Tennis machine question for the tennis freaks

[Screw_Michigan]

Look at the good wheel movement and positioning on that robot. At least the sexy babes on the ladies tour don't have to worry about being replaced.

[Screw_Michigan]

What is a cosmetic version of a racquet?

Endorsed by Rafael Nadal, this special cosmetic version of the Pure Aero will give you the tools to hit a heavy spin-loaded ball

https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babola ... BRAFA.html

[Screw_Michigan]

What percentage of serves on the ATP Tour are returned in play? I ask because I have noticed in watching these classic matches and matches on TV that pros don't always return serves in play. Makes me feel better when I am frustrated because I can't return someone's serve.

The pros---just like us! Any thoughts?

[Softball Bat]

What is a cosmetic version of a racquet?

Endorsed by Rafael Nadal, this special cosmetic version of the Pure Aero will give you the tools to hit a heavy spin-loaded ball

https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babola ... BRAFA.html

I'm not sure, SM.

My guess is that the racquet has the same appearance as the racquet Nadal uses (or used), but is not exactly the same.
The racquet Nadal uses (or used) might have been jacked up in some way so that it suited his specific needs, but would not be suitable for the average player.

But again, tbat's just my guess.

[Softball Bat]

What percentage of serves on the ATP Tour are returned in play? I ask because I have noticed in watching these classic matches and matches on TV that pros don't always return serves in play. Makes me feel better when I am frustrated because I can't return someone's serve.

The pros---just like us! Any thoughts?

A lot depends on who the players are, and on what surface they are playing.

Sampras played Ivanisevic in the '94 WImbldeon final, and it made for terrible viewing.
They were both very big servers, and a very low percentage of serves were returned, and an even much lower percentage of rallies were seen.
After that final, measures were taken to slow the surface down.

But even now, if a big server is playing on grass, it can be difficult for the opponent to get returns in play.

You'll see a lot more returns of serve put in play in a match played on clay, because the surface is much slower.

Generally speaking, I prefer to watch matches on hard courts or clay courts more than matches on grass courts, for the reason you asked about, SM.

[smackaholic]

The wall never misses.
So when you begin to practice by hitting against the wall you will quickly discover the reason you are still losing to players you want to beat.
-- You are making too many errors --

The wall teaches you the top secret to playing winning tennis.
That is -----> you must control the ball.

When you begin to learn how to really control the ball, you are on your way to being a winner!


There are many things you can do.
Set a goal.
Decide you are going to hit 20 groundstrokes in a row without missing.
If you make it, set your sights on a higher number.

You'll find that it is a cardio workout, because at your level, most points you play only last a couple/few strokes.
When you are on the wall, the ball ALWAYS comes back at you.

I liked to be very keen on keeping my balance with each shot. Really making a point of it.
Proper footwork.

And of course you can move up very close to the wall and practice hitting volleys.
You'll need to be very quick with your hands to do this. The ball comes back at you very quickly.
It is excellent practice.



The great Jimmy Connors, still getting good wall practice at age 60!

You can see that what he is doing is purposely alternating forehands and backhands in a pattern -- rather than just hitting randomly.
Forehand, backhand, forehand, backhand...

I'm sure sometimes he just hits only forehands for a while.
Or only backhands.

There are many things you can do.







Control of the ball needs to come before power.

Wonder how many millions of strokes Jimbo has put into a wall?

[smackaholic]

What percentage of serves on the ATP Tour are returned in play? I ask because I have noticed in watching these classic matches and matches on TV that pros don't always return serves in play. Makes me feel better when I am frustrated because I can't return someone's serve.

The pros---just like us! Any thoughts?

A lot depends on who the players are, and on what surface they are playing.

Sampras played Ivanisevic in the '98 WImbldeon final, and it made for terrible viewing.
They were both very big servers, and a very low percentage of serves were returned, and an even much lower percentage of rallies were seen.
After that final, measures were taken to slow the surface down.

But even now, if a big server is playing on grass, it can be difficult for the opponent to get returns in play.

You'll see a lot more returns of serve put in play in a match played on clay, because the surface is much slower.

Generally speaking, I prefer to watch matches on hard courts or clay courts more than matches on grass courts, for the reason you asked about, SM.

The equipment is simply too good. Cannon serves make for a quick boring match as you say.

Would love to see them go back to wood, then maybe we'd see something at least half as enjoyable as Borg/Mac at Wimbledon. That remains the most entertaining tennis to watch.

[smackaholic]

What is a cosmetic version of a racquet?

Endorsed by Rafael Nadal, this special cosmetic version of the Pure Aero will give you the tools to hit a heavy spin-loaded ball

https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babola ... BRAFA.html

I'm not sure, SM.

My guess is that the racquet has the same appearance as the racquet Nadal uses (or used), but is not exactly the same.
The racquet Nadal uses (or used) might have been jacked up in some way so that it suited his specific needs, but would not be suitable for the average player.

But again, tbat's just my guess.

Are tennis raquets kind of like golf irons in that you can make a club that is easy to hit well or you can make a club that hits even better IF you hit it right?

[smackaholic]

Pickelball's current popularity is another symptom of the dumbing down of America.

I was disappointed, but not surprised, to see Agassi, Roddick, McEnroe, and Chang play that dumb pickelball exhibition a few months ago.

Pitiful whores.

I played pickleball for the first time a few weeks ago.

It is exactly as you say, it is dumbed down tennis. They took about 95% of the life out of the ball so that no matter how badly you mishit it, it is unlikely to be long.That being said, it is a great game for old people who just don't have the mobility or control to put a tennis ball in play.

[Screw_Michigan]

I'm not sure, SM.

My guess is that the racquet has the same appearance as the racquet Nadal uses (or used), but is not exactly the same.
The racquet Nadal uses (or used) might have been jacked up in some way so that it suited his specific needs, but would not be suitable for the average player.

But again, tbat's just my guess.

I think you're right. Thx

[Screw_Michigan]

A lot depends on who the players are, and on what surface they are playing.

Sampras played Ivanisevic in the '98 WImbldeon final, and it made for terrible viewing.
They were both very big servers, and a very low percentage of serves were returned, and an even much lower percentage of rallies were seen.
After that final, measures were taken to slow the surface down.

But even now, if a big server is playing on grass, it can be difficult for the opponent to get returns in play.

You'll see a lot more returns of serve put in play in a match played on clay, because the surface is much slower.

Generally speaking, I prefer to watch matches on hard courts or clay courts more than matches on grass courts, for the reason you asked about, SM.

Ironically it was watching Becker-Agassi Wimbledon 92 that first made me think of this. So yes, grass seems to be the culprit here.

[L45B]

I would argue Agassi was the guy who essentially paved the way for the baseliner game at Wimbledon. In his day, the tourney was owned by the serve and volleyer. For years, Lendl would go to great lengths to prep for Wimbledon but never could win it. Agassi’s return game was on a whole other level and in ‘92 he did the improbable. And he had to be the best returner of his era, because his serve was not nearly as strong as the Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg, Krajicek ‘s of his time.

If you want long, heavy topspin rallies Screwey, you want to be watching old Roland Garros clips. I suggested a few good ones. But any of the finals from the last twenty plus years is quality tennis. Any of Rafa’s matches (hell, I would watch his loss against Soderling, just because there are so few guys who clipped him at RG). In addition, Stan Wawrinka, Thomas Muster, Sergi Bruguera and Gustavo Kuerten were great champions of the red clay who had forehands you want to emulate (Wawrinka’s backhand maybe the prettiest one-handed you’ll see next to Federer).

[Screw_Michigan]

I would argue Agassi was the guy who essentially paved the way for the baseliner game at Wimbledon. In his day, the tourney was owned by the serve and volleyer. For years, Lendl would go to great lengths to prep for Wimbledon but never could win it. Agassi’s return game was on a whole other level and in ‘92 he did the improbable. And he had to be the best returner of his era, because his serve was not nearly as strong as the Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg, Krajicek ‘s of his time.

If you want long, heavy topspin rallies Screwey, you want to be watching old Roland Garros clips. I suggested a few good ones. But any of the finals from the last twenty plus years is quality tennis. Any of Rafa’s matches (hell, I would watch his loss against Soderling, just because there are so few guys who clipped him at RG). In addition, Stan Wawrinka, Thomas Muster, Sergi Bruguera and Gustavo Kuerten were great champions of the red clay who had forehands you want to emulate (Wawrinka’s backhand maybe the prettiest one-handed you’ll see next to Federer).

Thanks for the suggestion, friend.

[Softball Bat]

*Correction*

I posted that Sampras and Ivanisevic played in the '98 Wimbledon final, but that was wrong.
They played in the '94 final.

Would love to see them go back to wood, then maybe we'd see something at least half as enjoyable as Borg/Mac at Wimbledon. That remains the most entertaining tennis to watch.

Yeah, there were contrasting styles of play before the explosion of racquet technology.

These days there is very little serve-and-volley, and nearly all the matches involve both players banging away at each other from the baseline with a lot of topspin.

Oh well.
We're old.

[Softball Bat]

I would argue Agassi was the guy who essentially paved the way for the baseliner game at Wimbledon.

I agree.

Every generation has a player(s) who sets the tone and influence the way the game evolves.
Agassi was certainly that.

Sampras was a greater player, but there were big-serving serve-and-volleyers before him.
Boris Becker, just a half-generation earlier was essentially the same thing, but Sampras was just a better model of that style.

But Agassi was something different.

When Andre came on the scene in the late '80s, he was just relentlessly BASHING the ball with a lot of topspin from the baseline.
Before him, players were not doing that.
But he made it work, and others began to copy it.
Now it is common.

And of course he used that style to capture his first major at Wimbledon, when nobody really expected it.

[Screw_Michigan]

Who do you consider serve and volley players? What does that mean?

[Softball Bat]

John McEnroe and Martina Navratilova were classic serve-and-volley players.

On virtually every first serve, they would hit the serve and rush to the net.
They did it often on the 2nd serve, also.

They were playing very aggressive and were daring the opponent to be able to put the ball past them, or over them.

On clay, since the surface was much slower, and their serve could not as easily put the opponent on the defensive, they might not use the serve and volley tactic as much.

Typically, the serve-and-volley player is more skilled at the net (volley and overhead) than they are at the baseline (forehand and backhand groundstrokes), so they use the tactic of immediately rushing the net after they hit their serve.
And a serve-and-volley player must also have a capable serve.

There are very few serve-and-volley players in the modern era.

[Screw_Michigan]

Interesting. I have been trying to attack the net as much as possible lately because I noticed how it freaked me out when opponents did it. Doing a volley technically correct has been pretty difficult but all it takes is practice.

I started a new DC parks and rec classes tonight, the "intermediate-beginner" class. This is definitely below my skill level. It's me and a handful of ladies, one of which is attractive. They're all noobs.

Anyway, we played king of the court and I attacked the net a few times and SLAMMED that shot home with ease. But then I said to myself I really don't need to do that. So I just hung near the baseline and tried to hit the corners.

I'm only taking this class because I wanted the reps and the classes are super cheap.

[Screw_Michigan]

John McEnroe and Martina Navratilova were classic serve-and-volley players.

Good call. I've been watching this video and it is impressive how McEnroe goes IMMEDIATELY toward the net. I should try that more.

[Softball Bat]

Interesting. I have been trying to attack the net as much as possible lately because I noticed how it freaked me out when opponents did it. Doing a volley technically correct has been pretty difficult but all it takes is practice.

I started a new DC parks and rec classes tonight, the "intermediate-beginner" class. This is definitely below my skill level. It's me and a handful of ladies, one of which is attractive. They're all noobs.

Anyway, we played king of the court and I attacked the net a few times and SLAMMED that shot home with ease. But then I said to myself I really don't need to do that. So I just hung near the baseline and tried to hit the corners.

I'm only taking this class because I wanted the reps and the classes are super cheap.

It sounds great, SM!

More time on the court is definitely the ticket, even if other players are below your level.

The more balls you hit, the better you will become.

And if there is some eye candy out there, all the better.





The serve-and-volley player knows that his tactic puts immediate pressure on the opponent.
Yes, a lot of players panic when they see their opponent rushing the net.

[L45B]

Pure serve and volleyers don’t exist anymore. Federer was the closest thing to it in recent memory but he was nothing near the likes of Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Stich from the generation before. Like Bat said, those were guys who would s&v more often than not no matter the surface.

I preferred those days when you had contrasting styles and on different surfaces. As noted, Agassi was really the only baseliner of that generation to win on a “serve-and-volleyer” surface like grass in a Grand Slam. Then came Lleyton Hewett in the early 00s and that was pretty much how it’s been ever since.

Conversely on a “baseliner” surface like clay, the old serve and volleyers came close at Roland Garros but never could win there. Sampras made the semifinals once. Edberg nearly won in’89 but lost to Chang. Becker got to the semis at least once but no further. Johnny Mac, rewind a half+ generation, came really close but never won at RG. On the women’s side it was the same for Martina.

I just watched highlights of the Monte Carlo final of ‘95 (on clay) between Thomas Muster and Boris Becker. Awesome 5-setter and Becker had him on the ropes up two sets. Muster would win it in 5 and also won Roland Garros the same year beating Chang in the final. His match vs Becker is an awesome example of two totally different style players matching up on a surface that favored the baseliner (Muster) and Becker damn nearly won. I miss those days of tennis more than I’ll miss Rafa and Roger.

As Bat noted, racquet technology has made the game a baseliner’s sport and I think it’s hurt the game in my opinion. It is not as strategic and tactical as it used to be.

When I was a kid, on the second week of Wimbledon, all the grass by the net worn and dried out from all the activity up there. Not like that anymore (now the baselines are dried up by the first weekend).

[Softball Bat]

I preferred those days when you had contrasting styles and on different surfaces.

It (tennis) is not as strategic and tactical as it used to be.

Definitely true.

The racquet technology floodgates opened long ago, and it isn't going to reverse. No chance.

The irony is that for players who are just coming up, like SM, the racquet technology is very helpful.
Tennis is a difficult skill sport, and the modern racquets make playing the game much easier.

It would be good if SM could find an old wood racquet. Some of the pro shops will have one (or more) around somewhere. In a closet, or somewhere.
Take a wood racquet out on the court and see how well you can play with it.
It would be like night and day compared to the racquet he currently uses. You can't do shit with a wood racquet compared to the racquets that are on the market today.

SM would probably ask himself, "How the hell did people used to play with these things?"

[Screw_Michigan]

Great suggestion. I've been playing at this club lately, I'll see if they have a wooden racquet laying around.

[Screw_Michigan]

What racquet brands do you guys like? I have a Volkl V Cell 8 300 that I am playing with. I like it. I demo'd two different types of Yonex models last fall and I went with the Volkl.

[Softball Bat]

I am way out of the loop, SM.
Have barely picked up a racquet for 15 years.

Maybe L45B can offer a take.

[L45B]

I’ve played with Head racquets most of my life (and I haven’t been playing regularly for a while).

I like the controlled feel of a large grip with a thin frame, typically the Radical or Prestige models. I harp a lot about Muster in his hay day but the blue 280 model he used was my favorite racquet of all time. Kind of an in between of the two others that Head redefines every so many years (they discontinued the 280 model decades ago).

I have a friend who swears by Yonex. I used a Wilson Pro Staff Classic when I played in college. Never even picked up one of those Babolat racquets that Rafa has now made a goldmine of— those racquets look like trebuchets to me, no thanks.

It’s all about your own comfort and what you like. If you’re hitting the courts enough (or even the wall), I think it’s a great idea to demo as many racquets as you can.

[L45B]

*Correction*

I posted that Sampras and Ivanisevic played in the '98 Wimbledon final, but that was wrong.
They played in the '94 final.

Bat you really don’t need correcting on this topic but you were right both times.

Sampras beat Goran both in ‘94 and ‘98 Wimby finals.

[Softball Bat]

I had forgotten that they played in two Wimbledon finals.

[Screw_Michigan]

I’ve played with Head racquets most of my life (and I haven’t been playing regularly for a while).

I like the controlled feel of a large grip with a thin frame, typically the Radical or Prestige models. I harp a lot about Muster in his hay day but the blue 280 model he used was my favorite racquet of all time. Kind of an in between of the two others that Head redefines every so many years (they discontinued the 280 model decades ago).

I have a friend who swears by Yonex. I used a Wilson Pro Staff Classic when I played in college. Never even picked up one of those Babolat racquets that Rafa has now made a goldmine of— those racquets look like trebuchets to me, no thanks.

It’s all about your own comfort and what you like. If you’re hitting the courts enough (or even the wall), I think it’s a great idea to demo as many racquets as you can.

Good call. I bet the Babolat Pure Aero Rafas are really nice, but I hate the loud pink and yellow paint job.

[L45B]

As silly as it may seem, the mere color or pattern of the racquet may be a legit reason not to play it, if it is distracting.

I realized a time ago that racquets with different lighter color patterning on a side of the frame versus the other was messing with me. I’d be ok playing with an all-white racquet or all-yellow or whatever, but splotches of both, no way. Djokovic’s black and white Speed model I’ve never liked and this could be the reason why.

Again, demo as many as you can. It’s not just feel but aesthetic. Very similar to a fitting room at Bloomingdales but obviously more fun.

I’ve not hit much with Volkl sticks but that brand has been around a long time.

[Screw_Michigan]

Why do tennis pros need such huge bags? Do they really need 10 racquets?

Yeah, you're getting worked by Djokovic, maybe that 10th racquet will finally turn things around for you.

[L45B]

A string can break at any point, there’s that. Many players prefer switching out racquets at certain times during a match, assuming they have different racquets strung at slightly different tensions.

For instance, the weather might change and a player could be sailing a few long forehands, so they want to switch to a racquet at a tighter tension.

When I was playing USTA junior tournaments, most players were packing 3-4 (of the same) racquet.

Professionals have to pack the extra shoes, socks, hats, shirts, headbands, grip, etc etc. Quite ridiculous yes but probably necessary.

[Softball Bat]

When I was playing USTA junior tournaments, most players were packing 3-4 (of the same) racquet.

I would typically carry 3 racquets to a match, and I can't remember a match where I ended up using all 3.
I was not a huge hitter, and I was not a guy who broke strings all that often.

I chuckle when I see those huge "suitcases" the players are bringing to the court.
And I also chuckle at the "team" (10 or 12 people) who are performing some task for the top players these days.

A lot of things have changed over the years.

[Screw_Michigan]

A string can break at any point, there’s that. Many players prefer switching out racquets at certain times during a match, assuming they have different racquets strung at slightly different tensions.

For instance, the weather might change and a player could be sailing a few long forehands, so they want to switch to a racquet at a tighter tension.

When I was playing USTA junior tournaments, most players were packing 3-4 (of the same) racquet.

Professionals have to pack the extra shoes, socks, hats, shirts, headbands, grip, etc etc. Quite ridiculous yes but probably necessary.

Good insight. Carrying multiple racquets makes obvious sense for the string breaking and to change things up when conditions warrant.

[L45B]

To your point Screwey, given the resources professionals have, it does seem like overkill to be lugging all that extra gear around.

Junior players are packing extra racquets exclusively for the string breaking occurrence (or in the event an angry tirade comes along and it’s a broken frame).

Professionals have the reasons above plus all their OCD ticks that likely rule over their lives. It was said that Rafa’s practice and pre-match routine is extremely tedious.

[Screw_Michigan]

NYT had an interesting story about how players hate the modern grass surface at Wimbledon, which has been tweaked to play faster and more like a hard court. I dunno, I think grass is kind of silly when players are slipping and sliding and risking serious injury.

Saw Alizé Cornet do the splits in her match Thursday and she was in a ton of pain. This is probably a stretch but it seems like grass courts in 2023 is like baseball players playing without gloves in the field. Pointless tradition.

https://archive.li/Z7Mfn

[Screw_Michigan]

Also wanted to mention how extremely silly it is for tennis to take its most important matches and call them due to curfew and have them finish the match the next day. Preposterous. Murry and Tsitsipas had a really tight match on Thursday but the Murray came alive and had Tsitsipas on the ropes. Centre Court was rocking and Tsitsipas was feeling the heat. He was on the verge of losing.

Then the fucking tournament decided to call the match due to curfew and finish it the next day. Tsitsipas then left the court immediately knowing that he got a huge gift. He then went on to win the next day.

I get the whole curfew thing, but I think the tournament should have waited to start the match the next day. Could you imagine any other team pro sport calling a match halfway through due to curfew and expecting everyone to return the next day? Of course not.

[L45B]

NYT had an interesting story about how players hate the modern grass surface at Wimbledon, which has been tweaked to play faster and more like a hard court. I dunno, I think grass is kind of silly when players are slipping and sliding and risking serious injury.

Saw Alizé Cornet do the splits in her match Thursday and she was in a ton of pain. This is probably a stretch but it seems like grass courts in 2023 is like baseball players playing without gloves in the field. Pointless tradition.

https://archive.li/Z7Mfn

Grass is already a faster surface than hard courts. Sorry, I have no sympathy for the players complaining. What I would suggest to them is this: get your ass up to the net!!

The whole point of playing on grass is ending the point quickly. If these Gen X tennis players want to hang out on the baseline for long rallies and risk slipping then that’s their problem.

Slipping on the grass has been happening for decades. Never heard Conchita Martinez or Steffi Graf complaining about it.

Serve and volley!
Chip and charge!

[L45B]

curfew

Screwey— this is completely a Euro thing. Before Roland Garros and Wimbledon had retractable roofs, play ended at dark, even if a match was in progress. Now that these tournaments have the ability to go late into the evening, they still decide when it’s your bedtime.

If I had to pinpoint the issue, probably due to the fact that Brits and Frenchies are years ahead in their wet-pussied big government idealogies, and this is trailing output from that.

If you buy a US Open evening session ticket in August, you will never have to worry about this. The match ends when it ends, even if it’s 3:00am. Freedom!

[Softball Bat]

What I would suggest to them is this: get your ass up to the net!!

Yes.
Unfortunately the players do not have the tools for it.

Back in the day, 3 of the 4 majors were played on grass. Real grass.
These days there is not much fast court tennis played.
Almost every player now is using a forehand grip where their hand is under the racquet (semi-western, or western grip).
Advancing to the net isn't a match with that grip foundation.

You mentioned Federer as maybe being the closest thing to a real serve-and volleyerr we've seen in modern times.
He was using an eastern grip on the forehand -- and maybe sliding his hand a bit under the racquet on a clay court.

Those classic serve-and-volley players I mentioned (McEnroe and Navratilova) were using pretty much a continental grip on the forehand.
Nobody on the tour now uses that grip.