Check it out, folks

[indyfrisco]

If you build it...they will come.

Sin,
Reliant Stadium vs. Astrodome

[War Wagon]

I am AGAINST this proposition for the following reasons:

1. They can build two NEW stadiums for the money they're trying to squeeze out of us Jackson County residents.

If you seriously think that they could build two new stadiums for $775 mil and have the same finished product as what a renovated Truman Sports Complex will be, you're seriously deluded. What... are they supposed to just tear down Arrowhead and the K and rebuild there, or locate someplace else? And if someplace else, where?

Also, Jackson County residents won't be footing the entire bill, but only about 2/3rds of Prop 1. Other people spend money in Jackson County besides the residents. Prop 2 will be funded mostly by out of state businesses.

2. They have NOT specified EXACTLY what amounts of that money will be spent WHERE.

So? What do you want? A breakdown for each stadium? Or for each new light fixture and urinal with-in each stadium?

If this is really a reason why you don't support the renovations, then perhaps your reasoning is a bit faulty.... and I'm being generous with that.

You need to take a step back and look at the big picture for a change. Your lack of vision is astounding.

[Neely8]

It amazes me how some owners pony up their own bread for their own stadiums like our own Bob Kraft. Yet other owners feel it is right to stick it to the taxpayers. As a taxpayer I would have a really hard time giving 800 million to some rich dude to build him a new toy. As nice as new stadiums are it should be the owners that pay for them......

[Mississippi Neck]

I think it would make sense once KC gets a Major League Baseball franchise.

[The Assassin]

As some of you might know, my hometown Chiefs and Royals are trying to push a vote that will give them almost $800 million between the two teams to remodel and upgrade Arrowhead and Kaufmann Stadiums and also build a "rolling roof" that will be able to cover both cribs. I invite you to read the following website created by the pro-stadium vote honks and see what you think:

http://www.saveourstadiums.com/main.html

I am AGAINST this proposition for the following reasons:

1. They can build two NEW stadiums for the money they're trying to squeeze out of us Jackson County residents.
2. They have NOT specified EXACTLY what amounts of that money will be spent WHERE.

What do you guys think?

I think Las Vegas Royals has a nice ring to it.

There is no way the NFL or the greater Kansas city area will let the Chiefs leave town.

I can see them eventually building new stadium for them but not for both.

[drummer]

Fuck , at least you guys have a possible new stadium to talk about .

[War Wagon]

It amazes me how some owners pony up their own bread for their own stadiums like our own Bob Kraft. Yet other owners feel it is right to stick it to the taxpayers. As a taxpayer I would have a really hard time giving 800 million to some rich dude to build him a new toy. As nice as new stadiums are it should be the owners that pay for them......

Try paying attention to what the question actually is, Neely. The issue at hand is not about building a new stadium, but about complete renovation of two existing 35 year old stadiums owned by the residents of Jackson County, Missouri.

And no, selling the stadiums to the teams is not an option, so don't even bother going there.

Trying to compare Bob Kraft and the Boston area market to the situation here in KC is apples and oranges at best. Ludicrous, at worst.

I'm going with the latter.

[WhatsMyName]

Tear down Arrowhead. Fuck old time's sake. Shit changes and teams with old ass stadiums just can't cut it. Take that money, fuck the rolling roof (which would make KC the faggot capital of the NFL, quite honestly) and build an open aired stadium, even if it costs a little extra coin. Or the city government could do what Cleveland did ten years or so ago and show preferential treatment to one league and say fuck the other, but it's a little late to pull that card.

[kcdave]

Thanks Paul, you saved me alot of typing.

Sorry Wags, but even with all the money and false promises being tossed around, this proposal will not be approved.

If I had to go Vegas right now, I'd say the final tally will read ....

34% for
66% against

[War Wagon]

Actually I'm NOT "deluded", Wags- Pittsburgh built Heinz Field and PNC Park for FAR cheaper than $800 million COMBINED. PNC only cost about $225 million TOTAL to build, and I'm pretty sure that Heinz didn't go over $300 million, but Bri can either refute or verify that figure.

I see that you either forgot or conveniently neglect the point that I made in the prior thread...that of construction costs literally having gone thru the roof the past few years. I don't give a fuck what it cost Pissburg for their cribs, it would cost about 35% more today. That's ok though Paul, because ignorance becomes you.

For $800 million, YOU'RE FUCKING-A RIGHT they should either tear down Arrowhead and the K and rebuild there or locate somewhere else in the KC metro area (Johnson Co. KS would be PERFECT for the Chiefs, and the Royals playing in a brand new crib in downtown KC would help the redevelopment there IMMENSELY).

Bullshit. They have all the infra-structure and parking in place right NOW at the TSC, including a convenient location next to 2 Interstate Hi-ways. Tearing down and rebuilding or relocating elsewhere in the area is not as viable an option as simply renovating.

That's not the point, dumbfuck- we (the taxpayers) shouldn't have to foot EIGHTY THREE PERCENT of the bill to "rebuild" the Truman Sports Complex. The Hunts and Glasses are NOT picking up NEAR their fair share of the tab for this deal, PERIOD.

Dumbfuck, eh? You know, I was going to try keeping this discussion as civil as possible. Well, as civil as an intelligent person can be when tryiing to explain basic common sense to someone who isn't even smart enough to come in out of the rain. Oh, well...I won't pull any more punches then, since that's the way you want it. Dumbfuck.

17% you say? And that not their fair share because YOU say so? Gee, I wonder how much Lamar and Mr. K chipped in back in 1967 when the original bonds were issued? Probably not one red cent, you dipshit, because they weren't going to own the stadiums, just lease them. See, that's the thing about tenants. They expect the owners of a structure to maintain the property, else they up and fucking MOVE!.

Shit, Paul. You should be quite familiar with the whole rental deal, I'm sure. When stuff breaks in the cave in which you reside, I'm sure you also expect the landlord to pay to fix it.

Is any of this penetrating your thick skull?

Yes, a complete breakdown of EVERYTHING they plan on doing to each stadium should be MANDATORY- do you like shelling out tax dollars and NOT having the 1st clue about where it's being spent, Wags??? Neither do I, Sherlock. I work my FUCKING ASS off for everything I earn, and by God I want to know EXACTLY where the fuck my money's going once those rat bastards have it. Last time I checked it's my right as an American.

Christ! It's gonna' cost you maybe $25.00 a year, you stupid bitch. And you, being the stupid bitch fan that you are, are the one who's going to enjoy the benefit of the expense being incurred. Yet all you can do is whine and cry like a kid throwing a tantrum over a small amount of cash that you'd never miss.

INCORRECT- my reasoning is valid, and I'm sticking with it. Just because you're a human lemming that would GLADLY jump off the cliff if Lamar Hunt asked you to is no reason to bash me for what I believe is a bad deal.

Your reasoning sucks Mule dick, and I've torn it limb from limb. I'd bash my own fucking mother if she tried using the same inane reasoning.

Fuck it Paul. If there really ARE enough like minded dumbshit voters like you in Jackson County, then maybe KC doesn't deserve professional sports franchises and all the benefits an area derives from them.

If the Props don't pass and someday soon the teams wind up heading for greener pastures in LA and Portland, I'm sure you'll be smugly happy with yourself for having saved that extra $25.00 a year.

As for me, I'll be cursing you and your short-sighted ilk to the grave.

[Truman]

Here’s what an extra 25 bones a year will gitcha:
1) A bitchin’ new Rams lid, or;
2) 12 pine tree air fresheners to hang from your car’s rear-view mirror, or;
3) 8 boxes of Twinkies

Don’t fuck with a Workin’ Man, Wags…

Seriously, Paulie, plan on ol’ Truman to cancel your vote come Tuesday. Given my preference, I too would rather see the Royals build a new crib downtown and a New Arrowhead arise from the rubble of Kauffman. Unfortunately, those options weren’t included in the ballot language for Tuesday’s referendum.

Let me repeat: New stadiums for the teams is not an option.

So the choice is very simple:

Pony up now for state-of-the-art retrofits locally designed by the best sports architects in the free world and nail down our teams for another 25 years, or;

Stick your head in the sand and hope for something better.

That’s the decision.

We can chuck numbers at each other all night, Paulie, but I’d like to remind you that Mr. Hunt and Mr. Kauffman didn’t spend one red dime on the stadiums when the County broke ground 40 years ago. And in more recent times, I don’t seem to recall Mrs. Frontiere coughing up any of her hard-earned when the good tax payers of the State of Missouri – yes, you, me, and even Wags – ponied up tax dollars to build the TWA Dome to lure the Goats from El Lay. Oh, and name the pro team that will take the ice or the court – as well as part of the price tag - for the new Sprint Center come 2008.

The Giants and Jets are spending $750 M for their new crib in Jersey; the Yanks… Almost one billion. And the Nats can’t even assign a number to their new digs in DC. Still feel good at $800 M.? Great! Where’s it gonna come from? Keitzman’s downtown 810 Zone?

Is the plan perfect?! An emphatic, “Hell no!” But it beats seeing my teams leave town for greener pastures. And that’s why I’m voting “yes” on both measures this Tuesday.

War keeping the Kansas City in the Chiefs and Royals

[Truman]

Tear down Arrowhead. Fuck old time's sake. Shit changes and teams with old ass stadiums just can't cut it. Take that money, fuck the rolling roof (which would make KC the faggot capital of the NFL, quite honestly) and build an open aired stadium, even if it costs a little extra coin...

Oh, you mean like they did in Denver... Build lots of over-priced bars, restaurants, and gear shops; jack up ticket prices and squeeze out all the Joe Fan undesirables;,and suck out any semblance of ambiance that the old place had... And then have long-time season ticket holders and former players bitch about how the new place "just ain't loud enough anymore." Good one.

BTW, Cowboy: Is it more "faggot" to lock up a Superbowl, an All-Star Game, and the promise of future NCAA Final Fours and Big XII Championships through a little civic elbow grease; or to have your team's owner basically laughed out of the room because his open-air stadium in his cold-weather city will never be considered for such events?

Just wonderin'.

[Felix]

Oh, you mean like they did in Denver... Build lots of over-priced bars, restaurants, and gear shops; jack up ticket prices and squeeze out all the Joe Fan undesirables;,and suck out any semblance of ambiance that the old place had... And then have long-time season ticket holders and former players bitch about how the new place "just ain't loud enough anymore."

Bullshit, the bars aren't overpriced......

[kcdave]

Let me repeat: New stadiums for the teams is not an option.

Tim, what facts do you have to support that statement?

The Giants and Jets are spending $750 M for their new crib in Jersey; the Yanks… Almost one billion. And the Nats can’t even assign a number to their new digs in DC. Still feel good at $800 M.?

Do you still live here in KC? Did you bump your head or something? Do you realize that basically whatever the hell we do here costs 1/2 of what it does in NY or DC?

Screw all of this. Who stole Tru's password? I know that guy, and he is a helluva lot smarter than whomever posted that garbage.

[Truman]

Let me repeat: New stadiums for the teams is not an option.

Tim, what facts do you have to support that statement?

The Giants and Jets are spending $750 M for their new crib in Jersey; the Yanks… Almost one billion. And the Nats can’t even assign a number to their new digs in DC. Still feel good at $800 M.?

Do you still live here in KC? Did you bump your head or something? Do you realize that basically whatever the hell we do here costs 1/2 of what it does in NY or DC?

Screw all of this. Who stole Tru's password? I know that guy, and he is a helluva lot smarter than whomever posted that garbage.

Thought you lived north of the River, Dave... You got a dog in this fight, or are you simply screaming out "helpful" coaching hints like a soccer mom at her kid's first tee ball game?

Didn't know a bad gizzard led to ADD. Unless the County Legislature slipped in ballot language overnight for the construction of brand new stadiums, building new barns for our teams is not a taxpayer option in this Tuesday's referendum. But since you're a stickler for details... The fucking ballot supports my previous statement.

Look, Dave, I stated my preference for downtown baseball and a retractable roofed New Arrowhead. And you very well know that there wasn't enough consensus - read: not enough suitcases full of cash were exchanged between Big Business and the County's politicians - to cobble together a proposal providing this option to the taxpayers. Retrofit is what we got. Our side lost. So do you take your ball and go home crying? Trust me, the real crying starts when R. James re-registers under his new nic (JimmyChief?!) and posts his sick, new Los Angeles Chiefs avatar...

[BSmack]

Trust me, the real crying starts when R. James re-registers under his new nic (JimmyChief?!) and posts his sick, new Los Angeles Chiefs avatar...

I'm beginning to think the NFL doesn't want a team in LA. It's far more profitable to hang the threat of moving a team to LA over the taxpayers of the other 32 NFL cities than it is to have a team actualy IN Los Angeles.

[Aaron in Tucson]

Random thoughts of the unthinkable…

The Los Angeles Chiefs - Sounds like it has police connotations.
Maybe they could play a pick-up basketball game with the Los Angeles Kings.
And then after the game they can all head over to Denney’s for a gland slam breakfast. Sounds like a riot.

Will the Los Angeles market support the hated Chiefs? Maybe.

I’d hate to see the violence in LA when the Oakland Raiders visit every year.
Do you really think that the gang bangin’ cock roaches that clung to the Raiders back in the LA days are going to let their fair city become a breeding ground for Chiefs fans? Trust me, those cock roaches are still there and they will live to infest and overrun the dwelling that reeks of rancid ketchup and mustard.

The afc west would certainly be the afc west.

What about our Red Faith friends?
Will their Faith crumble if their God heads to sunny southern California?
Who will follow with their Red Faith intact and who will find another God to worship?

[War Wagon]

Seriously, Paulie, plan on ol’ Truman to cancel your vote come Tuesday.

I doubt Paul even knows where his designated polling place is Tru. Or he'll get lost on the way and wind up in mid-town around 39th and Agnes and be all like *gulp*...I KNEW I shouldn't have taken that left turn at Van Brunt and Manchester. Once he does finally manage to show up at the correct place (with a busted sideview mirrow and three hubcaps missing), he'll probably mis-read the ballot question and vote totally opposite of what he intended. That's what I'm counting on from many of the dimwits who oppose these Propositions.

Regardless of Paulina's intent, Tru...RACK EVERY LAST WORD that you brought in support of the questions.

It's quite a relief to hear the voice of reason coming from Jackson County taxpayer for a change, after all the garbage I've listened to and read. I know there are many more out there who feel likewise. They might not be as vocal as the whining and crying short-sighted dipshits ('sup dave?), but they certainly exist in greater numbers.

That's my hope anyway. My hope is also that the ones who really care about the future of KC will also be the one's more apt to get out and vote, while the naysayers sit at home and rant and rave about how unfair life is.

[War Wagon]

What about our Red Faith friends?
Will their Faith crumble if their God heads to sunny southern California?
Who will follow with their Red Faith intact and who will find another God to worship?

If the Chiefs leave KC, the NFL will no longer be relevant, and the Chiefs will cease to exist in mine eyes.

Might as well turn in my password and key to the executive washroom to orc vis-a-vis this BOARD as well, because I simply won't give a fuck anymore.

ps; Where the HELL is Scotty and WHY isn't HE pontificating on this topic?

I know that guy is as militant an anti-tax preacher as they come (and a Jackson County voter), so his opinion might carry some weight and shed some light on how this vote is going to turn out.

[War Wagon]

Do you realize that basically whatever the hell we do here costs 1/2 of what it does in NY or DC?

Horseshit.

Construction materials cost the same regardless of where you're building. The labor may be cheaper, but no where close to 1/2 of what it costs elsewhere.

Speaking of realizations...I've just realized that JDork was right about you. You are a gibbering dumbfuck.

[KC Scott]

The opposition to the tax has spent a whopping $521 while I've heard Glass & Hunt tossed about a Mill towards the vote yes contingent.

Between the "Portland" Royals and "LA" Chiefs bullshit, the scare tactics have probably worked and the vote will probably pass Tuesday.

I listened to the debate last night driving home and still heard no one address why the bill didn't include more from the teams in the way of PSLs (they said it was beacuse this is a remo rather than a new build) or why users fees (read ticket prices) aren't taxed more heavily.

Guess those outstanding negotiators we put at the table just couldn't muster the balls to play ball.

None of this even begins to address the fact that we lose out on revenue beacuse there is no economic development around the stadiums (Yo Quiero Taco Bell?) - Jackson Co isn't any smarter beacuse of that Holiday inn on George Brett Blvd, either. Must be the Price Chopper lobby keeping it down, huh?

Oh yea, to all of you in the surrounding counties, Thanks for nothing. Dorothy got a free ride thanks to the tornado, glad to see Johnson county follow suit.

My disgust of all things professional sport is only exceeded by my disgust of the Kool Aid fed by Local Gov and the open lips of the constinuency to swallow.

[Joe in PB]

It won't be long before San Diego has to make a similar decision.

What do I say?

Fuckin' build it.

I doubt the Chiefs move to LA. On the other hand the Chargers I think would make the jump fairly quickly. What will happen if the Chargers leave town? The Q will be torn down because it costs the city @ $6,000,000 a year to maintain, and there are no amount of tractor pulls, moto cross events or SD ST. football games during the year to even come close to breaking even.

Instead of a compromise by leasing the land for 30 years (basically for nothing) to Spanos for a new stadium (which he would build) and @ 6,000 condos and a shopping center. San Diego will be blessed with 10-15,000 new condos, more traffic jams and zero NFL football courtesy of our piss poor city leadership.

[kcdave]

Scott, was that a "yes," or "no," vote? You, Tim and Paul are the only ones in this thread that will actually a voting on the issue.

[KC Scott]

That's a "I will be in Vegas Tuesday and am not motivated enough to get an absentee ballot" answer.

If I was here and voting, it would be No.

[War Wagon]

That's what I thought, $cooty.

Thanks for playing.

You offer nothing but pablum.

[Mississippi Neck]

BTW, Cowboy: Is it more "faggot" to lock up a Superbowl, an All-Star Game, and the promise of future NCAA Final Fours and Big XII Championships through a little civic elbow grease; or to have your team's owner basically laughed out of the room because his open-air stadium in his cold-weather city will never be considered for such events?

Just wonderin'.

Don't expect a cogent response to that query..

[KC Scott]

Call it what you want Wags, you asked for the opinion.

Bottom line is All Jackson County is on the hook for a deal that most definetly could have been better negotiated.

Is the Tax gonna hurt me? No. By my income rate it works out to $150 per year. BFD. My opinion is Not based on the "I'll do anything to keep the teams" sentiment. I really don't think they'll move if it did fail. Save your Cleveland, Baltimore, Rams Stories beacuse they're apples and oranges:

The Teams are not paying their fair share.
The surrounding counties are not contributing.
This does nothing to enhance economic development of Jackson County around the stadiums.

Those are my points, as usual your too stupid or drunk to get the humor

What the lease does is lock the teams up and we get a few events if the roof passes.

Count me in the group that would rather see KC play in a Super Bowl, than a Super Bowl Played in KC.

[War Wagon]

Bottom line is All Jackson County is on the hook for a deal that most definetly could have been better negotiated.

Ah yes, the old "I want something for nothing" strategy that's always doomed to failure. So tell me Mr. Scott the fearless negotiator, what should the terms have been that would have suited you better?

My opinion is Not based on the "I'll do anything to keep the teams" sentiment. I really don't think they'll move if it did fail.

Maybe not immediately, but you know as well as I that something has to be done to upgrade the complex, or sooner rather than later, they WILL leave.

Save your Cleveland, Baltimore, Rams Stories beacuse they're apples and oranges:

How so? Please elaborate. I see direct correlations between how those cities lost their teams, and what could happen here. Actually, I see even more dire consequences, because those teams were wanting brand new stadiums, not just renovations.

The Teams are not paying their fair share.

Did you and Paul put your heads together and determine that little nugget of info? Why is it incumbent for a tenant to even pitch in anything towards maintaining or improving an owners property?

The surrounding counties are not contributing.

So? They don't own the stadiums, Jackson county does. But they damn sure spend major cash in Jackson when they exercise the priveledge of attending games. FWIW, I voted for the last bi-state proposal, and would again.

This does nothing to enhance economic development of Jackson County around the stadiums.

So? Let 'em rot?

Those are my points, as usual your too stupid or drunk to get the humor.

What humor? Your points suck anyways.

Count me in the group that would rather see KC play in a Super Bowl, than a Super Bowl Played in KC.

Ditto, but it will be hard for KC to play in a Super Bowl when we don't have a team.

[Truman]

Whoopsie! Edit.

[Truman]

Scott:

I do not disagree with a single criticism that you posted in opposition of Tuesday's referendum. It would have been nice to see the teams pony up more cash. The Taco Bell and the new Texaco Starmart on Blue Ridge Cutoff are not exactly post-game destination points. And the surrounding four metro counties - specifically Johnson - can all suck me. But as for whether the County could have negotiated a better deal...

I'm gonna guess that you were either on the road to West Des Moines or Omaha (or busily posting on an IBB message board :wink: ) and unable to bring your mad negotiating skeels to the bargaining table the day that Hunt and Glass "got over" on the County.

Both teams blanched at the thought of user fees applied to ticket prices before grudgingly conceeding this point to the County. And both agreed to pay any cost over-runs on the project. When is the last time a big ticket civic project in this town came in on budget? I mean, ever? Hell, the Sprint Center was $20M over budget before they ever broke ground. As County Legislator and former Chiefs-great Fred Arbanas said, "It's not a great deal for the County, but a fair one."

... I really don't think they'll move if it did fail. Save your Cleveland, Baltimore, Rams Stories beacuse they're apples and oranges...

No they're not. How much money did Bob Irsay, Bud Adams, Art Modell, and Georgia Frontiere pledge towards the contstruction of new facilites in their respective former cities? How much did they contribute towards the construction of new stadiums in their new cities?

How many bones do you think Lamar Hunt would have to pitch in towards a new crib in El Lay? And even money sez that you'll drop more coin in Vegas come Tuesday than the Glass family will on a new stadium based in the same area code.

Do I really think the teams are guaranteed to move should the vote fail? How the hell would I, or anyone else for that matter, know? You (and sports talk stations with downtown restaurant interests) however, cannot guarantee that they won't.

I can't wait to hear how "Carl Peterson was seen having lunch with the mayor of San Antonio," or read that "David Glass just returned from a golf weekend with a Nevada Senator."

What I do know is that a "yes" vote locks down the teams for the next 25 years and terminates endless speculation, rumor, and innuendo. And that's why this referendum will get my vote.

[SunCoastSooner]

I'd like to an artist's rendering of this rolling roof.

[WhatsMyName]

Tear down Arrowhead. Fuck old time's sake. Shit changes and teams with old ass stadiums just can't cut it. Take that money, fuck the rolling roof (which would make KC the faggot capital of the NFL, quite honestly) and build an open aired stadium, even if it costs a little extra coin...

Oh, you mean like they did in Denver... Build lots of over-priced bars, restaurants, and gear shops; jack up ticket prices and squeeze out all the Joe Fan undesirables;,and suck out any semblance of ambiance that the old place had... And then have long-time season ticket holders and former players bitch about how the new place "just ain't loud enough anymore." Good one.

BTW, Cowboy: Is it more "faggot" to lock up a Superbowl, an All-Star Game, and the promise of future NCAA Final Fours and Big XII Championships through a little civic elbow grease; or to have your team's owner basically laughed out of the room because his open-air stadium in his cold-weather city will never be considered for such events?

Just wonderin'.

I'm sure if hosting a Super Bowl meant a goddamn thing to Pat Bowlen like it does to Lamar Cunt, we'd have built a faggoty looking roof just like you.

The reality is we like our football outdoors here in Denver, with snow, wind and mud. Get ready to say bye-bye to all that good stuff in KC at the first sign of a blizzard or a torrential downpour, because you can bet your ass that roof WILL be covering that field. Shit, you may as well call yourselves St. Louis Rams West.

BTW, considering the enormous cost of this piece of shit rolling pile of dung, I'm sure both Chief and Royal fans WON'T suffer a rise in ticket prices, a decrease in ambiance and the perpetual bitching about why Arrowroof isn't as loud as Arrowhead. LOL!

[KC Scott]

Both teams blanched at the thought of user fees applied to ticket prices before grudgingly conceeding this point to the County. And both agreed to pay any cost over-runs on the project. When is the last time a big ticket civic project in this town came in on budget? I mean, ever? Hell, the Sprint Center was $20M over budget before they ever broke ground. As County Legislator and former Chiefs-great Fred Arbanas said, "It's not a great deal for the County, but a fair one."

The premise for negotiation was JackCo would be in default on 12-31-06 beacuse the 1990 Lease called for the Stadiums to be maintained in "state of the Art" condition. Now, according to the KC Star that would have only cost $80M to fufill this lease.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14242743.htm

Remember the current lease was to run until 2015.

What developed, instead of a vote to simply get the $ 80M necessary to keep from default, was this 25 year mess.

The teams are both making money. The Chiefs are made $33M profit in 2005 - I believe the number I heard for the Royals was $3M. Neither club had bitched about the revenue numbers from the stadiums - Arrowhead is maxed on luxury suites and the Royals are the cheapest ticket in MLB.

What you had was an inept county commission that couldn't regulate the funds, that then got spooked that one or both of the teams might bail. Funny how neither team said that. What they did say was "sure we'll sign to keep making buckets of cash and by the way, widen the concourses so we can sell more $8.00 beers"

Go look at what the major costs are in proposal A - it's widening the fucking concourses for more concessions and adding more toilets so you can make room for more concessions.

That's some real skilled negotiations.

My Plan? - I'd have put the $80 mil on the ballot and kept negotiating a better plan.

What kind of better plan?

Well for starters, I'd offer the stadiums to the teams. A lot of people have suggested this and all I hear is they never considered it. I'd also have offered them a tax break based on their annual upkeep. So why would the teams want to own them? Well for starters they would get the revenue generation from events like Final Fours, Super Bowls, etc.

I'm sure they'd also do a far better job with things like naming rights and booking out to concerts, revivals, Monster trucks and all the other etc. we uns like here in KC.

Next, I'd get started with the developers and give some TIF to whomever came up with a plan to buy up everything on Blue Ridge Cutoff from I-70 to Raytown road and start developing restauarnts, Bars, etc. My take is there is money to be made developing the area.

The smartest plan would still be for the Royals to go downtown, then develop but we know that won't happen.. And since it won't, my plan makes more sense.

I've been to Denver and seen the Rockies and the Avalanche a Pepsi center. Same with the Cards and Blues in St. Louis. In both of those cities the games are the centerpiece of the day. Go to Lodo or the Landing - eat, watch the game, then have a beer afterwards while traffic dies down. Plenty of Hotel space for the out of towners too. Add a Casino and a nearby golf course and you have a convention destination.

Like I said, it makes too much sense. Therefore it will never happen in KC.

...

No they're not. How much money did Bob Irsay, Bud Adams, Art Modell, and Georgia Frontiere pledge towards the contstruction of new facilites in their respective former cities? How much did they contribute towards the construction of new stadiums in their new cities?

Blanket statement for all 4 - They played in OLD stadiums that did not have Luxury Boxes which were a major revenue source. The Browns and Maybe the Colts were the only ones selling out consistently.

Like I said, go back and look to see if you've ever heard Lamar bitch about revenues. Answer is No. He's just taking what the county is offering up here.

How many bones do you think Lamar Hunt would have to pitch in towards a new crib in El Lay?

Not a dime. The NFL will build it for the Aint's or Chargers. That's beacuse the city of LA had the balls to say no.

Do I really think the teams are guaranteed to move should the vote fail? How the hell would I, or anyone else for that matter, know? You (and sports talk stations with downtown restaurant interests) however, cannot guarantee that they won't.

No guarantees, I'll agree. But ask yourself if you made the coin the Chiefs do, would you really consider pulling up stake? The Royals? find me a city that will build them a park now that DC is off the table. And forget about Vegas. No pro team will base there - unless they stop making book.

What I do know is that a "yes" vote locks down the teams for the next 25 years and terminates endless speculation, rumor, and innuendo. And that's why this referendum will get my vote.

And were I here, I'd vote no.

Not that it will matter beacuse most of the sheep are afraid of that big bad relocation wolf.

[Truman]

I'm sure if hosting a Super Bowl meant a goddamn thing to Pat Bowlen like it does to Lamar Cunt, we'd have built a faggoty looking roof just like you.

The reality is we like our football outdoors here in Denver, with snow, wind and mud. Get ready to say bye-bye to all that good stuff in KC at the first sign of a blizzard or a torrential downpour, because you can bet your ass that roof WILL be covering that field. Shit, you may as well call yourselves St. Louis Rams West.

BTW, considering the enormous cost of this piece of shit rolling pile of dung, I'm sure both Chief and Royal fans WON'T suffer a rise in ticket prices, a decrease in ambiance and the perpetual bitching about why Arrowroof isn't as loud as Arrowhead. LOL!

"LOL," eh? More like BOL - "Bray Out Loud" - but I digress...

Far be it for me to be the harbinger of bad tidings, you pseudonymically-challenged Loser, but Bowel-End DID "raise a stink" at the last NFL owner's meeting because his cold-weather Elwayville wasn't a part of any serious future Superbowl considerations.

As for weather, the new roof only comes into play for special events, and kicking the shit out of your beloved Mules hardly qualifies. Since your Donkeys haven't won a December road game at Thunderhead since Horse-face played at Stanford, I hardly think the specter of playing Dungver enough for the Chiefs and the County to consider foregoing the expense to cover the bowl with the new roof.

Blizzards and torrential downpours? OK, I'll play... I can only imagine the bitching and caterwauling that would arise from Muleville after losing to the Chiefs in a hermetically-sealed Arrowhead. Kee-rist, you losers bitch enough about the noise here as is.

[War Wagon]

Is the Tax gonna hurt me? No. By my income rate it works out to $150 per year.

Forgive me for picking out this little nugget, but it illustrates Scott's overwhelming devotion of being impressed with...$cott.

Dude...KC $cott..., as great a go getter as you are, I doubt you pull down $250k a year, which is what you are saying with this statement.

Full of shit much?

[Truman]

The premise for negotiation was JackCo would be in default on 12-31-06 beacuse the 1990 Lease called for the Stadiums to be maintained in "state of the Art" condition. Now, according to the KC Star that would have only cost $80M to fufill this lease.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14242743.htm

Remember the current lease was to run until 2015.

What developed, instead of a vote to simply get the $ 80M necessary to keep from default, was this 25 year mess.

The teams are both making money. The Chiefs are made $33M profit in 2005 - I believe the number I heard for the Royals was $3M. Neither club had bitched about the revenue numbers from the stadiums - Arrowhead is maxed on luxury suites and the Royals are the cheapest ticket in MLB.

What you had was an inept county commission that couldn't regulate the funds, that then got spooked that one or both of the teams might bail. Funny how neither team said that. What they did say was "sure we'll sign to keep making buckets of cash and by the way, widen the concourses so we can sell more $8.00 beers"

Go look at what the major costs are in proposal A - it's widening the fucking concourses for more concessions and adding more toilets so you can make room for more concessions.

That's some real skilled negotiations.

My Plan? - I'd have put the $80 mil on the ballot and kept negotiating a better plan.

What kind of better plan?

Well for starters, I'd offer the stadiums to the teams. A lot of people have suggested this and all I hear is they never considered it. I'd also have offered them a tax break based on their annual upkeep. So why would the teams want to own them? Well for starters they would get the revenue generation from events like Final Fours, Super Bowls, etc.

I'm sure they'd also do a far better job with things like naming rights and booking out to concerts, revivals, Monster trucks and all the other etc. we uns like here in KC.

Next, I'd get started with the developers and give some TIF to whomever came up with a plan to buy up everything on Blue Ridge Cutoff from I-70 to Raytown road and start developing restauarnts, Bars, etc. My take is there is money to be made developing the area.

The smartest plan would still be for the Royals to go downtown, then develop but we know that won't happen.. And since it won't, my plan makes more sense.

I've been to Denver and seen the Rockies and the Avalanche a Pepsi center. Same with the Cards and Blues in St. Louis. In both of those cities the games are the centerpiece of the day. Go to Lodo or the Landing - eat, watch the game, then have a beer afterwards while traffic dies down. Plenty of Hotel space for the out of towners too. Add a Casino and a nearby golf course and you have a convention destination.

Like I said, it makes too much sense. Therefore it will never happen in KC.

...

No they're not. How much money did Bob Irsay, Bud Adams, Art Modell, and Georgia Frontiere pledge towards the contstruction of new facilites in their respective former cities? How much did they contribute towards the construction of new stadiums in their new cities?

Blanket statement for all 4 - They played in OLD stadiums that did not have Luxury Boxes which were a major revenue source. The Browns and Maybe the Colts were the only ones selling out consistently.

Like I said, go back and look to see if you've ever heard Lamar bitch about revenues. Answer is No. He's just taking what the county is offering up here.

How many bones do you think Lamar Hunt would have to pitch in towards a new crib in El Lay?

Not a dime. The NFL will build it for the Aint's or Chargers. That's beacuse the city of LA had the balls to say no.

Do I really think the teams are guaranteed to move should the vote fail? How the hell would I, or anyone else for that matter, know? You (and sports talk stations with downtown restaurant interests) however, cannot guarantee that they won't.

No guarantees, I'll agree. But ask yourself if you made the coin the Chiefs do, would you really consider pulling up stake? The Royals? find me a city that will build them a park now that DC is off the table. And forget about Vegas. No pro team will base there - unless they stop making book.

What I do know is that a "yes" vote locks down the teams for the next 25 years and terminates endless speculation, rumor, and innuendo. And that's why this referendum will get my vote.

And were I here, I'd vote no.

Not that it will matter beacuse most of the sheep are afraid of that big bad relocation wolf.

Scott:

Nice thought, but the $80M in improvements to bring the leases up to snuff was rejected out-of-hand by the Chiefs and Royals. And effective 12/31, the County is in default. As for wider concourses to sell more $8.00 beers... Duh. That's exactly what this whole referendum is about - more revenue streams for the teams.

Couple a points, and then maybe we can agree to disagree:

I KNOW the teams are profitable. You assert that they wouldn't consider moving because they are. I assert that they would consider moving because they are. A quick review:

As long-suffering Chiefs Fans, hasn't the lament of late always been that Lamar and Carl care more about a full stadium and a jammed parking lot as opposed to post-season success? And if I hear again about how many regular-season victories we notched during the 90's, I'm gonna puke. And what about Mr. "We Will Not be Undersold" David Glass? Bottom line is, both of these fuckers would block traffic to chase a nickel rolling down a storm sewer. Lamar would have zero issue with LA embossed arrowhead logos, and Glass would need a wheelbarrow to haul out all the potential retraction cash....

And with all of the development presently going on in Eastern Jack, do you really believe a bit of TIF money would be enough to incent development along Blue Ridge Cutoff? As is, hell no. Approve the retrofit and build the roof... Maybe another hotel or two, and related ancillary businesses. Again, it's a crapshoot. For some reason. I have trouble envisioning Westport incarnate down a six-lane boulevard. But we got nothin' as is.

Yeah, sheep may vote yes out of fear. But count on stubborn-ass Missouri mules to vote no out of ignorance.

[Truman]

Is the Tax gonna hurt me? No. By my income rate it works out to $150 per year.

Forgive me for picking out this little nugget, but it illustrates Scott's overwhelming devotion of being impressed with...$cott.

Dude...KC $cott..., as great a go getter as you are, I doubt you pull down $250k a year, which is what you are saying with this statement.

Full of shit much?

Pick another fight, Wags. Scotty is what he is, and major props to him.

War Living the American Dream

[kcdave]

War Living the American Dream

Fuck, I was about to go on a rant about how this issue will fail, and what should be done afterwards, then Wags had to go accountant on us.

Wags, as far as I know ........ Scott made $0.00 posting on this board last year, and paid $0.00 in taxes while posting here, same as you and me. Save the admins, who may make a buck, but in reality prolly come out of pocket. I dont know anyone that makes 1 cent posting here. What anyone makes away from here.......... is of no concern to me.

I just spent 2 minutes telling someone what I thought. I didnt get a fucking cent in doing so, but I didnt pay a fucking cent in taxes doing it either. Thats what I call living the American dream.

[KC Scott]

Nice thought, but the $80M in improvements to bring the leases up to snuff was rejected out-of-hand by the Chiefs and Royals. And effective 12/31, the County is in default.

Yea, I read some more and your right. They have to have the $80m by Jan 31, not just a plan for it.

As for wider concourses to sell more $8.00 beers... Duh. That's exactly what this whole referendum is about - more revenue streams for the teams.

I'd wonder what the financial projections are for the revenue increases?
Talking just the Chiefs, I wonder what the average fan spends per game on concessions?

The only study I could find was the Chargers 2002 - $28 per fan

http://www.sandiego.gov/chargersissues/ ... 021107.pdf

Let's say the Chiefs are there and multiply $28 x 78,000 fans x 10 games per season = $21,840,000

Shit!

At 60% Margin that's 13 Mil profit.

Still wonder how much more they;ll get out of Joe Zubaz, but since joe Jackson County is paying for it, it's all found money anyway.

Yet another notch in the NO bedpost.

As long-suffering Chiefs Fans, hasn't the lament of late always been that Lamar and Carl care more about a full stadium and a jammed parking lot as opposed to post-season success? And if I hear again about how many regular-season victories we notched during the 90's, I'm gonna puke. And what about Mr. "We Will Not be Undersold" David Glass? Bottom line is, both of these fuckers would block traffic to chase a nickel rolling down a storm sewer. Lamar would have zero issue with LA embossed arrowhead logos, and Glass would need a wheelbarrow to haul out all the potential retraction cash....

I won't disagree they'd be outta here faster than Nati through a Wags if a Bigger, Better Deal was out there. But that's my point, there isn't.

Think about this for a sec....... If they had a BBD wouldn't they just have kept their collective mouths shut and then broke the lease? Why pump the cash in the vote yes campaign if there were more money somewhere else?

I don't see any city where they are gonna pop 78K per game, after buying the PSLs that would inevitably be part of the new stadium package. Like I said, it's the relo boogieman.

And with all of the development presently going on in Eastern Jack, do you really believe a bit of TIF money would be enough to incent development along Blue Ridge Cutoff? As is, hell no. Approve the retrofit and build the roof... Maybe another hotel or two, and related ancillary businesses. Again, it's a crapshoot. For some reason. I have trouble envisioning Westport incarnate down a six-lane boulevard. But we got nothin' as is.

Yea, maybe that's the ticket. Maybe the roof, the HOF and the stadium club will generate enough to stir some development. Hell except for gameday you could pitch a tent on Blue Ridge Cutoff. Maybe Wallyworld will keep going west and buy up all 40 Hwy. That's David Glass' master plan - He want's Cool Crest and Country Meadows GC to create an entertainment mecca

Yeah, sheep may vote yes out of fear. But count on stubborn-ass Missouri mules to vote no out of ignorance.

Eyy Awww -

[WhatsMyName]

As for weather, the new roof only comes into play for special events, and kicking the shit out of your beloved Mules hardly qualifies. Since your Donkeys haven't won a December road game at Thunderhead since Horse-face played at Stanford, I hardly think the specter of playing Dungver enough for the Chiefs and the County to consider foregoing the expense to cover the bowl with the new roof.

LOL, yeah, because it can't possibly rain or be windy during the non-December games that we DID come into KC and beat your fuckin' ass in years past. My bad!

Whatever. I'm merely commenting on the pussy-ass nature of playing under a roof in general. Real football, the kind I played as a kid (and hopefully you, ya fuckin' flamer) was never played indoors but out in the mud and grass outdoors. It's only natural, seeing as how most young kids didn't consider playing Smear the Queer in their living rooms. But let's all thank Lamar Cunt for turning football into...Trivial Pursuit, Operation, Clue and just about any goddamn boring game played in your goddamn house. Fag.