2015 HOF candidates

[Dinsdale]

What a tough, tough crop to pick from. Just about all of them deserve it.



Seau seems like a no-brainer.

[BSmack]

Haley - 5 Super Bowl Rings

And five times as many cases of public masturbation.

[R-Jack]

SayOw
TBrown
Haley
Want to say Davis, but just too short of a run......plus the amount of total garbage that gained 1000 yards behind that line in Shanahans system doesn't help his cause.

[War Wagon]

Shields - 12 Pro Bowls - started 231 straight games

How many times has he been passed over already?

Too damn many.

His resume on the field speaks for itself but what he did and still does with charity makes him worthy of induction. Dude was and still is a class act.

[Dinsdale]

Want to say Davis, but just too short of a run......plus the amount of total garbage that gained 1000 yards behind that line in Shanahans system doesn't help his cause.

That was my exact thought.

I am a sucker for the importance of offensive lineman, but there's 3 really good ones, which may be too many to take in one year.

I'll go with Pace over Mawae, although both were great players. Fuck the guy saying "I know you guys were great, but what am I?"

Tim Brown had some fatass numbers.




I'm still thinking on it.

[poptart]

Seau - 12 Pro Bowls - one of the best LBs of his generation
Warner - 3 Super Bowls with 2 mediocre teams
Haley - 5 Super Bowl Rings
Shields - 12 Pro Bowls - started 231 straight games

Yes on Seau.

Warner is a first ballot Hall of Famer?
NO on that.

I'd put K. Greene in before Haley.

Yes on Shields.


I'm on the fence with Tim Brown.
If you look at the QB slop he played with for most of his career, his numbers are even more impressive.
The longer he fails to get in, the less chance he has, imo, because a lot of guys are coming up with big numbers as well.

[Dinsdale]

Warner - 3 Super Bowls with 2 mediocre teams

Uhm... see any other names* on that list from 2 of those Super Bowls?

Did I really just read that?

Epic dumbassery.



* -- not listed: one of the greatest players to ever lace'em up

[Ken]

Not sure why Jerome Bettis doesn't get more love from the HOF. He's 6th on the all-time rushing yds list ahead of Dickerson, Dorsett, Brown, Allen, Simpson, et. al.

Yeah, I get that he is viewed as the prototypical short-yardage back, but when you needed to close out a game, he was one of the best at shoving that prosthetic cock up a d-line's ass. He should be in.

[Ken]

* -- not listed: one of the greatest players to ever lace'em up

If you're referring to Fitz, couldn't agree more. He doesn't get the love from the media like others do, probably due to his reserved and professional demeanor. Definitely one of the most gifted receivers of all time.

[poptart]

I wouldn't vote for Bettis.

Very good player who accumulated a high career yardage number, but was not perennially recognized as one of THE best at his position.

Think about it, in a 13 year career, he led the league in just one department, one time.
Number of carries, in 1997.

He doesn't rate compared to the other guys you listed there.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Agreed on it being too soon for Warner, as great as his numbers were, but eventually, yes.

Would love to see D. Woodson get picked. He lived in my neighborhood and he was a solid dude, though some of his family members were...not so much.

Pace is a good selection and I like Shields, Seau, Brown and Lynch.

[Dinsdale]

* -- not listed: one of the greatest players to ever lace'em up

If you're referring to Fitz, couldn't agree more. He doesn't get the love from the media like others do, probably due to his reserved and professional demeanor. Definitely one of the most gifted receivers of all time.

I was referring to Marshall, Marshall, Marshall -- best RB I've ever seen play in my life, and I grew up watching Dorsett, Payton, and a bunch of other studs.

I case Scott can't figure it out -- there's 3 of Warner's teammates from those SB teams on the list. A squad of a HOFer and 4 new nominees probably doesn't fit the definition of "mediocre."

[Dinsdale]

My beef was calling them "mediocre teams." From the HoF talent, that's quite obviously not the case.

Marshall Faulk, Orlando Pace, Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, London Fletcher, and probably a bunch of studs I can't remember doesn't scream "mediocre."

[poptart]

The knock on Warner is that he had a half dozen seasons where he didn't do squat.
Only 4 or 5 where he was really outstanding.

It's a bit similar to Ken Stabler, and why I don't have much angst over the Snake not being in the Hall.


But I think a case can be made for both of 'em.

Warner will get in.

[R-Jack]

Roger Craig - Badass who has a lot of rings.

I think he gets looked at as a product of the system he was in. Regardless of if it's fair or not, you have to admit any decent RB with hands and health could go for 1000/1000 on those teams.

Not a thought I want to consider, but imagine the #s that Marcus Allen would've put up in that system.

[FLW Buckeye]

Roger Craig - Badass who has a lot of rings.

I think he gets looked at as a product of the system he was in. Regardless of if it's fair or not, you have to admit any decent RB with hands and health could go for 1000/1000 on those teams.

Not a thought I want to consider, but imagine the #s that Marcus Allen would've put up in that system.

Bullshit...If it was so easy, why are there only two (Craig and Faulk) that have done it? Especially with the widespread popularity and adaptation of the WC offense.

[Joe in PB]

I'd go with:

1. Charles Haley - a dominate pass rusher wherever he went, its not an accident the Cowboys then the 9ers wanted him for their championship runs.

2. Joe Jacoby - lynch pin of the hogs, the oline that propelled the Redskins to more than one championship under Joe Gibbs, one of the biggest tackles back then, and not fat.

3. Junior Seau - dominate defender at a time when the Chargers mostly stunk.

4. Kurt Warner - a beneficiary & victim of Mike Martz's offensive schemes, the lack of protection led to breaking his hand twice and a few down seasons. The fact he made a winner out of two perennial losers (Cardinals, Rams) speaks volumes.

5. Darren Woodson - could cover, tackle, return punts, pretty much do it all.

Not a fan of making guys wait decades to get in, either you're a HoFer or you're not.

Others i think should be in:
Jerome Bettis - 13,662 yards (6th)
Don Coryell
Kevin Greene
Torry Holt
Jimmy Johnson
Kevin Mawae
Will Shields

[Felix]

Morten Andersen-nope he's a kicker
Steve Atwater-hit like a freight train but never on a team that accomplished much
Jerome Bettis-I think he deserves it, but I have to say n0
Tim Brown-great receiver, great career, should make it probably won't
Isaac Bruce-great receiver, but didn't have a sustained career so nope
Don Coryell-air coryell, who could forget those teams that chucked it up more than almost anybody, but again lacks the trophies to merit consideration
Roger Craig-got lost in the shuffle of a great NFC team...I'd say no
Terrell Davis-not long enough to consider a sustained career, but ask the Packers if he can run
Tony Dungy-too nice a guy
Kevin Greene-definitely merits consideration
Charles Haley-ditto, the unmovable object on a great team
Marvin Harrison-guy should be a first round lock
Torry Holt-nope
Joe Jacoby-nope
Edgerrin James-nope
Jimmy Johnson-please,he's pissed off too many voters
Mike Kenn-who
Ty Law-just a piece in a belichick puzzle
John Lynch-did some great things, but hall worthy? I don't think so
Kevin Mawae-nope
Karl Mecklenburg-orange crush, but unknown to most
Orlando Pace-great blocker, but don see him hoisting a trophy
Junior Seau-first round lock
Will Shields-nope
Kurt Warner-fuggin please, three good years does not a hall of fame make
Darren Woodson-kinda on the fence here....definitely a talent for making playes

My picks....

Seau
Haley
Harrison
Woodson

[poptart]

I disagree with Joe on a few of his points -- but I've already posted about them.


NO on Roger Craig, btw

I guess his big thing was that he was a dual threat (and he was), but if you look, he's just 38th all-time in total yds from scrimmage.
He's 78th all time in TDs.

He was a valuable player for SF, and he surely helped them get Lombardi Trophies, but stop with the Hall of Fame talk.
He was fortunate to have been a 49er at that time.

4 Pro Bowls.
Wow.

Hall of Very Good for Roger.

[R-Jack]

Roger Craig - Badass who has a lot of rings.

I think he gets looked at as a product of the system he was in. Regardless of if it's fair or not, you have to admit any decent RB with hands and health could go for 1000/1000 on those teams.

Not a thought I want to consider, but imagine the #s that Marcus Allen would've put up in that system.

Bullshit...If it was so easy, why are there only two (Craig and Faulk) that have done it? Especially with the widespread popularity and adaptation of the WC offense.

There are dozens of players that have gone for 2000 from scrimmage, the bulk being from "WC" offensives done with a combo of rushing and receiving. Gaining 1000 in both is merely subjective to play calling. Craig's 85 numbers are a result of Walsh interpretation of the system. It was Craig's best season and gaining 2000 yards is a testament to his talent. When you put his season in the context of 2000 yards, there are lots of other RB who did more in WC offensives....who won't sniff the Hall

[poptart]

Will Shields - I'm ok with it
Junior Seau - defintely
Charles Haley - K. Greene should have gone in before him
Jerome Bettis - NO

I wouldn't vote for Bettis.

Very good player who accumulated a high career yardage number, but was not perennially recognized as one of THE best at his position.

Think about it, in a 13 year career, he led the league in just one department, one time.
Number of carries, in 1997.

Tim Brown - meh

[BSmack]

You cannot write the history of Football without Jerome Bettis. Looks like the HoF voters decided this was the year to settle some accounts as, Haley, Bettis, Shields and Brown have all been waiting too long.

[Joe in PB]

I agree. The Bus had a large NFL persona, and that means a lot to voters and fans. He also played in the Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, LaDainian Tomlinson era, and when guys like Terrell Davis, Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, & Shaun Alexander got hot.

Jerome Bettis

Tim Brown - meh

I have a similar feeling, probably because he was not the same player near the end of his career, but the same could be said of Jerome.

Tim Brown

Statistically both seem a fit for the hall.

[mvscal]

I'm on the fence with Tim Brown.
If you look at the QB slop he played with for most of his career, his numbers are even more impressive.
The longer he fails to get in, the less chance he has, imo, because a lot of guys are coming up with big numbers as well.

He doesn't belong. Not a single season as a first team all-pro. That says it all. He was never, at any point in his career, a dominant player at his position.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

A bit shocked to learn Coryell wasn't a HOF'er.

The guy is the godfather of the modern passing game.

[R-Jack]

I'm on the fence with Tim Brown.
If you look at the QB slop he played with for most of his career, his numbers are even more impressive.
The longer he fails to get in, the less chance he has, imo, because a lot of guys are coming up with big numbers as well.

He doesn't belong. Not a single season as a first team all-pro. That says it all. He was never, at any point in his career, a dominant player at his position.

So in baseball terms, he's Don Sutton

[Dinsdale]

A bit shocked to learn Coryell wasn't a HOF'er.

The guy is the godfather of the modern passing game.

Why do people always perpetrate this myth?

The name you're looking for is Joe Stydahar, LA Rams.

Although I suppose both of them implemented their innovations in the passing game by putting it in the hands of a Duck QB, maybe that's where the confusion comes in.

[poptart]

You cannot write the history of Football without Jerome Bettis

One of the silliest things I've read on the board.


As noted, in a 13 yr career, J. Bettis never led the league in a single category even one time... except for leading the league in carries once.
Oh wow.

3.9 yds per carry for his career.
3.4 yds per carry in playoff games.

And speaking of his 14 playoff games, he generally did dick.
48 yds per game average.
Just one game with more than 1 TD.


In a two hour documentary on the history of pro football, J. Bettis would be lucky to have his name even mentioned in passing.

[BSmack]

Bettis ran the ball in EVERY short yardage situation the Steelers faced for his entire career. No shit his YPC is lower.

[poptart]

Bettis has the lowest YPC mark of any HoF back in the modern era.
3.9.

I'm pretty sure Larry Csonka also got Miami's short yardage carries.
4.3 YPC.

Csonka was truly GREAT.

[Joe in PB]

Csonka was truly GREAT.

HoF selections are subjective. After watching Joe Jacoby anchor the Hogs during Washington's championship years, he's a HoFer IMO. To others who only saw him play once or twice a season, he's just another guy. Csonka was great for part of his career, his last 5 years he averaged just 3.6 ypc. He had an eleven year career, but if he played in the current era, it's doubtful he would have played much more than 8 years. In truth, his play was not all that different than the Bus.