You mean to tell me NCAABB is corrupt?

[Dinsdale]

I think there's gonna be a whole buncha heads rolling over this shit.

They arrested an exec from Adidas (here in Portland, where the shoe companies are). Funny thing that -- the Feds arrested coaches from USC, Arizona, and Okie Lite... which are Nike schools. Then there's the Rifleman at Auburn -- an Under Armor school.

The compulsive liar Pitino is gone forever, which makes his batting average 1.000 (unless you count Hawaii, which didn't have wins vacated, just a bunch of violations). Looking like Louisville hoops might be gone for a long time.

USC's entire athletic department has been habitual offenders (football, basketball, and even women's volleyball), so they could well get a Death Sentence, too (and Schmick's tears will be hilarious).

Or, it could be that the cheating is so pervasive throughout the sport(s), that the NCAA couldn't possibly sanction everyone, and just has to call for a do-over.

Interesting times are coming.

[Softball Bat]

Or, it could be that the cheating is so pervasive throughout the sport(s), that the NCAA couldn't possibly sanction everyone, and just has to call for a do-over.

You know, a couple/few years ago I had a few lengthy "flame wars" in BTCF on this board because I simply posted what was obvious.

That is, D-1 sports are a cesspool of corruption and I have no idea how folks can watch BTCF and take it seriously because you don't know for sure who is cheating the best and/or most.

A fan does not know what he is watching.

They are not "student-athletes."
It's absurd.

I find the whole thing is ridiculously illegitimate.

It's like "the sky is blue" obvious.


Folks thought I was trolling.

lol




Sorry to piss on your Saturday afternoon.

[smackaholic]

We need to just do away with the charade of the "student athlete". It is a fucking joke and has been for 40 years or more.

Student...errrr I mean young basketball players should be allowed to take part in any sort of business relationship they feel is in their interest, just as any other American can.

Wanna sign an agent?

Go for it.

Let colleges/athletic gear makers freely bid for prospects.

I also think it would be a good idea to allow these kids to enter the draft without losing college eligibility. If the kid gets drafted, he could arrange with his new boss to finish out his college career and get paid. This is a win win for everyone as it means there'd be fewer "one and dones", the kids would get paid sooner and they'd have something if they blow out an ACL mid-way through their junior year and become worthless to the NBA.

[Dinsdale]

I have said for decades that USC should get rid of basketball

Since you're none too bright, let me help you out:

There's a shit-ton of different college sports. Precisely 2 of them generate revenue, which finance all of the others.

Care to take a guess which 2?

[Left Seater]

Outside of 50 college football and basketball programs, the athletes are still student athletes. Even within these 50 programs well over half are actual student athletes.

College players should not be able to sign contracts and still play college sports period. In fact all pro sports should adopt the baseball model that says once a player has matriculated they can't go pro until 3 college seasons have passed.

[Dinsdale]

In fact all pro sports should adopt the baseball model that says once a player has matriculated they can't go pro until 3 college seasons have passed.

I'm all for that. Either straight out of HS (and exactly zero NFL teams will take a guy out of high school), or 3 years deep. Although maybe the NFL can start buying/supporting semi-pro leagues for the younger guys.

[FiatLux]

If Penn state (rogue elements of) can rape minors for decades with no lasting punitive effects after the fact,
then why would one expect this situation to have a different result?

USC just brought in Louis Freeh (Penn State investigator)

http://campussports.net/2017/09/26/usc- ... stigation/

[Dinsdale]

If Penn state (rogue elements of) can rape minors for decades with no lasting punitive effects after the fact,
then why would one expect this situation to have a different result?

Tricky situation. There was no money changing hands at PSU (just creepy semen and boypoop), and there was no athletic "cheating" going on (unlike Baylor, where sexual assaults were swept under the rug to keep players on the field... sup Oregon State). Sure, from a moral standpoint, what PSU did was much, much worse, it didn't really violate NCAA regulations... just every law of common decency I can think of.

So, somewhat of an apples/oranges comparison.

[Dinsdale]

Basketball may make money for some schools, at USC it only brings a seedy element to the school and shame to its athletic department.

Once again, you're none too bright.

I'll help you out some more -- the PAC12 splits revenues. And PAC12 hoops makes a shitload of $$$.

If you want to get the seedy element out of USC's AD, then you should probably drop football, too. I seem to remember reading something in the news about some very shady characters associated with USC football a few years ago... maybe I'm remembering that wrong?

[FiatLux]

From a 2010 USC press release in the wake of a previous USC scandal. Freeh's recommendations obviously worked. Might as well give it another go.


"There is a systemic problem facing college athletes today: unscrupulous sports agents and sports marketers. The question is how do we identify them and keep them away from our student-athletes? To provide us with recommendations about the best way to protect our student-athletes and their families from those who seek to violate the rules, we have retained the Freeh Group, headed by former federal judge and ex-FBI director Louis Freeh."

[smackaholic]

In fact all pro sports should adopt the baseball model that says once a player has matriculated they can't go pro until 3 college seasons have passed.

I'm all for that. Either straight out of HS (and exactly zero NFL teams will take a guy out of high school), or 3 years deep. Although maybe the NFL can start buying/supporting semi-pro leagues for the younger guys.

Why do you and lefty hate capitalism?

The ability to sign contracts with whomever the fukk you want is a cornerstone of our capitalist society. The current system really is akin to slavery in a way. They have servants that have t work for them with no pay other than the ability to attend class which, lets face it, don't mean shit to a blue chip bballer that is headed to the NBA.

I would allow them to sign with whoever the fukk they want to. I would let them enter the draft early, so long as they understood that when a pro team uses a pick on them, their ass belongs to that team. I think another good idea would be to allow them, after being drafted to continue to play out their eligibility in college. This would solve the "one and done" problem, and give them time to develop their game in college which might be best for both parties. It really isn't much different from a baseball player getting drafted knowing he will be in a farm system for a few years. And lets not kid ourselves, the NCAA is the basketball farm system.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

[Softball Bat]

bwaaaa...



RACK!

[BSmack]

College sports of always been corrupt and probably always will be corrupt. But damn if it isn't a feel-good moment to see Rick Pitino driven out of the game in shame. If only for that this scandal has done its job

[smackaholic]

What seed was FBI?

[Left Seater]

They have a choice. Sign a contract or go to college. It is their choice. But once they make the decision to go to college they are on the hook for 3 seasons.

The NHL allows teams to retain the rights to draftees who attend college. They can't get any cash but they can attend prospect camps. I guess I would be ok with this model as long as no cash or considerations change hands.

[smackaholic]

WTF is it so important to you that they not be paid? What would you tell someone who said, ya know, that lefty fella is a pretty good pilot, I'd like him to fly my plane for me, so long as he does it for room and board only. Oh, and I don't want anyone else paying him either.

This system remains in place for one reason. The colleges like having slave labor. This pretend worship of the pure amateur student athlete is a crock of shit. And as in other areas, these rules turn decent people into criminals. Can you really blame coaches for doing what they can to try to get a competitive advantage?

[smackaholic]

Why is it even people that profess to be conservatives turn in Bernie Sanders when it comes to college athletics.

Would you like someone to say, shmick, you are forbidden by law to take part in a business arrangement with someone for an arbitrary amount of time?

I would tell them to fukk the fukk off.

These kids have a marketable skill. Not only that, but this marketable skill is extremely perishable. They are one misplanted foot away from blowing a knee to smithereens and having that marketability vanish.

And who the fukk says you have to pay them all? Let the market decide. Allow the blue chip kids make their best deal. The rest can just play for a full ride scholarship and all the pussy they can eat. The free market is a wonderful thing. It solves many problems if you let it.

Or we can just go with the status quo where all sorts of shady shit is done on the down low, until you get caught. And college bball will continue to suck ass as the cream of the crop is continually skimmed by NBA no matter the kids age.

[Diego in Seattle]

What's the big deal about corruption in college BB?
What's the big deal about betting in mlb?

[Left Seater]

WTF is it so important to you that they not be paid? What would you tell someone who said, ya know, that lefty fella is a pretty good pilot, I'd like him to fly my plane for me, so long as he does it for room and board only. Oh, and I don't want anyone else paying him either.

This system remains in place for one reason. The colleges like having slave labor. This pretend worship of the pure amateur student athlete is a crock of shit. And as in other areas, these rules turn decent people into criminals. Can you really blame coaches for doing what they can to try to get a competitive advantage?

Apples and toilets.

I had to learn to fly at some point. Same for athletes. 18 year olds aren't physically ready to compete with NFL players. Nor are most 18 yo ready to manage multi million dollars. You are learning skills in exchange for marketing other skills. Schmick's point is a good one as well. And to add onto that, who is going to pay the women's field hockey teams when you start paying the male basketball players? See Title IX.

Again no one is saying athletes have to go to college. Go out and make all the money you can. But if you opt for college the. There should be rules and restrictions. IMO.

[smackaholic]

Difference between you learning to fly and a blue chip ball player is that there are millions that could be taught to fly and a few kids that have this level of talent at that age. If they were a dime a dozen, there wouldn't be people willing to break laws to pay them.

This really is no different from any other business arrangement other than there are all sorts of artificial rules in place that cause the bribery.

As for title IX, it is a crock of shit and one of many government regulations that make higher education unaffordable. It really does need to go.

[smackaholic]

If an athlete agrees to go to college and that college invests in him, that player should be obligated to staying in college until he has fulfilled his commitment.
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
Athletes don't have to go to college, they can go play in Europe or elsewhere and get paid to hone their skills with a year to year commitment. Go there if you're not going to fulfill a university's commitment

Who the fukk are you to say what his "commitment" is?

Why stay and risk a career ending injury for an education he doesn't give a fukk about?

Pay them and they will hang around and NCAABB may become watchable again.

Actually, it is watchable, but trying to follow a team sucks as the line up changed every year

[ML@Coyote]

there are all sorts of artificial rules in place that cause the bribery.

I don't think rules cause bribery. Greed is probably the cause of bribery. No matter what the rules are, there will be people who try to break them for their own gain. So maybe yes, the rules ought to be changed, but I think it's a mistake to think this will stop the greedy from breaking whatever new rules are put into place.

[Left Seater]

College isn't the only option. Players do not have to attend. It is their choice. If they decide to make that choice then I think they should stay for 3 seasons. At the same time the scholarship should be for 5 years. Not a one year scholarship.

[smackaholic]

What is greed?

"Greed" is someone looking out for himself. It is a basic instinct ingrained in all of us. Capitalism understands this and deals with it by trying to set open, fair rules. Busy body governments making excessive rules to try to force fairness, just results in people figuring out ways to play these rules to fukk others.

If we just do away with the charade of the amateur student athlete, allow them to enter into contracts that serve their interests, things will be better. I don't really see where title IX enters into it as the same rules will apply to women. And yes, there are a few that it would apply to. Generally they end up playing for Geno at UConn.

I would be fine with putting some sort of cap on things. Maybe even put caps on individual schools the same way the NFL puts salary caps on teams. One thing is for sure. The current system is busted. Cheating is rampant and a lot o fmoney is being spent trying to root out these cheaters. I think the fed government has better places to put its investigatory dollars.

[ML@Coyote]

I think the fed government has better places to put its investigatory dollars.

I agree with this. When I sign construction contracts, there is always a clause that in the event of a dispute going to court, the loser pays all attorney fees. I think it's a good clause. Can colleges and professional sports organizations be held responsible for all the government time and money they consume in the event of wrong doings? Perhaps if they were held more financially accountable, they would do a better job policing themselves.

[smackaholic]

'yote, Agreed, but so long as we continue the charade of the student athlete, the government will continue to police them. Policing costs money, even when you don't find a crime. Do you still send them the bill?

Just stop the bullshit, get things in the open. If a 17 year old kid or his agent can get Nike or UA to fork over money, good for him. It is no concern of mine. It may result in said kid deciding to spend 3 or 4 years in a college program. Does this mean he'll get an edumacashun while he's there?

Who knows or gives a fukk.

Having colleges hold on to players for 3 or 4 years improves their programs and will help with developing fan bases. I think it is also in the interest of the NBA team to be able to develop the player at the college level.

So who loses out?

I suppose those that are currently best at gaming the system along with the college programs who currently receive this money thanks to their indentured servants. I guess there will also be FBI agents that will have to look elsewhere too.

[Left Seater]

Holic,

You are talking about maybe 500 athletes. Out side of that number the remaining 459,500 athletes are true student athletes. You want to blow up a system to benefit only a small fraction.

Further I suggest that you read up and study title IX. Your quick dismissal and saying UConn women's hoops might be paid shows your lack of understanding regarding this Title.

[smackaholic]

It's probably more like 50 athletes, maybe fewer.

The rest would be completely unaffected. Nothing is getting blown up. In fact, it will likely help the rest of the programs for reasons I have already laid out. College hoops in particular would get a boost as fans disgusted by the one and doners regain interest.

Will those not getting paid be butthurt?

Maybe, but WGARA. No one is forcing them to accept a full ride scholarship.

They'll quickly get over their butthurtedness.

[Left Seater]

It's probably more like 50 athletes, maybe fewer.

The rest would be completely unaffected. Nothing is getting blown up. In fact, it will likely help the rest of the programs for reasons I have already laid out. College hoops in particular would get a boost as fans disgusted by the one and doners regain interest.

Will those not getting paid be butthurt?

Maybe, but WGARA. No one is forcing them to accept a full ride scholarship.

They'll quickly get over their butthurtedness.

Ok 50. So we blow up the system so 50 athletes can be paid. Seems totally moronic. However you are still missing out on the Title IX part which would not allow this.

But hey look at your quote, no one forced them to accept a scholarship. Same thing applies to the 50 you want to see get paid. Let them go elsewhere to earn their coin.

[smackaholic]

OK, so let's say we get rid of the part where the University directly pays the athlete. This would take care of the Title IX bullshit.

We could still let them sign with agents and let them enter the draft without losing NCAA eligibility.

You keep going back to the "nobody is making them go to college" card and that is part of my point. They are doing just that, typically after 1 year, but occasionally altogether if they are really that good. As time goes on, we will start seeing more Kobes and Lebrons who are confident that their game is ready for the NBA right out of HS. And that is bad news for college hoops.

[Left Seater]

OK, so let's say we get rid of the part where the University directly pays the athlete. This would take care of the Title IX bullshit.

We could still let them sign with agents and let them enter the draft without losing NCAA eligibility.

You keep going back to the "nobody is making them go to college" card and that is part of my point. They are doing just that, typically after 1 year, but occasionally altogether if they are really that good. As time goes on, we will start seeing more Kobes and Lebrons who are confident that their game is ready for the NBA right out of HS. And that is bad news for college hoops.

See I disagree, the more Kobie's and LeBron's the better for NCAA basketball. Those guys don't care about college so let them skip it entirely. They won't be there so we won't miss anything. And NCAA hoops will be more competitive.

[Dinsdale]

We could still let them sign with agents and let them enter the draft without losing NCAA eligibility

If they aren't drafted, why do they need an agent?

And hoopsters can enter the NBA draft -- but they can't hire an agent. Don't get drafted, and want to skip the rest of school and try to walk-on or play in Europe? Then hire an agent.

Besides Title IX, paying players would ensure that the same 10 teams would dominate every season... great plan.

[smackaholic]

I've already ceded that the schools paying them directly wouldn't fly, primarily for title 9 reasons.

But the rest accomplishes a few things.

It gets things out in the open so the FBI can concentrate on other things.

It makes it more attractive for kids to hang around college for a year or 3 and be able to actually get paid for their abilities, which I always thought was kid of the idea with capitalism. Star players hanging around their college programs increases interest of the fans. I might even be OK with some sort of reg that says any one school could only have X number of drafted pros on their squad at once. This would be one way of getting stacked programs to share the wealth a little.

[Moving Sale]

I've already ceded that the schools paying them directly wouldn't fly, primarily for title 9 reasons.

But the rest accomplishes a few things.

It gets things out in the open so the FBI can concentrate on other things.

Yeah like busting potheads.

[smackaholic]

I've already ceded that the schools paying them directly wouldn't fly, primarily for title 9 reasons.

But the rest accomplishes a few things.

It gets things out in the open so the FBI can concentrate on other things.

Yeah like busting potheads.

This is where you and I agree, lil' fella. The difference between us is that I am consistent. If the Constitution says, not your yob, feds, it ain't your yob. You, like most lefties think government should basically be the "cool mom". You know, the kind that will make your meals, clean your room, and let you smoke weed and bang your girlfriend in your room. I'm more the hard ass dad that thinks you'll follow my fukking rules while under my roof, and do whatever the fukk you want....the day you move out.

[Moving Sale]

Fuck you. I'm the biggest antagonist of Wickard on this board and have been for over a decade. I am more solidly behind the Bill of Rights (yes that includes the 2nd am) than any of you cop blowing asswipes. You couldn't pass a Con Law test if you studied for it for the rest of your stupid life.

[smackaholic]

Where do you stand on federally run healfcare, welfare and a porous border?

[Moving Sale]

1) I don't think "Federally" means what you think it means. Did you mean Nationally run healthcare?
2) Welfare from whom to whom?
3) I would need to know what you mean by porous boarder. Like between here and China?

[smackaholic]

1) I don't think "Federally" means what you think it means. Did you mean Nationally run healthcare?
2) Welfare from whom to whom?
3) I would need to know what you mean by porous boarder. Like between here and China?

OK, nationally then.

Welfare of all types. I know you are referring to corporate welfare and I think we are in agreement regarding that.

Porous as in just cause you snuck in last week or 20 years ago, you violated our laws so get the full out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk