When it comes to sports I'm an NFL fan and nothing else. The last MLB game I watched in its entirety was a World Series game between the Angels and... and... well the Angels put a beatdown on whoever it was. I don't know much about the National Pastime. What I have seen of it would lead me to say it does not suck. Just not really into it ovah here.
(Would the Nationals or Orioles give me reason to be, anyway? )
The question is: is there a "game within the game" that you particularly focus on and like when watching a game?
When I'm watching every bit of NFL I can, of course I'm a 'Skins fan, but for all else I'm a hugetime fanatic of DEFENSE. Loves me some of that side of the ball. There was a game last season between the Browns and Bengals where there were mere cardboard cut-outs subbing in for the defensive personnel. Watching that would not be the best, for me. Quarterback clobbering, running game stuffing street fight like games rule.
How defenses counter offense is the game within the game I zero in on.
Is there anything analogous in MLB?
Seems to me the answer would generally be no since the game appears so organically whole in the linked unity of how things play out. But I don't trust my knowledge of MLB, 's why I'm asking. TIA.
velocet wrote:
The question is: is there a "game within the game" that you particularly focus on and like when watching a game?
Absolutely there is and I think you've answered your own question.
How defenses counter offense is the game within the game I zero in on.
And vice-versa.
The stategy in baseball is so much more involved and the manager has almost complete control of that aspect. When to sacrifice bunt, when to hit & run, when to change pitchers, when to play the infield halfway, etc., etc.
As opposed to football, where the HC is more into pre-game planning and attempting to control chaos rather than actually being able to make any significant decisions (other than no brainers) during the game that will affect the outcome. A football head coach is much, much more dependant on his assistants on game day.
It's been said that baseball is a "thinking mans" game, and I totally agree with that.
while i like to say i love baseball, i dont enjoy watching it on tv. huge fan of box scores and stats. as a brewer fan, ive become a bit numb to postseason games but this could be the year. hope hope. if sabathia or sheets is pitching, i definately tune in if its on. sportscenter has probably ruined lots of me*s into just catching the highlights. the only time in my life i ever watched ALOT of baseball was when the braves were on tbs. i hated the braves then and feel sorry for them now. as a card collector, i subscribe to 5 different baseball magazines. most of them, not having anything to do with who is winning or losing.
i dont like the redskins either, but velocent is one of my favorite imaginary friends.
bbqjones wrote:while i like to say i love baseball, i dont enjoy watching it on tv.
I'll watch TV, but the game is 10 times more enjoyable in person where you can see the entire field instead of the small area the camera can focus on. TV does show you the strike zone better, which is nice.
huge fan of box scores and stats.
That's your inner fantasy geek talking. Same here. First thing I do when cracking open the paper is look at last nights box scores.
I agree with Todd...the pitcher vs. batter matchups is the game within a game. The strategy of the baseball isn't quite as complex as football but there definitely key questions throughout the game you have to ask yourself if you're the manager of a team.
It's the 7th inning and I'm up a run with one out. I've got my right handed starter that has thrown a solid game but his pitch count is up but I could get him to the 8th inning if I have to. I burned up my bullpen yesterday in an extra inning game. A lefty with good power is at the plate that my starter has retired the first three times at bat but the guy could be due for a big hit. There are three righthanded hitters following this lefthanded hitter. Do I bring in my situational lefty out of the bullpen just to face this one guy or do I walk him and put the tying runner on base and let my starter face those right handed hitters?
It's the 8th inning in a tie game. My starting pitcher is due up but he's thrown a 3 hitter up to this point and I have the bottom of their order due up in their half of the 8th inning. I've got a runner on second with nobody out and there's a career .290 hitter on my bench. Do I pinch hit for my starter or do I have the pitcher stand in and bunt the runner over to third? I'll have my leadoff man coming up next and all he'll need to do is hit a fly ball to take the lead.
It's only the 5th inning and I'm down 1-0 in a game that appears to be a pitchers' duel and runs will be difficult to come by. It's a 2-0 count and I have a runner on first with 1 out but this batter is notorious for grounding into double plays. Do I roll the dice and put on a hit and run, call for a bunt or do I just give the hitter the take sign to get to 3-0 and try to get this guy on base with a walk?
There's countless situations where you have to check numbers and trends but there's also just some situations where managers go with their gut and make a bold decision that may back fire or lead to a win. Out of being the coach of the four major sports...being a manager for a baseball team would probably be the most stimulating during a game.
In football, you have a defensive and offensive coordinator that might call the plays and the head coach really doesn't do a whole lot during the game but is integral in the week preparing for the big game. In hockey and basketball, it's really all about matchups and substitutions and ultimately, it's about the players making plays. It's really the same situation in football and baseball as well but there's more involvement and decision-making by coaches/managers in those sports than in the other two. To be a basketball coach with a star player is probably the easiest job in pro sports.
For me, it's the mental game between the pitcher/catcher combo (people grossly underestimate the catcher's role in the mental interplay) and the batter.
There's so, so many subtleties involved, it's hard to describe. Watching Greg Maddux bring that disinterested gaze, along with his inconsitent timing, is really something to behold. Or the sheer intimidation-gaze that a healthy Pedro Martinez brings to the mound.
On the other side, you have the great hitters -- In his day, few were as good at the mental aspect as Bernie Williams... he made absolutely sure that the game was being played at his pace when he was in the batter's box, and was a true master at dictating the timing. Then you have Planet Manny -- completely disinterested, and doesn't scowl, glare, or give a shit when the pitcher throws the ball -- he does his intimidating with his swing. Or you have the tough-guy intimidators -- Albert Pujols being an excellent example -- he looks like he'd just as soon walk out and beat the pitcher's ass than take his AB. Same goes for Jim Thome, one of the more physically intimidating hitters of the era.
Then, it continues -- when you get a speedy baserunner, the mental game takes on a new element. When a master baserunner gets aboard, even if he's not the fastest guy/most proficient base stealer, it still changes the game...
Look no further than Derek Jeter for an example. Never the most productine base stealer, but few guys get into a pitcher's head when they're on 1st like Jeets does... he often accomplishes more by not stealing than he does by going... especially with the garthocks NY usually has lined up behind him.
Yup. For me, it's the mental chessmatch between the pitcher and hitter/baserunner... much of which is silently dictated by the catcher.
One of the things I love about baseball is the fact that they play everyday. If you play like shit one day, you can redeem yourself the next day. Unfortunately, for us Royals fans, it's more of the same crap every night so that can't be said for my team.
If you root for a team like the Royals there's all kinds of ways to bet on the game with your friends that fans of other teams can't. For example, you can bet on how they'll lose that day or how many fucking routine pop-ups will be misplayed. And when a certain pitcher is on the mound you can bet on how many 89 MPH fastballs over the heart of the plate they will throw with the count 0-2.
Being a Royals fan ain't for the faint of heart. It requires an ability to down many a booze because one can't possibly watch this garbage sober.
But the best part about baseball for us Royals fans is Spring Training just before the season starts. Because every year we hope that maybe one mother fucking time our Top 10 draft picks will improve and become good big leaguers but every fucking year it's the same old shit. Like right now.....Alex Gordon is a complete and utter bust. He was the #2 pick in the draft and supposedly a can't miss prospect. Yeah, right. The fucker can't hit and now he can't field. Billy Butler, 11th pick in the 2004 draft.....bust. Luke Hochevar, #1 pick in the 2006 draft, worst fucking excuse of a pitcher I've ever seen.
Other top draft picks over the last 10 years or so...
Colt Griffin, Mike Stodolka, Dan Reichert, Mike MacDougal, Jim Pittsley, Chris Lubanski......stop me when you've heard of one of those guys! I need a beer!!
But seriously, I love everything about baseball. Nothing in the world beats a day at the 'ol ballpark. People call it boring because there's no action. That's not true. I love trying to guess what pitch is coming. It's a mind game between pitcher/catcher and hitter that people that don't follow baseball just don't understand. The toughest thing to do in all of sports is to hit a baseball and these guys make it look so easy.
Give me a tasty burger, an ice cold Boulevard, and maybe some nachos and put me in a seat at Kaffman Stadium and I could sit there for hours!
Slightly off-topic here, but this is what draws me to baseball.
Baseball is idiosyncratic. It is the only sport where the defense has possession of the ball. It is very much a team sport, but what starts the action is a one-on-one duel: pitcher vs. batter. The game has its oddball dimensions: 60 feet, 6 inches from the pitcher's rubber to home plate; 9 innings in a game; home run dimensions that vary from one stadium to the next. The game proceeds at a relatively leisurely pace, and for that reason, during a game baseball lends itself to a good story in ways that other sports do not, cannot.
Baseball is timeless, in more ways than one. It's the only team sport (unless you call tennis doubles a "team sport") without a game clock. You can't snuff out an opponents' rally merely by running out the clock. The defense has to make a play to stop a rally. It's also timeless in the sense that the game hasn't changed as much as other sports. Certainly it has changed in some regards -- for example, major league teams now play west and south of St. Louis, which wasn't the case as recently as the mid-50's; night-time games are now the rule rather than the exception, even on Saturdays; and Sunday doubleheaders, a summertime staple of my youth, have now sadly gone the way of the Edsel, a victim of the almighty dollar.
But the most significant game change on the field has been the implementation of the designated hitter rule. That rule, of course, is dwarfed as a change to the game by two-platoon football, which is now standard at every level above the high school level. But baseball fans are more traditionalist, and therefore less likely to accept change than football fans. The DH rule comes in for much more argument, both pro and con, than does the two-platoon system in football. Yes, the relative newness of the DH rule has something to do with that, but the AL adopted the DH in '73, and people born after that time continue to argue that rule. Artificial playing surfaces have also come in for more criticism among baseball fans than football fans, I would argue, even though artificial surfaces are a greater cause for injury concern in football. It's also worth noting that, with the exception of the DH, teams across the league play baseball players at the same positions as other teams. In that regard, baseball hasn't changed, and it's a far cry from both football (multiple offensive sets, some teams use a fullback whereas others do not; on defense, some teams play a 4-3 defense and others play a 3-4) and basketball (occasionally teams employ a 3-guard set, more commonly in college than in the NBA; like the fullback in football, some teams use a true center and others do not).
Baseball is a truly unique game, moreso than any other sport, and that's the reason why I like it. Full disclosure: I swore off baseball, ostensibly forever, after the '94 players' strike. Within two years I was completely back, although in fairness, the post-strike success of my Yankees probably had a little to do with that.
War Wagon wrote:The first time I click on one of your youtube links will be the first time.
You're either very stupid, or you have a sick sense of humor.
Oh yeah, oops, I forgot about that. My bad. I remember hearing all about his mental meltdowns but I had completely forgotten that dude killed himself. You'll have to excuse me, I don't actually remember him playing. Just heard a lot about the guy. People that commit suicide are fucking dumb, so I try to forget idiots that can't suck it up and tough it out. Suicide is the easy way out and so I have no sympathy for them. Just their families. It's a selfish act and proves you're a worthless piece of crap if you do it. So even though I wasn't cracking a joke there, I don't think a joke about suicide is all that "sick". Rip away, that's fine.....I don't give 2 shits about a person that's so damn selfish that they have to kill themselves. I may encourage it upon a few people (ie racists, murderers, wife beaters, etc), but I don't feel bad for someone that does that. It just proves you're weak and selfish.
Yes, Terry, I know you've got some "you dickhead, you don't understand mental problems" take for me. Great. Fire away. I'll laugh my ass off at your take.....I promise you that.
You're either very stupid, or you have a sick sense of humor.
Oh yeah, oops, I forgot about that. My bad. I remember hearing all about his mental meltdowns but I had completely forgotten that dude killed himself. You'll have to excuse me, I don't actually remember him playing. Just heard a lot about the guy. People that commit suicide are fucking dumb, so I try to forget idiots that can't suck it up and tough it out. Suicide is the easy way out and so I have no sympathy for them. Just their families. It's a selfish act and proves you're a worthless piece of crap if you do it. So even though I wasn't cracking a joke there, I don't think a joke about suicide is all that "sick". Rip away, that's fine.....I don't give 2 shits about a person that's so damn selfish that they have to kill themselves. I may encourage it upon a few people (ie racists, murderers, wife beaters, etc), but I don't feel bad for someone that does that. It just proves you're weak and selfish.
Yes, Terry, I know you've got some "you dickhead, you don't understand mental problems" take for me. Great. Fire away. I'll laugh my ass off at your take.....I promise you that.
it's funny till a close family member shoots herself. personal anecdote.
it's also a funny rant to tell a friend whose dad just shot himself while another friend is nearby whose sister hung herself. another personal anecdote about a foot in my mouth, despite the fact of my first anecdote.
I had a friend back in high school commit suicide. Do you think I was sad he died? A little. Until I realized that someone that's dumb enough to kill themselves probably wasn't gonna do much with their life anyways. No joke. That's really how I felt.
I remember on the car ride to the funeral, I rode with my boss from work (the dude that shot himself was a co-worker of mine) and he says something like "it's so sad because you just never know what he might have done with his life". I didn't say anything but I was thinking "probably a giant waste of space".
Like I said, it's sad because of what the family has to go through. But it's not sad because some waste of space offed themselves. As far as I'm concerned, it's better for society. And I'm all about what's best for society. Just sayin'....
I would just like to say there are certain situations in which I feel bad for the person that committed suicide....
Just not for someone that got taunted for giving up a HR, or got made fun of at school, blew all their money gambling or other similar reasons.
I'd feel bad for someone in situations where they killed themselves because they suffered through so many painful injuries that they just couldn't physically take it anymore (ie multiple heart attacks, etc), or if they had so many traumatic events in their life such as witnessing friends/family being murdered. I would feel bad for someone in those cases.
But losing your ass at the casino and then taking the easy way out by putting a bullet through your mouth is lame and I don't feel bad for you. Feel bad for your family, not you.
Sorry, but I was raised to face my problems and take responsibility for my actions. Not take the easy way out. Suicide ain't the answer and if you're dumb enough to kill yourself, you probably aren't a loss to society.
M Club wrote:it's funny till a close family member shoots herself. personal anecdote.
True story, also a personal anecdote -- first divorce case I ever handled, the wife (not my client) wound up shooting herself while the divorce was pending.
I've never considered suicide funny after that.
War Wagon wrote:The first time I click on one of your youtube links will be the first time.
R-Jack wrote:Well, if it was you client, I'd have found that suicide fucking hilarious.
As your story stands now, shame on you for not using that to your advantage. Think about it. Someone needs a tough, take no prisoners attorney. Who better than the attorney so tough that people off themselves at the sheer thought of facing him in court?
Go with it. I'm seeing you in a triumphant pose with images of nooses and Budd Dwyer in the background. Pardon the pun, but give it a shot.
To answer that on a more serious note . . .
I beat myself up for quite some time over that. But in a very real sense, my hands were tied.
New York doesn't recognize no-fault divorce laws. It is possible to sue for divorce in New York upon a written separation agreement in effect for one year or more, but these people weren't going to agree on anything, so that wasn't a realistic option. My client had told me of one incident where she came up to him at his place of employment, put a gun against the small of his back, and said, loudly enough for him to hear but not loudly enough for anyone else to hear, "You will never get a divorce from me. You will die first." Since the only grounds available in this case was cruel and inhuman treatment, I wanted to make sure that my client actually would get a divorce, so that incident was mentioned in the Complaint. Doubtless it shook her up to see that.
It's sad that she apparently considered murder and/or suicide a preferable alternative to divorce. But if that was the case, she needed mental health treatment badly. I wasn't in position to provide that to her.
War Wagon wrote:The first time I click on one of your youtube links will be the first time.
It's sad that she apparently considered murder and/or suicide a preferable alternative to divorce. But if that was the case, she needed mental health treatment badly. I wasn't in position to provide that to her.
But I am sure your slimey ass had no problem billing her estate for the work you did, and what you likely inflated your billings too. After all, you were in no position to help here.
Fucking lawyers...go ahead and take the bar stool next to the tax collectors in hell.
Nice hijack on the MLB thread fuckstain.
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
Remember listening to Vin Skully on the transistor radio when my dad was working in the back yard in So CA...I was about 5 years old. Went to my first Dodger game that year. Still have the banner hanging on my office wall.
Played all the Little League, Babe Ruth, HS ball, Jun co.
Coached for 13 years from T ball to HS level.
The major league experience....
Train to Seattle last weekend. Nice relaxing trip..Bloody Mary on the way up.
Walk to hotel - Alexis in downtown Seattle..nice digs
Shopping in downtown Seattle in the afternoon.
Walk to Safeco Field about 16 blocks. Stopped at an Irish Pub, and jazz bar for a couple of pops.
Walk by Sluggers and the Triangle bar and watch all the 30 to 45 year old dudes wearing jerseys and damn near full uni's getting tanked.
Tell 2 pan handlers to fuck off.
Buy bag of peanuts from old Chinese guy barking outside the stadium.
It never gets any better , every time when you walk in a major league stadium before a game and see the crowds, the teams taking BP....
Get a killer Polish dog and garlic fries washed down with a fucking cold Coors LIght.
Game on...crush the peanuts--vendor brings another cold beer to my seat.
Boo every time A rod comes to the plate.
Yell " Juice" at Giambi when he comes up.
Game over- walk back to hotel, hit Irish bar again for night cap.
Seattle beats the Yankees 3-2.
Get up next morning - hit the Continental breakfast.
Start walking the docks - hit the shops Space Needle - Duk Boats- Jimi Hendrix Music experience - Pacific Science Musuem.
Walk Pikes Place market holding on to my wallet in pocket. Fucking zoo--never again.
Do the Crab Pot Dinner - waiter dumps pot full of crab, mussels,corn on the cob,potatoes,oysters..a feast backed with 3 Jack and waters.
Hit the hotel for a roll and shower.
Walk to the game - hit same bars for 2 pops again..tell 2 pan handlers to fuck off.
Get my game beer - watch Seattle implode in the 7th.
Go to the concourse and get the chocolate covered strawberries on a stick.
Walk back to hotel, but turn in to Ben and Jerrys for ice cream.
Same Irish pub for a night cap.
Back to hotel - mount the wife and call it a night.
Get up and hit Ivars acres of Clams breakfast buffet on Sunday. Eat every kind of gourmet food possible, with Irish cream coffee.
Walk to train station - get on train - do one cross word puzzle and fall asleep. Wake up , read the paper and get off trian in Portland and a short car ride home.
Already planning next years trip.
THAT IS WHY I LIKE BASEBALL.
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
I moved to SW DC about a month ago. I now live at the corner of Half St and M St SW, which is three fucking blocks from Nationals Park. This isn't the #1 reason why I landed here, but it's a pretty sweet #3. Despite overcharging for the best seats, and therefore, having most of them empty during games, the Nats have a pretty sweet ticket deal. Two sections in the upper deck are $5 each and only go on sale two hours before the game. There is little to no parking around the stadium right now, so the catch is the team hopes to recoup the money by having you go straight into the stadium 2 hrs before it starts and spend money in there. Myself? Fuck no. Go home a crush a few beers before first pitch. Usually during the week, if I get out of work in time, I can roll up to the park around 6 and get a ticket. On the weekends, I have to be there exactly 2 hrs before or else they'll sell out the $5 tickets. I've been to 10 games so far this season and I've only been in the metro area for 90 days. Only wish the team would be a bit better.
BTW, Philly fans are the scum of the fucking earth and I wish they would all be run over by Metro buses after the games.
It's sad that she apparently considered murder and/or suicide a preferable alternative to divorce. But if that was the case, she needed mental health treatment badly. I wasn't in position to provide that to her.
But I am sure your slimey ass had no problem billing her estate for the work you did, and what you likely inflated your billings too. After all, you were in no position to help here.
Fucking lawyers...go ahead and take the bar stool next to the tax collectors in hell.
Nice hijack on the MLB thread fuckstain.
Reading is not Derron's strongsuit (I'd add Sin, Marcus but even that is too obvious).
As R-Jack pointed out, JON hijacked this thread on suicide.
Also, I represented the husband, not the wife. So I had no reason to bill her estate (which was probably insolvent anyway). I knew the husband socially and never had a problem with him about fees, but if anything, I was probably a bit generous to him in that regard.
War Wagon wrote:The first time I click on one of your youtube links will be the first time.
It's sad that she apparently considered murder and/or suicide a preferable alternative to divorce. But if that was the case, she needed mental health treatment badly. I wasn't in position to provide that to her.
But I am sure your slimey ass had no problem billing her estate for the work you did, and what you likely inflated your billings too. After all, you were in no position to help here.
Fucking lawyers...go ahead and take the bar stool next to the tax collectors in hell.
Nice hijack on the MLB thread fuckstain.
Reading is not Derron's strongsuit (I'd add Sin, Marcus but even that is too obvious).
As R-Jack pointed out, JON hijacked this thread on suicide.
Also, I represented the husband, not the wife. So I had no reason to bill her estate (which was probably insolvent anyway). I knew the husband socially and never had a problem with him about fees, but if anything, I was probably a bit generous to him in that regard.
But your a lawyer..and you post like your a human being and act like you actually give a shit, instead of the low life whale shit on the bottom of the ocean you are...
And nice rack on yourself for being so GENEROUS on your fees...you actually left dude enough to get a meal and beer ?
How very nicccceee of you to do that...that will delay your entry into hell by about 5 seconds when your number is called.
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
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