Does ND belong in a BCS bowl?

[RadioFan]

Sweet. Maybe I should start MY own championship.

I'll call it "Dinsdale's NATIONAL Championship."

Excellent.


But dudes ... don't let this discussion of the AP vs. BCS "championships" get in the way of TV asshats ('sup Cuntsberger?), who routinely interchange/add the two as if they were the same when it comes to USC or any other team they happen to be felching at the moment, for the sake of uttering a "dramatic" and "insightful" comment ... err, hyperbole.

[Goober McTuber]

It was a great year for them. Let it go. Because I sure the fuck won't until you do, since the USC collective(the fanbase, really) are being piss-poor representives of the greatest conference in the history of college athletics.

When did USC join the Big 10? There goes the fucking neighborhood.

[Vito Corleone]

I posted ND's BCS resume in another thread, using a format Shoalzie had devised (for the purpose of evaluating other teams, not ND, btw). Here it is:

Opponents' winning percentage (so far): .5396
Point differential: +120
Wins vs. Teams with 8 or more wins: 4 (Georgia Tech, Penn State, Purdue, Navy)
Wins vs. Teams .500 or better: 5 (See above, UCLA)
Losses: #3 Michigan (11-1), #2 USC (10-1)

I'd say that's probably BCS material.

Not to mention that under the rules currently in effect, 3 of the Top 12 teams (Wisconsin, Auburn and the loser of the Florida-Arkansas game) are eliminated from BCS consideration. Also, ND is within striking distance of the Top 8, which would make them an automatic qualifier. If Arkansas and Louisville lose, ND should finish in the Top 8, unless they're leapfrogged by Auburn (idle, but only trails ND by .0081 points, I suppose that differential could be made up by strength of schedule changes as a result of next week's games) or Oklahoma (playing Nebraska for Big 12 championship). For that matter, if either Arkansas or Louisville loses, ND possibly still could get into the Top 8 if a few human pollsters change their votes between ND and Boise State, which at this point wouldn't even penalize Boise State's BCS chances. So you never know.

The only intellectually honest option to knock ND out of a BCS bid, as a practical matter, is Louisville, and then only if both Louisville and Rutgers win. Given the difference in tradition and drawing power between the two teams, however, I don't think there's any contest between the two as a final BCS selection. The only realistic option for ND being left out of the BCS is if, as I posted in another thread, Cal winds up in the Top 14, which could happen under the right turn of events, and USC plays in the BCS championship game. In that scenario, the Rose Bowl could take Cal as its second pick, and the Sugar Bowl could take the Big East champion and gamble that the Orange Bowl will reward the Sugar's "home" conference by taking LSU over ND. If Georgia Tech wins the ACC championship game, that could be a pretty good bet, given that Georgia Tech and ND already played this year. But then the BCS would have passed over a 2-loss Notre Dame team for a 3-loss Cal team that lost to the #5 team in the SEC and an unranked mid-pack Pac-10 team, in addition to one of the teams that beat ND.

ND deserves a BCS bid, under all of the circumstances, imho.

Notre Dame can prove they deserve to be there by winning their game, if they lose in the same mannor they did last year then it will be obvious they were frauds from the beginning.

[Goober McTuber]

Or (3) Notre Dame being consistently overrated.

[Dumbass]

The day that USC recognizes Auburn as the co-champ for 2004 is the day I recognize USC as the co-champ for 2003.





made my own thread go off topic

Bwahahaha!

That's funny.

Um, The Irish are done and should be. It is a shame another team will have to play them. They are no measuring stick for teams at this level. They have been worked by the 2 they have played, they do not deserve a 3rd. All it is is another opportunity for redemption and to show case Muffberger's next Unitas again. If they lose, nobody cares because The BC knows either everyone is tuning in to watch them comeback or to get their faced kicked in and afterwards, we'll still all talk about it.

If they win? Whoa, so they finally found some scud they could beat. Some scud they helped get there with their now apparent over rated number.

Who cares? Gimme one more win and another shot in the final. Even though it still sucks, the night vs Texas was great, what a game/night.

If SC sees OSU, this is The Rose Bowl for everything and I just wanna see it.

FIGHT ON!!!

[Jimmy Medalions]

I'm looking for a way out of looking stupid here, can you help me out? Thanks.

Missed the point, I see.

Yes, you did.

[Terry in Crapchester]

All it is is another opportunity for redemption and to show case Muffberger's next Unitas again.

Burnt Cheeseburger won't be calling Notre Dame's bowl game, unless ND winds up in the Rose Bowl. Just sayin'.

[Killian]

On the surface, ND looks like they deserve a BCS shot. They're 10-2 with their two loses being to the #2 and #3 teams in the BCS. MOV was taken out as a factor, so that shouldn't be discussed when determining ND's BCS ranking. They have victories over 5 bowl bound teams and played a total of 7. So on paper, their resume appears that they deserve a spot.

But they don't. The offensive line is full of pussies who couldn't knock a JV team off the ball and their linebackers can't cover for shit or wrap up. Their Dline has 3 guys that will earn NFL paychecks, yet they can't get consistant pressure on the QB. Their best running back is a starting outside linebacker, and their starter at RB runs out of bounds more than Franco Harris.

The only players on offense who acts like they gives a shit are Quinn, Young, Carlson, Morton (he blows) and sometimes Samardzija. Their DC runs a system that leads to more confusion than control, and has players still checking their wristbands at the time of the snap.

Honestly, if they get invited to a BCS game I think they will come out flat and get their ass kicked in the first half of the game.

Luckily, recruiting is going very well so after next season, there will be no disscusions as to if ND belongs in the BCS.

A new DC, DL and special teams coaches would be a great start, too.

[Killian]

next season, there will be no disscusions as to if ND belongs in the BCS.

Many people would agree with you, but for different reasons. :P

Oh no, we'll all agree for the same reasons. ND is going to struggle next year. Struggle might be an understatement. I think a great season will be 8-4. New QB, new Oline (that's actually good), new WR's, new dline, new secondary.

Yeah, ND is going to be playing a lot of young guys because Willingham left the roster in shambles. There will be 8 seniors next year, 2 start and 1 other sees meaningful minutes. No olineman in the entire class.

Fuck you very much, Ty.

[Terry in Crapchester]

On the surface, ND looks like they deserve a BCS shot. They're 10-2 with their two loses being to the #2 and #3 teams in the BCS. MOV was taken out as a factor, so that shouldn't be discussed when determining ND's BCS ranking. They have victories over 5 bowl bound teams and played a total of 7. So on paper, their resume appears that they deserve a spot.

But they don't. The offensive line is full of pussies who couldn't knock a JV team off the ball and their linebackers can't cover for shit or wrap up. Their Dline has 3 guys that will earn NFL paychecks, yet they can't get consistant pressure on the QB. Their best running back is a starting outside linebacker, and their starter at RB runs out of bounds more than Franco Harris.

The only players on offense who acts like they gives a shit are Quinn, Young, Carlson, Morton (he blows) and sometimes Samardzija. Their DC runs a system that leads to more confusion than control, and has players still checking their wristbands at the time of the snap.

I get the frustration here. Having said that, however, the offensive production this year is remarkably similar to last year's. It seems like a disappointment, though, because expectations were so much higher this year.

In many respects, this team is remarkably similar to last year's, and that holds true for BCS possibilities as well. What people on this board have focused on is the fact that this year's losses have been blowouts, but as you pointed out, MOV is not a factor in BCS rankings anymore. The blowout losses, together with the late-season loss (the result of a scheduling quirk in the USC series, are the only real differences between last year and this year.

On defense, I agree that the lack of pressure from the DL, given the talent we have at that position, is frustrating. Our LB's have played well considering that we start a converted RB, a converted OLB out of position in the middle, and a guy who didn't step up to claim the third position until about 2/3 of the season was gone. But anytime a safety (Ndukwe) is your leading tackler, that's not a good sign. Once again, our secondary is the team's Achilles' heel. File that one under Same shit, different year. I think I'd sell both my son and daughter to gypsies if, in exchange, ND was able to land a shutdown corner just once in my lifetime.

I think Minter has to go, if only because the defense is not showing signs of improvement like it should. But then again, it's not entirely on him -- the talent in the secondary just isn't there.

Honestly, if they get invited to a BCS game I think they will come out flat and get their ass kicked in the first half of the game.

I hope you're wrong about this. Certainly, if we wind up playing Florida, the opportunity to play against Meyer (who spurned ND in no small part because he thought he had a better chance to win right away at Florida) should be bulletin-board type incentive for our kids. I can deal with being out-talented (which may very well be the case, at least if Florida is our opponent), but I don't want to see us come out flat. That one has to be on the coaching staff if it happens.

Speaking of which, there were two things that frustrated ND fan prior to Weis. Weis has managed to solve, more or less, one part of the equation, in that ND now rarely loses to teams we should beat. Yes, you'll always fall victim to the occasional upset (as ND did under Weis vs. Michigan State in '05), but that is nowhere near the commonplace occurrence under Weis that it once was. The second part of the equation, however, is something that Weis has completely struck out on to date: pulling off the occasional minor miracle. A major part of ND's football lore has been built upon the foundation of ND as giant-killer, which is where ND, at least traditionally, always was at its best. Under Weis, however, we've only won once against a higher-ranked team at the time (Pitt in the '05 opener, although many people felt that Pitt was overrated and ND underrated at the beginning of '05). The last time ND beat a team that finished ranked higher than ND was Tennessee in '04.

Four of the five losses under Weis have come against teams ranked no lower than #4 in the final BCS poll. No shame in that, but if Weis wants to become a true legend as ND's coach, he's going to have to figure out a way to win at least some of those games. In that regard, the Sugar Bowl provides an excellent starting point at this juncture.

[Killian]

I see what you're saying Terry, but the kids don't give a shit about Meyer. I've heard from more than one person, that this team feels like there is nothing to gain because they can't win the NC. To fans and alumni, this seems absurd. They can end the bowl losing streak and silence some of the critics along the way.

But this team was gearing up for a NC run and it didn't happen. I fear that they will come out listless and not give a shit and by the time they wake up, it will be 24-3.

[Terry in Crapchester]

the bowl losing streak

How many years?

ND's last bowl win was the Cotton Bowl following the '93 season. Since then, ND did not play in a bowl game in '96 (declined two invitations), '99, '01 and '03 (not eligible in those seasons). So if my math is correct, that means eight straight bowl losses.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I see what you're saying Terry, but the kids don't give a shit about Meyer.

I'm quite sure that if Meyer had gone to ND instead of Florida, Trixie would have had this matchup on his wishlist ever since the Michigan loss. Not that Trixie is determinative of Florida's program, of course.

I've heard from more than one person, that this team feels like there is nothing to gain because they can't win the NC. To fans and alumni, this seems absurd. They can end the bowl losing streak and silence some of the critics along the way.

In a sense, the bowl losing streak shouldn't mean anything to this team -- after all, no one on this team is responsible for the bulk of it. Then again, history is at least as important, if not moreso, at ND than at anyplace else. As long as the media continues to bring it up, it's a cloud over the program. Best way to put it behind is to win a bowl game.

But this team was gearing up for a NC run and it didn't happen. I fear that they will come out listless and not give a shit and by the time they wake up, it will be 24-3.

On this board, you have people (a little more respected than m2, at least) saying that only a homer would put ND in their Top 10 right now. I realize the football team isn't reading this board, but if they have even the slightest idea that some people are saying that, you would think that would provide some motivation to prove the critics wrong.