ND got Fuc...........................

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ND got Fuc...........................

Post by Snake »

Ok, runner fumbles 1 yard line, ball flies back to the 5. Pac 10 ref's mark the the ball inside the 1, crack induced QB falls into the endzone next play..............you make the call?????????????????????????????HOMER WINS....................HOMER WIN.........................................



that was the most ........................whatever...................................
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Post by Snake »

19 looks no replies. Must be worried about Jimmy? ................................
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Post by SoCalTrjn »

They gave him his forward progress, Im not sure about that but you may want to ask one of the refs on here where the mark should have been.

ND benefited from a bad call early when they called Mullets (not going to attempt to spell his name) catch inbounds.


I think this game = Reggie Bush and the Heisman
Last edited by SoCalTrjn on Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SoCalTrjn »

other bad calls in NDs favor was the missed personal foul late hit on Bush after his second TD when he was hit when he was trying to kneel down and pray, the personal foul they caled on Rucker for a blow to the head, there was no hit to anyones head on that and the personal foul call on Josh Pinkard on the fumble when he kicked back at a guy who stomped on his leg in the scrum
after the last 3 games Im sure USC would have opted for refs not from the Pac 10

but it was still an amazing game.
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Re: ND got Fuc...........................

Post by See You Next Wednesday »

Snake wrote:Ok, runner fumbles 1 yard line, ball flies back to the 5. Pac 10 ref's mark the the ball inside the 1, crack induced QB falls into the endzone next play..............you make the call?????????????????????????????HOMER WINS....................HOMER WIN.........................................



that was the most ........................whatever...................................
Ball flies back to the 5? What the fuck game were you watching?
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Post by BSmack »

The real problem is turning what should have been a bad play (Lienart's fumble) into a second chance. I've never liked the idea that the offensive player can fumble the ball out of bounds and retain possesion. But that's a bad rule, not a bad call.

I also didn't think there were seven seconds left on the clock. Seemed more like 3 seconds to me. Maybe someone with a TiVo has already broke that shit down frame by frame?

The being said, that was one of the best games I have ever seen in my life. ND is a damn talented team. If Weis can recruit like he can coach, he's got a chance to build a monster program.

As for SC, what the hell can you say? Pete Carroll has a serious set of stones for calling a QB draw with no time outs left and a chance to kick the game tying FG from chip shot range. And Lienart's pass on 4th and 8 was straight money. He had absolutely no business throwing that ball into coverage that tight, but he made it work.
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Post by Mikey »

The ball definitely didn't fly back to the 5. Maybe the 2 or the 3 at the most, but you couldn't tell by the camera angle. From the way they guy hit the ball it looked like it flew straight to the side.

Seven seconds left or three seconds left, it wouldn't matter. SC got one more play either way.

At any rate, it was an incredible game. ND stuck to their game plan and worked it perfectly. I've never seen any team look so good so often on third and long. SC's pass defense looked helpless. Leinart looked way off his game, missing passes that he usually completes with no problem, but came through when everything was on the line. Reggie was Reggie.
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Post by Waz »

BSmack wrote:As for SC, what the hell can you say? Pete Carroll has a serious set of stones for calling a QB draw with no time outs left and a chance to kick the game tying FG from chip shot range.
did Carroll call it or did Leinart just do it?
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Post by Jack »

It was a GREAT GAME!!

I was rooting for Charlie Weiss and Notre Dame but it's nice to see Pete Carroll being successful!!

That Patriot connection made this more meaningful!
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Post by Vito Corleone »

Actually there is two things that screwed ND. The fumble out of bounds was given back to USC at the forward progress and USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
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Post by TenTallBen »

Vito Corleone wrote: USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
Me too.

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Oh and yes the ball went out of bounds around the two yard line. Although I was hoping USC would lose, ND should have never let that fourth down pass go for that much yardage. Its freaking USC! They should know that was no run of the mill "just pick up the first down" play.
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Post by BSmack »

Vito Corleone wrote:Actually there is two things that screwed ND. The fumble out of bounds was given back to USC at the forward progress and USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
I forgot about that attempted timeout call. I'm assuming that the ref never saw the coach ask for a timeout. But you could see it on camera.

Mikey, you're right about SC getting the extra play. I just wonder if Carroll wouldn't have been thinking differently with 3 seconds left as I don't think ND would have bought the idea that they were going to spike the ball. But its all total heresay and conjecture.

Which is what running sports smack is all about. Right? :wink:
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Post by Waz »

I'm not 100% sure, but if you don't have a timeout and call one in football. they just ignore you. it's not a technical.
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Post by Mikey »

BSmack wrote:
Vito Corleone wrote:Actually there is two things that screwed ND. The fumble out of bounds was given back to USC at the forward progress and USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
Mikey, you're right about SC getting the extra play. I just wonder if Carroll wouldn't have been thinking differently with 3 seconds left as I don't think ND would have bought the idea that they were going to spike the ball. But its all total heresay and conjecture.

Which is what running sports smack is all about. Right? :wink:
Yeah, that's a good point. But the way they the Domer defense was lined up I'm not sure they bought the spike thing anyway. They were bunched 2 or 3 deep in the center of the line almost like they were expecting a QB sneak.
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Post by See You Next Wednesday »

Waz wrote:I'm not 100% sure, but if you don't have a timeout and call one in football. they just ignore you. it's not a technical.
Correct.
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Post by BSmack »

Mikey wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. But the way they the Domer defense was lined up I'm not sure they bought the spike thing anyway. They were bunched 2 or 3 deep in the center of the line almost like they were expecting a QB sneak.
I guess what had me thinking they were caught off guard was Notre Dame's alignment, which was horribly unbalanced. If you even suspect a sneak is on, you try to disguise your defensive front. You certainly don't overload the left side and not have anybody stunting to the right side after the snap or filling gaps from the linebacker or safety spots.

Also, they looked horribly slow comming off the ball and nobody came up on the right side for run support after Leinart was initialy hit. Somewhere, Dan Marino is smiling.
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Re: ND got Fuc...........................

Post by Snake »

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:
Snake wrote:Ok, runner fumbles 1 yard line, ball flies back to the 5. Pac 10 ref's mark the the ball inside the 1, crack induced QB falls into the endzone next play..............you make the call?????????????????????????????HOMER WINS....................HOMER WIN.........................................



that was the most ........................whatever...................................
It was a GREAT game.

STFU.

First off you don't get "forward progress" when you fumble the ball (is this a Pac 10 rule?) Second, who the fuck you talking too? Show up in my house...........I'll slap the ever livin' shit out of ya...................
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Re: ND got Fuc...........................

Post by Snake »

See You Next Wednesday wrote:
Snake wrote:Ok, runner fumbles 1 yard line, ball flies back to the 5. Pac 10 ref's mark the the ball inside the 1, crack induced QB falls into the endzone next play..............you make the call?????????????????????????????HOMER WINS....................HOMER WIN.........................................



that was the most ........................whatever...................................
Ball flies back to the 5? What the fuck game were you watching?

We are discussing the USC v ND. You need to go back into the jackoff section of this site and let it be.............
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Post by SoCalTrjn »

Where was the call for the block in the back on that punt return, after watching all the highlights, that was blatant as hell. The guy puts his arms out to the side but keeps running and uses his body to hit the Trojan defender from behind. For now on guys can hit from behind all they want as long as they put their arms out to the side the refs wont call it?
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Post by smackaholic »

I agree that the rule needs changing. Personally, I think the whole idea of free time outs for doing 2 things that are negative, going OB or incomp. passes is bullshit. Timeouts should be called to move the chains, take a 1st down measurement or maybe after a penalty and the TO for penalties should only be granted if it does not benefit the offending team.
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Post by Left Seater »

Coaches and players can call as many time outs as they want during a game. However, after the first three in a half, the officials are not going to stop the clock or grant their request for a time out. When a coach or a player asks for a timeout when they no longer have one they officials just say you are out. No penatly as in basketball.

As for the fumble out of bounds. I would have spotted the ball around the two or three. A ball that is fumbled backwards out of bounds is next put in play at the point where it crossed the side line. A ball fumbled forward out of bounds is brought back to the spot of the fumble.

If you watch the replay you will see the official starting to raise his arms to signal TD and then he sees the ball going the other way. Dude was totally anticipating the TD. I think this is why he missed the spot where it went out.
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Post by PSUFAN »

What a Saturday! The end of the ND USC game was just amazing. If I hadn't already been ripping my own heart out at the result of the PSU game, I might have done so watching the apparent win, then loss by the Domers.
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Post by SoCalTrjn »

Believe the Heupel wrote:I don't think I've ever seen someone bitch as much about calls that didn't go their way when their team won the game.
not bitching, just pointing out to snake that the refs were not biased towards SC
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Re: ND got Fuc...........................

Post by GreginPG »

Snake wrote:Ok, runner fumbles 1 yard line, ball flies back to the 5. Pac 10 ref's mark the the ball inside the 1, crack induced QB falls into the endzone next play..............you make the call?????????????????????????????HOMER WINS....................HOMER WIN.........................................



that was the most ........................whatever...................................
Whatever is right. :roll:

The ball did not fly back to the 5. It clearly went out inside the 2 yard line at worst and probably crossed OB at the 1 where they marked it.

Don't make me break out the tape!
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Post by Left Seater »

Take a look at the endzone shot. I agree not anywhere near the 5, but somewhere between the 2 or 3, and in my opinion nearer the 3.
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Post by Shawn Marion »

Left Seater wrote:Take a look at the endzone shot. I agree not anywhere near the 5, but somewhere between the 2 or 3, and in my opinion nearer the 3.
So were the spike the ball motions by USC a complete fake out to ND? Was the ruling a fumble out of bounds? The clock shouldn't have run then, correct?
8-1 feels so much better than 2-10-1
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Post by GreginPG »

Image

Line of scrimmage is the 2. Notice the official with the down marker. I would say his left foot is squarely at the 2 yard line. He's directly to the right of the linesman.

Image

Image

Ball has already been knocked loose from Leinart somewhere between the 1 and the goal line. Notice the ball has already crossed OB and has travelled back (or diagonally) but is still left of the LOS marker.

Image

This is the endzone shot. Not conclusive as to where the ball went out but if the ball was supposed to be marked "somewhere between the 2 or 3" then I would think the ball would have had to hit the guy holding LOS marker or go to the right of him. The ball did neither.

NO WAY that ball gets marked anywhere near the 3 and I'd say they were pretty close to getting the spot right.

Oh and one more thing...you can't see clock but the when the ball went out of bound there were 10 seconds left...not the :07 it was reset to.
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Post by Van »

Yeah, and that "Magic Bullet" theory was bullshit too. There was definitely more than one shooter.

:-)

(Awesome work there, btw. Those pics, especially that last endzone shot showing the angle of travel of the ball relative to Leinart's hand and the down marker, there can be no further debate. At worst, the ball left the field of play at the one yard marker.)
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Post by Laxplayer »

The clo0ck doesn't matter because if the ball is fumbled out of bounds then the clock stops. Who fucking cares? ND lost the game when they gave up a first down on 4th and 9.
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Post by GreginPG »

Laxplayer wrote:The clo0ck doesn't matter because if the ball is fumbled out of bounds then the clock stops. Who fucking cares? ND lost the game when they gave up a first down on 4th and 9.
Hey I don't care. I was forced to go to the tape. Relax lax!
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Post by SoCalTrjn »

not sure if this is still a valid rule (from 2003 rule book) or something that even applies but this is what I have found
ncaa rulebook wrote:BALL IN PLAY, DEAD BALL, OUT OF BOUNDS
section 1: Ball in Play-Dead Ball
Live Ball Becomes Dead
Article 2: A Live ball becomes a Dead ball provided in the rules or when an official sounds his whistle or otherwise signals the ball dead
b: If an official sounds his whistle or signals the ball dead during a down
2: When the ball is loose from a fumble, backward pass or illegal pass, then the team in possession may elect to put the ball in play where possession was lost
if that rule is the rule that applied then it would seem that the Trojans would get the ball where Leinart had it jarred loose at which was the goal line
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Post by Killian »

Bitching about a call during that game is stupid. That was easily one of the top 5 games I have ever seen. ND fans could bitch about the last play of the game, but to their credit, they aren't. That was a damn good game. I'll post my thoughts on it later.
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Post by Cicero »

Vito Corleone wrote:Actually there is two things that screwed ND. The fumble out of bounds was given back to USC at the forward progress and USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
I know right. Quinn would have nailed them free throws.
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Post by Dumbass »

4th and 9 and give up half the field.

The Irish fucked themselves.
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Post by Mr T »

Vito Corleone wrote:Actually there is two things that screwed ND. The fumble out of bounds was given back to USC at the forward progress and USC called a timeout when they didn't have one.

How they didn't get a penalty for that I don't know.
And dont forget Bush illegally pushing leinhart into the endzone.
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Post by Killian »

Mr T wrote:And dont forget Bush illegally pushing leinhart into the endzone.
That will never be called and should never be called. Had ND won because of that obscure rule, it would have rung very hollow. Weis even admitted in his presser today that he would expect his runningback to do the same thing.
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Post by Mr T »

I would also want my RBs to do the same thing but if they get a penalty for it then thats what happens.

Because if Bush didnt help him, he wouldnt have got in. So Bush was taking a gamble because if he helped they might lose but if he didnt help then they were going to lose.

Anyone else wondering what is wrong with Leinhart? He either has a hip pointer, a hernia, or something. He just looks beaten physically and mentally. I think this final season is weighing down really hard on the young man.
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Post by Sirfindafold »

Mr T wrote:Anyone else wondering what is wrong with Leinhart? He either has a hip pointer, a hernia, or something. He just looks beaten physically and mentally. I think this final season is weighing down really hard on the young man.
Could be that academic workload. Or maybe all the pussy he's getting.


That motherfucker could, and probably is, tag just about anything.

I hate him.
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Post by Jimmy Medalions »

Mr T wrote:Anyone else wondering what is wrong with Leinhart? He either has a hip pointer, a hernia, or something. He just looks beaten physically and mentally. I think this final season is weighing down really hard on the young man.
Dude suffered a concussion during the ASU game. Pretty common for people to be out in space for weeks after having one. Dude probably shouldn't be playing football right now.
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Post by Left Seater »

Greg,

Excellent shots there. I stand corrected as we also looked at these earlier this week in our officials meeting. I agree the ball should be between the 1 and 2 and without an overhead shot we will never know.

Let me also point out a few things about the official in that view. As 11 is nearing the endzone you clearly see the HL still standing on or near the two yardline. He should have been standing at the goalline, having moved there asap as the ball was snapped. Had he done that he would have been in perfect position to look down the sideline and get an accurate spot. Instead he was moving with 11 and as such started to raise his arms to signal TD before seeing the ball fly out.

Now to set the record straight on fumbles going out of bounds. In all cases the clock stops. On a fumble that goes backwards (towards the fumbler's endzone) from the spot of the fumble is next put in play at the point at which it crossed the sideline. A fumble that goes out of bounds forward of where it was fumbled is next put in play at the spot of the fumble. In the case of the backwards fumble, the clock is not started until it is put in play by a snap. For a forward fumble the clock is started when the referee marks the ball ready for play (ie he starts the 25 second clock). The officials got it correct in this game.

Greg, do you have a shot of where the ball was snapped on 11's TD? Was it really at the one or was it just off the goalline as it seemed live?
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