Fine and Suspension

[poptart]

Wowz!

[BSmack]

The kid on the right is bucking for a broken neck if he keeps leading with the crown of his helmet. Look up and SEE what you hit.

Fucking horrible that an adult would put this out on the web.

[Cueball]

GODell just sent James Harrison another Fed Ex envelope after seeing this video

[Screw_Michigan]

The kid on the right is bucking for a broken neck if he keeps leading with the crown of his helmet. Look up and SEE what you hit.

Pretty much. Let's hope it happens. Then we'll have a real life Quad McWheels.

[BSmack]

GODell just sent James Harrison another Fed Ex envelope after seeing this video

That looked nothing like a Harrison tackle. If Harrison tackled like that he would already be in a wheelchair and hooked up to a drool cup.

[jiminphilly]

Fucking horrible that an adult would put this out on the web.

Why?

[poptart]

Coaches must be beggin' for a broken neck by settin' these kids up in this drill.

[poptart]

I don't think the ballcarrier had been clued in at all about what to expect.
That's one problem.
He dipped his head right into the sledgehammer.

Also, you've got two kids charging straight toward each other from about 10 yds away.

In the Oklahoma drill below, you've got the ballcarrier charging forward, but the tackler is just holding ground - after being released from being blocked.

Not nearly as much potential for HUGE helmet-to-helmet impact.

[BSmack]

Fucking horrible that an adult would put this out on the web.

Why?

You seriously have to ASK that question? Have you read some of the comments on that video? These kids are in peewee football, not D1 or the NFL. There was absolutely no need for whomever uploaded that video to do so.

[mvscal]

He might have been able to earn some cred if would have hung on to the ball but he dropped that, too.

Send that whimpering little pansy to dance class.

[godzilla2002]

it's a common drill coaches run

I remember it well! I remember counting how far down I was in my line then counting down the line across me to see who I would be up against. Sometimes I would think cool I got that guy no problem other times it was Oh Shit I gotta go against him

[jiminphilly]

Fucking horrible that an adult would put this out on the web.

Why?

You seriously have to ASK that question? Have you read some of the comments on that video? These kids are in peewee football, not D1 or the NFL. There was absolutely no need for whomever uploaded that video to do so.

Of all the videos on the web, THAT's the video you question being posted? Who the fuck cares about the comments on youtube videos. People troll on them all the time.

If anything some parent can bring up the video and tell his son now NOT to tackle.

[Cueball]

it's a common drill coaches run

I remember it well! I remember counting how far down I was in my line then counting down the line across me to see who I would be up against. Sometimes I would think cool I got that guy no problem other times it was Oh Shit I gotta go against him

this

[BSmack]

Of all the videos on the web, THAT's the video you question being posted?

Not JUST that one. But nice try at spinning.

[Truman]

The kid on the right is bucking for a broken neck if he keeps leading with the crown of his helmet. Look up and SEE what you hit.

Fucking horrible that an adult would put this out on the web.

"You whine like a mule. You are still alive."[/Aziz from Robin Hood]

Things Commonly Heard on the Practice Field 30 Years Ago:

"Low man wins!"
"Lay a hat on him!"
"Root hog or die!"

We were always taught to put our facemasks in the center of the ball carrier's chest while wrapping and lifting his legs with our arms. This was called a "form tackle". Sometimes the head didn't come up quick enough - especially if the ball carrier was bigger. This was called "spearing" if flagged by the refs; "good lick" by the coaches if it wasn't.

I suppose you could find a league where the kids wear flags... Or play soccer.

[Van]

Jesus fucking Christ, KC, would you please stop sucking your own dick about having "played and coached"! You never did either at anything approaching a WGARA level, and probably everyone here played football at some point.

For god's sake, find something new to brag about.

[jiminphilly]

Of all the videos on the web, THAT's the video you question being posted?

Not JUST that one. But nice try at spinning.

I'm not spinning. I just don't see what the big deal is about that video.

[Van]

and what exactly is your stake in this thread Van?

The same as yours, and everyone else's here: uninvolved observer.

As for bragging - there isn't any here, just recollections of people who played sharing similar experiences

Of course you're bragging...again. Your big kick lately is that you're some sort of football savant because once upon a time you played low-level football before coaching in the Pee Wee leagues.

Like AP and Indy, you've become almost incapable of posting without bragging.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

recollections of people who played sharing similar experiences

Refresh my memory... what was the name of the drill where your coaches taught you to grab opposing player's nuts? FYI -- In the gauntlet drill, you're supposed to be stripping the ball, not tickling the balls.

:idea: Did Jerry Sandusky start out in Missouri before moving on to Ped St? :idea:

[Van]

Facts, my ass. You keep equating yourself to some sort of football expert simply because you played as a kid and did a little Pee Wee coaching a long time ago. Apparently your supposed expertise even extends to beyond your TV screen, and now you've built yourself this tidy little world of "Those who've played all think like me," vs "If you think I'm a loudmouth fucking braggart, then you obviously never played the game...like I did!"

You've simply become insufferably full of yourself, is all.

[BSmack]

This thread is a great example of reality vs. perception

The reality being those of us that played / coached see that video as just one kid putting a good shot on another.

The perception of those who haven't is it is a dangerous hit and the kid is headed for a broken neck

I played and I SAW a kid break his neck right in front of me, in practice making a tackle with very similar form to that tackle in the video. The difference was that he was about 8 years older than the kids in the video and the guy he stuck his helmet into outweighed him by 50 lbs and was on his way to a half scholie at Colgate as a fullback.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Back on your homo fantasy kick again?

A not so thinly veiled "I know you are but what am I." Shocking.

It was topical. And based upon truth you openly admitted. If you don't find it funny and/or can't take the abuse, take a deep breath and log off.

Or... come back at me with something legit. Not, "I grabbed balls, you are smacking me for it, therefore you are gay." Weak.

[Van]

Anyone who would even begin to argue that it's safer (and proper form) to tackle by leading with the crown of one's helmet is a certifiable moron.

But then KC Scott knows more about this than Chris Spielman, Matt Millen, and a thousand other NFL players and coaches who all espouse the exact same thing: "SEE what you hit. Always keep your head up."

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

You're getting pretty close to the Kaley category of lying / stalking

Go find this "I grabbed balls" post you referenced

You won't find it, beacuse it never happened.

After that, you can just copy/paste the same apology you put up the last time for lying about "Lift and Steam'

For the record - and I mean this in all honesty - you are one weird, obsessed dude.

IKYABWAI followed by you're smacking me, therefore, you're obsessed with me. Pathetic, but not unexpected. Look -- I don't have the time to find it right now, but I know for a fact you were going on about how you knew that junk grabbing went on in most NFL piles. I am not sure how you came to know this tidbit, but you seemed fairly certain of it, and definitely didn't take issue with it. In fact, you seemed to embrace the whole concept.

I know you posted it. And you caught shit for it from numerous posters. It's a small part of why you are this year's Board Bitch.

[poptart]

Anyone who would even begin to argue that it's safer (and proper form) to tackle by leading with the crown of one's helmet is a certifiable moron.

But then KC Scott knows more about this than Chris Spielman, Matt Millen, and a thousand other NFL players and coaches who all espouse the exact same thing: "SEE what you hit. Always keep your head up."

Go find anywhere in this thread where I write (or you interpret) Not to keep your head up or see what your tackling

What I said was this is the form coaches taught when I played and in my years of coaching I've never had a kid get a head or neck injury.

What you read /spin into that is I teach kids to lead with their helmets down -

I don't and neither does any D coach I ever worked with

back in the stone age, when I played, that was the tackling form coaches taught - The term was "put the bonnet on it" as in aim the helmet right at their sternum, wrap up and drive thru. When you wrapped up your helmet natually slid to the side.

I don't remember any kids getting knocked out or anybody having concussion syndrome.

When I coached my kids up through 7th grade, it was pretty much the same - we never had a kid suffer a head injury

This is funny.

Scott, you say out of one side of your mouth that you don't advocate the form used by the tackler in this video (helmet down) - but then you try to say out of the other side of your mouth that you both USED that form AND coached that form.

wtf?


I'd really love to see what went on before and after this very short clip.

What I see there is a coaching *FAIL*.

[Felix]

I coached for about 15 years (no van, I'm not bragging) and from those videos, there are examples of good and bad tackling techniques

this one was a little disturbing....



there is no tackling technique here, the kid leads with the crown of his helmet, drops his shoulder and just tries to lay the other kid out....and with all of the congratulatory "oh yeahs" this kid will continue to hit like that until it goes wrong....back technique will catch up with him eventually, it always does....

[poptart]

Look -- I don't have the time to find it right now, but I know for a fact you were going on about how you knew that junk grabbing went on in most NFL piles. I am not sure how you came to know this tidbit, but you seemed fairly certain of it, and definitely didn't take issue with it. In fact, you seemed to embrace the whole concept.

Oh... so now you've gone from "Scott Grabbed Balls" to "Scott posted in a thread about NFL Player grabbing balls"

Just Stellar Lyin... errrr "Smack" on your part

Here's the thread kaleyStyle2

As for not taking issue with it - I wrote it's bad sportsmanship, but Shaun Smith was successful drawing the retaliation penalties

No, Paul was wrong. And what KC scrotum-fondler was doing is entirely different from what is talked about in your article.

You don't know much about football and that's OK - I'll try to enlighten you:

But Singletary seemed a little more understanding of the penalty 49ers rookie right tackle Anthony Davis drew Sunday for retaliating against Kansas City Chiefs defensive end Shaun Smith.

"I think he got hit inappropriately," Singletary said after the 49ers' 31-10 loss to the Chiefs on Sunday at Arrowhead Stadium. "After a while, there's only so much you can take. He (Davis) was wrong for retaliating and he knows that."


Davis said Smith's actions were, well, below the belt.

"He tried to feel me," Davis said. "That's weird, right?"

The penalty came at a bad time for the 49ers, who trailed 10-3 early in the third quarter. The 49ers had just converted a first down, but Davis' penalty created a second-and-22 after the 49ers had gotten to midfield.

There also seems to be a trend developing. Cleveland Browns center Alex Mack accused Smith last week of grabbing his private parts, as well.

"I don't think he should be able to do that," Mack told The Associated Press the day after the game. "I'm still fired up about it."

According to the report, Mack was so angered by Smith's actions that he started to chase him toward the Chiefs' sideline before turning around because Cleveland's punt team was coming onto the field.

It was a difficult game for Davis, who surrendered two sacks in pass protection and was also called for a false start.

Smith is trying to get an OT to lose his cool & forget his assignment, draw a penalty or just maim the OT.

So far he's been successful.

Is it clean upstanding sportsmanship? Hell No
Is it working? Hell yes

Smith has 9 solo tackles and 6 assisted for the season and has done a pretty damn good job of replacing injured first round pick Tyson Jackson

Anything else you wanna try and lie about or spin before you go?

What you failed to post was the exchange that happened before this post that you've brought back - and YOUR part in that exchange.

This KC faggot was stroking and fondling packages in NFL dogpiles, and Paul produced this amazing take.
He said, "Happens in most NFL dogpiles, folks....nothing to see here."

Gobbler replied, "Guys are fondling other guys' junk? I don’t think so."

And then YOU replied, "Actually - Paul is right, although fondling isn't what's happening as explained in this article."

And you posted this link - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3974 ... fl-history
The link talks about dirty NFL - players who were physically abusing other players.
Which OBVIOUSLY is NOT what Shaun Smith was doing.
This dude was, two weeks in a row, fondling other player's junk in dogpiles.

You tried to spin away the fact that fondling was taking place - and tried to say that what was happening was not unusual - and that it was just another form of dirty play.

Yeah, the same as Rodney Harrison spearing somebody. lolz

[mvscal]

this one was a little disturbing....



there is no tackling technique here, the kid leads with the crown of his helmet,

No, he doesn't. He lowers his head but he doesn't use the crown like the kid in the first clip. It was poor technique, though, as he didn't wrap up. Eventually, he's going to encounter a ball carrier strong enough to blast through his shoulder chuck and then he'll look like a dickhead.

[poptart]

What's disturbing (but predictable) in that clip is the coaches all jizzing themselves, like, "YEAH, you GO, Billy Bad Ass!!"

They should have been INSTRUCTING him that he needs to do a MUCH better job of wrapping up - instead of encouraging him like that.

Yeah, time will come when a stonger ballcarrier mows right through his bullshit.

[Mace]

I never played pee-wee football...because it didn't exist where I lived back in the day....but in Jr. High and High School, it was common to have helmet to helmet hits. "Low man wins the battle" was the norm and it resulted in many concussions...most of which were ignored unless you were unconscious....and you continued to play the game/practice so as to not be called a pussy. In hindsight, I myself suffered a number of low level concussions in practices and games and think it's far overdue for those in the NFL, NCAA, and the National Federation to finally concern themselves with this problem.

My freshman year in college, our safety broke his neck putting his helmet in the back of a much larger tight end and has spent his life from age 21 in a wheelchair. Yes, it was a freak accident, but one that could have been avoided if he had not speared his opponent. Minimizing these catastrophic injuries can be done by teaching proper fundamentals and not teaching ball carriers or tacklers to lead with their helmets. The risk of serious injury will always remain in football, because it's the nature of the beast, but efforts to minimize them by teaching proper fundamentals should seriously reduce the risk, much in the same way that the blocking below the waist rules have significantly reduced knee injuries, but not totally eliminated them.

[Van]

Excellent post, Mace.

[Mace]

Mace - the low level concussions you mentioned, what were the symptoms or how did you identify it as a concussion?

There are a variety of symptoms, Scott, but being "out" for a few seconds, disoriented, and not remembering events following the hit are a few.

Edit: Here's a link I pulled off of the Iowa High School Athletic Association website.

http://www.iahsaa.org/Sports_Medicine_W ... sions.html

[poptart]

Scott, you say out of one side of your mouth that you don't advocate the form used by the tackler in this video (helmet down) - but then you try to say out of the other side of your mouth that you both USED that form AND coached that form

Go read Trumans description of how he was taught to tackle - it's better worded but same method I was taught

I've already said I didnt coach kids to lead with the crown of their helmet - beacuse they can't see the ball carrier, but you will read into it what you want to read into it

Same thing with the Shaun Smith discussion or the bible.

I'm guessing you never played any football

The reality being those of us that played / coached see that video as just one kid putting a good shot on another.

All total for my 3 sons I coached 15 seasons so far.

Why would you call that a good shot, Mr. Experienced Guy?

Is it because one (or both) of the young boys quite probably suffered a concussion - when they both led with the crown of their helmet??

It was a controlled drill where a coach had two pee wees torpedo each other.

A shot like that can happen in a game, because shit happens, but when it happens like this, in a controlled drill with young kids, that is what's known as a coaching *FAIL*.


It's just hilarous that you chose to come in here lecturing others.

Good shot?

LMAO!

[Mace]

Yeah, the Oklahoma drill is used by nearly all high school and college teams, and has been for a very long time....even back when I played. What the clip fails to show is if the coach actually tried to correct the tackler or ball carrier and teach them proper fundamentals. The fact that this "big hit" happened is not so different from any pee-wee practice I've seen and it serves as an example of what not to do.....and gives the coach an opportunity to actually do some coaching and teach those little guys how to play the game correctly before they get big enough to actually inflict serious injury upon each other.

P.S. And my "tennis elbow" undoubtedly came from too much, and too vigorous, masturbation....seeing as how I never played tennis. I blame Playboy.

[poptart]

It was a controlled drill where a coach had two pee wees torpedo each other.

A shot like that can happen in a game, because shit happens, but when it happens like this, in a controlled drill with young kids, that is what's known as a coaching *FAIL*.

It was a drill where the coach has one running back get tackled by a defender - that's it. You're added description is just ignorant hyperbole

If I remember previous discussions we've had, you've never played football - even as a kid.

That you have no idea what drills are run or what kinds of hits are made is in any football practice, it's amazing tthat you think your opinion is anything other than the off the cuff "oh my poor little Johnny is gonna get hurt" nancy ass bullshit.

You've seen 3 other people in this thread who played - Zilla, Truman and Cue, in addition to me - all say this is / was a regular drill when they played. I'm sure if you ask they'll say they saw hits like that on a regular, if not daily basis at practice. I know I did. I'm not sure what kind of win you think you can achieve in this thread by repeating "coaching fail" over and over

I could go grab x tennis instruction videos and say "oh my, it looks like she is going to fry her elbow if that coach has her do that drill" - when in fact I'd have no clue if that was right or wrong.

More chest thumping and dancing around by KC Scott - and a complete failure to answer my question.

No, no, you said that was a good shot.

Why was that a... good shot?

Because of the kid led with the crown of his helmet - and one of both of the PEE WEES, in a controlled drill, may have gotten a concussion?

[poptart]

And still no answer.

Your refusal says it all.

KC Scott, the blowhard with little dick syndrome, came roaring into the thread and began talking out his @ss.

And as if further indictment is really necessary, not only did Scrot foolishly calling that a good shot (lead with the crown), he chose, for some unknown reason (LDS?) to post this youtube video, showing a kid again using poor technique - and then receiving mucho praise from his idiotic hard-ass coaches.



What was the point of the video, Scrot Rockne? LOL

I have no doubt that you are EXACTLY like those moronic little dick coach wannabes there.


Myself, I happen to respect good coaching, and especially insofar as kids are concerned.
And even more as far as pee wees are concerned.

Good shot?

Laff.

No, bad coaching, blowhard.
He didn't have a handle on what was happening.

Those are tiny kids.
The drill needed at least one of the following...

- the buffer of a lineman in front of each boy
- the two kids going toward each other from a closer distance
- a ballcarrier who knew what the hell was going to happen

Concussion much?

Yes, coaching *FAIL* - mirrored by your performance in the thread.

[poptart]

Oklahoma Drill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Drill

The Oklahoma drill has several variations. The most common involves two players lined up three yards opposite one another. A corridor is set up typically using three blocking bags on each side of the players lined up top to bottom to create a wall, and the walls are spaced about one yard apart. This creates an area of about three feet by nine feet. The two players, at the sound of the whistle, then run at one another and the drill is over when one of the players is on the ground, or if a ball carrier is involved when he is tackled. If a player is able to drive the other player out of the corridor, that also ends the drill.

Many high school and college teams use the Oklahoma Drill as a way to kick off the first day of full contact practice. While often criticized as excessive, it can be a critical tool used by coaches to evaluate players that might have looked good in non-contact drills, but have yet to face full contact.




If you're doing it one-on-one, 3 yds opposite each other is cited as common practice.

Pee wees here look to be about 7-8 yds apart, don't they?

[Truman]

l-to-r: poptart; this thread

pops, I can appreciate your concerns, but it IS a contact sport.

Lowering your dome is instinctual. Facing up on an opponent is a learned skill.

I’ve seen coaches invent entire new languages of cuss words and run a kid on a punishment hill long enough to dig furrows deep enough to plant trees – and the li’l fucker will still lead with his hat.

There’s only about a bazillion kids in America that play this sport, and yes, rarely does a season go by where we don’t read of some tragedy where a kid is resigned to a lifetime of travel in a car with a blue wheelie tag hanging from the rear-view mirror. Guess what? It happens to kids who ride skate boards and play rec league hockey. It happens to kids who ride bikes and climb trees too. It’s a shit-happens-life-ain’t-fair-quality-of-life-changing event, and it sucks. Preventable? You bet. Lock the kid in his room and let him out when he’s 18. Or let him play tennis.

Take another look at your “Hard Hit” vid. “26” put just as much cage on that kid he blew up as he did crown. And if the ball carrier had been a foot taller, it would have been ALL cage – and a classic hit. But no style points – “26” didn’t rip and wrap, as he will no doubt learn to do when he gets older.

And in the Pop Warner vid that brought your initial outrage, I’ve only seen hits like that repeated about a million times over the years. Other than “getting your bell rung,” 99.99999% of the kids that take a lick like that are no worse for the wear. They are, after all, kids and surprisingly resilient – as much cartilage as they are bone at that age[/hyperbole]. Why do you think kids recover so quickly from a broken stick?

Those coaches did not teach those kids to lower their rams. Their preservation instinct did. Although “20” pretty much bought the farm, “5” wobbled away from that pile, too. What lessons are there to be learned? Well, if you’re “20,” you don’t go tippy-toeing into the hole. His teammates will figure out pretty fast who the pussies are. And if you’re “5”, you learn to raise your hat and see what you hit so your dome doesn’t get crushed.

If you don’t like being hit – don’t play.

[Mace]

That you had to wiki the Oklahoma drill then offer more uninformed opinion about it in relation to the video is priceless

Oh bullshit, Scott. I know all about the Oklahoma drill, and here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, you hopeless sinner. I saw many of these drills in Texas too when I was prancing around on the tennis courts of the Lone Star State. Praise the Lord for giving me so much knowledge of football and all things.



- Poptart

[mvscal]

Lowering your dome is instinctual. Facing up on an opponent is a learned skill.

I believe his entire point is that the kids aren't going to learn that skill when they get a bunch of 'atta boys' for blowing someone up using poor or even dangerous technique.