Impeachment: Fast and Furious, Gunrunner

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:49 am

Looks like Bambi's only shovel ready jobs were burying Border Patrol agents murdered with weapons his BATFE deliberately allowed to be sold illegally and frequently over the objection of the gun dealers themselves. This brilliant project was financed by the 09 stimulus. Good fucking job, dumbfucks. How is all this Hope and Change treatin ya?

The lawmakers have been investigating an A.T.F. program called Operation Fast and Furious in which federal agents knowingly let weapons slip across the Mexican border in the hope of tracing them to drug cartels. Two of the guns later turned up in Arizona, where an American Border Patrol agent was killed in a shootout.

Mr. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, and Mr. Issa, Republican of California, have accused the Justice Department of obstructing their investigation into who authorized the operation, which was begun in fall 2009 by the Phoenix field division of the bureau.

Mr. Melson told committee staff members, the letter said, that he had wanted to cooperate with the investigation earlier but that the Justice Department had directed him and other officials “not to respond and took full control of replying to briefing and document requests from Congress.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/us/po ... 7guns.html

Whoops. I guess running guns into Mexico out of the Phoenix office wasn't quite fucked up enough. Makes it kinda tough to argue that this was some kind of isolated incident of some rogue field office.

Breaking News: Source claims ATF's Tampa SAC walked guns to Honduras

Exclusive Special Report by Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea

Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Tampa Field Division, ran a gun-running investigation that was walking guns to Honduras using the techniques and tactics identical to Fast and Furious, it was reported to these correspondents this evening via private correspondence from a proven credible source.

On 21 September, 2010, A. Brian Albritton, United States Attorney for the Middle District of Florida issued a press release on Operation Castaway :

United States Attorney A. Brian Albritton, Virginia O’Brien, Special Agent in Charge of central and northern Florida Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) operations, and Susan McCormick, Special Agent in Charge, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Homeland Security Investigations, Tampa Field Office announce the initial results of Operation Castaway, an intensive and wideranging Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) firearms trafficking investigation conducted by ATF, ICE, the Orange County Sheriff’s Office, the Osceola County Sheriff’s Office, the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office, and the Miami-Dade Police Department. ATF describes Operation Castaway as the most significant firearms trafficking investigation in Central Florida history.

According to court documents, a group of defendants connected to Hugh Crumpler, III, were involved in a major international gun trafficking operation. . . . Firearms like those involved in this investigation are often smuggled through Honduras and other Central and South American countries before being used in violent crimes in Mexico and other countries in the region. A number of the firearms trafficked by the defendants in Operation Castaway have been linked to violent crimes around the world.

The press release concluded, "This case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys J. Bishop Ravenel and E. Jackson Boggs. Operation Castaway remains an ongoing investigation."

SAC O’Brien was previously the Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix Field Division, was later promoted to the Deputy Assistant Director of ATF, but then stepped down to the position in Tampa. Whether the allegations of our source refer to the ongoing Operation Castaway remains at this hour unclear, but our source is certain that O'Brien has allowed the "walking" of straw-purchased firearms to Honduras using the same failed strategy as the Phoenix Field Division's Operation Fast and Furious. That Operation Castaway involved arms smuggling to Honduras is also certain.

"This is confirmed as accurate," the correspondence continued. "There are emails in existence where O’Brien has advised those involved that Tampa does not have to report their walked guns because Tampa FD is not a part of Southwest Border or Project Gunrunner."

"From a first person source she is sh*tting herself trying to cover it up," the report stated.

No one from ATF is available at this late hour to approach for comment. This information has also reportedly been disclosed to Chairman Darrell Issa of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Ranking Senate Judiciary Committee Member Charles Grassley for follow-up and investigation.

http://m.examiner.com/examiner/db_/cont ... ue#display

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... radar.html

I guess this is what Oshitskin was talking about when he mentioned that he was working on gun control under the radar. Never let a crisis go to waste and if you can't find one...manufacture it by flooding the streets with illegal weapons in the hands of the most violent criminals on earth.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:26 am

Don't worry about me. My teflon armor is supplied by the main stream media....AND you know who.....

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:33 am

I think we safely blame the Chimp for this one.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:43 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:I think

That's where you always go wrong.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:54 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:I think we safely blame the Chimp for this one.

the operation, which was begun in fall 2009

Good luck with that. Still batting .1000 I see.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:38 pm

mvscal wrote:Still batting .1000 I see.

:?

1.000?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:57 pm

All of the geniuses who voted for ObaMao should be impeached from life.

18,000 yobs created in June??

bwaaaahahahaha!

Is that for real or did I sleep all the way to April 1st?

A $1,000,000,000,000 'stimulus' stimulated that?

Change

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:24 pm

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:40 pm

mvscal wrote:
LTS TRN 2 wrote:I think we safely blame the Chimp for this one.

the operation, which was begun in fall 2009
Good luck with that. Still batting .1000 I see.

And this make a difference, how exactly? If the unemployment rate can go UP, and economic growth can go DOWN in the first 6 months of 2011 and still be Chimpy's fault, there's no reason shit that started in 2009 can't be blamed on him

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:55 pm

The Chimp is to blame for abetting the entire New Pearl Harbor of 9/11, and then abetting the totally fraudulent war on Iraq--which has gutted our economy--and that's about $3 trillion down the drain. The Chimp was on watch when the entire sub-prime meltdown ensued, and he bailed out his Wall St. buddies. The gun tracing program is very small change. The Chimp bestrides the nation's collapse like a demented closet homo with a lobotomy.

Carson · Post by **Carson** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:09 pm

So he's your twin?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:14 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The Chimp is to blame for abetting the entire New Pearl Harbor of 9/11, and then abetting the totally fraudulent war on Iraq--which has gutted our economy--and that's about $3 trillion down the drain. The Chimp was on watch when the entire sub-prime meltdown ensued, and he bailed out his Wall St. buddies. The gun tracing program is very small change. The Chimp bestrides the nation's collapse like a demented closet homo with a lobotomy.

Even if everything you just said was completely factual and not the product of syphilitic dementia, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the ATF, FBI and DEA have been placing hundreds if not thousands of extremely dangerous semi-automatic rifles into the hands of Mexican drug cartels and they are doing so under the direction of the US attorney in Phoenix.

That certainly doesn't happen without the knowledge of the Attorney General and it very likely does not happen without the knowledge of TOTUS assuming he wasn't out golfing or making an ice cream run that day.

EDIT:

Ooops. Looks Obongo left his grimy pawprints all over this fiasco.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:12 am

Holy shit! Are you really such a wooden witless dolt as to not get a joke? Look, Barry has simply continued--and expanded--the Chimp's agenda, economically, militarily, and Black Ops, etc. The so-called "Obamacare" is an ineffectual ruse to placate the moronic right, providing them a steady target, etc. Of course Barry caved in entirely to Big Pharma before getting it passed. You are such a boring a-hole!

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:01 pm

That's actually a tough question, p-willie. The natural option would be to not vote at all. It's pretty common when disgusted with all the choices. However, if the GOP actually runs out Bachmann or Romney, well any patriotic American would be called upon to do whatever they could to prevent this. As an act of basic patriotism. From the very first minute Barry popped up his smiling head and started the cool smooth "progressive" rhetoric, I was suspicious. And almost immediately such suspicions were confirmed. He is a fraud, pure and simple. But only a fraud to the liberal tradition he pretended to represent. The howling republicans actually have nothing to complain about. But then they are basically insane up and down the line. Which one isn't? Inhofe? DeMint? Sessions? Newt? Who isn't a raving lunatic in the GOP these days? Name one.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:46 am

Tom In VA wrote:

Tom, while I might find agreement with some of this man's points, he offers quite a lot of speculation - not really backed up by known facts.

Guess we'll wait and see what transpires.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Agreed. I find his productions to be interesting and thought provoking, creepy even.

Perhaps we can discuss in the Theology forum as I'd value your elaboration on the things with which you agree and those that you don't.

Ultimately though, "wait and see what transpires" is about all that can be done.

On this topic, I found another interesting angle on this whole "Fast and Furious" imbroglio. It suggested it was done purposefully as a "False flag" as well or at best an attempt to hit "two birds". Ultimately, drug cartels and criminals weren't the targets though. The second amendment and the further disarmament of the law abiding citizens was the primary target in this.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:25 pm

Tom In VA wrote:On this topic, I found another interesting angle on this whole "Fast and Furious" imbroglio. It suggested it was done purposefully as a "False flag" as well or at best an attempt to hit "two birds". Ultimately, drug cartels and criminals weren't the targets though. The second amendment and the further disarmament of the law abiding citizens was the primary target in this.

You have proof to back that up?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:37 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:On this topic, I found another interesting angle on this whole "Fast and Furious" imbroglio. It suggested it was done purposefully as a "False flag" as well or at best an attempt to hit "two birds". Ultimately, drug cartels and criminals weren't the targets though. The second amendment and the further disarmament of the law abiding citizens was the primary target in this.
You have proof to back that up?

That I found another interesting angle ? Yeah, I read and viewed some folks opinions on the matter and raised my eyebrow -

And said - "Interesting. Who the fuck knows ?". I'll provide links those peoples opinions when I can.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:45 pm

Tom In VA wrote: I'll provide links those peoples opinions when I can.

Let me help you out:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:59 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
Tom In VA wrote: I'll provide links those peoples opinions when I can.
Let me help you out:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

Thanks, I'll return the favor in kind.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... Plot-.aspx

Scandal: Rather than a botched attempt to catch criminals, was the ATF program actually an attempt to advance gun-control efforts by an administration that has blamed Mexican violence on easy access to U.S. weapons?

If "Operation Fast and Furious" was merely a botched attempt at law enforcement, why was a supervisor of the operation, David Voth, "jovial, if not, not giddy but just delighted about" marked guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico, as career Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent John Dodson told Rep. Darrell Issa's House Oversight Committee?

Perhaps because all was going as planned until it was learned that two of the AK-47s recovered at the scene of the fatal shooting of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in December were bought in ATF's Operation Fast and Furious. That wasn't supposed to happen.

"Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals — this was the plan," Dodson testified to the panel. "It was so mandated."

ATF agent Olindo James Casa said that "on several occasions I personally requested to interdict or seize firearms, but I was always ordered to stand down and not to seize the firearms."

Yet, as we've noted, gun-tracking operations stopped at the border. That seems odd if the purpose was to catch gun traffickers and their drug-lord bosses. It makes sense, however, if the real purpose was to perpetuate, in the interests of pursuing the administration's gun-control agenda, what Bob Owens of Pajamas Media calls the "90% lie."

I haven't really formulated an opinion on it one way or another. The ATF is replete with professsionals, more qualified than me for instance, so maybe this idea - to track gun traffickers and their drug-lord bosses, was a good one in theory and just went south due to the law of unintended consequences. Whether it was intended as a way to create a problem so the fed could rush in with a solution, i.e. more infringement-remains to be seen and probably will always be relegated to the "opinion" domain.

Coast to Coast isn't a bad show. Used to listen to it working late a lot.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:07 pm

I know what you’re saying,Tom. I haven’t formulated an opinion yet about the persistent stories concerning Ronald Reagan having a perverse penchant for fucking chimpanzees going back to the production of “Bedtime for Bonzo”. I read these stories and I go "Interesting. Who the fuck knows?"

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:50 pm

Glad you can relate.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:59 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:On this topic, I found another interesting angle on this whole "Fast and Furious" imbroglio. It suggested it was done purposefully as a "False flag" as well or at best an attempt to hit "two birds". Ultimately, drug cartels and criminals weren't the targets though. The second amendment and the further disarmament of the law abiding citizens was the primary target in this.
You have proof to back that up?

What other purpose could be served by intentionally permitting illegal weapon sales and then allowing those weapons to leave any effective control?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:08 pm

mvstinfoilhat wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:
Tom In VA wrote:On this topic, I found another interesting angle on this whole "Fast and Furious" imbroglio. It suggested it was done purposefully as a "False flag" as well or at best an attempt to hit "two birds". Ultimately, drug cartels and criminals weren't the targets though. The second amendment and the further disarmament of the law abiding citizens was the primary target in this.
You have proof to back that up?
What other purpose could be served by intentionally permitting illegal weapon sales and then allowing those weapons to leave any effective control?

You honestly believe that this was all part of a plot to repeal the second amenment and to take legal guns away from US citizens?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:21 pm

I don't see any other plausible alternative scenario that fits the facts. Try answering my question.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:30 pm

Following criticism from Republicans over a controversial gun-trafficking program, Kenneth Melson, the acting chief of the ATF, is facing pressure to resign. But it turns out that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the head of the House Oversight Committee and one of Melson's chief critics, was briefed about Operation Fast and Furious last year and did not express any opposition to it at the time.

The Washington Post reports:

At the briefing last year, bureau officials laid out for Issa and other members of Congress from both parties details of several ATF investigations, including Fast and Furious, the sources said. For that program, the briefing covered how many guns had been bought by “straw purchasers,’’ the types of guns and how much money had been spent, said one source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the briefing was not public. “All of the things [Issa] has been screaming about, he was briefed on,’’ said one source familiar with the session.

The ATF program was designed to monitor the illegal sale and transfer of guns from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels. At a House Oversight Committee hearing last week, ATF agents told lawmakers that instead of arresting the small-time buyers, they were instructed to stand by and watch to see where the guns went in an effort to build a case against bigger arms dealers.

Doing so, however, meant that U.S. guns wound up in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. And after Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was murdered in a shootout along the Arizona-Mexico border in December, two weapons found on the scene were linked that the “Fast and Furious” program.

The committee released emails last week detailing Melson's involvement in the program, and Issa called on the acting director to resign in an interview with Fox News.

“He was part of the bad judgment. And when I say bad judgment, it wasn’t just him,” Issa said. “They had to go to Justice to get money, to get FBI agents, all of the other people that helped coordinate this, and to get the wiretaps they used. This was a program so stupid from the start.”

Sounds like an enormously stupid program, but I don't believe it was some conspiracy to take away my guns. I think Terral’s waiting for you up in the Ozarks.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:but I don't believe it was some conspiracy to take away my guns.

You still haven't addressed the bottom line:

US law enforcement agencies deliberately allowed the sale of military quality small arms to Mexican drug cartels. We're far beyond simple stupidity here.

The only plausible reason for doing this is to precipitate a crisis and use that to enact draconian gun control legislation. If you have a plausible alternative scenario, I'm all ears.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:06 pm

Well gee, Avi, you're really spinning your wheels today, aren't you? Look around--everywhere LESS gun control is the steady current. Especially in Tea Bagger areas, open and concealed weapons are now legal. Are you just on auto-smear?...Oh, of course you are. My bad.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:06 pm

mvschickenlittle wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:but I don't believe it was some conspiracy to take away my guns.
You still haven't addressed the bottom line:

US law enforcement agencies deliberately allowed the sale of military quality small arms to Mexican drug cartels. We're far beyond simple stupidity here.

The only plausible reason for doing this is to precipitate a crisis and use that to enact draconian gun control legislation. If you have a plausible alternative scenario, I'm all ears.

I find it totally plausible that government agencies would hatch thoroughly crackpot schemes in an effort track down Mexican drug cartels. I still don't believe it was some elaborate conspiracy to take away my guns. But continue on with your cackling.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Well gee, Avi, you're really spinning your wheels today, aren't you? Look around--everywhere LESS gun control is the steady current. Especially in Tea Bagger areas, open and concealed weapons are now legal. Are you just on auto-smear?...Oh, of course you are. My bad.

I noticed you didn't cite so much as one example of any sort of gun-control legislation being repealed.

Because what you say is almost always 180 degrees from the truth.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:22 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:I find it totally plausible that government agencies would hatch thoroughly crackpot schemes in an effort track down Mexican drug cartels.

That's nice except for the fact that this crack pot scheme doesn't track down Mexican drug cartels. In fact, it doesn't and could never track down anything because they let those weapons out of their control. The only time they "track" any of these weapons is when they turn up at a crime scene.

The well-intentioned yet "thoroughly crackpot scheme" isn't plausible nor does it fit the facts.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:26 pm

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Look around--everywhere LESS gun control is the steady current.

And you would need a big, bloodspattered international crisis to swim against that current now, wouldn't you? Lights coming on yet?

Wakey, wakey...

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:30 pm

mvscal wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:I find it totally plausible that government agencies would hatch thoroughly crackpot schemes in an effort track down Mexican drug cartels.
That's nice except for the fact that this crack pot scheme doesn't track down Mexican drug cartels. In fact, it doesn't and could never track down anything because they let those weapons out of their control. The only time they "track" any of these weapons is when they turn up at a crime scene.

The well-intentioned yet "thoroughly crackpot scheme" isn't plausible nor does it fit the facts.

Operation Fast & Furious is the name of an illegal gun trafficking sting run by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). It started in 2009 and ended in late 2010 shortly after the death of Brian Terry, a US Border Patrol Agent and has since become the subject of controversy and a U.S. congressional investigation. During the operation, at least 2,000 guns were released and tracked by ATF agents into Mexico, many of which have been linked to at least 150 shootings.

But don’t ever underestimate the stupidity of the US government.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:33 pm

BTW, it seems these guns have been used to slaughter thousands of Mexicans. It could just be a brilliant approach to lessening the tide of illegal immigrants.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:32 pm

mvscal wrote:
LTS TRN 2 wrote:Look around--everywhere LESS gun control is the steady current.
And you would need a big, bloodspattered international crisis to swim against that current now, wouldn't you? Lights coming on yet?

Wakey, wakey...

Wait a minute...who's swimming against it? The government IS the new looser laws! You're veering in a Beckening fashion. Typical.

Arizona state Sen. Lori Klein (R), a gun-rights champion, keeps a loaded raspberry-pink handgun in her purse, and during an interview with Arizona Republic reporter Richard Ruelas, she took it out and pointed it at him.

"Oh, it's so cute," Klein said, before aiming the gun at Ruelas's chest to show off the red beam of the laser sight. Klein's gun, a .380 Ruger, has no safety, but the senator assured Ruelas that he wasn't in danger.

"I just didn't have my hand on the trigger," she said.

Klein told the Arizona Republic that she owns a number of guns and has had "informal" training sessions on each of them, and that she was taught gun safety by her father.

Local gun activists have criticized Klein for pointing her gun at Ruelas, however.

Rob Mermelstein, the range master of the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club, told the Arizona Guardian, that Klein's actions were "unconscionable."

"Whoever would do something like that needs to have a better grounding in gun safety before ever laying a hand on a firearm," he said.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:18 pm

Sure I did. I pointed out, with evidence, that he was a closet queer--the result of which was calamity on all fronts. Believe it or not--and I'm not just throwing you greasy treats--I actually think there's a real chance that his dad, Shicklgruber, was of some Jewish extraction, the anxiety of which providing Adolph with even a deeper complex than his sexuality. Same with Wagner, whose real dad, Geyer, was possibly Jewish--and just the thought of that turned Wagner into a seething nutjob. Remember always that whether it was Wagner, Hitler, Jabotinsky or Herzl, they all were fiercely racist National Socialists who wanted all Jews out of Europe.

Got that?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:02 am

Tom, about the clip, most of it seems political, social, or psychological in nature.
Theologically, I see two main points.

1. Christians should pray for Barry. I agree.

2. He's not the anti-Christ. I agree. I don't see evidence that he is.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Suggesting what? That you would recognize evidence of the "anti-Christ"?

What a load of steaming shit.

However, if you check out the new book about Barry's dad, "The Other Barack Obama," you might start thinking he was the Beast.

Jeff in SD · Post by **Jeff in SD** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:47 am

I don't see the reason for all the hub bub when Nappy the Skunk has assured us the border is more secure than ever.