Seymour dealt to Raiders

[poptart]

Oakland got Seymour signed for two more years today.

This trade now looks a whole lot better from the Raider POV.

[Th]

Oakland got Seymour signed for two more years today.

This trade now looks a whole lot better from the Raider POV.

Seymour's presence certainly is missed up in NE. Now it's time for the Hoodie to cash in that chip he dealt for and find a pash rush again.

[BSmack]

Oakland got Seymour signed for two more years today.

This trade now looks a whole lot better from the Raider POV.

The Raiders gave him 23 million guaranteed for two years? They do realize he's 32? Right?

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Let's void Namdi's contract so that we can make Seymour the highest paid player in the NFL. This team is a total mess, but hey, what else is new?



(from ESPN: If reports are correct, the Oakland Raiders will make Richard Seymour the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.)

[poptart]

The Raiders gave him 23 million guaranteed for two years? They do realize he's 32? Right?

He's 31.

He made the Pro Bowl last season.

He's a team leader.
He WANTS to be a Raider.
It's not my money.

I'm very pleased to have him onboard for 2 more years.

Great player.

Haters will hate.

[DallasFanatic]

Gotta go with B on this one. Seymour is not worth that kind of money at this stage in his career. He's a good locker room presence and maybe that's what this Raiders team needs, but at that kind of coin? Just shows how desperate they are, or how messed up Al is.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

It's not my money.

This take doesn't make sense once there's a new cap in place. Do you really want to make Seymour the highest paid defensive player? It takes away from money that can be spent to shore up their many deficiencies.

[RJ]

Seymour is a fucking monster that any of you cats would take on your team in a heartbeat. Alot of dumbfucks up in this bitch who really havent seen his total body of work the last 2 seasons yet are feeling compelled to comment on it. In short, not only is he a great locker room presence, his commanding of double teams has meant the full realization of Tommy Kelly's "potential". Kelly was an absolute beast who dominated the line nearly every game due to Seymour's presence. Nevermind that even with the double teams Seymour still found a way to stop the run and get to the QB and cause tremendous pressure.

Oh, and all of the sudden our DB's have "developed" and look great....hmmm, could that be because of the pressure applied by the line?


Those of you using his age as an example of why he shouldnt get paid simply dont know what the fuck you're talking about. If NE finds a way to keep him, they beat the Jets and in all likelihood advance to the Super Bowl. He's that much of a game changer.


Great signing.

[poptart]

Well, you got the dumb and bitter combo workin' for ya, ucunt.

The Pats were on the hook for 18 million last season for V. Wilfork, pretty much a 2-down player.

Seymour might have gotten a little less than what Oakland paid him if he had gone on the open market, but you're a fool if you think someone else wouldn't have dished out some serious jack to him.

He's easily one of the very best defensive linemen in the league.


Ask KC fan if he relishes the idea of going against Seymour for 2 more years.

There are many things you can rightfully crack on Al Davis about.

Getting his best defensive player locked down isn't one of them.

[Bucmonkey]

If NE finds a way to keep him, they beat the Jets and in all likelihood advance to the Super Bowl. He's that much of a game changer.

Alrighty then.

[RJ]

Alrighty then.

Excellent take you skidmarked helmet.

What exactly leads you to beleive that a Wilfork/RS combo would allow Green/Crydanian to average 4.4 rushing yards per attempt? You do know they combined for 120 rush yards on only 27 atempts, with over 50% of those yards going straight up the middle where NE has sucked all season long, yes? With a final score of 28-21, im dead sure Seymour makes a huge difference on that line vs. the run and pressure on Sanchez as well. Him and Wilfork were a fuckload to handle for any team, and Patfan misses RS dearly-whether they want to admit it or not.


Now sit down and shut the fuck up, toolbox-adults are talking football.

[poptart]

Crunching the numbers, one can see that over Seymour's eight seasons in NE, they gave up an average of 4.06 yds per carry.

In the two seasons which he's been gone, they've given up 4.3 per carry.

You can't really spin away from the fact that he's been missed there.


Let's see what NE gets out of this year's #17 overall pick.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Well, you got the dumb and bitter combo workin' for ya, ucunt.

The Pats were on the hook for 18 million last season for V. Wilfork, pretty much a 2-down player.

And they're on the hook for less than one million in 2011, so tell me moron, is there a point you're attempting to make here? For a mere 10 million dollars more, the Patriots have Wilfork for 3 more years than Raiders have Seymour.

[poptart]

I forgive you.

I'd try to move the goal post, too, if I had produced a take that was now expanding my colon.

Your take was that Oakland was fucking itself with the Seymour contract because it would hinder them from using money elsewhere to improve the team.

I told you to look no futher than your own team, which had big money tied up in Wilfork and Brady in 2010.
They went 14-2.

Such situations are found ALL over the league.
It's nearly universal.
Teams have BIG jack tied up in a couple/few players.

People want to come in here and take knee-jerk shots at Al Davis because they think he's an easy target, but they are overplaying that hand in this case.

If anything, Al deserves credit here.
He's locked down his MOST important free agent FIRST - and now will fill in around the edges.


Good job, Al!

Improve the team while at the same time prompting message board slappies to post shit takes for Raider fan to laff at.

Wins all the way around.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

You're leaving a very important word out of my original take, dumbfuck.

I told you to look no futher than your own team, which had big money tied up in Wilfork and Brady in 2010.
They went 14-2.

And what deficiencies did this playoff team have the year before that prevented them from signing players? Furthermore, you can forget whatever money Brady is being paid compared to Seymour. As the best player in the NFL, he deserves to get paid. By contrast, Seymour, and his 36 solo tackles and 5.5 sacks is not worth 15 million/year. At 32 years old (for most of the season, asshat, don't think I didn't see that epic flail on your "correction")... he may not be worth 5 million/year. But you losers overpaid... as per usual.

Furthermore, are you really contributing 4.06 yards per carry during Seymour's 8 seasons there all to him? Are you really that dense? There's a whole lot of players who made that number happen who haven't been there the last two years... Harrison. Bruschi. Johnson. McGinest. Vrabel.

[mvscal]

Seymour is a fucking monster that any of you cats would take on your team in a heartbeat.

Is he the best defensive player in the league? Is he in the top ten? Is he even the best defensive player on his own team?

His ability isn't the issue here. The issue is the stupid amount of money that the braindead zombie you have running your shit team threw at him.

[poptart]

You predictable idiots crack me up.

If Al let Seymour walk you'd be all up in this bitch blabbering about what a fuck up he is.

Ucunt, if you think Seymour may not be worth 5 million next season you belong in a mental hospital.
Yes, mvscal, Seymour might be one of the top 10 defensive players in the league.

List the defensive players in the AFC West who are better.

James knows the deal, as I do - because we follow the team closely.
We know Seymour's value.

No, ucunt, the Pats falling off in stopping the run isn't ALL because Seymour is gone, but it is what it is.
You lost a valuable piece.
That's why Oakland gave you a #17 overall pick.

[BSmack]

...if you think Seymour may not be worth 5 million next season you belong in a mental hospital.

You do realize that 23 mil guaranteed for two years is a hell of a lot more than 5 million a year?

[poptart]

Don't ask me why he's say something that dumb.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Don't ask me why he's say something that dumb.

I think Seymour is less valuable than Wilfork, that's why I threw out 5 million. However, it's not an exact figure. This "2 down player" somehow racked up more tackles than Seymour and he attracks more attention than Seymour. To reiterate, I'll take Wilfork's 5 year 40 million contract over Seymour's 2 year 30 million all day long.

In addition, speaking of stupidity... you're the dumbfuck who actually thinks all of Wilfork's 18 million dollar signing bonus counted against the cap in 2010.

Do you want to know what the cap hit for Wilfork was in 2010? Try googling it yourself. If you can't find, I'll post it before you officially retire I totally run you.

[poptart]

In addition, speaking of stupidity... you're the dumbfuck who actually thinks all of Wilfork's 18 million dollar signing bonus counted against the cap in 2010.

Do you want to know what the cap hit for Wilfork was in 2010? Try googling it yourself. If you can't find, I'll post it before you officially retire I totally run you.

You're really a nutjob, aren't you?

Wilfork came in at #11 on Forbes' list of the highest paid players in 2010 - 20.6 millon dollars.
http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... d-players/

Now teams can dick around in a variety of ways to make things work under the cap in a given year.
We all know that.

Perhaps Wilfork's cap hit will be 14.5 million next season.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

lol

Who really gives a fuck how they time it?

The point remains.
Teams all over the league have one or a couple of guys who are raking in big money in a given year.
Guys who slice away at a team's cap number.

Seymour will take a chunk out of Oakland's number in '11.
He's the most valuable defensive player on the team and if anyone should rightfully take a good chunk, it's him.

Again, slam Davis for pissing away big money on guys like Javon Walker or MeAngelo Hall, but busting his balls over getting Seymour done makes you a top drawer iodot.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Wilfork came in at #11 on Forbes' list of the highest paid players in 2010 - 20.6 millon dollars.
http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... d-players/

I said CAP HIT. You know, the metric that would actually prevent them from signing someone else?

His 2010 cap hit was 4.6 million according to your next link:

Perhaps Wilfork's cap hit will be 14.5 million next season.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

14.4 million in 2011 if he's cut or traded. Try reading your own link next time, dumbfuck.

[poptart]

The 14.5 million cap hit is something the Pats can't escape from.
That WILL be taking away from their cap space.
They also can't escape from the other 5 million which is on their books over the next two seasons.

In Seymour's case, Oakland is confident in what they will get from him over the next two years.
He's not injured and he played at a pro bowl level last season.
They are paying for the performance that they can reasonably expect for two more years.
Then they are done with it.
He will not take anything from their cap space beyond 2012 - and by not having to use their franchise tag on a high price guy right now (as most teams end up needing to do) they have allowed themselves to use the tag on a lower price guy NOW, likely saving them current space under the cap.

In 2012 the Pats will be GUARANTEED to see 9 million of cap space eaten away by Wilfork, even if he is not on the team.
Then in 2013, and and again in 2014, the Pats will be GUARANTEED to see 3.6 million of cap space eaten away by Wilfork - even if he is not on the team.
And if he IS on the team, those numbers rise to 10 million and 11 million.

Remind me again how much the Raiders will be paying R. Seymour in 2013 and 2014.

har har

Wilfork is a big fella.
That's code for FAT.

Being on the hook for pretty substantial amount of GUARANTEED jack 3 and 4 years down the road -- with a fattie like Wilfork -- might end up being not too friendly to your precious cap space.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

The 14.5 million cap hit is something the Pats can't escape from.
That WILL be taking away from their cap space.

What are you talking about? Wilfork's 2011 cap hit is his 1/5 signing bonus (3.6 million) + base salary (765,000) + workout bonus (100,000) + weight bonus (135,000). That's 4.6 million. Where are you getting 14.5 million from?

SIGNING BONUS - $18 million

•BASE SALARIES ($20.015 Million)
•2010: $750,000*
•2011: $765,000*
•2012: $4.5 Million*
•2013: $6.5 Million
•2014: $7.5 Million
•* -- guaranteed

•WEIGHT BONUSES ($1.185 Million)
•2010: $150,000
•2011: $135,000
•2012: $300,000
•2013: $300,000
•2014: $300,000

•WORKOUT BONUSES ($800,000)
•2010: $100,000
•2011: $100,000
•2012: $200,000
•2013: $200,000
•2014: $200,000

[poptart]

His signing bonus can not be avoided.

As I said, who really gives a fuck how they time it?

That 14.5 million hit on their cap will be happening.

I broke it down in my last post.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Spread out over 4 years... so what? From 2006 to 2009 the cap went up 7 million every year. So counting for inflation, we should expect the cap to move 30 million dollars at a minimum over the next 4 years, right? This means whatever Wilfork's cap hit for a given year will be "felt" less and less as time goes by. This is probably why New England backloaded his cap hit towards the latter half of the contract. 9 million the first 2 years (a mere 4.6 million in 2011) and 31 million the last 3. Either way, during any given year, it's less than Seymour's 15 million, is it not?

Furthermore, during his 7 year career, Wilfork has missed 6 games. Over that same span Seymour has missed 16. What were you saying before about durability?

Do you ever tire of getting trounced? Make a valid point, for the love of God.

Wearing a lousy leather helmet whilst playing in traffic hasn't served you well during your golden year, eh pops?

[poptart]

Guessing what the future caps will be right now, with the current labor situation, prolly isn't wise.
But since '94, the cap has risen by 5.8 million a year.

Stringing the signing bonus along year-by-year can go either way - help a team or hurt a team.

If Wilfork stays healthy and continues to play strong ball, those later year numbers should be just fine for the Pats.

But if something bad happens along the way - and he is cut, injured, or his play falls off - the future guaranteed money bites you in the ass.

Oakland has no future (past this year and next) money hanging over their head with Seymour.

I guess we can revisit this thread a year from now and see how it worked out for the Raiders.
Then again two years later.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Stringing the signing bonus along year-by-year can go either way - help a team or hurt a team.

Do you actually think there's a decision involved in this? You really need to read up on the salary cap rules.

[poptart]

Of course there is a decision. lol

I've been pointing out the advantages of signing a guy to a shorter contract - as Oakland did with Seymour.
Two years as opposed to five.

Not only will NE be hit with the 3.6 million signing bonus hit against the cap in 2013 - even if Wilfork is not on the team, but the 3.6 million for '14 will also hit you that year - for a total of 7.2 million against the cap in '13 - for a guy who isn't even balling for you, if it should happen that he isn't.

That'd be a helluva kick in the nuts.
Hope fatass stays in good condition for you.

A five year (stringing the bonus out) contract has some risks that a two year doesn't.


I have no doubt that Seymour WANTED a longer deal done.
Oakland didn't want the risk that comes with a longer deal - especially for a guy over 30.
They paid him MORE for two years (he would have gotten less per year, say with a 3 or 4 year deal), but avoid the risk that, for example, NE is taking with Wilfork.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I've been pointing out the advantages of signing a guy to a shorter contract - as Oakland did with Seymour.
Two years as opposed to five.

How many quality (see also, franchise tagged) players get only two year deals after they're finally eligible to hit free agency? Seymour got the shorter deal because he's older and not very durable. Wilfork got the longer deal because he's younger and has a track record of durability. They will both be about 34 years old at the end of their current deals. Over the course of the contract (assuming they pay the full 5), the Patriots are paying roughly half per year of what the Raiders are paying Seymour. Seriously dude, can you even remember what your point is... besides the fact that 15 million/year for an aging, broken down, once great player is called overfuckingpaying?

2 years/30 million > 5 years 40 million. This is not even debatable.

Good day.

.
.
.
.

All right, we'll call it a draw.

Come, Patsy.

Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastard! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!!

[poptart]

the fact that 15 million/year for an aging, broken down, once great player is called overfuckingpaying?

Seymour is broken down?

Link?


Once great?

He made the pro bowl last season.

lol

I'm pretty sure you didn't see him play much.
I did.
I saw 13 of the 16 Raider games last season.
Guy was a GREAT player last season.

assuming they pay the full 5

Yes, you are assuming Wilfork will play the full 5 as you carry on in this thread.

If he does, and he plays well, it's a good contract for the Pats.

If not ... lube up.


Yes, 15 million a year (for 2 years) is a very heavy couple of years.
No doubt about that.
I don't argue that point at all.

Contracts are like the draft.
You can't properly evaluate them until they play out some.

So I'll be glad to pull this thread up one year later.
And then two years later.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I saw 13 of the 16 Raider games last season.

And how many did Seymour actually play? All 13... much like yourself, he missed 3 games. How many of his lousy 36 tackles did he make?

If he's so great, how come this guy didn't get a sniff for Defensive Player of the year in 2010? In 2009? In 2008? In 2007? If he's really a top 10 player as you suggest, how come he hasn't received any of the accolades his peers have gotten? He hasn't even received ONE LOUSY VOTE during this time and you think that makes him worthy of being the highest paid defensive player in the NFL?

Wilfork's money doesn't even compare. Even if New England only gets 3 years out of him, at 25 million guaranteed... that's still an average of 8.33 million per year that they're paying for actual on the field performance. Again, how is that a bad thing compared to Seymour's deal? Nevermind that their average cap hit over the 5 years would only be 5 million (against a higher team cap number every year to boot.)

Heck, even if they only get 2 years out of him, that's 12.5 million/year... which the last time I checked, is still less than 15 million.

I am laying out worst case scenarios for you, not best case. And Wilfork's deal is still better for New England. You are totally fucked in the head. Is this math really too much for you to overcome? Do you need me to draw you pictures in order for you to "get it?"

[DallasFanatic]

There's nothing wrong with making Seymour the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

Sin,

[BSmack]

The Raiders just gave Standford Routt a 3 year 31 million dollar deal. It appears that at least 20 million of that is guaranteed.

[Bucmonkey]

I thought pops was done commenting on the raids?

[poptart]

How many of his lousy 36 tackles did he make?

You keep chirping about Seymour's numbers, and I don't know if it'd be possible for you to look more ridiculous.

2010: 36 tackles, 12 assists, 5.5 sacks

Pretty modest - on paper.

But look at his numbers for the 3 seasons he made first team all-pro.

2003: 35 tackles, 20 assists, 8 sacks
2004: 25 tackles, 15 assists, 5 sacks
2005: 36 tackles, 11 assists, 4 sacks



You fucking idiot.


I told you, 'tard, I SAW the games and I SAW what was going on.

Seymour was often double teamed - which allowed for other guys to get off - Tommy Kelly, for example, who had a terrific season.
The Raider front four was tough to handle and Seymour is the engine.
The Raiders were 2nd in the league in sacks.
Seymour is the engine.

2008, before he arrived, they were 27th in the league in defense.
Last season they were 11th.
He's THE center piece.
He is the engine.

I really don't give half a shit what Wilfork's contract is.
Couldn't care less, frankly.

Al has a long history of paying out big jack to guys.
But sadly, he's often given it out to slappies.

This time he gave it out to a guy who is, right now, critically important to the team.

Fine by me.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I really don't give half a shit what Wilfork's contract is.
Couldn't care less, frankly.

If you could not possibly care less, then how come you brought his name into this thread with your first of many dumbassed responses to me?

Of course, you stepped on your dick by saying New England was 'on the hook' for 18 million last year when it was only 4.7... and it's been all downhill from there. Remind what, exactly, you've gotten correct in this thread?

[War Wagon]

...it's been all downhill from there.

this thread went downhill when it hit page 2... wtf are you dorks arguing about again?

Nevermind.

make no mistake, you are dorks.

[poptart]

Of course, you stepped on your dick by saying New England was 'on the hook' for 18 million last year when it was only 4.7

lol

His signing bonus was 18 million, and as clarified a number of times - it can't be avoided.

The only reason he counted for just 4.7 million last season was because NE has chosen to feel the pain later - when they might very well be dishing out significant money for a guy who isn't even playing.

That's the risk they have chosen to take.

Oakland is paying big NOW for performance they feel very confident they will get.


We've already gone around in circles now a couple of times.

The deal is done.
I like it.
You don't.

Oh well.

Remind what, exactly, you've gotten correct in this thread?

So says the 'tard who claims Seymour is a broken down player - and cites D-Line stats as a way to denegrate him, but has now been shown that very similar numbers were put up by the guy during his three first team all-pro seasons.

Oops.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

His signing bonus was 18 million, and as clarified a number of times - it can't be avoided.

Yes, I know that.

it can't be avoided.

Neither can the other 7 million that is guaranteed. See, you should just stop here. But it's dick stepping time, eh?

The only reason he counted for just 4.7 million last season was because NE has chosen to feel the pain later - when they might very well be dishing out significant money for a guy who isn't even playing..

They did not CHOOSE to 'feel the pain later.' They CHOSE to pay him an 18 million dollar signing bonus. How and when it gets counted against their cap is not a choice. It's determined by the NFL's salary cap rules, you complete fucking imbecile. How many times are you going to fuck this up?