ND Got Jobbed

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:57 am

It was the right call.

Still, one of the best games I've watched in a long time.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:03 am

War Wagon wrote:one of the best games I've watched in a long time.

Second-best game tonight.

The best game I watched in a long time since the last drubbing of the Evil People to the North was this evening

And that was OPI, unfortunately.

Bucmonkey · Post by **Bucmonkey** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:23 am

Looked like the right call but the ref could have left the flag in the pocket. DB didn't need to stay engaged as long as he did for the play to work...fuck FSU.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:04 pm

I'm sure that was in the design of that play and it really would be on the refs to call the pick or not. Golson got rid of the ball quickly so the receiver could've released Ramsey at the time and the play could've gone off as planned. Worse case scenario for the Irish was to just have to play 4th down over again plus they'd get some more room to maneuver.

Excellent game overall...the Irish are very good and Golson is legit.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:13 pm

The fuck it was the right call. That DB came up and jammed Prosise and never made a move to cover Robinson. He didn't intend on covering Robinson and didn't bitch to the ref. It was a busted coverage and a horse shit call.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:36 pm

You really think Robinson was going to be that wide open on purpose on the last play of the game? Even if you think Ramsey sold the penalty, they'd still have to defend another play. FSU had nothing to gain by leaving the best receiver open by the goal line. I'll say it again...when you design a pick play, it's on the refs to catch you cheating.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:51 pm

Watch the play again. The DB lines up right over Prosise. At the snap, Prosise moves and the DB comes up and jams him. It was a busted coverage by FSU. Prosise didn't make contact with the DB that was supposed to cover Robinson.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:28 pm

Prosise didn't even run a route and turn to face Golson for a pass. He blocked the man in front of him. It was heck of a block, I'll give him that. There's an art to a pick/rub play. He wasn't very subtle in taking Ramsey out of the play.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:30 pm

And Ramsey wrapped his arms around him. Just as easy to call defensive holding.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:01 pm

88 and Killian are wrong on this per the rule book.

Rule 7-3-8 covers illegal contact and pass interference. However it itself is pretty bland and you must go to the approved rulings to understand how to officiate these plays.

Approved ruling 7-3-8-IV is amazingly this exact play it reads:

At the snap A88 is on the line of scrimmage 10 yards from the tackle position and A44 is in the backfield, four yards to his inside. Before the Team A passer releases the ball, A88 contacts B1 five yards beyond the neutral zone. The pass is thrown to A44 who has moved in front of and to the outside of where A88 had contacted B1. Ruling: Team A foul, offensive pass interference. Penalty 15 yards from the previous spot.

The yardage used here is just for illustrative purposes and you can change the yardage numbers to anything you like as long as the contact is downfield and not in the backfield.

It matters not that the FSU DB initiated legal contact on the ND WR. That contact was legal. The ND WR is restricted from blocking the FSU DB at all when a legal forward pass is thrown. And block the DB he did three yards deep into the end zone.

Killian wrote: Prosise didn't make contact with the DB that was supposed to cover Robinson.

First you are making an assumption it is man up with no switch. You can't make that assumption. Most likely the DB that was blocked was supposed to switch to the outside underneath WR after jamming the WR on the line. But thankfully the rules are not written where the officials have to try to figure out who is covering who.

Bottom line the downfield blocking by Prosise on a legal forward pass is OPI.

Reminds me of the OT call in the OSU vs Miami title game. That was the correct call as well.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:44 pm

88 wrote: But I also don't think you throw flags for minor infractions on the opposite side of the field of a sweep. If this was a technical violation of the rules, I'll take your word on it. But FSU blew its coverage and lost that game. If the ND player wasn't there the result of that pass would have been a TD. Riddle me this, Batman. If a pass is uncatchable, we don't allow a pass interference penalty to stand. Why the fuck to we call a pick on a play that had no affect whatsoever on its outcome due to the fucked up alignment of the defense at the snap?

So you think Miami shouldn't have been called for the hold which became DPI which extended the game and lead to OSU winning a title?

Further, OPI is hardly a technical violation of the rules.

If the ND player wasn't there I disagree with your claim that it is still a TD.

This one call was only a small part of the game. ND had five leads and couldn't hold them.

At the end of the day, ND was flagged for something that is a cut and dry call right out of the rule book. ND coaches know that and if they don't they should be fired for incompetence.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:31 pm

I can make the assumption that it wasn't man switch when the DB turns around and starts yelling at his teammate for blowing the coverage.

Robinson's first TD was a text book pick play that wasn't called. Prosise lined up outside of Robinson, crossed in front of him and took his defender out of the play. That play, in my opinion, could have just as easily been called defensive holding because on the contact with the WR, the DB grabs ahold of him with his hands. I also think if Golson would have thrown the ball to Prosise, DPI or defensive holding would have been called.

I'm not complaining about it because the defense had a hard time in the second half with Winston and Prosise dropped what should have been the winning TD on second down.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:29 pm

Killian wrote:That play, in my opinion, could have just as easily been called defensive holding because on the contact with the WR, the DB grabs ahold of him with his hands. I also think if Golson would have thrown the ball to Prosise, DPI or defensive holding would have been called.

So the DB grabbed the WR and drug him into the end zone. Strange way of viewing it.

Had the ball been thrown to any of those 3 WRs in the bunch formation the call would have been the same. OPI, period. Prosise was blocking downfield. He never looked back for the ball, he never made a move left or right, nothing but driving the DB backwards into the end zone.

Don't forget the DB can use his hands to contact a receiver who is at or below his depth. LBs can and often do knock TEs down on crossing routes, legally.

According to the rules of the game the correct call was made by the BJ.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:55 pm

Having your undefeated season dashed on a questionable PI call on the road. Man, that's gotta suck.

:)

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:23 am

Killian wrote:I can make the assumption that it wasn't man switch when the DB turns around and starts yelling at his teammate for blowing the coverage.

This comment alone shows your true colors in this fight.
No, no... the DB wasn't motioning to the back judge rather than his teammate. Nope.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:51 am

88 wrote: Apples and oranges, amigo. Miami held the receiver to whom the ball was being thrown while the ball was in the air.

I was trying to make the point about letting them play and not calling a "Techincal" violation. Many many people complained about that call and it being right on the edge. I think both were the correct calls.

88 wrote:In the ND game, the defense mis-aligned,

How do you figure that? They had one guy over each of the 3 ND eligible players. Explain how they misaligned?

88 wrote: and the defensive player who got "picked" actually "jammed" the offensive receiver off the line of scrimmage.

I completely agree. The DB initially jammed the ND WR on the line of scrimmage. This is completely legal.

88 wrote:It wasn't like he was making any move whatsoever to cover the flare-out receiver.

Pretty difficult to do when you are being driven into the end zone.

88 wrote: Why wasn't he guilty of defensive holding?

Jamming and defensive holding are two different things. Bottom line is he wasnt holding. Like I said earlier in response to Killian, strange way to view the play. So you are saying the DB grabbed the WR and pulled/drug him into the endzone? If, IF that were the case we Might have a discussion about Defensive holding.

88 wrote:He had his hands on the receiver, and wasn't letting go until he realized that no one covered the receiver that caught the game winner.

DBs are allowed to contact a WR as long as they have more depth. In the ABC replay the DBs hand goes up near the goal line as if he were trying to make a move away from the WR. But even if he didn't the rules are clear and the WR can't block the DB in such a situation.

Go back the the approved ruling above and change the players numbers and yardage of the initial formation to yesterday's game and it doesn't get any clearer.

Killian wrote: Robinson's first TD was a text book pick play that wasn't called. Prosise lined up outside of Robinson, crossed in front of him and took his defender out of the play.

You are likely correct. I would imagine the officials drew up that TD play on the white board at half time and discussed it. I bet they also read thru the approved rulings at half as well and when ND ran this play in the second half it was an easy call by the BJ.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:14 pm

Ken wrote:
Killian wrote:I can make the assumption that it wasn't man switch when the DB turns around and starts yelling at his teammate for blowing the coverage.
This comment alone shows your true colors in this fight.
No, no... the DB wasn't motioning to the back judge rather than his teammate. Nope.

Good call, Drive By. I guess 88 is showing his "true colors" as well.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:40 pm

It was a poorly officiated game in general. Off the top of my head:

-Missed a pretty blatant hands to the face by Notre Dame on Winston’s interception
-Missed a very blatant pick on ND’s first touchdown
-Called a very suspect defensive holding on ND after a third down pass was incomplete. This would have forced FSU to kick a field goal where they eventually ended up with a touchdown
-Missed the FSU DB take his helmet off after what appeared to be the go ahead touchdown. If that was called, ND would have had the ball, first and goal from the 8 with 13 seconds to go.

All that having been said, ND failed to win the game. Golson hit Prosise on second down for what should have been the go ahead touchdown but Prosise dropped it. You never leave the outcome of the game up to an official, which is what ND did by not taking advantage earlier in the game and earlier in the possession.

The big take away for me was that ND proved that it can play with the big boys. They went in to Tallahassee and dominated both lines of scrimmage. They physically took it to the defending champs on their home field and came within a short and curly of coming out of there with a win. This was much more of a positive step forward that the entirety of the 2012 season.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:11 pm

You should cry some more, pussy.

Roger_the_Shrubber · Post by **Roger_the_Shrubber** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:40 am

I totally agree.

But..............it's a "W".

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:19 am

While you might be right in everything you assumed or believed might or might not happen the rules are black and white.

The WR blocking beyond the LOS makes this OPI. Period.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:02 am

And I don't think either WR is blocking. Fuller (#7) jab steps to the outside and then cuts in to run a slant. Darby sees this and attempts to jump the slant, initiating contact with Fuller in the process. Prosise is running a 3-4 yard route where he is supposed to get to the goal line and turn around. The moment the ball is snapped the DB locks onto him with his hand outside his pads.

The ACC was so confident in this call that they've changed who they said the penalty was on 3 times. On the field they said it was Fuller. Post game notes and explanation they said Prosise. On Sunday it was Fuller again, and yesterday it was back to Prosise.

Notre Same absolutely ran a pick play on Saturday night. But that wasn't it.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:28 am

Killian wrote:Prosise is running a 3-4 yard route where he is supposed to get to the goal line and turn around. The moment the ball is snapped the DB locks onto him with his hand outside his pads.

Notre Same absolutely ran a pick play on Saturday night. But that wasn't it.

You are seeing like no one else. In your world the DB grabs and holds and pulls Prosise 6 yards downfield.

Yesterday CFO came out with their weekly update and this play was on there as 100 percent correct. It may not be a "pick" but it is 100% OPI.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:11 pm

The National Director of Officials said it was the right call.
The Head of ACC Officials said it was the right call.
A collegiate official who posts on this board said it was the right call.
Multiple analysts and former players/coaches that I've heard on TV and read in print said it was the right call.

I suppose they could all be wrong, but I'll defer to the experts on this one.

matteric · Post by **matteric** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:08 pm

Obvious pick play. If you're going to cheat at least fake it better. If the WR would have engaged the db and just turned around like he was looking for the ball... this would have not been called a pick and "The Fighting Ethnic Group" wins the game.

If you want to talk about actually getting jobbed... all you have to do is look at the PAC 12 refs on a every game basis.

With Cal in field goal range and down by 2 with just over a minute to go in the game... the PAC 12 refs called this an interception with the db having complete control of the ball before he went out of bounds...

Cal wins the game... if it were any other conference's crew officiating the game.

unreal.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:38 pm

matteric wrote:With Cal in field goal range and down by 2 with just over a minute to go in the game....

... they dialed up maybe the worst play call I've seen in my entire life (that's not even hyperbole), and threw a home run ball to an obviously-covered receiver.

I couldn't stop laughing.

Hell, the Cougs laughed at that theft-of-a-defeat.

Classic.

One run up the gut would have pretty much iced it. Pretty sad that every armchair QB in the country knows more about football than Lesbians and his staff.

But you'll forget all about your perceived slight come Friday evening. The blood flow you're currently egesting from your vag will increase exponentially... and you'll blame the 40 point asskicking on the zebras.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:12 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
matteric wrote:With Cal in field goal range and down by 2 with just over a minute to go in the game....
... they dialed up maybe the worst play call I've seen in my entire life (that's not even hyperbole), and threw a home run ball to an obviously-covered receiver.

I couldn't stop laughing.

Agree about how terrible of a play call that was.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:29 pm

88 wrote:I've watched that video a ton of times now.

If Prosise turns around to receive the pass or even sell the idea he's being held by Ramsey...that's not getting called a pick and might even be a call against FSU. Both outside receivers ran straight out from the line and engaged the guys in front of them. 26 for Florida State (Williams) appeared to be the guy heading over to cover Robinson but didn't have a chance given Robinson had outside leverage pre-snap and he had to get through 4 bodies to cover the route. Getting lost in coverage was not the penalty but it was the intended result.

I'll say it again...it was a well constructed play but Prosise not turning to face Golson is the tell to me that he was blocking on the play and not going out to receive a pass. He pushed his man 5 yards and didn't turn around. That's going to be called on most occasions. If he did what the outside receiver (Brown) did which was engage the defender but turn to face the passer...he probably gets away with that move.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:22 pm

Even if you think it was on Prosise, his job is to get a yard or two deep in the endzone and turn around and look for the ball. By the time he reaches that depth, the ball is already out and almost in Robinson’s hands because of the busted coverage.

If the coverage was not busted, Golson wouldn’t have made that throw and there would have been no call because the play would have continued to develop.

He made the call, whatever, I disagree with it. The main thing that irritated me was that they were allowing the DB’s and WR’s to be physical on that drive. They could have called PI on Darby on 1st down (would have been ticky tack) or holding on second down, but chose not to. Seemed like they were “letting them play” in basketball parlance.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:24 pm

88 wrote:The PI was not on Prosise. It was on Will Fuller, the outside ND wide receiver.

Yep, it was on Fuller.
No, it was on Prosise.
Honestly, it was on Fuller.
Ok seriously, it was on Prosise.

Sin,
ACC Refs

They changed who it was on 3 different times.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:09 pm

Are you armchair refs still disagreeing with the... professional CFB ref here?

The violation couldn't have been any more flagrant if they were putting together a demo reel of when to call OPI.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:51 pm

By the way...where is the "Penn St got jobbed" thread?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:52 pm

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:12 pm

You could add USC to that list as well.

But I loved the B1G explanation on those two calls.

"Uh, yeah, there were some technical difficulties on the interception review and we just completely fucked up on the field goal."

I'm sure that makes PSU fans feel better.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:26 pm

Killian wrote:But I loved the B1G explanation on those two calls.

"Uh, yeah, there were some technical difficulties on the interception review and we just completely fucked up on the field goal."

It's pretty fucked up when your average joe sitting in his recliner watching the game on TV can easily see what happened on the play, but the only people on the planet who actually need access to the replay, don't have it.

Okay, "technical difficulties." Shit happens, I guess. So why can't they go to the TV broadcast to take a look? Why does a rule against that even need to exist?

Rules for the sake of having rules. It's all so stupid.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:10 pm

My question is why don't they have the game streaming on WiFi just in case someone cuts a cable?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:01 pm

Welcome to a typical week in the PAC. You B1G folk make a big deal out of it, here Out West, it's Monday watercooler talk if a game's officiating doesn't suck.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:00 am

88 wrote:That being said, the bad calls did not affirmatively dictate the result of that game. If the interception is reviewed and reversed, no one knows what might have happened. The same with the field goal. You take it off the board and the game changes. No one knows. But the call at the end of the ND vs. FSU game did affect the outcome of the game. It made FSU a winner and ND a loser.

I would say 10 points in a game that was tied at the end of regulation more than likely had a pretty big impact on the result, but I can't argue with your logic.

Oh well, I'm not complaining. I want the Buckeyes ranked as highly as possible by the time Nov 8 rolls around.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:16 pm

Dinsdale wrote:Are you armchair refs still disagreeing with the... professional CFB ref here?

The violation couldn't have been any more flagrant if they were putting together a demo reel of when to call OPI.

^^^^ This. It was the correct call. End of fucking story. Anything else is just whining from people who don't know or understand the rules of the game.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:32 pm

Papa Willie wrote: Rack the Mace sighting! It's weird, but I had taken Iowa to cover in today's game. Saw the score a little while ago and thought "Whoa - Uncle Mace has GOT to be happy!"

And then you're here. Hope you're doing good...

Yes, I'm very happy with the game today and I suspect you're very happy about the Georgia loss too. Doing good, PW, and watched a lot of football today because it was too cold to golf after the Iowa game. Hope things are going well for you too.