There are no moral victories: Bullshit!

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:59 am

Fresno St just earned one.

Yeah, their killer bulldog of a coach won't admit it and neither will the FSU players but Fresno St elevated their program tonight and they deserve all the credit in the world for what they accomplished in what turned out to be a losing effort.

Those fuckers simply would not give in, and they had ample opportunities to fold their tent. USC's special teams and their myriad defensive lapses sure contributed to keeping FSU alive but goddammit FSU had about a half dozen opportunities there in the second half to lay down and die and let it become the usual rout but they simply refused to accept the avalanche that would've landed on most teams who found themselves in those same spots.

Seriously, who here isn't a fan of Pat Hill right about now? If you're a very good California recruit who nevertheless can't quite make it to USC, Miami, Texas, OSU or other programs of that high ilk tell me you wouldn't now seriously consider taking a long hard look at Fresno State...

I think you would, and certainly moreso than you would've twenty four hours ago.

That sure as hell was a victory in so many ways for a gallant FSU program. They lost this specific battle but they won their personal war and isn't that the true measure of a moral victory?

Oh, and btw, I'd say it's safe to say that absolutely ridiculous fucking performance from Reggie Bush just leapfrogged him back over Leinart and maybe Young too.

Did you people see what that freak did..and then did again...and again...and again? I've been watching CF for thirty plus years now and I don't think I've ever seen a more explosive performance. I don't think I've ever seen a college player who's more of a real danger to go the distance every time he touches the ball, from anywhere on the field, no matter how bottled up he seems to be.

Among football players period Bo Jackson with the Raiders comes to mind, and Barry Sanders with Detroit.

Barry Bonds, when he's in one of his zones...

Reggie Bush is like that. Every time he touches the ball and makes that first cut you're on the edge of your seat. If he beats that first wave of attackers and either splits the gap or makes the edge it's instantly a case of...oh fuck...oh fuck....THERE IT IS!!!!

When the defense occasionally actually manages to corral him for a mere (spectacular as hell) six yard gain it's almost a surprise and it's....yes, a moral victory.

Screw Lienart and screw Young. Regardless of his individual stats in any given week it ought to be plainly obvious by now to each and every one of us that Reggie Bush is far and away the best skill position player in CF. I won't say he's the best football player period because there are linemen and linebackers and DBs who might be every bit as good at what they do as Reggie is at what he does but since we all know the Heisman is strictly an award given to the best skill position player who plays for a successful glamour program then Reggie has to be your Heisman winner this year.

His talent and his play simply dwarf those of Leinart or Young. Aside from the stats just trust your own two eyes...

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:31 pm

As a PSU fan of course looking for a USC loss and the ensuing PSU Rose Bowl berth, I went to bed after halftime when USC/Bush turned on the jets. To me, it was a foregone conclusion that USC would then win.

After what I saw in those first few minutes of the second half, for FSU to hang with, AND LEAD USC again speaks absolute volumes. Holy hell, major props to FSU.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:43 pm

I was certainly hoping for FSU to play giant-killer. imagine if this game had been played at Fresno State!

Bush is amazing. Young has certainly blossomed, but I'd vote for Bush without a single reservation after that incredible performance.

It's too bad that FSU isn't a member of the Pac-10 - they'd surely be in the upper tier. It'll be harder for their AD to get folks to play in his place, for sure.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:24 pm

Too bad David Carr wasn't around for this team. Prior to the game over here they showed a replay of the Freedom Bowl where Trent Dilfer and company beat Knob Johnson and that uninspired SC team.

Reggie Bush is clearly an NFL player on loan to SC. I knew Fresno's outside defenders couldn't contain him but am surprised how they moved the ball so well. SC lost a few DB's and FS worked on that angle. Too much beer and I fell asleep in the 4th quarter. I woke up at 1 AM.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:15 am

Too bad the Pac10 isn't expanding, there is only so much you can do in a non-BCS program. Pat Hill will jump sooner or later, maybe it will be to Neb if BC flubs in 06.

Pat Hill would have been a much better hire than Willingham or Zook this past offseason. I'm not sure which BCS-teams will be looking this offseason, it could be interesting. How long can guys like Hill, Price, and Patterson go without getting their shot?

socal · Post by **socal** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:33 am

Concur.

Here's hoping UCLA plays with even half of Fresno State's nad.

BTW I'm all for moving the NFL draft up to November 28th. Pay Leinert, Bush, and White their first round money already.

:wink:

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:53 pm

When you turn the ball over five times and lose by eight points, then no, there are no moral victories for your team.

For all of Reggie Bush's brilliance, FSU pretty much gave the game away. Pinegar's goal line INT on the overused in-route was especially killer.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:20 pm

Why, that's a rather negative view of things...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:41 pm

Van, have you ever actually watched college football before?

Because you sure the fuck are sounding like someone who just jumped on the bandwagon.

This great "moral victory" you speak of is the exact same thing that has been a characteristic of every FSU team in recent memory, be it under Hill or Tedford. Just because you were suprised by what you saw, it was no suprise to those of us who actually watch CFB when our team-de-jour isn't playing.

And yeah, if I was a big recruit, I'd definitely take FSU over a program from, say....a real conference. "Well, FSU didn't get shredded by USC tooooo badly on SC's worst day, so I guess it's a no-brainer."

Troll on, Van.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:09 pm

Sweet...

Dins pops in out of the blue and what's he do? He asks me if I've ever watched CF before, and then he even mentions trolling.

Woo. That's some serious balls.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:32 pm

Dude, I won't speak for anyone else here, but in my eyes, and I'd guess the eyes of every CFB fan here, or at least the ones hailing from the western half of the country, you're looking like quite the tool right now.

Some almost-top-notch recruit is suddenly going to consider FSU because of last night's game?

Since there's no way on Dins' Green Earth that you can be serious, you must be trolling.

Since last night's was a :bigshock: to you, I'll help you out -- Fresno has been lauded as the scrappiest, "heart-est" team in CFB for many, many, many years. Whether under Tedford or Hill, they bring it week in and week out like no other.

Now, see if you can follow -- just because YOU just found this out last night, it doesn't mean that you can safely assume that the almost-blue-chip recruits of the western US did. They, along with most of the other CFB fans, have known this for many years.

Don't get me wrong, I am somewhat jealous -- I've been into CFB for a long time, and I only wish I could go back to the day when everything was new, and I saw sports through the eyes of a child. But alas, having seen FSU play for...oh, I dunno...like the last 15-20 years, this wasn't the case.

And as far as your other idiotic assertions that losing a nationally televised night game is somehow going to improve recruiting (memo to Van: Brain, and THEN keyboard....Brain, THEN keyboard), remind me again -- how has Fresno done against the PAC10, who you're so convinced is now going to lose recruits to that Mecca of culture, Fresno? I mean sure, if I was a highly touted recruit, I know I'd set my sights on a school that has no chance at winning the championship, since the tradeoff for living in Fresno would certainly be worth it, but I doubt all of the kids will see it that way.

Troll on, Van.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:15 pm

Dins, the mere fact that FSU was ON national TV playing well against #1 USC is the greatest recruiting tool in the world for FSU, since they rarely get on national TV at all, much less against a #1 ranked team.

Then again you're too busy baiting like a Dungeons & Dragons cunt again so it never occured to you to stop and maybe noodle through something so simple...

A top tier California recruit who can get into USC, UCLA or Notre Dame, obviously he's still not going to look too seriously at FSU. It's that second tier guy, the guy who probably barely even knew FSU existed before Saturday night's game, the guy who in the past might've taken a look at an Oregon State or a Baylor, it's that guy who might've for the very first time awoken to the possibility of staying at home to play for an up and coming program like FSU.

Dins, really, go back to trolling the generic smack boards with your lame kneejerk attacks. Your tired adolescent schoolyard pitbull act isn't needed here.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:45 pm

I have to go along with Dinsdale on this one. I’m guessing that most second tier recruits in California are going to be very aware of all of the second tier programs in their state.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:04 pm

Van wrote: It's that second tier guy, the guy who probably barely even knew FSU existed before Saturday night's game, the guy who in the past might've taken a look at an Oregon State or a Baylor, it's that guy who might've for the very first time awoken to the possibility of staying at home to play for an up and coming program like FSU.

I laughed.

Sincerely,

Fresno State on the cover of SI four years ago.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:51 pm

Actually, I don't think that game was quite national. I don't recall it being on in this neck of the woods, or maybe I just missed it. It was a 10:15 start in the Eastern time zone, in any event, so that kind of hurts your odds of being carried here.

Just sayin'.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Actually, I don't think that game was quite national. I don't recall it being on in this neck of the woods, or maybe I just missed it. It was a 10:15 start in the Eastern time zone, in any event, so that kind of hurts your odds of being carried here.

Just sayin'.

I got it on the regional Fox Sports Net in Wisconsin.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:18 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:Actually, I don't think that game was quite national. I don't recall it being on in this neck of the woods, or maybe I just missed it. It was a 10:15 start in the Eastern time zone, in any event, so that kind of hurts your odds of being carried here.

Just sayin'.
I got it on the regional Fox Sports Net in Wisconsin.

FSN isn't part of our cable package. Also, Wisconsin is CST, IIRC.

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:00 am

Terry in Crapchester wrote:It was a 10:15 start in the Eastern time zone, in any event, so that kind of hurts your odds of being carried here.

Just sayin'.

Precisely why west coast schools should never do night games.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:35 am

Degenerate wrote:
Van wrote: It's that second tier guy, the guy who probably barely even knew FSU existed before Saturday night's game, the guy who in the past might've taken a look at an Oregon State or a Baylor, it's that guy who might've for the very first time awoken to the possibility of staying at home to play for an up and coming program like FSU.
I laughed.

Sincerely,

Fresno State on the cover of SI four years ago.

Nonetheless they're still a program on the rise. They're still in the process of building their rep nationwide. They played #1 OU in Norman two years ago and now they played #1 USC.

They're not yet a household word but they're moving in that direction.

More and more under Pat Hill they're really attempting to schedule like a mofo and if their program keeps this up they're going to be a lot more prominent in five years than they were five years ago.

That's what I mean by "program on the rise"...

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:44 am

I find it funny that a west coaster doesnt have any knowledge over the team they just played.

Fresno State goes by FS not FSU. They are trying to get there own identity and make waves on the national scene. Like they did long before you became a USC fan.

Fresno State has been on the big scene for a while now. They dont have moral victories there. If we were talking about a pac-10 school or Notre Dame then you may have been correct with them having a moral victory. But I can tell you, Fresno was not happy losing.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:48 am

Van wrote: They're not yet a household word but they're moving in that direction.

More and more under Pat Hill they're really attempting to schedule like a mofo and if their program keeps this up they're going to be a lot more prominent in five years than they were five years ago.

If you wouldve been watching football when USC wasnt winning every game then you would have already known of Pat Hill, Fresno State, and how he likes to schedule big time teams.

But since you are a bandwagoning moron, I can see where you didnt know that much about Fresno.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:00 am

Mr T wrote:If we were talking about a pac-10 school or Notre Dame then you may have been correct with them having a moral victory.

I hope you're being sarcastic here.

There are no moral victories at Notre Dame, period. Like I said, there's a contingent of our fanbase who, if it were up to them, would never allow a Notre Dame head coach to lose more than one game, because they'd fire any head coach the first time he lost.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:59 pm

Van wrote: they rarely get on national TV at all

I probably spoke too soon. This may have in fact been regional, rather than national.

Regardless, with the little snippets I saw Saturday night, that made that the 5th Fresno game I've seen at least part of this year...and I don't live in California. Apparently, if it doesn't say "USC vs." in the TV Guide, it doesn't exist in Gravantrain's world.

How many times in the last 15 years has Fresno finished in the top 25? Most of them? You think college hopefuls might actually read the sports section on an occasion, unlike yourself?

And as far as the second tier recruits from California not knowing about Fresno, the only response that really comes to mind is...

Seriously, dude -- are you fucking retarded, or are you really this new to the sport that you're this clueless?

Let me explain, since you have no freaking idea how this works, despite so deperately wanting to fit in around here and look like some OG "I've been an SC fan for years" Vanny-Come-Lately(which, when put to the test with REAL CFB fans, has failed you quite miserably).

See Van, Fresno, along with some other schools who promote their football program...or I know at least one or two of them do this...see if you can follow...see, Freasno and a couple other elite schools employ this technique know as...ready...are you sitting down?...

See, they do this thing called "RECRUITING," and...

Actually, never mind, Van. That's probably a little too advanced a lesson for a CFB freshman.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:01 pm

Van wrote: More and more under Pat Hill they're really attempting to schedule like a mofo and if their program keeps this up they're going to be a lot more prominent in five years than they were five years ago.

Good God, it's useless trying to explain this to you, isn't it? They were already doing this FOUR YEARS AGO. They beat Colorado, Oregon St., AND Wisconsin to open the 2001 season, and that's a year after playing Ohio State, UCLA, and Cal on the road to open the 2000 season. They've played K-State and Tennessee on the road in recent years, as well. Fearless scheduling was already a trademark of theirs long before you picked up your cardinal-and-gold pompoms and noticed that other team in red on your tv screen Saturday night.

Eh, fuckit. There's no way to dumb this down enough so even you could understand it.

What MrT said.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:05 pm

Van wrote:
Dins, really, go back to trolling the generic smack boards with your lame kneejerk attacks. Your tired adolescent schoolyard pitbull act isn't needed here.

How's this working out for you, btw?

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:12 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote: I hope you're being sarcastic here.

There are no moral victories at Notre Dame, period. Like I said, there's a contingent of our fanbase who, if it were up to them, would never allow a Notre Dame head coach to lose more than one game, because they'd fire any head coach the first time he lost.

Really?

The 10 year deal for weis, the fans completely in love with wies and the national exposure that ND got for almost beating USC says differently.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:18 pm

Dins, try as you may this lame tactic of calling me a bandwaggoner/CF freshman/Johnny Come Lately is just pissing in the wind...

Also, notice where I said both Pat Hill and his players would never consider it a moral victory?

Guess you missed that bit in your trolling frenzy.

Notice also where I said they're going to ba bigger program in five years than they were five years ago?

Same deal.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:23 pm

Mr T wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote: I hope you're being sarcastic here.

There are no moral victories at Notre Dame, period. Like I said, there's a contingent of our fanbase who, if it were up to them, would never allow a Notre Dame head coach to lose more than one game, because they'd fire any head coach the first time he lost.
Really?

The 10 year deal for weis, the fans completely in love with wies and the national exposure that ND got for almost beating USC says differently.

And how was that tied into any moral victory? Last time I checked, ND had a much better record than FSU this year. That's about only the second time or so since 1994 that's happened.

ND being 8-2, in position for a BCS bid with a win in the season finale, and 7 of 8 wins being by 19 points or more has a lot more to do with Weis' extension (which was actually a five-year extension, since he originally had a five-year deal) than any "moral victories" you speak of. But keep running the anti-ND smack -- it only goes to show that we're back.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:34 pm

Blah, Blah, Blah...

Your happy with two losses while I was unhappy with two and the third just added on to the shit season. Just goes to show you where ND is these days doesnt it?

ND lost to fucking MSU. MICHIGAN STATE. THE SPARTANS. And yall give the mother fucker a 10 year extension.

Please point out to me the teams that ND beat this year that were so damn good to allow yall to give Weis a 10 year extension while he was 5-2 in his first year.

You stay in whatever mind set that makes you happy but truth is he got the extension because he almost beat USC. ND stayed in the top 10 because they almost beat USC. ND fans are in love with weis because he almost beat USC.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:47 pm

Van wrote:notice where I said

Hard to notice everything, when it's all interspersed with the likes of --

Van wrote:Fresno St elevated their program tonight

Yeah dude, losses are universally noted for that.

Van wrote:If you're a very good California recruit who nevertheless can't quite make it to USC, Miami, Texas, OSU or other programs of that high ilk tell me you wouldn't now seriously consider taking a long hard look at Fresno State...

I think you would, and certainly moreso than you would've twenty four hours ago.

That's what you get for thinking, I guess. Believe it or not Recently-On-The-SC-CaraVan, but most recruits want to go to a place where they at least have a chance at a title in the next 4 years...really.

Van wrote:They lost this specific battle but they won their personal war

Sincerely,
Iraqi/French Insurgents?

Van wrote:It's that second tier guy, the guy who probably barely even knew FSU existed before Saturday night's game

No, seriously...are you fucking retarded? To reiterate, just because YOU don't follow any team not named USC, doesn't mean those good recruits don't. Matter of fact, most guys playing at a level in high school that are in consideration for a bigtime D1 scholarship are pretty passionate about the game...really. And since FSU has quite a few top 25 finishes to their credit over the LAST 15 YEARS OR SO (feeling dumb yet at this point?...you should), I'm quite certain that anyone who's very passionate about CFB had a little better understanding of Fresno than "barely" knowing of their existence before Saturday. That was just staright-up ignorant.

Van wrote:It's that second tier guy, the guy who probably barely even knew FSU existed before Saturday night's game, the guy who in the past might've taken a look at an Oregon State

Since you don't know about this stuff, I'll help you out -- Oregon State has played in a BCS bowl in recent memory, Fresno hasn't, nor will they ever.

Oh, and since you're looking REALLY silly about now, Baylor hasn't either. Nice comparison.

Van wrote:They're not yet a household word but they're moving in that direction.

Sincerely,
Van's House

Van wrote:More and more under Pat Hill they're really attempting to schedule like a mofo

Wrong...again. Fresno has tried to schedule the absolute toughest OOC they possibly can for many years now. To try to characterize their attempts at scheduling tough oppents as occuring "more and more" is just plain inaccurate, obviously based in the ignorance you've displayed here. Maybe you should have read this response and waved the white flag --

Degenerate wrote:They beat Colorado, Oregon St., AND Wisconsin to open the 2001 season, and that's a year after playing Ohio State, UCLA, and Cal on the road to open the 2000 season. They've played K-State and Tennessee on the road in recent years, as well. Fearless scheduling was already a trademark of theirs long before you picked up your cardinal-and-gold pompoms and noticed that other team in red on your tv screen Saturday night.

So, how can you possibly think their scheduling goals are occuring "more and more?" I'll help you out again...they're not, except maybe in YOUR eyes. Try living in reality.

You tried to run your all-knowing yap at people who are a great deal more knowledgable than yourself. You're now paying the price. In case you didn't notice through those myopic eyes, you're in the process of taking a mini-pile-on, and rightfully so.

Live to fight another day, Van...you never had a chance in this one.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:54 pm

Mr T wrote:You stay in whatever mind set that makes you happy but truth is he got the extension because he almost beat USC. ND stayed in the top 10 because they almost beat USC. ND fans are in love with weis because he almost beat USC.

ND fans are happy because they are kicking the shit out of teams they should be kicking the shit out of. Staying close with USC was exactly what it was, a close loss. So was MSU. Losing two games by a total of 6 points is a pretty damn good season, especially considering where all the "experts" had ND projected. And before the season started, I said this team should be no worse than 8-3 by the end of the year. They are 8-2, with a chance of being 9-2 and a BCS bowl bid. So yeah, this year is a success. Next year is a different story. ND has the talent returning and the schedule to compete for the national championship. Anything less next year, and I will be disapointed.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:56 pm

Mr T wrote:Blah, Blah, Blah...

Your happy with two losses while I was unhappy with two and the third just added on to the shit season. Just goes to show you where ND is these days doesnt it?

No, I'm not happy with two losses. As I've said before, when you're a Notre Dame fan, a win is not enjoyable because it's little more than a reprieve, while a loss is beyond devastating. At the same time, however, I'm also a realist, and I realize we have to walk before we can run. Counting bowl games, it's been an awfully long time -- you have to go back to 1993 -- since we had fewer than three losses in a single season.

I've said before, it's more difficult to go from being a good program to being a great program than it is to go from being a bad program to being a good program. But the progress we've made this year under Weis tells me we're on the way.

ND lost to fucking MSU. MICHIGAN STATE. THE SPARTANS. And yall give the mother fucker a 10 year extension.

Did you see the game? ND got down 21 points to Michigan State in the third quarter. But we fought back and forced overtime (we lost because we absolutely suck in overtime, I think our career overtime record is something like 2-8). In the past, under Davie or Willingham, the team would have folded up the tent and died. We would have lost by 42, and the year would have turned into a disaster afterward.

Please point out to me the teams that ND beat this year that were so damn good to allow yall to give Weis a 10 year extension while he was 5-2 in his first year.

You have a short memory, don't you?

ESPN was saying that we would start the year off 0-6 (in fairness, I don't know how they figured the Washington game for a loss). Michigan and Tennessee both started out the year in the Top 10, and many of the so-called "experts" also projected Purdue and Pittsburgh as possible BCS participants. ND makes its schedule up years in advance; we're not responsible for the fact that some of the teams on our schedule this year have underachieved.

You stay in whatever mind set that makes you happy but truth is he got the extension because he almost beat USC.

As many people on this board (most of them not ND fans) noted, the extension was largely a recruiting ploy. Coaches of teams competing with ND for recruits were telling those recruits that Weis was going to bolt for the NFL. In any event, I haven't seen the contract, but I'm reasonably certain there's a buyout clause. Hopefully, ND will never have to resort to it.

ND stayed in the top 10 because they almost beat USC.

The only poll I pay attention to is the BCS poll. ND has only cracked the Top 10 in that poll in the last two weeks.

ND fans are in love with weis because he almost beat USC.

There's a contingent of ND fans who would have fired Weis already, given that he's actually lost two games this season. Funny, but despite the fact that FSU's program has been in a slow but steady decline for the past five seasons, I don't hear any FSU fans calling for Bowden's head.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:33 pm

Dins, before the arrival of Pat Hill Fresno State did not schedule as aggressively as they've done under Pat Hill. They also didn't schedule as aggressively as they will in the coming seasons.

Btw, BYU won a national title playing in the same conference as Fresno State and Utah got into the BCS hunt last year as well so don't tell me Fresno State will never get a crack at a championship. They very well may in the not too distant future...

Also, you're on crack if you think some kid from Long Beach Poly has been closely following the exploits of Fresno State for the past twenty years. If you don't think Fresno State elevated their program and the public's awareness of their program via this game with USC you're even more of an idiot then you play on the internet.

Also, absolutely a team can elevate their program through a loss. It's been proven countless times over the years in all sports and Notre Dame just proved it again this year. That loss to USC got Bob Weis a ten year extension and it silenced the naysayers this season who've been saying ND couldn't play with the big boys.

Then again, your being on crack has always been a given anyway.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:36 pm

Let's go back to your original post, shall we?

Mr T wrote:Fresno State has been on the big scene for a while now. They dont have moral victories there. If we were talking about a pac-10 school or Notre Dame then you may have been correct with them having a moral victory. But I can tell you, Fresno was not happy losing.

So, ND does moral victories, but Fresno State does not? And in support of that you state that ND has two losses, and eight wins against a weak schedule?

A little comparison here: last I checked, Fresno State also had two losses. And a little look-see at some of their victories:

Weber State (not Division 1-A)
New Mexico State (0-11)
Utah State (2-8)
Idaho (2-8)
San Jose State (2-8)

So to recap, that's one win against a non 1-A school, and four other wins against 1-A schools with a combined record of 6-35. Run the weak schedule crap at ND all you like, but ND's schedule isn't remotely comparable to that, and you know it.

Your abortion of a take that ND does moral victories but Fresno State does not is either asinine, the product of an irrational hatred of ND, or both.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:10 am

TiC,

1. A loss to MSU is a loss to MSU. I dont care if you came from behind. You lost. You had to fall behind in order to come from behind. Why were yall behind.

2. I dont care what the "experts" said preseason. Last year should of told you preseason polls are crap. Wow you beat a bunch of preseason champs, too bad they suck when they actually play.

3. You obviously havent been reading FSU fans post these past couple of years. Or you would have seen many calling for his head since he wont get rid of his son.

4. I didnt see Fresno State go ape shit over Pat Hills loss to USC. I did see ND give Weis an extension not more than two weeks after losing to USC. Let me guess. It was the BYU win that won ND over, wasnt it?

Terry in Crapchester · Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:46 pm

Mr T wrote:TiC,

1. A loss to MSU is a loss to MSU. I dont care if you came from behind. You lost. You had to fall behind in order to come from behind. Why were yall behind.

According to Weis, falling behind in that way was on him. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt ... &type=lgns

Funny thing is, we're actually 2-7 against Michigan State since that series resumed in 1997 after a two-year hiatus. But historically, that series has been a series of streaks -- ND was 23-3 in that series from 1969 to 1994, immediately before the series went on hiatus. Hopefully, ND will start a new streak next year.

Btw, I wouldn't be running smack about a single loss to Michigan State if my team's three losses had come at the hands of Virginia, Clemson and North Carolina State. Just sayin'.

2. I dont care what the "experts" said preseason. Last year should of told you preseason polls are crap. Wow you beat a bunch of preseason champs, too bad they suck when they actually play.

But the point you made is that our "weak" schedule proves that we do moral victories, in contrast to Fresno State. Yet in my last post, I just compared our schedule to Fresno State's. There's no comparison between the two, even if Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Tennessee, Washington, Pitt and Syracuse are all in down years by those programs' standards. The weakest team on our schedule (Washington or Syracuse) is still better than at least 5-6 teams on Fresno's schedule.

3. You obviously havent been reading FSU fans post these past couple of years. Or you would have seen many calling for his head since he wont get rid of his son.

The posts I've seen have called for Jeffy to get the axe. Nobody has said anything about firing Bobby, at least not that I've seen.

4. I didnt see Fresno State go ape shit over Pat Hills loss to USC. I did see ND give Weis an extension not more than two weeks after losing to USC. Let me guess. It was the BYU win that won ND over, wasnt it?

I've answered this one before, but since it's not the answer you want to hear, you choose to ignore it.

It was two things. First, it was a recruiting tool, as many have pointed out, to combat the rumors that Weis was leaving for the NFL. Second, it wasn't motivated by any one game, but by the fact that ND football has a different feel to it this season than in past years. If you'd been watching this season you would know that.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:25 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:whole post

Rack. Exactly.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:15 pm

Got to tell you Terry, I have been advocating running the ole man the last few years. I think I also posted a response to lefty earlier outlining my points on why I think the game has past him by.

carry on with your aurgument gentlemen

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:12 pm

Van wrote:you're even more of an idiot then you play on the internet.

Take your heart medication, Vannar.

Remember that rule about proofreading intelligence smack?

And Utah ran the table last year. Did they get a shot at the title?

And I didn't realize that BYU had won in the BCS era. Maybe you should quit comparing ten year old apples to present-day oranges.

You just aren't getting this, are you? Just because Saturday's game raised YOUR awareness of Fresno football, it doesn't make it true that it raised the "public's awareness" of them. The public you speak of consists of COLLEGE football fans, not just USC fans. You're just not understanding this.

I'll try one more time...as stated earlier, FSU opened with Colorado (who was rolling pretty well at the time, 11(?) years removed from winning a championship), Oregon State(SI's preseason championship prediction, after a #4 finish the year prior), and Wisconsin(defending Big 10 champion). They've gone in and played #1 OU, also nationally televised...so how come the OU nationally televised game wasn't the one that opened the floodgates of recruiting? FSU also went to Tennessee...now Van, which team do you think gets higher television ratings....Tenn, or USC...think hard now.

Sorry dude, I wasn't the one who made you make ignorant statements, I merely pointed them out. I also didn't force you to try and cover your tracks after you got called out for uninformed statements (and not just by me). So, if you're going to lash out at someone for YOU making ignorant statements, you should probably be channeling that energy inward...it's that "self-improvement" thing, you know.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:48 pm

PSA for Van: It's my understanding that ESPN Classic is rebroadcasting the game tonight at 8:00 CST. In case you wanted to get all excited again, and stuff.