these terrorist doomsday scenarios are so ominous that we're only affected if we're in the actual military or know someone who is. all this food rationing, all the credit we need so a couple banks can ask for welfare, all this rosie riveter. if it were an actual war we'd all be making sacrifices.

Not the kind of risk I am talking about. I am talking about the risk of taking the decisions, decisions that hold the lives of countless thousands in the balance, of being the "Decider" (I know it was a corny phrase).

Bush had two choices. Continue with the status quo, inspections and Saddam's shell game OR overthrow and make absolutely sure. He chose the latter, like I said, I believe he did so with the nation's best interests in mind. Subsequent to the overthrow we all found out that maturity of whatever WMD's Saddam possessed or programs he had designs for - was overstated.

We can use that information to say "We were right, Saddam didn't have WMD's". But that information came from the decision Bush made to invade and conclusively find out the true nature of things. U.N. Inspections did not work in the past.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I haven't heard the word "quagmire" in quite awhile.

Let me guess: you're supporting McCain, right?

In case you missed it, McCain suggested that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years. If that's not a quagmire, then what, pray tell, is?

[Tom In VA]

And we can all see what a mistake that was. Of course, how much did you REALLY trust him? Enough to sign up for this fiasco and fight with the others?

How many times are you going to use this ? It's irrelevant. I've gone on record saying what I've done and what I was told by a recruiter.

The only way YOU can call it a LIE is because you have the facts. The facts were not present prior to the invasion. There was inconclusive, conflicting intelligence reports and that's it.

[Tom In VA]

I haven't heard the word "quagmire" in quite awhile.

Let me guess: you're supporting McCain, right?

In case you missed it, McCain suggested that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years. If that's not a quagmire, then what, pray tell, is?

Did McCain say that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years or did he suggest that we would do whatever it took to assist the Iraqis in maintaining a stable society - even if it took 100 years.

We have bases all over Germany still, South Pacific, North Korea - are those quagmires ?

[Goober McTuber]

I haven't heard the word "quagmire" in quite awhile.

Let me guess: you're supporting McCain, right?

In case you missed it, McCain suggested that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years. If that's not a quagmire, then what, pray tell, is?

Did McCain say that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years or did he suggest that we would do whatever it took to assist the Iraqis in maintaining a stable society - even if it took 100 years.

We have bases all over Germany still, South Pacific, North Korea - are those quagmires ?

We have bases in North Korea? How many of our soldiers have died this year in Germany or the South Pacific? Are those bases costing us $2 billion a week?

[Terry in Crapchester]

Did McCain say that we should remain in Iraq for 100 years or did he suggest that we would do whatever it took to assist the Iraqis in maintaining a stable society - even if it took 100 years.

Here's the exact context:

Last month, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.

"Maybe 100," McCain replied. "As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we invaded Iraq, but I guess that's besides the point for McCain and Bush.

We have bases all over Germany still, South Pacific, North Korea - are those quagmires ?

The Cold War may have fit the definition of a quagmire, but at least troops weren't being killed in the numbers they are in Iraq.

And since you brought it up . . .

We've been engaged in combat operations in Iraq longer than we were in any of those places. Are you happy about that?

[Tom In VA]

We have bases in North Korea? How many of our soldiers have died this year in Germany or the South Pacific? Are those bases costing us $2 billion a week?

I"m sorry, South Korea in order to disuade North Korea from entering South Korea.

No soldiers died from hostile action as far as I know in either region. I do not know how much sustaining those bases cost. I wouldn't think they would cost nearly as much as the current campaign in Iraq.

[Goober McTuber]

We have bases in North Korea? How many of our soldiers have died this year in Germany or the South Pacific? Are those bases costing us $2 billion a week?

I"m sorry, South Korea in order to disuade North Korea from entering South Korea.

No soldiers died from hostile action as far as I know in either region. I do not know how much sustaining those bases cost. I wouldn't think they would cost nearly as much as the current campaign in Iraq.

No shit, Sherlock.

[Tom In VA]

Of course, al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before we invaded Iraq, but I guess that's besides the point for McCain and Bush.

True. But I do think that was part of the "strategery". Al Q was trying to goad us into a ground war for a long time - banking on us losing the will to fight them "mano y mano". I believe that was one of the reasons Bush chose Iraq as well. Suspected WMD's, it's proximity to the major seats of Islamic Fundamentalism (Iraq, Syria, etc.. etc..)

The Cold War may have fit the definition of a quagmire, but at least troops weren't being killed in the numbers they are in Iraq.

And since you brought it up . . .

We've been engaged in combat operations in Iraq longer than we were in any of those places. Are you happy about that?

Of course I'm not happy about it Terry. I think it's very sad, the stories of these soldiers. I'm not ashamed to admit I get choked up and feel ashamed that I was rejected for service.

[Goober McTuber]

Al Q was trying to goad us into a ground war for a long time - banking on us losing the will to fight them "mano y mano".

Huh?

[PSUFAN]

Scotty was whimpering on NPR this morning. Basically, he's pogo-plungering himself for a few bucks. He seems to feel that the Moral of the Story is that partisan politics really suck ass.

No shit, JACKASS.

[Tom In VA]

Al Q was trying to goad us into a ground war for a long time - banking on us losing the will to fight them "mano y mano".

Huh?

Well Goober, to be honest, that was only one of their strategies. Another was to bankrupt us financially by dragging us into a war. The research I did pertaining to this was right after 9-11. I'd be more than happy to dig some of it up and provide links to you but I cannot right now.

[PSUFAN]

Why...the premeditated one, of course.

[Sirfindafold]

We've been engaged in combat operations in Iraq longer than we were in any of those places. Are you happy about that?

Different Wars, Different Times.

Maybe we should have bombed the fuck out of Iraq like we did Germany. Saving us billions, many American lives and limiting our stay in Iraq.

Would that make you happy?

[PSUFAN]

SirFindaClue, I guess you missed the whole "shock and awe" campaign?

[Goober McTuber]

Al Q was trying to goad us into a ground war for a long time - banking on us losing the will to fight them "mano y mano".

Huh?

Well Goober, to be honest, that was only one of their strategies.

You honestly believe that Al Qaeda ever wanted to engage in a ground war with US forces? That’s why they chose to cut and run in Afghanistan, right?

[BSmack]

And we can all see what a mistake that was. Of course, how much did you REALLY trust him? Enough to sign up for this fiasco and fight with the others?

How many times are you going to use this ? It's irrelevant. I've gone on record saying what I've done and what I was told by a recruiter.

As I recall, you would only go in if you could go in as an IT geek, and since your ability to get a proper security clearance had been compromised, you chose to stay in your stateside gig. I guess infantry is below you? Imagine if Pat Tillman had said he would only go in if he could play Free Saftey.

The only way YOU can call it a LIE is because you have the facts. The facts were not present prior to the invasion. There was inconclusive, conflicting intelligence reports and that's it.

No, Powell straight up LIED. The evidence is there for the world to see, and it has nothing to do with intell gained as a result of the occupation.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0715-05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Goober McTuber]

You honestly believe that Al Qaeda ever wanted to engage in a ground war with US forces?

So what were they planning then? Let's hear it.

My guess would be terrorist activities. Like 9/11. Like the Cole attack. Arming and training insurgents to help de-stabilize the situation in Iraq might fit in with their plans. But it's not like they have this large standing army with tanks and stuff to engage in a conventional ground war. I’m sure they enjoy seeing us pump billions of dollars into the Iraq war, but it’s not like we invaded Iraq to fight Al Qaeda.