There a number of different threads floating around here pertaining to the Big 12. I have a few things to say, so I figured I'd just consolidate my thoughts into one post.....
Kansas - The Villanova game was the worst game in total that I have seen in the last 20+ years of watching Kansas hoops. There was no effort, no offensive execution, horrific defense and no mental toughness. I hope this is a speed bump and an attention-getter for the team. Considering the success this senior class has seen, I'll take that route for now. And Skull, the Kentucky win was at Rupp and without Wayne Simien. Kansas also won at Iowa State, so they can play on the road.
Is this team a Final Four team...I think so, primarily based on the fact that these seniors have been to two Final Fours and lost an overtime Elite Eight game. Of course, I've been wrong before!!
Oklahoma - That was as impressive a first eight minutes of a college, or any other league, basketball game as I have seen in quite some time. Very nice win for the Sooners, who look to be coming together nicely. The addition of Gray and the return to health of Bookout have made the Sooners a very tough team.
Big 12 Champs - Somebody posed the question, who do you consider the Big 12 Champs, the regular season or tourney champs? I would answer that both squads could probably lay claim to the title. I personally think winning the regular season title is a greater achievement and shows excellence over a longer period of time. The post season tourney means different things to different teams and as a result, it can skew results. However, the powers that be have dictated that the tourney champ is "true" champion, so I guess that is the case. Personally, I don't agree but whatever. If two different teams win they probably both call themselves conference champs, and that really isn't bad.
Kirk Hinrich - This is me patting myself on the back. I remember when Hinrich came out several people on this board were quite vocal about how much he would "suck" in the NBA. Anyway........
Random Thoughts.....Big 12
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TheJON
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Mook,
No disrespect, but Colorado of all teams just won at Iowa State. ISU is terrible.
I think Kansas is good, but overrated. Just my opinion. I think there are 10-12 teams that are better than them. With PJ Tucker eligible, Texas was the best team in the Big-12. Now, I think OU is. Kansas 3rd. Okie State is the most overrated team in the nation. They're not even Top 20. Their best win was against Syracuse and anyone that watched that game knows that they just happened to play the Cuse on an off night. I remember seeing Syracuse miss wide open layups and short jump shots all night.
Kansas will go to the Sweet 16. Oklahoma Elite 8....maybe even Final 4. Texas also will be a Sweet 16 team even without Tucker. Okie State will be 1 and done.
As for Hinrich, I remember that argument. DC tried telling me that Steve Blake would be a better NBA prospect than him. I, of course, laughed in his face and said Hinrich would be very good in the NBA. DC, in turn, laughed at me and called me a moron for saying that. As a Bulls fan, I like having Hinrich on the team, but would like to see his mediocre field goal percentage go up. Not that it matters right now, as the team is finally winning!!
No disrespect, but Colorado of all teams just won at Iowa State. ISU is terrible.
I think Kansas is good, but overrated. Just my opinion. I think there are 10-12 teams that are better than them. With PJ Tucker eligible, Texas was the best team in the Big-12. Now, I think OU is. Kansas 3rd. Okie State is the most overrated team in the nation. They're not even Top 20. Their best win was against Syracuse and anyone that watched that game knows that they just happened to play the Cuse on an off night. I remember seeing Syracuse miss wide open layups and short jump shots all night.
Kansas will go to the Sweet 16. Oklahoma Elite 8....maybe even Final 4. Texas also will be a Sweet 16 team even without Tucker. Okie State will be 1 and done.
As for Hinrich, I remember that argument. DC tried telling me that Steve Blake would be a better NBA prospect than him. I, of course, laughed in his face and said Hinrich would be very good in the NBA. DC, in turn, laughed at me and called me a moron for saying that. As a Bulls fan, I like having Hinrich on the team, but would like to see his mediocre field goal percentage go up. Not that it matters right now, as the team is finally winning!!
Re: Random Thoughts.....Big 12
My new Hinrich enriched diet:Mook wrote: Kirk Hinrich - This is me patting myself on the back. I remember when Hinrich came out several people on this board were quite vocal about how much he would "suck" in the NBA. Anyway........
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
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the_ouskull
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King Crimson
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i'll never understand why OSU chose numbers on their unis that look like one of those cutting-edge LED alarm clock-radios from 1982.
Oklahoma has a lot of work to do on the road before being coronated as the best in the B12 or Elite 8. IMHO. But, this team has really showed heart over the last month. Interior passing was amazing last night!
noticed Iowa lost to N'Western tonight. a team that lost to Colorado "of all teams", Jon.
Oklahoma has a lot of work to do on the road before being coronated as the best in the B12 or Elite 8. IMHO. But, this team has really showed heart over the last month. Interior passing was amazing last night!
noticed Iowa lost to N'Western tonight. a team that lost to Colorado "of all teams", Jon.
""On a lonely planet spinning its way toward damnation amid the fear and despair of a broken human race, who is left to fight for all that is good and pure and gets you smashed for under a fiver? Yes, it's the surprising adventures of me, Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar!"
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MisterTwister
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Hey fellas, longtime .... no post. The Eustachy debacle coming on the heals of the 2002 football meltdown left me in a fetal position and unresponsive to medication until recently. But I think I'm coming around again. Therapy has taught me to accept who I am. I am an Iowa State fan and as such I am destined to be a LOSER the rest of my sorry existence.
I've realized that in any given scenario, imagine the worst possible thing to happen to your team and accept it as fate when it comes to fruition.
Anyway, I've lurked long enough.
The Cyclones are terrible. If Floyd or Eustachy had this much talent on their teams at one time they certainly wouldn't be sitting at home in March like Morgan will be. I look for the AD at ISU to be gone and one more year under Wayne's World.
Oh an btw Jon notice any moving trucks in Alfords driveway yet?
I've realized that in any given scenario, imagine the worst possible thing to happen to your team and accept it as fate when it comes to fruition.
Anyway, I've lurked long enough.
The Cyclones are terrible. If Floyd or Eustachy had this much talent on their teams at one time they certainly wouldn't be sitting at home in March like Morgan will be. I look for the AD at ISU to be gone and one more year under Wayne's World.
Oh an btw Jon notice any moving trucks in Alfords driveway yet?
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TheJON
- Iowa State Grad
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Twister,
I doubt Van De Velde is gone anytime soon. He is getting a bad rap because of the Eustachy thing, but he only did what had to be done. If Wayne ever wants to win, he's gotta go out and get some shooters. If ISU had Haluska this year, they'd contend for the Big-12 title. But we're glad to have him instead!!
As for Alford....I'm ready to head up to Hy-Vee to pick up some cardboard boxes to help Steve move immediately. Now, if he makes the NCAA tournament, I'll take the boxes back!
I doubt Van De Velde is gone anytime soon. He is getting a bad rap because of the Eustachy thing, but he only did what had to be done. If Wayne ever wants to win, he's gotta go out and get some shooters. If ISU had Haluska this year, they'd contend for the Big-12 title. But we're glad to have him instead!!
As for Alford....I'm ready to head up to Hy-Vee to pick up some cardboard boxes to help Steve move immediately. Now, if he makes the NCAA tournament, I'll take the boxes back!
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MisterTwister
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Jon, BVD had a LOT more to do with what happen than you seem to believe. It was BVD negligence that allowed Larrygate to become the scandal it did. It was BVD that bungled the hiring of Larry's replacement. It's BVD that can't seem to win over the atheletic supporters or fans. No, I think the guy is in over his head.
You're right about the outside shooting though. Not much he could have done to prevent in. With Sullivan on the floor and John Neal putting in good minutes, the glaring weakness didn't seem to be as pressing last year and the big men they had just haven't been coming around. But the bench is loaded next year.
I look at it like the Raveling years at Iowa. He came in, recruited like hell, loaded them up then split. Davis (a very good coach) came in and turned them into winners. I only hope ISU can find another quality coach like Davis. His years aren't looking so bad to Iowa fan now are they ?
You're right about the outside shooting though. Not much he could have done to prevent in. With Sullivan on the floor and John Neal putting in good minutes, the glaring weakness didn't seem to be as pressing last year and the big men they had just haven't been coming around. But the bench is loaded next year.
I look at it like the Raveling years at Iowa. He came in, recruited like hell, loaded them up then split. Davis (a very good coach) came in and turned them into winners. I only hope ISU can find another quality coach like Davis. His years aren't looking so bad to Iowa fan now are they ?
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TheJON
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Twister,
To be honest, I don't want the Davis era back. I know, I know....20 wins, NCAA tournament victory, Top 25 every year. But his record was really padded because he would schedule cupcakes every year. It was ridiculous. The only non-conference game that was ever entertaining to go see was Iowa State every other year.
Tom Davis can coach. But he could not recruit and he was a pussy. Have you heard that he is whining about Drake's non-conference schedule this year and that they're going to lighten the schedule next season? The only quality teams he faced was Iowa and ISU. I don't respect coaches like that.
Tom Davis=Bill Snyder.
But he had to go. It was time for Iowa to attempt to get to a higher level, and for that, I give Bowlsby some props. Maybe Steve Alford isn't the coach to take Iowa to the next level, but there is a coach out there that we could get that will be able to. I will never criticize Bowlsby for hiring Alford. Alford was the bright young coach in college basketball 6 years ago. Any program would have taken him. But the potential gains for the program far outweighed the risk in hiring Alford.
As for Van De Velde......I know he saw the pictures before The Rag printed them in the paper, but the story was going to get out somehow anyways. ISU was not going to be able to keep it secret and Larry was going to be criticized by the national media regardless of when the story came out. And due to the public criticism and embarrassment to the University, he was going to have to fire Larry anyways.
As for the hiring process....you might be right on the way he handled it, but I think that a lot of coaches did not want to come to ISU because of Larrygate. Now, I think if ISU were to go out and look for a new coach now, they'd have an easier time finding one because the Eustachy situation is in the past.
That said, there's no reason why both Iowa and ISU are not perennial Top 25 teams in basketball. We have good enough programs to be. Plus, we have enough good D-1 caliber basketball players in this state to build the core of the teams from. And we have enough of a recruiting base outside the state to build the rest of the team from. Now, we just need to get some coaches that can win some ballgames!
To be honest, I don't want the Davis era back. I know, I know....20 wins, NCAA tournament victory, Top 25 every year. But his record was really padded because he would schedule cupcakes every year. It was ridiculous. The only non-conference game that was ever entertaining to go see was Iowa State every other year.
Tom Davis can coach. But he could not recruit and he was a pussy. Have you heard that he is whining about Drake's non-conference schedule this year and that they're going to lighten the schedule next season? The only quality teams he faced was Iowa and ISU. I don't respect coaches like that.
Tom Davis=Bill Snyder.
But he had to go. It was time for Iowa to attempt to get to a higher level, and for that, I give Bowlsby some props. Maybe Steve Alford isn't the coach to take Iowa to the next level, but there is a coach out there that we could get that will be able to. I will never criticize Bowlsby for hiring Alford. Alford was the bright young coach in college basketball 6 years ago. Any program would have taken him. But the potential gains for the program far outweighed the risk in hiring Alford.
As for Van De Velde......I know he saw the pictures before The Rag printed them in the paper, but the story was going to get out somehow anyways. ISU was not going to be able to keep it secret and Larry was going to be criticized by the national media regardless of when the story came out. And due to the public criticism and embarrassment to the University, he was going to have to fire Larry anyways.
As for the hiring process....you might be right on the way he handled it, but I think that a lot of coaches did not want to come to ISU because of Larrygate. Now, I think if ISU were to go out and look for a new coach now, they'd have an easier time finding one because the Eustachy situation is in the past.
That said, there's no reason why both Iowa and ISU are not perennial Top 25 teams in basketball. We have good enough programs to be. Plus, we have enough good D-1 caliber basketball players in this state to build the core of the teams from. And we have enough of a recruiting base outside the state to build the rest of the team from. Now, we just need to get some coaches that can win some ballgames!
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MisterTwister
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If BVD had taken a proactive approach to those pictures and suspended Larry for 6 games without pay, forced Larry into some concessions like AA counseling and traveling with the team after games, he wouldn't have needed to worry about saving face for ISU or hiring a new coach. The only reason Larrygate was as bad as it was, was because it hit the papers first and suprised Mom, Dad, Grandpa, and Grandma Iowan as well as the national media.
You are correct that the way Larrygate came down probably scared off a lot of potential applicants for the job. I think the negative stigma will continue to surround BVD as long as he remains at ISU. After all, what coach would want to work for a guy that let a Coach run wild and when things went bad dropped him like a bad habit. Doesn't bode well for his loyalty.
In the end, I think BVDs carreer at ISU was sealed last year when Geoffrey failed to renew his contract. Doesn't say much for the job your doing if your boss doesn't want to lock you down long term.
You are correct that the way Larrygate came down probably scared off a lot of potential applicants for the job. I think the negative stigma will continue to surround BVD as long as he remains at ISU. After all, what coach would want to work for a guy that let a Coach run wild and when things went bad dropped him like a bad habit. Doesn't bode well for his loyalty.
In the end, I think BVDs carreer at ISU was sealed last year when Geoffrey failed to renew his contract. Doesn't say much for the job your doing if your boss doesn't want to lock you down long term.
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MisterTwister
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Boy, what a difference 5 games makes.
I think this thread only proves that I should shut the hell up and just watch some damn ball instead or dumping on the internet.
Interesting stats in this am's Rag about the first 5 games and the last 5 games. It would seem that ISU is not scoring more and their opponents are not scoring considerably less, the biggest turnarounds have come in outside shooting percentage and turnovers (as in they're turning it over less and their opponents are turning it over more).
I've got to hand it to Wayne. He's got these guys D-ing like a mother. I haven't seen the Clones play this tough since '00.
I think this thread only proves that I should shut the hell up and just watch some damn ball instead or dumping on the internet.
Interesting stats in this am's Rag about the first 5 games and the last 5 games. It would seem that ISU is not scoring more and their opponents are not scoring considerably less, the biggest turnarounds have come in outside shooting percentage and turnovers (as in they're turning it over less and their opponents are turning it over more).
I've got to hand it to Wayne. He's got these guys D-ing like a mother. I haven't seen the Clones play this tough since '00.
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War Wagon
- 2010 CFB Pickem Champ
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Sorry I missed this until now.MisterTwister wrote:...left me in a fetal position and unresponsive to medication until recently. But I think I'm coming around again. Therapy has taught me to accept who I am. I am an Iowa State fan and as such I am destined to be a LOSER the rest of my sorry existence.
I've realized that in any given scenario, imagine the worst possible thing to happen to your team and accept it as fate when it comes to fruition.
Substitute "Mizzou" for ISU in your post and you'll have captured Tiger's fan feelings exactly.
Props to the Cyclones for turning things around the way they have. I'd like to think that maybe MU can do the same, but it will probably be too little too late.
[sigh]...Well there's always the Big XII tourney at Kemper this year, and a fellow can dream, can't he? [/sigh]
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War Wagon
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Oh, and I'm really sorry I missed this gem until now and very surprised that this meathead aka Las Loads was allowed to get away with it.DasChoads wrote:LOL!!!!!!!! 10-12 teams better than Kansas? Like who? Look at the game last night, Kansas destroyed Texas.TheJON wrote: I think Kansas is good, but overrated. Just my opinion. I think there are 10-12 teams that are better than them.
Look at the Georgia Tech game a month ago. Kansas was down by as much as 16 in the first half, came back an won in overtime. Is there a 10-12 team that could have done that?
Thanks for proving once again beyond a shadow of a doubt what a stupid cocksucker you are Choads. Must be a KU grad.
Just because you probably still don't get it, I'll spell it out for you.
Jon posted that "there are 10-12 teams that are better than ku" , that means 10 to 12, not 10 and 12, you dense, myopic dipshit.