Gay marriage is about 'rights', right?

It's the 17th Anniversary for T1B - Fuckin' A

Moderator: Jesus H Christ

Post Reply
User avatar
Hapday
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: The Great White North

Gay marriage is about 'rights', right?

Post by Hapday »

:roll: :roll: :roll:

No agenda here, keep moving.....

Some Churches should lose charitable status: gay activist: Same-sex marriage: Faith groups seek protection of tax standing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Churches that oppose same-sex marriage legislation have good reason to fear for their charitable status, a leading Toronto gay-rights activist warns.

''If you are at the public trough, if you are collecting taxpayers' money, you should be following taxpayers' laws. And that means adhering to the Charter,'' said Kevin Bourassa, who in 2001 married Joe Varnell in one of Canada's first gay weddings.

Liberal backbenchers have been pressing Paul Martin to amend C-38, the controversial gay-marriage bill, to protect the tax status of Churches that refuse to perform such marriages. But even an amendment won't stop Mr. Bourassa from pursuing the issue.

''We have no problem with the Catholic Church or any other faith group promoting bigotry,'' said Mr. Bourassa, himself a member of Metropolitan Community Church in Toronto. ''We have a problem with the Canadian government funding that bigotry.''

Under current rules, donations to religious groups are tax-privileged as long as the Church refrains from partisan political activity.

''They can't connect their views with any political candidate,'' said Peter Broder, the director of regulatory affairs at Imagine Canada, an umbrella organization for charities and non-profit groups.

In a press release, Dr. Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College and a senior director of the Defend Marriage Coalition, cited Mr. Bourassa's comments to renew his call for the government to scrap C-38.

''This is just further evidence that Bill C-38 cannot be reconciled with the Freedom of Religion and Conscience that form the very basis of our democratic society,'' Mr. McVety said in the release.

''This appears to be part of a campaign orchestrated by the Liberal government. Just a couple of weeks ago a memo was circulated in the Liberal caucus soliciting support for a campaign directed against Canada Christian College specifically,'' Mr. McVety said. ''Imagine threatening the educational future of a thousand students if I don't stop speaking out. If that's not an abuse of power, what is?''

Messrs. Bourassa and Varnell, who run the Web site http://www.equalmarriage.ca, said the distinction between advocacy and partisan politics is artificial.

The role of the Catholic Church in public debate is both legitimate and legal, according to Bede Hubbard, the associate secretary-general of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops.

''Right from the very beginning, the representatives of the government have called on Canadians to express their opinions,'' he said. ''And certainly Canadian Churches are among Canadian citizens.''

Even if the Churches are in compliance with tax laws -- with or without an amendment to the marriage bill -- they could still be subject to a challenge under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. But this is unlikely to succeed, Mr. Broder said.

''It's hard to see how that would happen,'' he said. ''For example, I'm not aware of any religious group having been challenged on their refusal to marry divorced people.''

Churches rely heavily on their charitable status to encourage more frequent and more generous donations, according to Janet Epp Buckingham, the director of law and public policy for the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.

Bonnie Greene, a retired United Church official who specialized in tax issues, said the charitable status of Churches is not under any immediate threat. However, the regulations governing charities are greatly in need of updating.

''In Canadian law, the definition of charitable activity is over 400 years old, based on a legal case in England,'' Ms. Greene said. ''This is not good for democracy in Canada.''

Currently, groups promoting human rights, the environment and peace are not considered charities. The rules should be changed to reflect the needs of civil society -- needs that were not present 400 years ago, Ms. Greene said.

Any new rules will need to keep faith and politics separate to satisfy Mr. Bourassa.

''During the last election, my Church removed all linkages to political non-charitable groups that were fighting for same-sex marriage from their Web site because of the political implications and the tax implications,'' Mr. Bourassa said.

And he intends to make other Churches follow the same path.

''There are charitable activities that are legitimate within faith communities,'' he said. ''Political activities are not charitable activities.''


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dtSearch 6.07 (6205)
Otis wrote: RACK Harper.
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

Only to idiots that want to diminish the treatment of black slaves and the struggle for equal opportunity for blacks.

It's a shame that Democrats would minimize those struggles in order to make this argument that the fight for gay marriage is the equivalent of the fight for civil rights.
User avatar
Diego in Seattle
Rouser Of Rabble
Posts: 8900
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Duh

Post by Diego in Seattle »

Just because the treatment of slaves & gays isn't commensurate doesn't mean that the gays don't have an argument that they're being denied civil rights, dumbfuck.
“Left Seater” wrote:So charges are around the corner?
9/27/22
User avatar
Tom In VA
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 9042
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:04 am
Location: In Va. near D.C.

Post by Tom In VA »

Diego in Seattle wrote:Just because the treatment of slaves & gays isn't commensurate doesn't mean that the gays don't have an argument that they're being denied civil rights, dumbfuck.
Okay, and from whom or what does the civil right of sexual gratification with partners of the same sex come ?
With all the horseshit around here, you'd think there'd be a pony somewhere.
User avatar
Diego in Seattle
Rouser Of Rabble
Posts: 8900
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Duh

Post by Diego in Seattle »

Tom In VA wrote:
Diego in Seattle wrote:Just because the treatment of slaves & gays isn't commensurate doesn't mean that the gays don't have an argument that they're being denied civil rights, dumbfuck.
Okay, and from whom or what does the civil right of sexual gratification with partners of the same sex come ?
That's not the question Tom, and you know it.

Why should someone's partner be denied access to their loved one in the hospital just because they're the "wrong" gender?

Why should gays have to pay more for insurance than straight couples?

Why should gays be denied medical insurance coverage of their loved ones?

Why should gays pay more for their car rentals than straight people?

Why should gays be denied "family discounts?"
User avatar
Tom In VA
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 9042
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:04 am
Location: In Va. near D.C.

Post by Tom In VA »

Why should someone's partner be denied access to their loved one in the hospital just because they're the "wrong" gender?

I don't know, I was not aware this was the case.



Why should gays have to pay more for insurance than straight couples?


Statistics ? Do stats prove the lifestyle kept by the vast majority of gay men represent a high risk and therefore a higher premium ? Men aged 16-25 pay more in auto insurance. Get diabetes and good luck getting life insurance. This is a bullshit argument.

Why should gays be denied medical insurance coverage of their loved ones?

Cannot answer. Maybe they shouldn't be denied. What do medical insurance companies have to say about it ?


Why should gays pay more for their car rentals than straight people?


I don't know this one either. Could it be there's more overhead involved in cleaning a car rented by homosexuals ? I mean, stereotypically they're very clean people. :lol:


Why should gays be denied "family discounts?"


Because the "Will of the People" at present doesn't view two men having sex with each other as a family ?
With all the horseshit around here, you'd think there'd be a pony somewhere.
User avatar
Diego in Seattle
Rouser Of Rabble
Posts: 8900
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Duh

Post by Diego in Seattle »

Tom In VA wrote:Why should someone's partner be denied access to their loved one in the hospital just because they're the "wrong" gender?

I don't know, I was not aware this was the case.
To be more specific, this is the policy of most ICU's.


Why should gays have to pay more for insurance than straight couples?


Statistics ? Do stats prove the lifestyle kept by the vast majority of gay men represent a high risk and therefore a higher premium ? Men aged 16-25 pay more in auto insurance. Get diabetes and good luck getting life insurance. This is a bullshit argument.
Gays pay 22% more for auto insurance. WTF does what people do behind closed doors have to do with their ability to operate a motor vehicle safely?
Why should gays be denied medical insurance coverage of their loved ones?

Cannot answer. Maybe they shouldn't be denied. What do medical insurance companies have to say about it ?
I'm sure that they would not be happy about having to give more (for lack of a better term) volume discounts than just to hetero couples.

Why should gays pay more for their car rentals than straight people?


I don't know this one either. Could it be there's more overhead involved in cleaning a car rented by homosexuals ? I mean, stereotypically they're very clean people. :lol:
:lol:

Why should gays be denied "family discounts?"


Because the "Will of the People" at present doesn't view two men having sex with each other as a family ?
Not when it's for religious reasons. Or should we establish rights the Taliban way instead of via the 14th Amendment?
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

Why should someone's partner be denied access to their loved one in the hospital just because they're the "wrong" gender?
The policy is not based on "gender," idiot. Generally family members are permitted into the ICU. However, same-sex couples need not be married for their partner to be admitted.
Why should gays have to pay more for insurance than straight couples?
Do they? If so, is it because of their sexual orientation?
Why should gays be denied medical insurance coverage of their loved ones?
That's not the issue and you know it. And who is denying the coverage? Only employers are. Individuals are free to obtain health insurance from other sources. It's a much more complex issue that refuse to even consider. Health insurance is a privelage, not a right. As such, employers determine whether their plans will provide coverage for spouses, dependents, etc.
Why should gays pay more for their car rentals than straight people?


They do? Link?
Why should gays be denied "family discounts?"
Family discounts on what??

There are very few government benefits for married couples, idiot.

What you are carping about is using government authority to compel private firms to provide benefits to a class of people. The tool you want to use is marriage.

It ain't happening. By huge majorities the American people do not want the institution of marriage bastardized by faggots making a benefit grab.

Notice in all of these argument it is a perceived benefit that is trying to be gotten and nothing about sharing the institution of marriage and what that represents.

Pathetic benefit grab is all this is.
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

Diego in Seattle wrote:Just because the treatment of slaves & gays isn't commensurate doesn't mean that the gays don't have an argument that they're being denied civil rights, dumbfuck.
Who says that cannot have an argument?

I am merely saying that their argument is unreasonable and is nothing more than attempting to use the government for a benefit grab.
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

Gays pay 22% more for auto insurance.
Link?

Why do young, single males pay more for auto insurance?
I'm sure that they would not be happy about having to give more (for lack of a better term) volume discounts than just to hetero couples.


Can you make sense?

Will provide a source that provides information re: gays being denied insurance because theyare not married??
Not when it's for religious reasons. Or should we establish rights the Taliban way instead of via the 14th Amendment?
Not when what is for religious reasons, Diego?

Funny that you equate Americans to the Taliban, fool. Demostrates just how morally bankrupt your argument is.
User avatar
tough love
Agondonter
Posts: 1886
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: Prison Urantia

Post by tough love »

What started out as tolerance, has now become a demand for acceptance.

I could live with the rights of the queers, if they could live with the rights of the believers, whom according to their faith, can never accept the sin of homosexuality.

To allow practitioner's of a perverted life-style to dictate the behavior of a nations faithful, is just to freakin anti-christy for my craw.

TICK TOCK
Am I wrong...God, I hope so.
User avatar
Diego in Seattle
Rouser Of Rabble
Posts: 8900
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Duh

Post by Diego in Seattle »

DrDetroit wrote:
Gays pay 22% more for auto insurance.
Link?
I'll give you that this afternoon. I have to go to work in a few minutes & actually work. Not that you would understand that concept.
Why do young, single males pay more for auto insurance?
If you're going to give discounts based on marital status, then everyone should have access to having such a status.
I'm sure that they would not be happy about having to give more (for lack of a better term) volume discounts than just to hetero couples.


Can you make sense?

Will provide a source that provides information re: gays being denied insurance because theyare not married??
I never said anything about being denied insurance, twat. Mix in a RIF program. I said that they paid more for insurance, which is equally wrong. See above regarding link.
Not when it's for religious reasons. Or should we establish rights the Taliban way instead of via the 14th Amendment?
Not when what is for religious reasons, Diego?
Denial of privileges given to others, moron. Your reading comprension is about at a 2nd grade level.
Funny that you equate Americans to the Taliban, fool. Demostrates just how morally bankrupt your argument is.
Possibly denying someone's significant other medical benefits when they might have a serious health issue just because they're the wrong gender in your eyes is morally superior? LMAO!

Once again Detard proves that the Moral Majority is neither.
BSmack
2005 and 2010 JFFL Champion
Posts: 29339
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Lookin for tards

Post by BSmack »

tough love wrote:I could live with the rights of the queers, if they could live with the rights of the believers, whom according to their faith, can never accept the sin of homosexuality.
As you can see, this is a logical impossibility. Therefore, we should just eliminate all the evangelicals.
"Once upon a time, dinosaurs didn't have families. They lived in the woods and ate their children. It was a golden age."

—Earl Sinclair

"I do have respect for authority even though I throw jelly dicks at them.

- Antonio Brown
User avatar
Hapday
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: The Great White North

Post by Hapday »

Diego in Seattle wrote:Just because the treatment of slaves & gays isn't commensurate doesn't mean that the gays don't have an argument that they're being denied civil rights, dumbfuck.
I am really surprised you chimed in to stick up for knobgobblers. :roll: :roll: :roll:

The only way to protect organized religion 100% is to call gay marriage a 'civil union' and give them the exact same same rights as regular marriage. This would complete avoid and conflicts with organized religion. After all, I thought this was supposed to be about 'rights'. People of religious faith are still a HUGE majority, so their right to practise their faith and its teachings still outweigh the minority of bumchums trying to force THEIR lifestyle on religions that have been around before the rule of law even.

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Why should someone's partner be denied access to their loved one in the hospital just because they're the "wrong" gender?
Nobody would deny that.
Diego in Seattle wrote:Why should gays have to pay more for insurance than straight couples?
They are still the highest risk group to get AIDS dumbfuck. When the numbers of infected in that community drops, so will the premiums.
Diego in Seattle wrote:Why should gays be denied medical insurance coverage of their loved ones?
I don't think anyone would deny them that, I wouldn't.
Diego in Seattle wrote:Why should gays pay more for their car rentals than straight people?
Bullshit. How the hell does a car rental company know if the person renting it is gay? Complete bullshit.

Diego in Seattle wrote:Why should gays be denied "family discounts?"
If they are a 'family' they shouldn't, but I think you are full of shit here.


The fact the lobbyists are militant on wanting their union to be called 'marriage' screams of hidden agenda.
Otis wrote: RACK Harper.
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

I'll give you that this afternoon. I have to go to work in a few minutes & actually work. Not that you would understand that concept.
Come on, dolt, you suck. Don't even try the smack thing, bitch.

I'm not the former DMV hack.
If you're going to give discounts based on marital status, then everyone should have access to having such a status.
So, two dudes should be able to "marry" because auto insurance companies give married couples insurance rate discounts??

What a fool.

Do you know how insurance rates are established?
I never said anything about being denied insurance, twat. Mix in a RIF program. I said that they paid more for insurance, which is equally wrong. See above regarding link.


That's what I took away from your statement. It didn't make much sense...so clean your posts up so that they are readable.
Denial of privileges given to others, moron. Your reading comprension is about at a 2nd grade level.
How can the State deny something on a religious basis? 1st Amendment no longer applies?? Lie, much?
Possibly denying someone's significant other medical benefits when they might have a serious health issue just because they're the wrong gender in your eyes is morally superior? LMAO!
It's not based on "gender," ass. It's based on relationship status.
DrDetroit
I Punk Liberals all day
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:25 pm
Location: In ya Ma!

Post by DrDetroit »

Hap:
The only way to protect organized religion 100% is to call gay marriage a 'civil union' and give them the exact same same rights as regular marriage.


What "rights" are they being denied?

People should not use the word "right" as loosely as it is being used in this thread and in this issue.
Post Reply