Jonathan Football's debut

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

If pop couldn't see this bust from a mile away, how am I supposed to trust his judgment on the All Mighty? :)

[Joe in PB]

If pop couldn't see this bust from a mile away, how am I supposed to trust his judgment on the All Mighty? :)

I blame Texas A&M and the state of Texas propaganda. pops got reeled in head first. The good news for him, Derek Carr is a very good prospect.

[poptart]

If pop couldn't see this bust from a mile away, how am I supposed to trust his judgment on the All Mighty?

He's 22 yrs old.
Write him off if that's how you see it.
I respect your take.

Myself, I'll give it more time.



People don't fundamentally change who they are, their work ethic, etc. It takes some kind of major life event for that to occur, if it even occurs at all.

- Mgo


Admitting you have a substance problem?

Seems rehab is something he needed.
It will be interesting to see how things play out for Manziel next season.
More of what we saw in 2014 and *THE END* really could be in sight for him.

[BSmack]

They showed a picture of Manziel sans shirt on a recent news report. My impression was that he's got the beginnings of a boiler and that he was as familiar with a weight room as he was with the interior of the A&M school library. He's a turd.

[Joe in PB]

Fair enough pops.

I suspect the only reason he's in rehab is because his agent is pushing him to do so. Unfortunately rehap does no good unless the person who's going is buying into it 100%. Who wants to bet Manziel fits that bill? If I were the Browns I'd try to unload him, after next season he'll likely be worth very little.

Small, clueless, and a shit attitude equals 3 strikes in my book, two of the three have to be eliminated if he's to succeed.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Admitting you have a substance problem?

Seems rehab is something he needed.
It will be interesting to see how things play out for Manziel next season.
More of what we saw in 2014 and *THE END* really could be in sight for him.

For guys who don't pan out, it's usually due to one of three reasons: 1) can't play, 2) got hurt, 3) off field issues. In Manziel's case, all three factors seem to be in play here. There is really nothing positive you can point to that shows he will be "the guy", in Cleveland, or anywhere else. It's difficult to get over just one of those hurdles, let alone all of them. Ask Tim Tebow.

Look, you bought into the Johnny Football media hype -- hook, line, and sinker. It happens.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Sorry poptart, this guy was pure college show and no pro go.

He's another Ryan Leaf without the screaming. Maybe he doesn't end up in jail, but he is already a bust and that ain't changing.

[poptart]

Look, you bought into the Johnny Football media hype -- hook, line, and sinker. It happens.

Seems you are pretty obsessed with "media hype."


NFL.com: Manziel - Draft Projection
Round 1
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/joh ... id=2543462

Walter Football: Manziel - #7 to Tampa Bay
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

NFLDraftScouts: Manziel #2 rated QB. Projected round 1
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=QB

Pre-draft, Jon Gruden said Houston, needing a QB, should take Manziel at #1 overall.

I could go on and on with this.

Manziel was widely viewed as a legit NFL QB prospect.
He had concerns, to be sure, and he also had his vocal detractors -- but the majority view of people was that he had a chance to be a good (at least) NFL QB.
I guess all of these people were also as fixated on "media Hype" as you are.

[Joe in PB]

Rotoworld's spin:

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam threw support behind Johnny Manziel on Wednesday, saying he "absolutely" believes Manziel can still be an NFL starter.
Tape gurus Ron Jaworski and Greg Cosell believed Manziel was a late-round prospect last May. On Haslam's orders, the Browns drafted him 22nd overall. "I ask that question a lot to our football people -- as recently as today," Haslam said. "'Do we still think he can be a starter in the NFL?' And the answer is consistently yes." Either Haslam hasn't surrounded himself with the right football people, or he's living in denial. Haslam definitely seems to be in denial about Manziel's off-field habits. "Let me say this, I don't know how much of Johnny's personal life was known by everybody then and I don't know how much is known now,'' the Browns' beleaguered owner said. "... It's way too early to give up on Johnny."

Owners caught in the hype making personnel decisions = NOT GOOD. The problem with today's game is all the upfront money these guys get. It used to be guys coming out of college had to work to even make a roster, let alone get a multi million dollar contract. Johnny Football strikes me as a guy who won't really start working until he's been out of the game awhile and near broke, like JaMarcus Russell. Too little, too late. We'll see.....

[mvscal]

The problem with today's game is all the upfront money these guys get.

They have a rookie salary cap now, moron.

[BSmack]

"Incredible feeling to officially sign my NFL contract,'' Manziel wrote on his Instagram post. "Such a dream come true and so many people to thank who have helped me reach this point in my life.''

The contract is worth about $8.25 million, including a $4.3 million signing bonus and about $6.7 million guaranteed. It averages about $2.061 million a year and includes a club option for a fifth year.

That's a lot of dead money if they cut him this year. The Manziel turd will get one more year to swirl around the bowl before he is flushed.

[Joe in PB]

The problem with today's game is all the upfront money these guys get.

They have a rookie salary cap now, moron.

Manziel is still receiving multimillions a season. A lot of money for an ice bucket boy.

[R-Jack]

multimillions a season

Slow down. He's getting paid like a backup, half of which goes to Uncle Sam and agents. You were comparing him contract wise to JaMountainoffudge, which is restaurant quality stupid.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

NFL.com: Manziel - Draft Projection
Round 1
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/joh ... id=2543462

Walter Football: Manziel - #7 to Tampa Bay
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

NFLDraftScouts: Manziel #2 rated QB. Projected round 1
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=QB

Pre-draft, Jon Gruden said Houston, needing a QB, should take Manziel at #1 overall.

I could go on and on with this.

Manziel was widely viewed as a legit NFL QB prospect.
He had concerns, to be sure, and he also had his vocal detractors -- but the majority view of people was that he had a chance to be a good (at least) NFL QB.
I guess all of these people were also as fixated on "media Hype" as you are.

Gruden never met a prospect he didn't love. Especially an under-sized QB (since he was one himself).

Yes, it sounds like media hype was largely in play with those projections since reality had him dropping to #22, which is not a ringing endorsement for a supposed future franchise QB. Also, it's a poorly kept secret that Mike Pettine was not a fan of Manziel, and Cleveland brass forced the move. He could have easily dropped further if ownership didn't meddle.

There is little, if any, precedent for an undersized spread quarterback with no pro-style experience succeeding at a high level in the NFL. All of the off field stuff just compounds the issue. I mean, you didn't need to be Vince Lombardi to see this one coming.

But I guess I'll give you a pass since you admittedly do not like the college game, and thus, probably did not see him play.

[Joe in PB]

multimillions a season

Slow down. He's getting paid like a backup, half of which goes to Uncle Sam and agents. You were comparing him contract wise to JaMountainoffudge, which is restaurant quality stupid.

My point is valid. Manziel signed over an 8 million dollar contract. W\ over 4 million signing bonus & 6.7 million guaranteed. That's a lot of money for an immature moron.

[poptart]

Manziel's folks are filthy rich, aren't they?
I'm not sure money comes into play in his particular case.

But I guess I'll give you a pass since you admittedly do not like the college game

I like the college game more than I like the pro game.
I mean, the actual game on the field.

I'm just not foolish enough to close my eyes to the reality that the whole big time D-1 college sports thing is anything but a giant farce.
So for me, it's not something I want to invest any energy in.


I don't really care one way or another about Manziel.
I just gave a casual "I think he's going to be good" take a few months ago -----> and that somehow sets you off.
Somehow this kid gives you a huge hard-on.

Whatever.
If you're 100% sure he's a bust, so be it.
Your takes are all on the record.
We can look at what has been typed here at a later date.

[Joe in PB]

Manziel's folks are filthy rich, aren't they?
I'm not sure money comes into play in his particular case.

Parents usually at some point cut the umbilical cord, especially if a child is lazy and unmotivated to succeed or stand on their own two feet. If Manziel was a late rd draft pick like some people in the NFL know thought, he would have had a small in "NFL terms, couple hundred thousand" signing bonus and a lot less guaranteed money. Perhaps then he would work harder, perhaps not.

[R-Jack]

So to summerize your point....if you pay people less, they will work harder for you, especially in occupations where a risk of brain damage is involved.

You brought up JaDoubleDouble and Mansnort. The difference in their up front money was over $30 million, so you may want to rethink your synopsis.....or are you still struggling to figure out why the fifth and sixth rounders are not jumping over those lazy first rounders on the depth chart.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

So for me, it's not something I want to invest any energy in.

That's fine, but you can't tell me with any honesty that your opinion isn't rooted in media hype since you didn't watch the guy play in college.

I don't really care one way or another about Manziel.
I just gave a casual "I think he's going to be good" take a few months ago -----> and that somehow sets you off.
Somehow this kid gives you a huge hard-on.

You seem to care, or you wouldn't keep responding.

Calm down, this is what we do here.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Jonathan Football comes from oil money. He has a lot of things working against him, but I don't think the payday is one of them.

[poptart]

That's fine, but you can't tell me with any honesty that your opinion isn't rooted in media hype since you didn't watch the guy play in college

Being out of the country, I am much more insulated from U.S. media than most everyone else on the board.

I was curious about Manziel and so I researched him a bit.
I began, as I do with most players, as a skeptic.

I posted a thread about him at .net a little over a year ago.

http://www.thetrolls.net/phpbb/viewtopi ... el#p176020

My original take...

I'm out of the country and don't watch college farceball to begin with.
So I've never seen Manziel play.

But I was aware of him and his exploits.
I saw that Skip Bayless was continually creaming himself over Manziel -- and he has him at THE NEXT HUGE NFL thing.
Has him as a #5 on my list there.

So I did some research.
In the video clips I see of him, he is always in the shotgun.
Does he ever get under center?
And doesn't a QB have to get under center at least sometimes in the NFL?

Then when I watched his highlights, I thought, "This isn't going to translate to the NFL."
He's very short and slight, and it looks like it's all yardball stuff.
Running around and pulling shit out of his ass.
And at his size, it looks like in the NFL, he'll get BROKEN.

But he does have some major quicks and speed.
And his pocket awareness looks exceptional.
He throws it pretty good.


I dunno.

Just wondered what y'all thought.

There are concerns and negatives, for sure.

As for some positives...

He was a very good pocket passer in college. I think most people don't realize that.
He DOMINATED one of, if not the, toughest conferences in the country.
He's a gamer and he showed up for the big games.
He's very competitive and is well-liked by his teammates.
He generated offense on his own -- and he has exceptional quickness.
He has large hands.
He's smart -- as evidenced by his high wonderlic.

So bottom line, I considered him a good prospect and gave the take that I thought he would be a good NFLer.


Time will tell.

Except for you.
At 22, JF is already over. :)

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

At 22, JF is already over. :)

Nonsense. Every team needs a backup. Or if push comes to shove, Canada is nice in the fall.

[Joe in PB]

So to summerize your point....if you pay people less, they will work harder for you, especially in occupations where a risk of brain damage is involved.

You brought up JaDoubleDouble and Mansnort. The difference in their up front money was over $30 million, so you may want to rethink your synopsis.....or are you still struggling to figure out why the fifth and sixth rounders are not jumping over those lazy first rounders on the depth chart.

Maybe working harder to make the most of a career isn't motivation on the Raiduhs, but it is to some players on other teams. Especially to those who haven't signed a contract worth millions based on potential from the get go. That's not to say all players who sign multimillion dollar contracts out of college need motivation to be the best they can be, but surely it is true for some.

[R-Jack]

That's not to say all players who sign multimillion dollar contracts out of college need motivation to be the best they can be

But I thought that what was exactly ruining the game....

[Joe in PB]

Eddie Haskell

[Softball Bat]

Johnny says he wants back IN.


CFL?
XFL? :)
NFL?
Nowhere?


Btw, Mgo's takes rule this thread.
Unless Johnny M. turns it around.
Highly doubtful.

[Softball Bat]

Manziel will play for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in the Canadian Football League.







http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/05/1 ... -cats.html

[Softball Bat]

Manziel (who hasn't started a regular season snap yet) has been traded to Montreal, and appears to have a good shot at taking over as starter there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... 6d84120fcc

[Goober McTuber]

Manziel (who hasn't started a regular season snap yet) has been traded to Montreal, and appears to have a good shot at taking over as starter there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... 6d84120fcc

I was channel-surfing on the weekend and skipped right past the CFL game. At the time, Montreal was down 16-1. Sounds like a good fit.