Glaus to Cards for Rolen

[fix]

Report: Jays close to Glaus for Rolen swap
TSN - The Sports Network

1/12/2008


Troy Glaus might be on the verge of leaving Toronto in a deal that could send Scott Rolen north.

According to Foxsports.com, the Blue Jays and Cardinals are closing in on a deal that would see the teams swapping third basemen.

According to the report, both players have agreed to waive their no-trade clauses and both would have to pass a physical before the deal could be completed.

The Blue Jays could also get money back from the Cardinals in the deal to help bridge the difference in the contracts. Rolen has three-years and $33 million left on his deal, while Glaus' deal is $24 million over the next two - including an $11.25 million option for the 2009 season.

The 32-year old Rolen has been in a public feud with manager Tony La Russa who benched him in the 2006 playoffs because of Rolen's injured shoulder. Most recently, La Russa accused Rolen of being the only Cardinals player who didn't want La Russa to return as manager.

Rolen, hit .265 in 112 games last season with 8 home runs but went on the disabled list on August 31, 2007. In mid-September, he had shoulder surgery.

The 31-year old Glaus hit .262 with 20 home runs in 2007. Glaus played in 115 games, and a deal to St. Louis could help Glaus' knee/foot issues as the Cardinals play on natural grass.

A change of scenery might be good for both of them. Glaus's constant injuries and ties to the steroids pretty much guarranteed him a trip out of Toronto.

[Shoalzie]

A healthy Rolen would be a big upgrade and he'd be next to an old friend from St. Louis with Eckstein now at short. Too bad for them that they have to be in the same division with the Yanks and Sox though.

[Dinsdale]

You didn't just mention Glaus' "ties to steroids" as a negative in the same post you mention Rolen, did you?

Either you're the most naive fucker on the planet, or you're... the most naive fucker on the planet.

While Roiden hasn't been tossed under the bus yet... if you don't see him as a silver-medal roider (Clemens and Bonds win gold medals), then you ain't too bright.

50 pound weight gain in one offseason followed by an endless string of injuries sayswhat?


For the last many-years, when my friends and I make steroid jokes, Scott Roiden is one of the first names mentioned that gets the "BWAHAHAHA!" Any mention of Bret Boone is usually good for another round of "BWAHAHAHAHA!!!"


Just for your info -- when a dude shows up after the offeseason and is sporting an extra 50 pounds of muscle, and the muscles in his face are suddenly ripped and bulging... it might be a sign... like it was for the other couple of hundred guys that underwent that same transformation and started immediately jacking the ball 600 feet... tell me you knew?

[fix]

No Dins, in this city Glaus's name is already publicly known as having been tied to steroids. While Rolen might well have also been using them, his name isn't one that has been linked to them as of yet..

It's all about the PR...

[jiminphilly]

You didn't just mention Glaus' "ties to steroids" as a negative in the same post you mention Rolen, did you?

Either you're the most naive fucker on the planet, or you're... the most naive fucker on the planet.

While Roiden hasn't been tossed under the bus yet... if you don't see him as a silver-medal roider (Clemens and Bonds win gold medals), then you ain't too bright.

50 pound weight gain in one offseason followed by an endless string of injuries sayswhat?


For the last many-years, when my friends and I make steroid jokes, Scott Roiden is one of the first names mentioned that gets the "BWAHAHAHA!" Any mention of Bret Boone is usually good for another round of "BWAHAHAHAHA!!!"


Just for your info -- when a dude shows up after the offeseason and is sporting an extra 50 pounds of muscle, and the muscles in his face are suddenly ripped and bulging... it might be a sign... like it was for the other couple of hundred guys that underwent that same transformation and started immediately jacking the ball 600 feet... tell me you knew?

Not sure I agree with you on this one- Rolen had injury issues long before he was traded. He's still the best fielding 3rd bagger I've ever seen. Consider who played at the hot corner for the Phillies and realize what I am saying. Rolen is a pussy off the field but a fierce competitor on it and his aggressive style is what caused him injury problems, not roids. At least IMHO.

[Dinsdale]

A fierce competitor who magically gained 85 pounds in 3 months and now has bulging ripped face muscles.

I thought the Naive Era was drawing to a close... guess not.

[rozy]

A healthy Rolen would be a big upgrade.

Ivo?

You get dumber every time you hit the freaking submit button.

[Shoalzie]

A healthy Rolen would be a big upgrade.

Ivo?

You get dumber every time you hit the freaking submit button.

I said "healthy"...the guy was the best defensive third baseman in the game for a brief period. Glaus moving the NL is going to be a disaster. He's nothing more than a DH in my view.

I'll say this about the upgrade of Rolen from Glaus isn't nearly as good as the upgrade of Cabrera from Inge.

[Dinsdale]

You get dumber every time you hit the freaking submit button.

He gets dumber every time he thinks he's some sort of sports columnist... which he might pass for one at a junior high newspaper.


He never cares about the accuracy of his take or anything like that -- just whether he can word it to where he thinks it reads like a newspaper column.


It's pretty annoying, really.

[Shoalzie]

Lighten up, Francis...it's a friggin' message board.

[Dinsdale]

Lighten up, Francis...it's a friggin' message board.

FUGGIN AWESOME, coming from a guy who thinks that with every sports post, he's writing a column for the Sporting News, Special Ed. Edition.


Classic.


Gee Schotz, shouldn't you be busy drafting your next epic "the team that scores the most points will win the game" take?

[Shoalzie]

Zing! I'm going hang up my homemade press credential for good after that chestnut.

[rozy]

A healthy Rolen would be a big upgrade.

Ivo?

You get dumber every time you hit the freaking submit button.

I said "healthy"...the guy was the best defensive third baseman in the game for a brief period. Glaus moving the NL is going to be a disaster. He's nothing more than a DH in my view.

They are for all intents and purposes the same player, moron. Find 2 more position players in the entire league who more closely mirror each other than Glaus who is perpetually injured and Rolen who is perpetually injured. Those guys could be talent twins. Big upgrade? They could have been freaking separated at birth they are so similar. And spare me Rolen's massive defensive superiority. This was a clubhouse chemistry trade and nothing more. I'll trade you my Kurt Bevacqua rookie card for your Juan Beniquez rookie card.

Good grief...

Oh, and they BOTH played pin the needle on the jackass.......jackass

[Shoalzie]

The same player? Hardly...and yes, defense means something in this discussion...especially when we're talking about a position like 3B.

Both players when they were at their best (or when the juice was working for them if you will), Rolen was by far the better all-around player. The biggest check in Rolen's favor is the 7 gold gloves to none for Glaus. Glaus hit for more power...hit 45+ homers in a season three times. Rolen hasn't had more than 34 homers in a season. Rolen was the better pure hitter...his career average is almost 30 points higher than Glaus.

In the "post-steroid" era...I think a guy like Rolen has more value because he can hit for average and play strong defense while Glaus is a one-dimensional player. Rolen is more of a doubles hitter than a home run hitter like Glaus so it's not like losing power is going to make him a useless player. I think he's got more to offer a team going forward while Glaus is a poor defensive player and if being off the juice means a lot less home runs...then what is he good for? Are the Cardinals better having Glaus at third than Rolen? Like I said, Glaus is a terrible player for the national league. If his power is gone, he's not good enough in the field to keep him in the lineup.

[Dinsdale]

The same player? Hardly...and yes, defense means something in this discussion...especially when we're talking about a position like 3B.

Ohhhh, Schotz. What are we gonna do with you?

Rolen's career fielding percentage (not the world's greatest stat, but good enough for this discussion) is .967. Glaus' is .949. Now, playing the Hot Corner, how many balls are hit to 3rd in 162 games (and the next time one of these guys plays 162 games will be the first time)? Maybe 500 or so (very rough guess, I'm sure the numbers can vary quite a bit from year to year) maximum, but typically less. Add in a few plays that don't show up in fielding % (I'm too lazy to look up Zone Rating, but I just happened to have a regular stats page open when I read this). So, when you do some number-crunching, how many plays does it work out to where Rolen's better defense (and I agree that Rolen is a better defensive player, when healthy) makes a difference with the put-out?

What is that... maybe 5 outs difference in a full season? Some of which may or may not allow a run or two to score, ultimately?


Guess what? 5 swings of the bat makes up for the defensive differences. And according to your (INACCURATE -- Glaus has gone 45+ once) statistics and the stats in front of me, Glaus hits more bombs. If you really wanna get nitty-gritty, their RBI per-game and slugging % is close enough to be a wash.


Rolen has a little better defense. Glaus is slightly more reliable.(Although using "realiable" in a discussion of these juice-monkies is stretching the definition.)

As far as the bottom line in W/L... same guy.


I think the key to winning with either guy is to have a solid backup at 3rd.

Neither one of them is worth their salary. Both horrrrrible "moneyball" players. Both are "bad guys."


Lateral move for both teams, to dump guys they just plain don't like.


And Gold Glove Awards are for the best hitter to get at least one defensive play every other season on to Sportscenter. Tell me you knew?



What's funny, is the way people used to jump my shit, both on these boards and in real-life when I'd mention what juice-freaks these guys were.

I seem to remember, probably on SC3, that some Cards fans wouldn't even respond to me and ignored me because they were sooooo offended that I mentioned Rolen's sudden weight gain, and how he was OBVIOUSLY on the sauce. They tried to pile-on. I also laughed my freaking balls off when Glaus became a Mr Universe contestant... but don't tell a Halos fan that the possibly most-decorated player in their history (sorry, Rod, but you didn't win the Big One) was a roid freak. Those people were seriously offended that anyone could say that.

I'm wondering if people still want to take a trip to the U&L just to kick my ass when I talk about Poohole's sudden weight loss after the testing program started. Apparently, he's still untouchable.


Everyone was doing it, but there's a few teams that seem to be serious juice-factories... and the 314 is one of them. Along with the Yanks (the difference being Yanks fans didn't have a whiney fucking meltdown when their guys got accused... they said "shit... busted"), the M's, and the Godfathers of Juice -- the Oakland A's. My A's fan bestest-baseball-watching-bud just about threw down when I talked about Tejada's pre-MVP massive weight gain.


But anyhoo -- Rolen, Glaus... close enough to be called "same guy."

[Dinsdale]

Oh, and BTW-

Rolen has more value because he can hit for average

I laughed.

[Shoalzie]

Oh, and BTW-

Rolen has more value because he can hit for average

I laughed.

You'd rather have a guy that hits .254 than a guy that hits .283?

[Dinsdale]

In the "post-roids era," I'd rather have a guy who can at least put up something over the NL average (OK, the league-wide average was probably less than .283, but not much).


Schotz... give it up, bro. You just claimed a .283 career (and .265 last season) hitter "hits for average."


Just... stop.

[Dinsdale]

And if we're playing the "would you rather" game -- I'd rather trade either one of those deadbeat's for a decent pitcher at that salary and bring up my AAA farmboy 3rd baseman. The odds of such a move creating more W's are better than a lateral trade for some has-beens.

[Shoalzie]

In the "post-roids era," I'd rather have a guy who can at least put up something over the NL average (OK, the league-wide average was probably less than .283, but not much).


Schotz... give it up, bro. You just claimed a .283 career (and .265 last season) hitter "hits for average."


Just... stop.

We're comparing the two guys head-to-head....30 points difference is a pretty big margin. That's what I was hitting on. I wasn't comparing Rolen to David Wright or A-Rod or Mike Lowell.

Both guys are clearly on the decline but if you were stuck with either guy to be your third baseman, I'd pick Rolen. The Blue Jays won the trade because in the AL you can use Rolen as a 3B or a DH. With Glaus in the NL, you can't just use him for his bat (what's left of it)...you have to him in the field. At this point, both guys are better off in the AL where they don't have to play every day in the field.

[Dinsdale]

in the AL you can use Rolen as a 3B or a DH.

Put down the bong, Schotz.



OK, I'll type really slowly...


. 2 6 5


It's kind of exactly like having Dave Kingman as your DH, only without all of the HRs and RBIs.


You know how many players hit for better average in the NL last year?


MOST of them.


Let's see -- a subpar hitter with diminished power and an ever-dropping BA that wasn't good before.... yeah, that's some great DH material. What, did Bucky Jacobsen want $15 million or something?


Dude, there's bums living on the street downtown that are more qualified DHs than Roiden... and they'd probably work cxheaper, and allow you to put the money into pitching.


Lateral trade. Unless one of those guys rights his ship this season (serious X-factor involved, and the only interesting part of this trade), this is a non-issue. The major issue was signing either of these bums to the deal they got... well, OK, one of those bums is sporting some fancy hardware, but is still a bum.

[Shoalzie]

I did neglect the fact that the Jays do have Big Frank as their DH so it's not like Rolen would play that role that often, if ever. The point is, you can use a guy like that for more than just in the field in the AL.

In the AL, the luxury of the DH is still using a guy with a good/decent bat even if he's unfit to play 9 innings in the field. If we're talking about a guy like Glaus in the NL, the guy is used as a pinch hitter late in the game for one at-bat. Not every guy is capable of getting up in the late innings against a tough reliever after sitting for the entire game...especially one with injury problems.

[rozy]

The same player? Hardly

Yeah, you are right. Let's take a clue from Yankee fan and look at what really matters.

Glaus World Series MVP and was the right choice

Rolen World Series Dunce with a ring only courtesy of King Albert (and your team's inability to know which base to throw to on a sacrifice bunt )

I mean, if you are just bound and determined to find major differences...

Really simple, dude. Just up and admit you screwed the pooch on the "big upgrade" comment and all will be forgiven until your next post when you make Bryant Gumble readable.

[Shoalzie]

Yeah, you are right. Let's take a clue from Yankee fan and look at what really matters.

Glaus World Series MVP and was the right choice

Rolen World Series Dunce with a ring only courtesy of King Albert (and your team's inability to know which base to throw to on a sacrifice bunt )

You had to go to the Tigers pitchers couldn't make a simple throw to first or third base smack, huh?

I mean, if you are just bound and determined to find major differences...

Really simple, dude. Just up and admit you screwed the pooch on the "big upgrade" comment and all will be forgiven until your next post when you make Bryant Gumble readable.

It was an exaggeration on my part to say "big" upgrade but if you're going to give me either guy...I take Rolen although he's been considered a bad clubhouse guy. Gibbons is a pretty fiery guy that nearly punched out Ted Lilly a couple years ago. If Rolen lips off to him, I wonder what kind of fireworks could follow.

[indyfrisco]

I seem to remember, probably on SC3, that some Cards fans wouldn't even respond to me and ignored me because they were sooooo offended that I mentioned Rolen's sudden weight gain, and how he was OBVIOUSLY on the sauce.

I moved to Rolen's hometown in 2004 from Texas. Everyone here homers his ass so much. I was at a party and mentioned how he was a juicer. One dude had the audacity to get in my face and say "You need to respect your locals." I just told the dude he wasn't "my local" and his head was up his ass if he thought Rolen wasn't using.

[Adelpiero]

I seem to remember, probably on SC3, that some Cards fans wouldn't even respond to me and ignored me because they were sooooo offended that I mentioned Rolen's sudden weight gain, and how he was OBVIOUSLY on the sauce.

I moved to Rolen's hometown in 2004 from Texas. Everyone here homers his ass so much. I was at a party and mentioned how he was a juicer. One dude had the audacity to get in my face and say "You need to respect your locals." I just told the dude he wasn't "my local" and his head was up his ass if he thought Rolen wasn't using.

Must of been Trix brother.

Jasprex

Why shouldn't they represent? Major cardinal fans in region, and he was a local hero type guy.

[Bizzarofelice]

I seem to remember, probably on SC3, that some Cards fans wouldn't even respond to me and ignored me because they were sooooo offended that I mentioned Rolen's sudden weight gain, and how he was OBVIOUSLY on the sauce.

I remember that. Overlooking the tackles applied by Hee Sop Choi and Alex Contron, you blamed Rolen maladies on steroids. Funny stuff.

[indyfrisco]

I seem to remember, probably on SC3, that some Cards fans wouldn't even respond to me and ignored me because they were sooooo offended that I mentioned Rolen's sudden weight gain, and how he was OBVIOUSLY on the sauce.

I moved to Rolen's hometown in 2004 from Texas. Everyone here homers his ass so much. I was at a party and mentioned how he was a juicer. One dude had the audacity to get in my face and say "You need to respect your locals." I just told the dude he wasn't "my local" and his head was up his ass if he thought Rolen wasn't using.

Must of been Trix brother.

Jasprex

Why shouldn't they represent? Major cardinal fans in region, and he was a local hero type guy.

Because the dude gained 50 pounds of muscle in about a year. Cramming your German-Catholic digits in your ears and screaming "NA-NA-NA-NA" does not change the fact he was juicing. Using "he's from here" as an excuse to not believe it is head in ass/sand logic.

But yeah, Jasprex or JaspInTrojn.

[Shoalzie]

Know any good recipes for crow?

Entering today:
Glaus -- 19 HR, 74 RBI, .267 AVG, 53 runs, 111 hits, 416 AB, .986 fielding%, 4 errors
Rolen -- 7 HR, 38 RBI, .252 AVG, 40 runs, 73 hits, 314 AB, .966 fielding%, 8 errors

I only bring this up after seeing Glaus go yard two more times today off Carlos Zambrano. I chuckle whenever I see Glaus go off in a highlight on Baseball Tonight and remember this discussion before the season. How was this topic still on the first page?

[fix]

In Rolen's defence, you can blame a lot of his lack of production this year on the now former Jays manager and his hitting coach.
It's not as though Rolen was the only one not hitting.

That said, since Cito Gaston came in and brought his old staff with him, the hitting numbers have been increasing. Just Rolen's got a bum shoulder now which is holding him back and causing his fielding to drop off as well.

[TheJON]

You think coaching has had even the slightest impact on Rolen's struggles? Come on now.....he's a major league veteran. Hitting/pitching coaches for veterans are pretty much useless. Once you get to that level you just can't change much. By then.....you are what you are.

The likely result of Scott Rolen is what I like to call "The Cardinal Affect" wearing off. Meaning....he's off the juice. Ever wonder why so many veterans go to St. Louis and all of a sudden become impact players when they sucked elsewhere? Heck, as a Jays fan you should know this very well (Chris Carpenter). Kyle Lohse, Todd Wellemeyer, Braden Looper, etc.... We're talking about the shittiest of the shittiest and all of a sudden once they come to St. Louis they're solid big leaguers.

Cardinal fans will claim it's coaching. That's because they're dumb. It's most likely they juice more than other teams. Let's see....their manager is a dickhead. Said dickhead manager has a history of players roiding up/taking HGH, and crappy players seem to have career years in St. Louis. Doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on that one.

The fact of the matter is with 99% of the players if they've bumped around the bigs for more than 3-4 years and have sucked balls and all of a sudden start hitting/pitching it's probably because they're on roids. 1% of these players just somehow manage to come into their own late without cheating, but that's not the case for most. I know Cardinal fans will defend their coaches but they're delusional. That team is cheating, I would bet my left nut on it.

[Adelpiero]

might be worst poster on these boards ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Shows his stupidity in every forum he pounds the keyboard in


for every player he claims rebounded, i can show you that many more who failed in st.louis

[TheJON]

for every player he claims rebounded, i can show you that many more who failed in st.louis

Yeah, they're the ones that don't take the roids, numbnuts.

Shows his stupidity in every forum he pounds the keyboard in

Either that or you're too fucking dumb and too much of a homer to admit the truth.


LaRussa has a history of coaching players that have been PROVEN to juice (ie McGwire, Canseco, Ankiel, Glaus). Add that to the fact that a lot of never-has-beens make their way to St. Louis and all of a sudden become pretty good big leaguers. Then add that to the fact that the percentage chance of actually forming into a good big leaguer after you've reached about the age of 27 and had 3-4 mediocre years experience in the bigs is about 1 in 100.

Big league coaching is pretty much useless after a player gets to a certain age and experience level. They are what they are. The only good a hitting or pitching coach can be is to the younger players. Not developing their baseball skills so much but moreso teaching them how to pitch to big league hitters or pitch selection for the hitters.

There are 2 things you can't improve (except for maybe 1% of all players......there's always the exception to the rule, I know that)...

1.Fundamentals. You can't change a players fundamentals. He is what he is once he gets to the bigs. If he can't lay off pitches, can't throw strikes, can't run the bases, can't field, can't sacrifice, etc..... There's no point in trying to coach them at it. Once a player gets to the bigs, if he's fundamentally sound already he'll be fundamentally sound in the bigs. If he's not, he'll never change. You have to learn fundamentals at a young age.

2.A veteran. If you spend a few years in the bigs and you're 27 or above, you are what you are. If you're a great player already, you'll probably continue to be a great player. If you were a poor player, you'll continue to be a poor player. If you can't hit a curveball, you're not all of a sudden going to learn how to hit one. If you can't lay off the low and away breaking balls, that won't change either. If you spent 4 years hitting 12 home runs and you're 32 years old, you're not going to start hitting 25 home runs at age 32. The only exception to this rule for 99% of all players is juicers. If you juice up, it might improve your power numbers and possibly even make you a more confident hitter.

So, to say that Duncan/LaRussa are somehow just better player developers (which is what I hear from Cardinals fans all the time) is a fucking joke. You'd expect "the best fans in baseball" to have a little bit more knowledge of the game than that. If you guys are so fucking knowledgeable (and we hear you guys say that all the time) than you'd know that argument is a load of crap.

[rozy]

Has-beens? Never-wases? Sucked before?

Rolen sucked before St. Louis?

Dadgum but you still suck as badly as you did the first time I read your bunch of jonsense years ago.

Straight up stupid.

[TheJON]

Has-beens? Never-wases? Sucked before?

Rolen sucked before St. Louis?

Learn to read, dickface before you say the following...

Dadgum but you still suck as badly as you did the first time I read your bunch of jonsense years ago.

Straight up stupid.

I never said Rolen sucked before St. Louis and I'll promise to pay for your next hooker if you find me where I said that. I was talking about other players like Todd Suckseverywherebutstlouismeyer, Kyle Lohse, etc....

He who cannot read has no right to call anyone stupid. But other than that, rozy, excellent take. Douchebag.

[rozy]

You think coaching has had even the slightest impact on Rolen's struggles? Come on now.....he's a major league veteran. Hitting/pitching coaches for veterans are pretty much useless. Once you get to that level you just can't change much. By then.....you are what you are.

The likely result of Scott Rolen is what I like to call "The Cardinal Affect" wearing off. Meaning....he's off the juice. Ever wonder why so many veterans go to St. Louis and all of a sudden become impact players when they sucked elsewhere? Heck, as a Jays fan you should know this very well (Chris Carpenter). Kyle Lohse, Todd Wellemeyer, Braden Looper, etc.... We're talking about the shittiest of the shittiest and all of a sudden once they come to St. Louis they're solid big leaguers.

Cardinal fans will claim it's coaching. That's because they're dumb. It's most likely they juice more than other teams. Let's see....their manager is a dickhead. Said dickhead manager has a history of players roiding up/taking HGH, and crappy players seem to have career years in St. Louis. Doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on that one.

The fact of the matter is with 99% of the players if they've bumped around the bigs for more than 3-4 years and have sucked balls and all of a sudden start hitting/pitching it's probably because they're on roids. 1% of these players just somehow manage to come into their own late without cheating, but that's not the case for most. I know Cardinal fans will defend their coaches but they're delusional. That team is cheating, I would bet my left nut on it.

Black, White

This forum is better off with light traffic than with you polluting it with gibberish.

[TheJON]

This forum is better off with light traffic than with you polluting it with gibberish.

Or takes so good that your only rebuttal is calling me a poopy-face or some other childish name. Don't hate on me because LaRussa's players roid up. I don't inject them.

[Bizzarofelice]

Don't hate on me because LaRussa's players roid up.

Nobody is commenting on that.

Everybody is telling you to let Darwin into your life.