Conn. school shooting

Cross Traffic · Post by **Cross Traffic** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:18 am

ABC producer does a poor job of trolling for interview subjects:[

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:25 am

Van wrote: Your sweet old grandmother sitting in some monitoring office halfway across campus is going to drop her Sudoku game and go Rambo on some armed intruder, and she's going to get there in time to prevent Derron from going Derron?

This is why morons like you get no cred for your idiotic positions.

Your take: Derron has guns, carry's a legally concealed gun, trains and practices, but he has guns, therefore he is a threat, and we the people /government should take his weapons away from him, because, well he has weapons. Therefore, all people like Derron must be threats, and should have their guns taken away.

If I or another person, the teacher, janitor had been there, legally carrying, this dick face quite possibly might not have done what he did. Why the fuck do you think he picked a school ? Not a lot of counter threat there for him. So you would deny people like myself, well trained, and continually trained the right to defend ourselves ?? Gotcha.

We live in a pretty fucked up society that will only get worse as time goes on, and when you jack booted SS troopers come to take every one's guns,it is one step closer to anarchy. Our school district is now placing armed officers at each school in our district for the foreseeable future, or until their money runs out,or until crime overruns the city which ever happens first.

Seig Heil Herr Van Socialist.

dingus · Post by **dingus** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:27 am

Some of you guys talk about this lunatic or the douche bags at Columbine like they're SEAL Team 6 or something. They're cowards who walk into a place where they know there is going to be no opposition, this guy went after kindergarteners for chrissake after killing his mommy. Anyone at all with a weapon is going to deflect him from his purpose. People are going to die in any event when some crazy fuck walks onto a school or a mall and starts shooting, but it may be far fewer than what happened today in CT. It baffles me why states/schools whatever deprive people of the only thing that can save their lives in a situation like this.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:25 am

FLW Buckeye wrote:On this evening's local news (KY3 Springfield MO)

all these years, I didn't know you were a homeboy.

It must suck that QT bailed from Springfield and Casey's took over.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:27 am

Roach wrote:And I agree people like Obama ought to just shut the fuck up for a while, until there is something meaningful to add. We are all outraged, and he is not special. They are obsessed to say something and get their mug on tv.

what?

the POTUS is sorta special and should have something to say about this. What kind of idiots world do you live in to say other wise?

oh, the T1B world where you have something to say but he doesn't.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:34 am

Wags is right. It's called leadership. The haters can go fuck themselves. He's the POTUS.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:36 am

Guns & barricades are not the solution here....

As has been stated earlier, allowing the teachers to pack doesn't mean they will. Considering that most teachers are liberals to start with, I doubt many if any would be willing to carry. And even if they all had guys, it doesn't mean they'd be able to use them effectively. In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target. And even if they went to the range, they probably don't practice breaking leather (something most if not all ranges won't let you do on their lines). Effective training would require lots of training not only from the start, but ongoing training would also be a necessity. The teachers simply aren't going to go for that.

Secondly, suppose you did restrict entry to one point where there's one or two armed guards. Should the guards be defeated (not difficult), you've now given the suspects an easily defensible position. How are the police going to enter the building w/o being seen or detected? Not an easy situation to fix.

Roach;
If POTUS didn't say anything, you folks would have said it was because the victims were white. A no-win situation.

And in case you hadn't noticed, the POTUS is seen by the public as a Comforter-in-Chief. Tell me you knew.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:43 am

Derron, I'm only using you as the example because you're well known here for being a big gun freak. Of course I don't truly think you personally would do shit like this. If you really think I do, well, you may just be as psychotic as you suspect I think you are.

Anyway, so, the answer for some of you is to arm each and every teacher?

There aren't enough of these...

or these...

or especially these...

to fill this page.

Yeah, sure, arm the teachers. Fill them with classes full of little dirtbags who know the teacher has a gun. Then wait to see how long it takes for one of those little dirtbags to steal her gun. Or, better yet, wait for a pack of those dirtbags to force it from her. Or even better still, wait for Mrs. Crabapple to use that gun on little Johnny Loudmouth...or herself.

No matter what, giving Mrs. Crabapple a gun and painting that target on her is a surefire recipe for disaster. It will cause more entirely predictable killings than the one-in-a-million random killing sprees it could ever hope to prevent.

Swear to god, that idea is almost as ridiculous as the one about having people in a dark, crowded theater attempt to open up on some lone shooter wearing camo. Yep, that's sure to go well. Let's just have a Compton theater filled with armed moviegoers during the Friday night showing of Boys in 'da Hood IV: Redemption on yo' Azz.

What could go wrong?

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:33 am

Papa Willie wrote:So Van - as you're saying that things would be worse - no they wouldn't be.

Things would be monumentally worse. Instead of the very occasional random killing we'd see daily killings. No one would even need to attack a school. The kids would be killing each other, the teachers would find themselves killing and being killed...it would become nearly a daily occurence in the news. Introduce guns to an inner city classroom and it'd be a fait accompli.

If people KNEW that there would be at least a good chance that at least a portion of the faculty is packing heat - they're not going to fuck with it.

You're missing the point. The violence would come from within, not from without. Stick that carrot right in everyone's face and someone's bound to bite.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:48 am

Apples and oranges. Your Kennesaw link makes no mention of the teachers being armed during class, and rural, redneck Kennesaw sure ain't inner city Compton.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:08 am

Like Mace said, these guys go in fully prepared to die. More often than not, they kill themselves right then and there. If they know the teacher is packing, guess who they're going to kill first before they embark on the rest of their killing spree?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:07 am

Papa Willie wrote:
Van wrote:
Papa Willie wrote:So Van - as you're saying that things would be worse - no they wouldn't be.
Things would be monumentally worse. Instead of the very occasional random killing we'd see daily killings. No one would even need to attack a school. The kids would be killing each other, the teachers would find themselves killing and being killed...it would become nearly a daily occurence in the news. Introduce guns to an inner city classroom and it'd be a fait accompli.

If people KNEW that there would be at least a good chance that at least a portion of the faculty is packing heat - they're not going to fuck with it.
You're missing the point. The violence would come from within, not from without. Stick that carrot right in everyone's face and someone's bound to bite.

Doesn't happen that way in Kennesaw - at all...

Or anywhere else that has CCW. The hysterically predicted carnage never happens. The only places this type of carnage happens is in "gun free" zones.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:10 am

Diego in Seattle wrote:In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target.

That applies to the shooter as well. Unless of course he's merely stalking through the halls plinking helpless victims in yet another gun free zone.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:19 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Kinda tough to pull off a massacre without a gun, unless you're an expert bomb-maker,

Actually, it's ridiculously easy. Any moron can create a mass casualty event with nothing more than a gallon of gas and a book of matches or by driving a car into a crowd or any one of a myriad of different ways. Blaming the tool for the actions of the user clearly identifies one as an idiot.

One thing that actually does bear examination is the way we diagnose and treat mental illness. Right now the state of the medical art is to pump these loons with a cocktail of anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety meds and turn them loose with no consideration to the possible side effects. Then blame guns when their heads swell up like pumpkins and they start killing people.

If somebody is too dangerous to own a firearm, they are too dangerous to be on the street.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:48 am

mvscal wrote:
Diego in Seattle wrote:In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target.
That applies to the shooter as well. Unless of course he's merely stalking through the halls plinking helpless victims in yet another gun free zone.

Yeah...two people with poor accuracy is better than one. Try again, dumbfuck.

dingus · Post by **dingus** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Diego in Seattle wrote:In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target.
That applies to the shooter as well. Unless of course he's merely stalking through the halls plinking helpless victims in yet another gun free zone.
Yeah...two people with poor accuracy is better than one. Try again, dumbfuck.

I'm guessing there's 26 families in CT that would have liked to have someone in that building at least trying to divert the shooter. It's this chickenshit(Diego's) mentality that condemns innocents to death in this country. One of the problems with batshit crazy is that it isn't neccessarily apparent until like yesterday. The answer isn't to disarm decent people and wait for the SWAT team to arrive-by the time they get there all that's left to do is count bodies and clean up the mess.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:45 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: Secondly, suppose you did restrict entry to one point where there's one or two armed guards. Should the guards be defeated (not difficult), you've now given the suspects an easily defensible position. How are the police going to enter the building w/o being seen or detected? Not an easy situation to fix.

....and responding L.E. probably will be slowed by red traffic lights on the way to the scene, too....

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:50 pm

I blame the teachers unions. Obviously they are being selfish by not striking, thus keeping the children safe by having them at home from school. Any self-respecting union member should be on the protest line somewhere decrying the lack of pay and benefits, the racist undertones of standardized tests, or having to actually (gasp!) help put money into their own pensions. Oh, let's not forget every child deserves a closed union shop!

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:07 pm

MGO sez, "...liberal educators..."

And that right there is 99% of the problem. Taught helplessness, Nanny-statism, let-the-cops-protect-us, rename our school Indian mascot into something benign, anti-school voucher, pro-tenure, every alternate lifestyle is just that: an alternate lifestyle instead of a mental problem, victimization of minorities... the list goes on and on. How about teaching some proactive rugged individualism by conservatives where taking care of yourself instead of expecting to do it for you is taught?

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:47 pm

mvscal wrote: One thing that actually does bear examination is the way we diagnose and treat mental illness. Right now the state of the medical art is to pump these loons with a cocktail of anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety meds and turn them loose with no consideration to the possible side effects.

Finally someone says something that makes sense.

The gun debate and CCW arguments are fucking pointless and a pathetic excuse for people to use a tragedy as a jumping off point for their political cause. The common thread with anyone who has shot up a school are mental health issues that existed before they got access to a gun. Start there fuckos.

Mr. Schwump · Post by **Mr. Schwump** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:04 pm

I'm still waiting for complete information on the murderer. If my suspicions are correct it will be something like what mvscal said. At the least post hoc reasoning would lead me to believe that a major reason why so few of these events happened in the past is the difference in the way we treat mentally ill people. We will never eliminate evil, but we need to take a long look at mental illness again.

dingus · Post by **dingus** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:30 pm

R-Jack wrote:
mvscal wrote: One thing that actually does bear examination is the way we diagnose and treat mental illness. Right now the state of the medical art is to pump these loons with a cocktail of anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety meds and turn them loose with no consideration to the possible side effects.
Finally someone says something that makes sense.

The gun debate and CCW arguments are fucking pointless and a pathetic excuse for people to use a tragedy as a jumping off point for their political cause. The common thread with anyone who has shot up a school are mental health issues that existed before they got access to a gun. Start there fuckos.

Well no shit genius. Find some guaranteed way to make sure that no one that's ever been diagnosed, treated, medicated for mental illnesses ever works his way into the general population and gets his hands on a gun(s) and I'm down. Until that fairy tale world happens, I think I'd like to take my chances with being able to protect myself or my kid's school being able to protect themselves with some weaponry. It's not a solution I'd prefer, but when crazy guy in his Darth Vader gear is walking down the hallway with a rifle, it doesn't make any goddamn difference what's gone on in his head in the past or at that moment-that horse is out the barn door.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:53 pm

M2 wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Really. Guns aren't the problem. Psychos are the problem.

and all psychos carry guns.

Starting to ring a bell yet idiot ???

Or let me rephrase it... "all gun owners are psychos".

If you feel the need to carry heat on your person... you've got some serious mental issues.

Yea...off-duty police officers, judges, etc have no real reason to carry. It's all up in their domes that they need protection. Nice take, Preston.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:12 pm

War Wagon wrote:
what?

the POTUS is sorta special and should have something to say about this. What kind of idiots world do you live in to say other wise?

We completely agree.

Sin,

Benghazi.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:33 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:Guns & barricades are not the solution here....

In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target. And even if they went to the range, they probably don't practice breaking leather (something most if not all ranges won't let you do on their lines). Effective training would require lots of training not only from the start, but ongoing training would also be a necessity.

This actually makes sense. Most concealed a carry classes are merely basic gun safety classes. Very little in tactical training or situational training. I train at a much higher level that a lot of concealed carry people. Go to tactical simulation training at least 4 times per year, range work about twice a month, private pistol and long gun competitions at least once per month during good weather, minimum 100 hundred round each time. I believe tactical training should be required for concealed carry holders.

The teachers simply aren't going to go for that.

Sure they would. They get all kinds of days off now for "continuing education" to improve their teaching skills to get at our 68% graduation rates. Another training requirement means more paid time off.

Secondly, suppose you did restrict entry to one point where there's one or two armed guards. Should the guards be defeated (not difficult), you've now given the suspects an easily defensible position. How are the police going to enter the building w/o being seen or detected? Not an easy situation to fix.

You and Wags get together this morning and hit a couple bowls of crack ? Explain how you would evacuate 500 kids and staff through one entrance in case of fire or "active shooter scenario "?(chokepoint ?)

Roach;
If POTUS didn't say anything, you folks would have said it was because the victims were white. A no-win situation.

And in case you hadn't noticed, the POTUS is seen by the public as a Comforter-in-Chief. Tell me you knew.

POTUS did not say jack fucking shit about Benghazi. Why start now? Comforter in Chief ??

Maybe to you liberal sorts he may be "comforting", but to me he is just another actor in front of the cameras, who is going to use this situation to advance his political agenda.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/president- ... 2U-;_ylv=3

Arch Angel · Post by **Arch Angel** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:06 pm

Their school like ours here in Eau Claire had lockdown in place before he entered and like their school had no guards, so no matter what you have done he would have gotten in.

I got an email from the schools (who I worked with a lot) that they are going to hire a security guard for each school and they will put sensors on all double paned windows if it shattered which will put all classrooms on locked down. It is a shame that our society has come to such measures. I went to school from 1971 and we never had an issue like that. The liberal society has killed this country and festered problemed kids who need help by trying to make them the same as normal kids plus no discipline as when mom and dads go to confront a teach, a lawyer is there with them.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:49 pm

Mace wrote:Wags is right. It's called leadership. The haters can go fuck themselves. He's the POTUS.

The pussies (Sup Roach) hate because he's also HNIC.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:56 pm

smackaholic wrote:Let's say you are batshit crazy wannabe mass murderer. Would you rather have a target with one easily identified defender or possibly dozens of unknown defenders?

If you're a batshit crazy wannabe mass murderer you probably don't give a fuck.

Really, though, it's all because we have systematically removed God from our schools. If they had been teaching Creation in this school, and saying their prayers, this and any other school massacrees would never have happened.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:01 pm

Arming teachers is a non-starter. Ain't gonna happen. I know a great many teachers and administrators who own guns, lots of them, but they won't be carrying them on their hip at school. They aren't trained like police officers and most wouldn't/shouldn't ever feel comfortable carrying in the classroom. Anyone carrying a gun that can be overpowered and have the weapon taken from them goes from protector to victim. If guns are needed at schools, they should be in the hands of trained law enforcement officers. They might not be able to keep a shooter from entering the building but they should have a good response time to any intruder and, at the least, minimize the death count and be a deterrent for most to even try. If they have a death wish, maybe they'll just stay home and blow their brains out.

The Sandy Hook shooter had two semi-automatics legally registered to his mother, btw, possibly to protect herself from her douchebag son. Hiring armed guards would be cost prohibitive to many schools, and a waste of tax dollars, imo, but may be a necessity in larger schools. That decision should be left to the local school districts, not the state or federal politicians whose primary interest is getting reelected, not protecting the public.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:09 pm

Pretty funny how people who on one day would like to see most teachers strung up on a gibbet because they,

Make too much money
Get too much vacation
Have ridiculous retirement benefits
Belong to a union
Vote Democrat
Always want more and more and more and more even though they're already overpaid worthless leeches

Suddenly it's a great idea to give them all guns so they can protect kids from crazy mass murderers.

Ponderous.

What if those armed to the teeth teachers decided to get together and go after Republicans?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:21 pm

Mace wrote:Hiring armed guards would be cost prohibitive to many schools, and a waste of tax dollars...

as opposed to 20 dead children?

to hell with the cost and if we're gonna' waste money, it may as well be on keeping them safe.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:30 pm

War Wagon wrote:
Mace wrote:Hiring armed guards would be cost prohibitive to many schools, and a waste of tax dollars...
as opposed to 20 dead children?

to hell with the cost and if we're gonna' waste money, it may as well be on keeping them safe.

Just stating the facts. Many small school districts cannot, and will not, hire armed guards. Larger districts might be able to find the funds to do so, and many already do, but I don't realistically see it happening in smaller districts. There will be a lot of new security rules implemented at most schools, just like after Columbine, but none of them will stop some idiot from doing this again.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:48 pm

Mace wrote:They aren't trained like police officers

I'm sure the kids' pet dogs are breathing a collective sigh of relief at that. Sorry if I'm not overly impressed at the state of police training.

And why do you people keep infantilizing everyone who isn't a LEO or military as if they're the only people in the world who are capable of defending themselves or others? It's a horseshit argument.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:52 pm

Derron wrote:
Diego in Seattle wrote:Guns & barricades are not the solution here....

In high stress-like events like this people tend to react to the lowest bar of their training. Simply shooting at paper targets isn't going to do much when the CCW owner is trying to engage a live & moving target. And even if they went to the range, they probably don't practice breaking leather (something most if not all ranges won't let you do on their lines). Effective training would require lots of training not only from the start, but ongoing training would also be a necessity.
This actually makes sense. Most concealed a carry classes are merely basic gun safety classes. Very little in tactical training or situational training. I train at a much higher level that a lot of concealed carry people. Go to tactical simulation training at least 4 times per year, range work about twice a month, private pistol and long gun competitions at least once per month during good weather, minimum 100 hundred round each time. I believe tactical training should be required for concealed carry holders.

The teachers simply aren't going to go for that.
Sure they would. They get all kinds of days off now for "continuing education" to improve their teaching skills to get at our 68% graduation rates. Another training requirement means more paid time off.

Secondly, suppose you did restrict entry to one point where there's one or two armed guards. Should the guards be defeated (not difficult), you've now given the suspects an easily defensible position. How are the police going to enter the building w/o being seen or detected? Not an easy situation to fix.
You and Wags get together this morning and hit a couple bowls of crack ? Explain how you would evacuate 500 kids and staff through one entrance in case of fire or "active shooter scenario "?(chokepoint ?)

Duhron;
The point about a chokepoint is the same one I'm making....only I pointed out that the chokepoint would hinder LE getting in as much as children getting out. Pay attention or work harder on your reading comprehension skills.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:55 pm

mvscal wrote:
Mace wrote:They aren't trained like police officers
I'm sure the kids' pet dogs are breathing a collective sigh of relief at that. Sorry if I'm not overly impressed at the state of police training.

And teachers are better trained in the use of firearms and self defense tactics?

And why do you people keep infantilizing everyone who isn't a LEO or military as if they're the only people in the world who are capable of defending themselves or others? It's a horseshit argument.

I haven't said there aren't non-cops or non-military types who can't defend themselves.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:06 pm

Mace wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Mace wrote:They aren't trained like police officers
I'm sure the kids' pet dogs are breathing a collective sigh of relief at that. Sorry if I'm not overly impressed at the state of police training.
And teachers are better trained in the use of firearms and self defense tactics?

And why do you people keep infantilizing everyone who isn't a LEO or military as if they're the only people in the world who are capable of defending themselves or others? It's a horseshit argument.
I haven't said there aren't non-cops or non-military types who can't defend themselves.

yeah, you pretty much implied that with this...

And teachers are better trained in the use of firearms and self defense tactics?

the whole point here is that a teacher with a gun that knows how to use it, beats the hell out of a cop with a gun 5 minutes away.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:08 pm

Mace wrote:And teachers are better trained in the use of firearms and self defense tactics?

Give them the training. They get three months off every year, right?

I haven't said there aren't non-cops or non-military types who can't defend themselves.

Oh, these types just don't include teachers. Is that what you were saying?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:10 pm

Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Let's say you are batshit crazy wannabe mass murderer. Would you rather have a target with one easily identified defender or possibly dozens of unknown defenders?
If you're a batshit crazy wannabe mass murderer you probably don't give a fuck.

They're crazy not stupid.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:14 pm

No, the whole point is that you're fucking stupid if you think teachers carrying guns in school would be a good idea....or that it will ever happen. Granted, there are teachers who know how to use a gun but, collectively, they are not trained to use a firearm. Sure, you can train them. Maybe the band teacher can hide his/her Glock in a tuba. :roll:

Teachers are not going to be carrying weapons to school. E.O.S. Get over it.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Mace wrote:No, the whole point is that you're fucking stupid if you think teachers carrying guns in school would be a good idea....

Yeah, I guess it's a better idea to have them shot to pieces trying to hide kids in a closet. That would be the sensible thing to do.

Granted, there are teachers who know how to use a gun

Then shut the fuck up and let them use it. Nobody ever said you have to arm every single teacher.