Should Falcons trade Vick and keep Schaub?

[frodo_biguns]

After watching this kid play he looks like the real deadl. He carved up my Vikings and did an admirable job on the Pats. I know Vick brings in the merchandise revenue for the stadium draw, but realistically, in the long run? I have to be worried about Vick who is always getting hurt. There are teams out there that would give up at least their first two draft picks for Vick. If I'm the Falcons I pull the trigger on Vick next year and keep beefing up the team and save money!

[BSmack]

I know Vick brings in the merchandise revenue for the stadium draw...

Then why are you asking this stupid fucking question? Schaub has potential. Potential for what remains to be seen. He may be the next great NFL QB. Or he might be the next Scott Mitchell. How about you wait a while and see what happens?

[ChargerMike]

At some point the Falcons need to take a long look at Vic's durability. He does not appear to be a Fran Tarkenton. A very hard decision indeed,there's no denying the kid has all the talent in the world.

However, I'm thinking getting L.T. and Brees is not looking too shabby right about now. :wink:

I might give Vick a shot a flanker with Schaub throwing to him....

[bbqjones]

as a vick fantasy owner, i say trade him to fucking canada. he sucks .

[frodo_biguns]

I know Vick brings in the merchandise revenue for the stadium draw...

Then why are you asking this stupid fucking question? Schaub has potential. Potential for what remains to be seen. He may be the next great NFL QB. Or he might be the next Scott Mitchell. How about you wait a while and see what happens?

I guess you misunderstood my message! Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm looking long term as a Faclon owner/coach might. Is Vick worth 8-10 games a year? Ther are two things that are always guaranteed in the NFL, Favre will take drugs to keep his record alive and Vick will get hurt.

[frodo_biguns]

He carved up my Vikings

Hell, who HASN'T????

Saints :?

[BSmack]

I know Vick brings in the merchandise revenue for the stadium draw...

Then why are you asking this stupid fucking question? Schaub has potential. Potential for what remains to be seen. He may be the next great NFL QB. Or he might be the next Scott Mitchell. How about you wait a while and see what happens?

I guess you misunderstood my message! Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm looking long term as a Faclon owner/coach might. Is Vick worth 8-10 games a year? Ther are two things that are always guaranteed in the NFL, Favre will take drugs to keep his record alive and Vick will get hurt.

And I'm saying don't judge based on 2 games. The Rob Johnson and Scott Mitchell out front should have told you that. Let's see what happens now that defenses have some film on Schaub.

[The Assassin]

Trots this stupid thread.

[Qbert]

Trots this stupid thread.

:wink:

it would be niiiice to do that; but the plungering has already started.

[Jeff 2K5]

I know Vick brings in the merchandise revenue for the stadium draw...

Then why are you asking this stupid fucking question? Schaub has potential. Potential for what remains to be seen. He may be the next great NFL QB. Or he might be the next Scott Mitchell. How about you wait a while and see what happens?

I guess you misunderstood my message! Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm looking long term as a Faclon owner/coach might. Is Vick worth 8-10 games a year? Ther are two things that are always guaranteed in the NFL, Favre will take drugs to keep his record alive and Vick will get hurt.

:roll:

[frodo_biguns]

Then why are you asking this stupid fucking question? Schaub has potential. Potential for what remains to be seen. He may be the next great NFL QB. Or he might be the next Scott Mitchell. How about you wait a while and see what happens?

I guess you misunderstood my message! Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm looking long term as a Faclon owner/coach might. Is Vick worth 8-10 games a year? Ther are two things that are always guaranteed in the NFL, Favre will take drugs to keep his record alive and Vick will get hurt.

Are you saying he didn't?

:roll:

[Jeff 2K5]

Evidence Fraudo? :?

[BSmack]

Evidence Fraudo? :?

You mean other than Favre going to rehab?

http://www.answers.com/topic/brett-favre

[frodo_biguns]

Evidence Fraudo? :?

Go to any Bar in the Fond Du Lac/Appelton area and ask a Packer fan. I've met him out a few times, while he was with other women and drunk off his ass. Which was almost a daily occurance. I applaud him for tyring to kick the habit. But he got a pass.

The fact is he was using and abusing pain killers to get on the field. That's cheating! The only reason he didn't get suspended for it was because he was Brett Favre and he is White.

[peter dragon]

so your speculation about Farve's abusing pain killers means? what? how is that evidence?

[Qbert]

and, how again is this relevant to Schaub v. Vick?

Fraudo

you've been nothing much more than a Propaganda Machine lately.

tighten it UP 'brah.

or, the TURK will be visiting your posts soon.

[frodo_biguns]

so your speculation about Farve's abusing pain killers means? what? how is that evidence?

Speculation? It's a fact. He also admitted to it. What you should be asking is. "If Favre did not use the pain killers would his streak still be alive?"

[frodo_biguns]

and, how again is this relevant to Schaub v. Vick?

Fraudo

you've been nothing much more than a Propaganda Machine lately.

tighten it UP 'brah.

or, the TURK will be visiting your posts soon.

Just stating the things in the NFL you can count on. Maybe I should have included a Raiders collapse, David Carr setting a getting sacked record...

[peter dragon]

you said he took drugs to keep his streak alive. do you have any proof? not speculation. Just because I drink beer doesnt mean Im an alcoholic...

[frodo_biguns]

you said he took drugs to keep his streak alive. do you have any proof? not speculation. Just because I drink beer doesnt mean Im an alcoholic...

You can't be serious! He admitted to taking them during the season otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get out of bed for the games. Like I said, come to Wisconsin and hit a few of the bars in the Fox Valley area then swing on over to Taylors in downtown Milwaukee, you'll get your answers. He was the biggest drunk. Even one time a buddies roomate challeneged Favre to a fight because he lost the game. Favre was so fucked up, with his face flat on the bar the guy knew Favre wasn't going to fight. Get off your high horse about professional players. They aren't Gods, especially Favre. He was a jackass around here for years, and that comes from many Packer fans.

Go ahead read these to help you out!

In this day, this age, this NFL, should we be surprised?
By Bud Lea
Packer Plus columnist
May 22, 1996
Last week, at a major press conference in Green Bay, Brett Favre, the National Football League's most valuable player last season, did something a lot of people didn't think he would ever do.

Favre stood in front of an auditorium full of reporters and photographers and announced he had entered the league's substance abuse program. Groping for the right words, he said he sought help through the league to overcome his drug addiction.

Now you don't ordinarily think of Brett Favre coming to a press conference with his girlfriend of 10 years (a rare appearance of Deanna Tynes) by his side and admitting a very personal problem. He ordinarily comes into focus at these affairs with a grin and the ready quip, explaining how he was able to pass for four touchdowns and no interceptions and leading the Green Bay Packers to another victory.

But this was different. Much different.

Brett Favre has been riddled with injuries the past two years. It has been well documented.

I recall a story by Peter King for Sports Illustrated last October. He practically lived with Favre for a week. The story was about Favre trying to crawl out of bed on a Monday following the Detroit game.

He had a throbbing turf toe from playing in the Pontiac Silverdome, a jammed right shoulder after being thrown to the synthetic turf, a lower-back pain he feels every Monday -- the lingering result of a lumbar fracture he suffered in a 1990 car accident. And an aching right side, where two sections of hard plastic mesh were sewn into the muscle walls just below the ribs to repair a herniated muscle, a belated casualty of the car crash.

''When he gets up every Monday,'' Deanna Tynes told King, ''he looks like such an old man.'' Favre is 26.

Yet, this ''old man'' continued to do something no other quarterback has done over the last two seasons. He has started 61 straight games and dominated the position. That took an incredible amount of strength and will power.

But I have a feeling the thing that took the most guts in his lifetime was to get up at that press conference and openly admit his problem.

None of us likes to cop out to our private weaknesses. And Brett's had to be more embarrassing than most, especially since he had not told his coach or teammates. Picking Robert Brooks out in a crowd had to be a piece of cake compared to telling the world he has a drug problem.

We were informed later that alcohol may be a factor. Irvin Favre said a common painkiller, Vicodin, is at the heart of his son's problem, but that Brett's drinking behavior will be examined as well.

What are we supposed to be, surprised?

Who decreed that simply because a man has supernatural skills as an athlete, a gift of gab and a nice smile that he can't fall victim to the bumps of the real world? Athletes, it seems, fall the hardest.

Paul Hornung, the Golden Boy of the Packers in 1962, was suspended one year by the league for betting on games. James Lofton, who totaled more yards catching passes than any player in Green Bay history, was let go after being acquitted on a sexual assault charge in 1987.

In short, athletes are human. Very human.

Brett Favre wasn't the town drunk. He wasn't despondent. He wasn't charged with sexual assault. He wasn't caught in an Irving, Texas, hotel room along with a former teammate, two women, marijuana, cocaine, and drug paraphernalia as Cowboys star receiver Michael Irvin was.

Nevertheless, Favre now is a man with a big pile of wood to chop, you might say, and he wants help.

It isn't just football anymore. This is getting well, breaking an addiction. This will be Brett's challenge.

The scrutiny will be overwhelming when he returns. He will have to deal with negative publicity should he play poorly. He can't go anywhere without being the center of attention, and that can be very confining.

But the good thing is Favre has has admitted a problem and has sought help.

Brett Favre was anything but a pathetic druggie when he guided the Packers to their first NFC Central Division title in 23 years, throwing for 4,413 yards and an NFC-record 38 touchdowns during the 1995 regular season.

The great American pastime is finding someone or something to blame when things go wrong. When someone can get hooked on a pain medication, there's blame to go around. Some of it is Favre's, though, too.

Can Brett Favre make a full recovery? It's up to him.

I'm all for him. I hope he can.

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/arc/0619/bud522.html

Agent: Pack wants drug clause in Favre deal
By Arnie Stapleton
AP Sports Writer
Aug. 22, 1996
Milwaukee -- Brett Favre is seeking a contract extension on par with Troy Aikman's $50 million deal.

But a new pact would include a stipulation that the Green Bay Packers quarterback forfeit some of that money if he violates the NFL's substance abuse policy, his agent said Thursday.

"Logically, the team would like to have some protection. That's understandable and Brett has no problem with that," said James "Bus" Cook, the Hattiesburg, Miss., attorney who represents Favre.

Favre, in the third year of his five-year, $19 million contract, entered the NFL's substance-abuse program in May to be treated for an addiction to painkillers.

Favre also can't use alcohol for two years and recently told the Green Bay Press-Gazette that he is being tested for drugs and alcohol as often as four times a week.

Favre, 26, was the NFL's Most Valuable Player last season while leading the Packers to the NFC title game. He threw an NFC-record 38 touchdown passes in 1995 and over the last two seasons has thrown 71 TDs and just 27 interceptions.

He's seeking a new deal that would put him on a par with Dallas' Aikman ($50 million over eight years), New England's Drew Bledsoe ($42 million over seven years) and Denver's John Elway ($29.5 million over five years).

"That's what the market has dictated for the top quarterbacks," Cook said in a telephone interview. "And I think Brett Favre is the best quarterback in the NFL. A lot of people must share that same opinion since he was the MVP last year."

Cook said he'd like to reach agreement on an extension by midseason.

"We've been talking on and off for several months," he said. "Right now we're kind of in a holding pattern."

Mike Reinfeldt, the Packers' chief financial officer, said the team is intent on renegotiating Favre's current deal. But he said the team has no timetable.

"It's something we'd both like to have had done already," he said. "As for a specific time frame, there's no drop-dead dates. But I think it's something both sides realize the importance of."

Reinfeldt refused to confirm that the team would want a substance-abuse stipulation included.

"I really don't like to go into specifics on any of our contracts," he said.

Neither side would disclose the length of the deal they're seeking.

"We would like to extend it a number of years," Reinfeldt said. "I'm not sure of the specific number yet but it would be a lengthy extension."

If an agreement isn't reached, the Packers could always designate Favre their franchise player, meaning he'd earn the average of the league's five highest-paid quarterbacks. He could strike a deal as a free agent, but the Packers would have the right of first refusal.

Reinfeldt said it won't come to that.

"We have a good relationship with Bus and with Brett. We have a good history of working together," he said. "There's no doubt we really want him. He really wants to be here. All those ingredients make everybody optimistic that we'll work something out."

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/arc/0828/brett822.html

Been There, Done That: Henderson, Marcol offer advice
By Tom Silverstein
and Gary D'Amato
of the Journal Sentinel staff
May 18, 1996
Two prominent former substance abusers applaud quarterback Brett Favre for his decision to come forward with his addiction problem, but they say if he wants to be cured, he will have to practice abstinence.

Former Dallas linebacker Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson and former Green Bay Packers kicker Chester Marcol, who both overcame addictions to alcohol, cocaine and painkillers, advised Favre to go completely clean.

"My one fear or concern for Brett Favre is that he does what Roy Tarpley, Steve Howe, Doc Gooden and all the other great documented relapsers did, that (he) goes on drinking beer," said Henderson, a former substance abuse counselor and current lecturer and film-maker.

"They think, 'Boy, I'm 20-some years old, I'm in America, it's not illegal for me to drink beer. Get off my (expletive) back. . . .' My one (hope) is that Brett will hear this, whether it's from me or others in treatment, that you've got to leave it all alone."

Favre entered a substance abuse treatment program Wednesday after revealing that he had an addiction problem. He did not directly identify the substance he was abusing, but addicted to the painkiller Vicodin.

At least one source has indicated that alcohol abuse is as big a problem and will have to be addressed during rehabilitation. Irvin Favre has acknowledged that at times he has been worried about his son's drinking habits and wants him to be evaluated for all substances.

The scenario in which Favre ran into trouble is familiar to Marcol, who played for the Packers from 1972-'80 before his career bottomed out because of substance abuse. He also started with pain pills and alcohol, later seeking highs from various other street drugs, including cocaine.

He eventually tried to commit suicide by drinking battery acid. He spent 14 days in an intensive care unit and was given his last rites. To this day he must undergo a procedure every six to eight weeks in which his esophagus is stretched with a tube.

"That's how my drug addiction started," Marcol said of pain medication. "I drank before that, but my problems really started when I started using pills."

He wound up abusing "everything on earth," he said. He first tried cocaine in August 1980 -- just before the start of his final season with the Packers -- and it quickly became his drug of choice.

"I went head over heels," he said. "Cocaine just took me over the edge."

Marcol, who said he was in the process of writing a letter of support to Favre, also said he believed the Packers quarterback will have to be free from alcohol for the rest of his life. He warned that the road ahead would not be easy.

"I'm going to tell him to watch out for the pitfalls," he said. "The bottom line is, this is just the beginning for Brett."

Henderson was a star when he became addicted to cocaine at the same time he was drinking heavily and taking pain pills. He finally entered Camelback Hospital in Scottsdale, Ariz., in 1980.

When he got out of the clinic after a 60-day stay, Henderson said he had kicked the cocaine habit but was still smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol. He said his life continued to spiral downward even though he was performing well on the football field.

"I was cursed like Elvis," said Henderson, who is working with professional golfer John Daly to help him overcome his substance-abuse problem. "Elvis' voice never failed him. My legs never failed me.

"The one thing I could do drunk, loaded, screwed up, I could play linebacker. It was the other parts of my life that were deteriorating. My marriage, my social life, paranoia, the psychosis and everything else going on with cocaine abuse that makes you pretty crazy."

Because he suffered a career-ending neck injury with the Miami Dolphins in 1981 before he had become completely clean, Henderson said he never played sober again. He couldn't predict how Favre's career would be altered on the field, except to say that any personal problems that had been tugging at him might be relieved.

Whether Favre maintains his edge as a gun-slinging, throw-caution-to-the-wind type competitor is anyone's guess. He has never been afraid to scramble out of the pocket or make a tough throw just as he was about to be hit.

Henderson thinks Favre's threshold for pain could change. No longer will he be able to hide behind powerful painkillers when it comes time to play.

"I think the Green Bay Packers are going to have to handle him differently, and that is if he's hurt on some occasions he may not be able to play," Henderson said.

Favre will also have to be his own strongest supporter, Henderson said. Because he comes from a background where alcohol consumption is prevalent, he's going to have to learn how to say no, especially back home in Kiln, Miss.

"Brett has to tell people, 'I don't drink, give me a Coke, give me a club soda,' " Henderson said. "And he has to stand firm. I think people will respect him. I don't think anyone will try to force anything on him.

"Just like he stands in the pocket with 300-pound ends and tackles after his (expletive), he's going to have to let his decision to be clean and sober be his pocket.

"People in Wisconsin and Mississippi need to respect his decision and educate themselves and know that this man has made a step forward with a substance-abuse problem."

Marcol, who believes his substance abuse-problems curtailed his career by six to 10 years, said he hoped those in treatment with Favre would treat him as just another person instead of a "superstar football player."

"I hope, for his sake, the treatment is tough," Marcol said. "The tougher, the better. People have to understand that he's in there to get better. It doesn't matter if you're a superstar or some guy who makes $10 an hour. The problem is the same."

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/arc/0522/favre518.html

He was a "DRUG ADDICT!"

Definition: [n] someone who is physiologically dependent on a substance; abrupt deprivation of the substance produces withdrawal symptoms
[n] someone who is so ardently devoted to something that it resembles an addiction; "a golf addict"; "a car nut"; "a control freak"
[v] to cause (someone or oneself) to become dependent (on something, esp. a narcotic drug)

He "NEEDED" the drugs! Not just during the offseason, but for years while playing! Quit taking it personally! Stick to the topic! That is, would he still have his streak if he didn't use drugs? The answer is of course a resounding "NO!"

[Red]

Stick to the topic!

Good advice here.

He carved up my Vikings and did an admirable job on the Pats.

Umm.... do you even watch football? Five of fourteen for thirty nine yards and no TDs = carved up, while throwing for nearly three hundred yards, three TDs and no INTs = an admirable job.

WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!

Your QB analysis is almost as asinine as your general managing skills. Vick's health is always a concern, but there is no way the Falcons trade away their Franchise Player; he is the Atlanta Falcons. Schaub has a 61.9 career rating and prior to his admirable performance against the Patirots, had thrown one touchdown to go along with four interceptions.

Yeah, the kid's the real deadl alright.

[Cicero]

Actually, Fraudo brings up a decent question. I think that Vick is clearly the most overated player in the NFL. He cant pass for shit and yeah he can run, but he gets hurt at least once a season. I think he is the second coming of Randall Cunningham. SHaub on the other hand can ACTUALLY READ A DEFENSE and looks to pass, pass, pass. Vick is pass, oh shit, run nigga.

[See You Next Wednesday]

Nice to see Favre is still, and will always be, in Fraudo's head.

[jiminphilly]

Who the hell makes trades in the NFL? Still to fantasy football Fraudo.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Nice to see Favre is still, and will always be, in Fraudo's head.

The Gibbering Dumbfuck is OBSESSED the Packers and Favre. I quess i might be too if i was a ViQueen fan.