Big East train wreck continues

[Goober McTuber]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... ing-report

San Diego State? Just shut it down already.

[Mikey]

Well, they are in the eastern part of San Diego.

[Left Seater]

This just gets better and better.

One of you lawyer types that is a Big East fan better get ahold of your conference commish ASAP. Dude did a local radio interview and spoke about UH and SMU and their potential membership. He also talked about ways to get out of their conference commitments early. Uhhhh, you are suing and being sued over early exits from a conference, so you might want to watch your comments on the subject. What he implied was that Pitt, WVU, and Syracuse should all stay 27 months and honor their commitment, but new Big East members shouldn't honor theirs.

So what will this new Big East look like for football:

EAST

Rutgers (still might leave conf)
UConn (wants to join ACC)
Louisville
Cinci
Temple
ECU

WEST

USF
Boise State
Houston
SMU
UCF
San Diego State (don't see it)


I also don't see Navy or Air Force joining unless Army is also included.

[Dinsdale]

So what will this new Big East look like for football:

EAST

Rutgers (still might leave conf)
UConn (wants to join ACC)
Louisville
Cinci
Temple
ECU

WEST

USF
Boise State
Houston
SMU
UCF
San Diego State (don't see it)


I also don't see Navy or Air Force joining unless Army is also included.

Don't forget, they're also wooing Boise State...who is, in fact, East of here... Big time.

That should make for a nice travel schedule for USF, eh?

[Carson]

They should have lost their auto-berth when Miami and VT jumped ship.

[M2]

When will the Big East lose the automatic qualifier?

When are you going to take that "Corn-dog" out of your mouth... you look silly.


USF won't be playing in the west... and they would only play Boise State every 3 years or so.

[Screw_Michigan]

They should have lost their auto-berth when Miami and VT jumped ship.

Great take, idiot.

Sincerely,

2006 Sugar Bowl Champs West Virginia Mountaineers

[Van]

The first time the ACC and Big East sent four-loss teams to BCS bowls, that should've been the end of it.

[Left Seater]

Dins,

Are you going Jedi mind trick, or did you miss the part where I typed Boise State.

[Dinsdale]

These aren't the teams you're looking for.

[Adelpiero]

I believe, as long as they stay above a certain # of teams, they will keep their Auto BCS bid.

They fall under that # to start the season, they lose it

[Carson]

They should have lost their auto-berth when Miami and VT jumped ship.

Great take, idiot.

Sincerely,

2006 Sugar Bowl Champs West Virginia Mountaineers

...who are desperately trying to find another conference.

Greater take, cuntflap.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I believe, as long as they stay above a certain # of teams, they will keep their Auto BCS bid.

They fall under that # to start the season, they lose it

Partly correct. The current AQ status runs through the 2013 season, and as long as the Big East maintains Division 1-A accredidation through that time (i.e., minimum 8 members), they will maintain AQ status through that season.

Beyond 2013, the BCS is in the final season of a four-year observational period this year. BCS status for that time period will be determined based on the following criteria (I already posted this in a previous thread):

1. Average standing in final BCS ranking of highest-ranked team in conference;

2. Average ranking of all teams in conference in six computer ranking systems used in BCS;

3. Percentage of teams to finish in Top 25 of Final BCS standings, measured as a percentage of the highest-ranked conference, and adjusted to account for conference size.

Any conference that ranks: (a) in the top six conferences in the first two categories, and (b) 50% or better in category three, automatically earns AQ status. A conference can apply to the BCS' Presidential Oversight Committee for a waiver that will allow that conference to have AQ status if that conference fails to meet the above terms, but: (a) ranks in the top six in the first two categories, or in the top five in one and the top seven in another; and (b) 33.33% or better in category three.

The Big East's AQ status turns entirely on Boise. They'll lose AQ status without Boise, no question about it. With Boise, they probably won't be automatically entitled to AQ status, but could request it from the Presidential Oversight Committee (and probably would be in pretty good shape to get it). Interestingly, had last year's conference realignment held, i.e., TCU to the Big East and Boise to the MWC, the ACC would have had to request a waiver from the Presidential Oversight Committee as well (ACC would have finished seventh in the first category).

All of that being said, the BCS is considering radical changes, including only matching up #1 vs. #2, and eliminating AQ status entirely (I'm not sure how the current BCS bowls would be formulated in that event, most likely it would be a return to the pre-1992 format with some adjustments for the changes in BTPCF since that time). Although it wasn't mentioned in the article Goober linked, I'm told that one of the sticking points in the BYU-Big East negotiations was that BYU wanted an out clause if the Big East lost AQ status for any reason, including abolition of AQ status. I'm not sure the Big East would survive those changes, if they were to come to pass. The main reason the Big East is attractive to prospective members notwithstanding geography is its AQ status. Without that, I'm not sure the Big East survives, unless you're talking about the Big East adding Temple and possibly merging with C-USA's East Division.

[Terry in Crapchester]

One of you lawyer types that is a Big East fan better get ahold of your conference commish ASAP. Dude did a local radio interview and spoke about UH and SMU and their potential membership. He also talked about ways to get out of their conference commitments early. Uhhhh, you are suing and being sued over early exits from a conference, so you might want to watch your comments on the subject. What he implied was that Pitt, WVU, and Syracuse should all stay 27 months and honor their commitment, but new Big East members shouldn't honor theirs.

I think he's just posturing here. I think Marinatto's targeted end game is for all the realignment to take place at the same time, most likely prior to the 2013 season. That would probably be the preferred settlement with West Virginia, to include a monetary settlement from West Virginia to the Big East.

So what will this new Big East look like for football:

EAST

Rutgers (still might leave conf)
UConn (wants to join ACC)
Louisville
Cinci
Temple
ECU

WEST

USF
Boise State
Houston
SMU
UCF
San Diego State (don't see it)

A couple thoughts here:

1. I don't see ECU getting an invite. They want one, but that doesn't mean they get one.

2. USF and UCF wouldn't play in the West. They'll play in the East, so that every other school gets a guaranteed road game in either Florida or Texas every year.

3. UConn may want to join the ACC, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to do it anytime soon. Given that both the B1G and the ACC want ND, I think ND has, at least for the time being, been able to force an expansion stalemate between those two conferences, so long as they continue to remain independent.

4. I've heard San Diego State is interested in joining the Big East for football only. Ironically, that would mean that SDSU would play its two mens' fall sports in the Big East (football) and the Pac-12 (soccer).

How do I see the divisions shaping up?

EAST: UCF, Cincinnati, UConn, Navy, Rutgers, USF
WEST: Air Force, Boise State, Houston, Louisville, SDSU, SMU

To compensate for the Cincinnati-Louisville divisional split, each team will get an annual crossover game. Cincinnati-Louisville and Air Force-Navy are the two obvious pairings. I think the others might be:

Houston-USF
UCF-SMU
Boise State-UConn
Rutgers-SDSU

Mostly random pairings, admittedly, although it makes sense to pair the Florida schools with the Texas schools. And in that regard, Houston and USF were both charter members of C-USA (although USF didn't add football at the 1-A level until a number of years later) and UCF and SMU both jonied C-USA in the same year.

I also don't see Navy or Air Force joining unless Army is also included.

Maybe that's your personal preference, but that doesn't appear to be a stumbling block for either Navy or Air Force. From what I heard, Army was originally under consideration but was dropped rather quickly when they insisted on membership for all sports.

[MuchoBulls]

They should have lost their auto-berth when Miami and VT jumped ship.

Then the ACC should lose their auto bid as well.

[MuchoBulls]

Terry, there is no way that Louisville or Cincinnati are going to go to the West division.

UCF would be the most likely candidate to do so and USF would be their crossover game.

[Screw_Michigan]

They should have lost their auto-berth when Miami and VT jumped ship.

Great take, idiot.

Sincerely,

2006 Sugar Bowl Champs West Virginia Mountaineers

...who are desperately trying to find another conference.

Greater take, cuntflap.

Logic obviously isn't a skill of yours.

[Left Seater]

Imagine that, a school wants all of their teams to compete in the same league. How crazy of them.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Terry, there is no way that Louisville or Cincinnati are going to go to the West division.

UCF would be the most likely candidate to do so and USF would be their crossover game.

The big problem with UCF going to the West would be conference scheduling. One of the benefits of the anticipated expansion should be that every East Division school would get an annual roadtrip to Florida, and every West Division school would get an annual roadtrip to Texas. (Note: that's what should happen, but given that we're talking about the Big East, don't bet the farm on it.) That, of course, would require that UCF play in the East Division. As it is, UCF doesn't play in the same division as either Houston or SMU in C-USA, so I don't think they'd have any great demand to do so in the Big East. So the only justification for moving them to the West is that they're the low man on the totem pole, which should give way to the greater needs of the conference.

Louisville to the West, assuming that alignment, is what makes the most sense to me, with Cincinnati as a guaranteed crossover game. Alternatively, Navy might make the most sense after Louisville. They'll certainly continue to play Air Force every year. Also, the Navy has a considerable presence in San Diego (assuming SDSU joins), as well as a presence in Corpus Christi, TX, which isn't exactly worlds away from either Houston or, in the greater scheme of things, SMU. On the downside, Navy is a bus trip for both Rutgers and UConn, both of whom the Big East will need to placate (Navy will essentially replace Syracuse in that respect).

And I think one other possibility (which could delay an announcement another week, although predicated on a huge IF:) IF Southern Miss were to defeat Houston in the C-USA CCG, they will retain a Top 25 ranking in the final BCS poll, and therefore would be a huge benefit to the Big East as an expansion candidate (at the same time, a Houston loss to USM would not be enough to knock them out of the Top 25 in BCS standings unless it was a blowout). In that event, purely a hunch on my part, but might it not make sense for the Big East to extend invites to Memphis (which helps the basketball side of the house, and doesn't do enough damage to football to kill AQ status) and USM, either in addition to, or in place of, Navy and Air Force? That would allow the Big East to keep UCF, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Navy (assuming they join) in the East Division.

[MuchoBulls]

So the only justification for moving them to the West is that they're the low man on the totem pole, which should give way to the greater needs of the conference.

That's the exact reason they go there.

Either Louisville or Cincinnati going to the West is going to piss them off and they will work together to ensure that they stay in the East and with all of the remaining Big East programs.

[Left Seater]

The train wreck continues in more ways than one.

Here's hoping for the Three way tie for the conference title. Those three would be 1-1 against the others so they would go to a tiebreaker. The tiebreaker says the team with the highest BCS ranking would then get the auto bid. Problem is no Big East team is ranked in the BCS. As Carl Lewis would say, "uh ohhhh".

[MuchoBulls]

Problem is no Big East team is ranked in the BCS

WVU is

[Left Seater]

my bad. WVU is now 23. I was looking at an article from sat and of course the BCS standings aren't updated until Sun.

[socal]

Just kill your TV
Dare you to pick up a book
College ball FUBAR

[Terry in Crapchester]

Apparently, the Big East will announce, perhaps as early as tomorrow, that they are adding UCF, SMU, Houston, Boise State and San Diego State. The first three will be all-sports members, the latter two will be for football-only. http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/e ... ady_2.html

Of course, if the goal is to get to 12, they still need to add two more. Navy and Air Force have been mentioned, of course, but apparently are proving a bit more problematic than first expected. Just a thought, but it has occurred to me that the final two might be Southern Miss and Memphis rather than Navy and Air Force, based on the following:

1. Southern Miss now helps the Big East in the third category for BCS AQ status, which is where the Big East is weakest. They'll still be < 50% of the Big XII's total (will be highest among BCS conferences once adjustment for conference size kicks in) of top 25 BCS teams, but of course, the percentage will go up with Southern Miss, as opposed to Air Force and Navy.

2. While Memphis is a drag on the Big East in the second category, as just one member their influence probably won't be enough to drop the Big East into seventh place, particularly with Boise State and TCU leaving the MWC. Plus, Memphis has a respectable basketball tradition which can, at least to an extent, offset the loss of Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia.

3. If USM and Memphis were the last two members to join, they likely would be placed in the West Division, which would allow the Big East to keep Cincinnati, Louisville and UCF all in the East Division. That may be important from a scheduling point of view.

[BSmack]

How in the fuck is this fair to Boise & SDS?

Because it is their only viable path to an AQ opportunity on a yearly basis. THAT's why they will say thank you very much. That is, until a better opportunity opens up.

[MuchoBulls]

Apparently, the Big East will announce, perhaps as early as tomorrow, that they are adding UCF, SMU, Houston, Boise State and San Diego State. The first three will be all-sports members, the latter two will be for football-only. http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/e ... ady_2.html

Of course, if the goal is to get to 12, they still need to add two more. Navy and Air Force have been mentioned, of course, but apparently are proving a bit more problematic than first expected. Just a thought, but it has occurred to me that the final two might be Southern Miss and Memphis rather than Navy and Air Force, based on the following:

1. Southern Miss now helps the Big East in the third category for BCS AQ status, which is where the Big East is weakest. They'll still be < 50% of the Big XII's total (will be highest among BCS conferences once adjustment for conference size kicks in) of top 25 BCS teams, but of course, the percentage will go up with Southern Miss, as opposed to Air Force and Navy.

2. While Memphis is a drag on the Big East in the second category, as just one member their influence probably won't be enough to drop the Big East into seventh place, particularly with Boise State and TCU leaving the MWC. Plus, Memphis has a respectable basketball tradition which can, at least to an extent, offset the loss of Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia.

3. If USM and Memphis were the last two members to join, they likely would be placed in the West Division, which would allow the Big East to keep Cincinnati, Louisville and UCF all in the East Division. That may be important from a scheduling point of view.

It sounds like Navy will be coming on board in the next week or 2. This should also help get Air Force to come along as well.

If they do not come, then Memphis, Temple, ECU are the rumored programs.

[Screw_Michigan]

How in the fuck is this fair to Boise & SDS?

Since when has fairness been any part of college football in the last 50 years?

[Terry in Crapchester]

Just cancel the Big East. They're great in basketball, but they just don't fucking belong in football. Why would Boise be excited about traveling a minimum of a thousand miles to play a minimum of 6 games? No. They won't. Nobody in the Big East is going to want to travel to Boise, either.

The BE is desperate. Desperate, doomed & dumb. They need to quit football and just stick to hoops.

Not an issue anymore, of course, but earlier, the $64,000 (and yes, I'm missing a few zeroes there) question would have been: how do you do that?

Football is driving the bus on the realignment issue, obviously. Basketball takes a back seat. Unless the Big East stabilized its football alignment, Big East basketball was almost certain to be a casualty.

Yeah, the non-football schools and ND could have stuck together for basketball, poached some of the better members of the A-10, and continued to play hoops. That idea has been floated before (the so-called "Catholic Conference.") And that would've been at least a decent mens' basketball conference, certainly the best in the country not associated with AQ status in the football BCS. The problem would've been olympic sports. The conference would've been solid in mens' basketball, and horrid in everything else. Both ND and Georgetown wanted no part of such a conference for that reason. And without their support, that conference never would've gotten off the ground. Without retaining UConn, Louisville, and to a lesser extent, Cincinnati, Big East basketball will be dead.

The only other option for the Big East to drop football but keep basketball (floated by me earlier) would have been a sort of quasi-merger between the Big East and the Big XII which had the Big East drop football, all football-playing members of the Big East move to the Big XII for football only, but all members stay in their respective conferences for all other sports. That might have worked at some level, although I was told that the Big XII probably wouldn't want such a deal, and in any event, the acrimony surrounding West Virginia's departure from the Big East obviously would've killed any chance of that happening.

So where is the Big East today, athletically speaking?

Football: the real loss here is from a perspective of tradition as well as tie-in to the geographic area typically associated with the Big East (i.e., the northeast), not so much on the field quality. Even if you contrast the current Big East with the anticipated lineup beginning next year, Boise is essentially a wash for TCU. I won't go so far as to call Houston a wash for West Virginia, but Houston's program is definitely improving. Pitt and Syracuse are programs which recently have settled into extended mediocrity (Pitt) and something less than that (Syracuse). I'm not entirely sure the Big East loses anything, other than tradition, by adding SMU, UCF, SDSU and Navy in their stead. Of the Big East newbies, Navy is the one that I'm least certain about. Navy's program improved significantly in the last decade, as opposed to the decade before that, but that improvement came in part upon a cupcake schedule. Moving up to the BCS level, even in the Big East, will likely mean a tougher schedule, so maybe that program will backslide more than the others.

Mens' basketball: Obviously the Big East took a huge hit here (much bigger than football, imho, and the new programs don't even come close to compensating for it). On the bright side, there are still enough quality programs left in the conference that the Big East still qualifies as AN elite basketball conference, even if it is no longer THE elite basketball conference.

Olympic sports: A mixed bag. By way of example, the addition of UCF and SMU likely means that the Big East will be significantly improved in both baseball and mens' soccer (by way of comparison, Syracuse doesn't even field a baseball team). OTOH, mens' lacrosse obviously takes a huge hit with the departure of Syracuse, and even though the conference will get an auto bid to the NCAA tourney beginning in 2014, the conference runs the risk of becoming ND's personal fiefdom (it may surprise you to hear an ND fan say this, but I don't consider that a good thing).

[Goober McTuber]

Football: the real loss here is from a perspective of tradition

Tradition? 26 different members in just over 30 years of existence? Tradition and Big East don’t even belong in the same paragraph.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Football: the real loss here is from a perspective of tradition

Tradition? 26 different members in just over 30 years of existence? Tradition and Big East don’t even belong in the same paragraph.

Syracuse was a founding member of the Big East. Pitt joined relatively early on in the conference's existence.

And from a standpoint of football tradition, West Virginia, Syracuse and Pitt have more of same than do Boise State, SDSU, UCF, and even (at least arguably) Houston and SMU. That was my point.

[Terry in Crapchester]

The Northeast mindset is that THEY should be #1 in everything. Watching them suck at something is hilarious.

I certainly have never said that the northeast is #1 in college football. Hell, I've admitted on several occasions, northeastern college football was Penn State and that was it. Syracuse sucked, Fredo and Rutgers were even worse, and Pitt was still a few years away from a run at the national championship. West Virginia? Not really a northeastern state, although, since it isn't really a southern or midwestern state either, WVU kinda gets lumped in with the northeast.

And Penn State never even joined the Big East, although it wasn't for not trying.

But we kicked the South's ass when it mattered most, of course.

[Terry in Crapchester]

So now Memphis is joining for all sports beginning in 2013, and Navy is joining for football only beginning in 2015. By my count, and assuming the exit clause holds, that leaves the Big East with 14 football members for 2013, 11 for 2014 and 12 for 2015 and beyond. So unless the Big East gets a waiver for 2014, or Navy pushes up its timetable one year sooner, that means the Big East will go one season without a CCG, in between two seasons with a CCG.

So, is the Big East now done with expansion? Maybe, maybe not.

And compounding the above issues is the fact that the Big XII reportedly is looking to get to 12 members again, with Louisville and BYU the most likely targets. If Louisville goes, then the Big East clearly needs to expand again. On top of that, I suppose Memphis exposes the dichotomy between football and basketball in the Big East. Memphis was clearly a good basketball get, but in football they offer little more than another warm body. OTOH, I suppose an argument can be made that Memphis had one of the best-positioned athletic departments to make the jump up to BCS level from the non-BCS level.

Another problem I can see with the continued conference expansion is scheduling. Navy will want to hang onto Army, Air Force and Notre Dame OOC. So if the Big East goes to a 9-game conference schedule, they have no scheduling flexibility. West Virginia's nearest conference rival in the Big XII will be 870 road miles away, so I suspect they'll hang onto both Pitt and Maryland OOC, leaving them only one open OOC date. With the B1G-Pac-12 agreement, a number of those schools will have only one open date remaining, as many play ND. In particular, Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue probably have their flexibility hamstrung, as their OOC schedule likely consists of a MAC school, a Pac-12 school and ND. And the move toward superconferences has cost us a number of great rivalries, including Penn State-Pitt (may be renewed now that JoePa is dead), Nebraska-Oklahoma, and looking forward, Texas-aTm and Missouri-Kansas. The move toward superconferences hasn't been a good thing, but I don't see anything to stem the tide.

[Left Seater]

I wouldn't be worried at all about 2013. The Big East better figure out 2012. ESPN reports that the Big 12 is assisting WVU in a payout that will allow WVU to leave the Big East June 30th of this year. As Terry has pointed out this will put the Big East in a non-AQ position for this season. With that uninspiring future line up once the Big East loses AQ, it could be very difficult to get it back.

What then is the fallout of this decision? Think it means Pitt and Syracuse are gone for sure next season. I also think Uconn and the ACC step up talks. I also think Terry is correct in that the Big 12 goes hard after Louisville.

At that point does ND look seriously at a conference? The Big East would be a shell of it's former football and basketball self. The ACC becomes the clear cut premier basketball league. At that point would the remaining basketball only schools just form their own conf, PVD, Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, etc.

Also as we discussed, what the he'll will the Big East remaining football schools do for scheduling? Play some teams on a home and home basis?

[MuchoBulls]

I wouldn't be worried at all about 2013. The Big East better figure out 2012. ESPN reports that the Big 12 is assisting WVU in a payout that will allow WVU to leave the Big East June 30th of this year. As Terry has pointed out this will put the Big East in a non-AQ position for this season. With that uninspiring future line up once the Big East loses AQ, it could be very difficult to get it back.

What then is the fallout of this decision? Think it means Pitt and Syracuse are gone for sure next season. I also think Uconn and the ACC step up talks. I also think Terry is correct in that the Big 12 goes hard after Louisville.

At that point does ND look seriously at a conference? The Big East would be a shell of it's former football and basketball self. The ACC becomes the clear cut premier basketball league. At that point would the remaining basketball only schools just form their own conf, PVD, Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, etc.

Also as we discussed, what the he'll will the Big East remaining football schools do for scheduling? Play some teams on a home and home basis?

Part of the rumored $20 million settlement is that WVU had to help contact a program as its replacement for 2012. That replacement appears to be Boise State, which is the best thing the league could have hoped for.

The ACC doesn't want UConn. Boston College's AD put the clamps on that and I don't see their stance changing anytime.

I do worry about Louisville going to the Big 12, but Pitino wanted Memphis in, so maybe that helps some, but I doubt it.

[Left Seater]

I have heard that too, but understand it is far from a done deal. What is being reported here is that BSU wants the Big East to pay much of their travel costs for 2012/2013.

Mucho, as I said in another thread I feel bad for you guys but that's it. Even if BSU joins this season, this still seems to be a lesser football league going forward. Not to mention it is a league with little tradition and most have no idea which teams will compete in what sports.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I wouldn't be worried at all about 2013. The Big East better figure out 2012. ESPN reports that the Big 12 is assisting WVU in a payout that will allow WVU to leave the Big East June 30th of this year. As Terry has pointed out this will put the Big East in a non-AQ position for this season. With that uninspiring future line up once the Big East loses AQ, it could be very difficult to get it back.

I don't think there's any amount of money the Big East will take to let West Virginia out for 2012. The only possible exception, I think, is if one of the new members is prepared to enter early, and the Big East can keep Pitt and Syracuse onboard for at least one more season.

If I were representing the Big East, I would probably be requesting a preliminary injunction requiring West Virginia to remain in the Big East for at least the 2012-13 season. In order to get a preliminary injunction, the Big East has to show two things: (1) likelihood of success on the merits in the underlying action; and (2) risk of irreparable injury if the preliminary injunction is denied. I think that puts the Big East in pretty good shape for a preliminary injunction covering the 2012-13 season, although not so much for the 2013-14 season (since most of the new members will probably join by that point).

What then is the fallout of this decision? Think it means Pitt and Syracuse are gone for sure next season. I also think Uconn and the ACC step up talks. I also think Terry is correct in that the Big 12 goes hard after Louisville.

Pitt and Syracuse have said in the past that they will remain in the Big East until 2014, although I've also heard that Pitt is taking a wait-and-see approach with respect to West Virginia. As for UConn, I think they're in a bit of a holding pattern. From the ACC's perspective, they're a nice complimentary piece, but not the big prize. The ACC wants Notre Dame, as does the B1G, and I don't think either conference will expand further unless said expansion includes ND, or ND commits to the other conference.

If the B1G does go to 12 members, I think they're coming hard after Louisville, and I think Louisville leaves. In that event, I think the Big East adds Temple, as it looks like Temple would be the clear-cut choice that both football and basketball schools (those not named Villanova, anyway) could agree on. If you're looking for a darkhorse, New Mexico could be a possibility. Rumors are that SDSU wants all-sports membership in the Big East (once you get past the travel issue, that actually makes sense -- SDSU's basketball program has been improving lately, and the Big East is a step up from the MWC, whereas SDSU's likely destination, the Big West, is a step down.) New Mexico might be a decent western partner for SDSU in that regard, and they have a decent basketball history.

At that point does ND look seriously at a conference? The Big East would be a shell of it's former football and basketball self. The ACC becomes the clear cut premier basketball league. At that point would the remaining basketball only schools just form their own conf, PVD, Georgetown, St Johns, Seton Hall, etc.

The idea of the non-football schools and ND leaving the Big East to form their own conference, along with possibly Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis, St. Joe's, Creighton and/or Detroit, has been floated before -- the so-called "Catholic Conference." It would actually be a decent mens' basketball conference, but horrid in olympic sports. For that reason, both ND and Georgetown are on record as saying they don't want to be involved in such a conference. Without their support, I don't think it could get off the ground.

If the Big East were to implode, I think the first option ND would look at would be membership in the Big XII on a similar basis to their current membership in the Big East. We'd have the support of Texas, and possibly West Virginia (as well as Louisville, should they join the Big XII), although I don't know if we'd get enough support from the other schools to make it a reality. If we did join the Big XII in that capacity, we'd probably bring 1-3 other non-football schools along with us, most likely from among DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, Creighton and possibly Xavier (although I think the Big XII is more likely to add Cincinnati than Xavier). Then again, if the Big East were to implode first, the list might include Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova as well.

I think ND would consider a move to a conference including football membership only if continued independence results in a denial of access from ND's perspective -- access to the possibility of playing for the national championship, access to marquee opponents and access to national TV appearances. From an historical standpoint, it's not dissimilar to bowl games -- remember, ND dropped its no bowl game policy when it appeared that they no longer would be able to compete for national championships without playing in a bowl game. If continued independence has no practical impact on ND's football program, but risks irreparable injury to basketball and olympic sports, I'm not sure what ND would do.

I do know that Georgetown is in a similar position. Georgetown has a "frenemy" relationship with the ACC similar to ND's relationship to the B1G. And the Big East has been instrumental to Georgetown's rise as a college basketball power. Unlike ND, Georgetown has no football program, and the ACC (the only realistic geographic option for Georgetown other than the Big East, at least at this point) has thus far shown no interest in adding members who do not have 1-A football programs.

In the wake of superconference expansion, ND has formed alliances, to one extent or another, with both Texas and Georgetown. Granted, both are marriages of convenience, and are based solely on commonality of interests. But I think those alliances could go a long way in determining what the future holds.

Also as we discussed, what the he'll will the Big East remaining football schools do for scheduling? Play some teams on a home and home basis?

The answer to that, of course, probably turns on everything else. It's still a possibility that the Big East could survive once the dust clears. If nothing else, the Big East historically has shown a knack for survival, even in the face of adversity.

[Left Seater]

I don't think there's any amount of money the Big East will take to let West Virginia out for 2012. The only possible exception, I think, is if one of the new members is prepared to enter early, and the Big East can keep Pitt and Syracuse onboard for at least one more season.

Terry turn on ESPN or fox or check Google. Just heard a report that there is a 2:00 pm press conference announcing WVU Big East $20 Million settlement.

If the Big East were to implode, I think the first option ND would look at would be membership in the Big XII on a similar basis to their current membership in the Big East. We'd have the support of Texas, and possibly West Virginia (as well as Louisville, should they join the Big XII), although I don't know if we'd get enough support from the other schools to make it a reality. If we did join the Big XII in that capacity, we'd probably bring 1-3 other non-football schools along with us, most likely from among DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, Creighton and possibly Xavier (although I think the Big XII is more likely to add Cincinnati than Xavier). Then again, if the Big East were to implode first, the list might include Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova as well.

I don't see the Big XII adding ND without football. This came up a few months ago when Mizzou and ATM were leaving. Multiple ADs said they would only support full membership for all sports, not just football or basketball membership. I know for a fact that the ACC will not take ND unless they join in all sports as I was in a room where Swofford was speaking about expansion. What ND brings to the table is eyeballs for football. Adding their olympic sports brings good basketball teams but basketball is a distant second in the Big XII and ND doesn't add much to an already stacked ACC basketball.

In the wake of superconference expansion, ND has formed alliances, to one extent or another, with both Texas and Georgetown. Granted, both are marriages of convenience, and are based solely on commonality of interests. But I think those alliances could go a long way in determining what the future holds.

I have heard this as well around Texas and ND. I have also heard Dodds say he will not support any school that is not a full member. Again the Big XII would want ND for its football draw, not their olympic sports. Would ND consider the Big XII where it is instantly on of the top 3 vs the B1G where they wouldn't carry as much weight?

The answer to that, of course, probably turns on everything else. It's still a possibility that the Big East could survive once the dust clears. If nothing else, the Big East historically has shown a knack for survival, even in the face of adversity.

I don't think the Big East is in any danger of going away now, but they do look to be a second tier football conference as of today and including all of their new additions.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I don't think there's any amount of money the Big East will take to let West Virginia out for 2012. The only possible exception, I think, is if one of the new members is prepared to enter early, and the Big East can keep Pitt and Syracuse onboard for at least one more season.

Terry turn on ESPN or fox or check Google. Just heard a report that there is a 2:00 pm press conference announcing WVU Big East $20 Million settlement.

ESPN's crawl is calling it a "conditional" agreement. I would assume that the conditions will include one school (preferably Boise) replacing WVU next season and Pitt and Syracuse remaining at least one more year. Reportedly, the $20 million settlement will include $11 million from WVU and $1 million from each other Big XII member.

If the Big East were to implode, I think the first option ND would look at would be membership in the Big XII on a similar basis to their current membership in the Big East. We'd have the support of Texas, and possibly West Virginia (as well as Louisville, should they join the Big XII), although I don't know if we'd get enough support from the other schools to make it a reality. If we did join the Big XII in that capacity, we'd probably bring 1-3 other non-football schools along with us, most likely from among DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, Creighton and possibly Xavier (although I think the Big XII is more likely to add Cincinnati than Xavier). Then again, if the Big East were to implode first, the list might include Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova as well.

I don't see the Big XII adding ND without football. This came up a few months ago when Mizzou and ATM were leaving. Multiple ADs said they would only support full membership for all sports, not just football or basketball membership. I know for a fact that the ACC will not take ND unless they join in all sports as I was in a room where Swofford was speaking about expansion. What ND brings to the table is eyeballs for football. Adding their olympic sports brings good basketball teams but basketball is a distant second in the Big XII and ND doesn't add much to an already stacked ACC basketball.

In the wake of superconference expansion, ND has formed alliances, to one extent or another, with both Texas and Georgetown. Granted, both are marriages of convenience, and are based solely on commonality of interests. But I think those alliances could go a long way in determining what the future holds.

I have heard this as well around Texas and ND. I have also heard Dodds say he will not support any school that is not a full member. Again the Big XII would want ND for its football draw, not their olympic sports. Would ND consider the Big XII where it is instantly on of the top 3 vs the B1G where they wouldn't carry as much weight?

I had heard a few things about ND and the Big XII. I had heard that at one point, ND was seriously considering a move to the Big XII, but without football. Of course, that was back when Texas and Oklahoma were seriously considering departing the conference. If they're more solidly onboard now, that might not be an option anymore.

I also heard that ND was the Big XII's first choice to replace aTm when aTm left for the SEC, but ND rejected the offer. Presumably that meant all sports, including football.

If ND were to join a conference for football, I think the Big XII is a more likely landing place than the B1G, if only because of the historic relationship between ND and the B1G, which hasn't always been positive. Handicapping the possibilities, I would go with this order:

1. ACC
2. Big XII
3. B1G
4. Big East

Pac-12 could, I suppose, also creep into the discussion if the Pac-12 were to go to 16 and add Texas and Oklahoma. In that case, I think there might be some pressure to round out the group with ND and Kansas rather than Taco Tech and Okie Light.

The answer to that, of course, probably turns on everything else. It's still a possibility that the Big East could survive once the dust clears. If nothing else, the Big East historically has shown a knack for survival, even in the face of adversity.

I don't think the Big East is in any danger of going away now, but they do look to be a second tier football conference as of today and including all of their new additions.

I think it all depends on Boise. If Boise joins for next year, I don't think there's a huge difference for the Big East between today and yesterday. OTOH, if Boise isn't prepared to make the move, then the Big East is extremely stupid for accepting this offer.

[Left Seater]

I don't see this being a BCS or AQ conference moving forward. (Granted the BCS could totally change going forward.) But this could be the line up of the Big East as soon as 2013 and it still includes schools that want out.

UConn (publicly said they want out)
Rutgers (has spoken to ACC - longshot)
Cinci
Louisville (we all agree a likely Big XII target and they will go if invited)
South Florida
Houston
SMU
UCF
Memphis
Boise State
San Diego St
Navy (football only 2015)

So in 2015 divisions would look like this possibly:

East
UConn
Rutgers
UCF
South Florida
Navy
Cinci

West
Louisville
Boise St
San Diego St
SMU
Houston
Memphis

The East is really lacking in this geographical breakdown. Hell the SEC would like to schedule most of those guys non-conf. The West is stronger but mostly only because of Boise St. No way is this an AQ conference based on the teams today. Not to say some couldn't improve, but the only way this conf remains an AQ is if the BCS decides it must have 6 AQ conferences.

A bigger question might be how do you schedule a 17 team basketball conf? If you split into two divisions and play everyone in your division home and home and then everyone else in the other division once that is still 24 conference games. That would mean conf games in early Dec. That is likely a no go, so do you just play everyone else in the league once?