Time for a new rig.

[smackaholic]

50 bucks, prolly is an exageration. I suspect the lug nut monkey don't make anymore than high twenties per hour.

This is still an obscene amount of money, especially when you consider omst of these fukkers like in the midwest where the cost of living tends to be pretty reasonable.

Imagine if everybody out there got paid like union goons, especially gubmint union dudes.

My best friend works for the CT dept. of mental health. His job, basically is to baby sit crazy people. Doesn't require a degree or any special training, really. He is not a psychologist or nurse. They have them on staff as well and I'm sure they are even more overpaid.

Anyway, this buddy of mine pulls in REAL close to 100K a year. Admittedly he is an OT whore. And their retirement plan is ridiculous. More than any private sector fukk could ever hope for, even a UAW dweeb.

The part that really sux is that UAW greed is, in the end, limited by economics. Gubmint union fukks however just keep on squeezing us and what the fukk can we do?

[KC Scott]

American as baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie. Got a link to prove that banks in Russia own shares in GM, or am I just supposed to take your word for it?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b315cad6-4522 ... ck_check=1

Russian tycoon buys GM stake
By John Reed in London

Published: August 7 2007 21:31 | Last updated: August 7 2007 21:31

Oleg Deripaska, the owner of Russia’s biggest aluminium maker, has acquired a stake in General Motors of just under 5 per cent, say two people with direct knowledge of the matter.

The Russian tycoon’s stake in the world’s largest car company, worth more than $900m at Tuesday’s share price, is said to be a personal investment and unrelated to Gaz, the vehicle manufacturer he controls.
“He has a stake in GM which he acquired some time ago,” said one of the people, who declined to be identified.
“It’s a strategic investment on his part and unrelated to Basic Element [Mr Deripaska’s holding company].”
The investment has not been discussed officially within Gaz’s management.
Renee Rashid-Merem, a spokeswoman for GM, said the US carmaker did not comment on its stockholders.

However, she said that there had been no relevant filing to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, which would be required for any investor seeking to buy 5 per cent or more of GM. Basic Element declined to comment. Mr Deripaska owns the aluminium giant, United Company Rusal, and recently invested $1.54bn in a large stake of Magna, the Canadian car parts and vehicle assembly company.

News of his GM investment is likely to excite speculation about the carmaker, which is in the middle of restructuring but last month reported unexpectedly strong quarterly earnings. GM’s highest-profile minority shareholder recently was billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, whose Tracinda Corp at one point owned nearly 10 per cent of the company.

Tracinda prodded GM to hold talks on a possible alliance with Renault and Nissan, a move the US carmaker’s management rejected. Tracinda has since sold its GM shares. Gaz is seen as one of the developing world’s most ambitious carmakers, and its name has been linked to Ford Motor’s efforts to sell Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo, its three premium brands, as it was to DaimlerChrysler’s sale of Chrysler. However, Gaz has denied any interest in Jaguar or Land Rover. Its primary business is commercial vehicles, of which it is Russia’s dominant producer. Reports that Mr Deripaska was seeking to build a stake in GM surfaced last year.
At the time, he denied he planned to amass a large stake in the company.

They pay the uneducated $50 an hour...

Gotta say I was wrong on this one - it's actually $73 per hour.......

GM on the road to much lower wages
Kevin Krolicki And David Bailey, Reuters
Published: Friday, October 05, 2007

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. will be able to replace roughly a quarter of its factory workers with lower-cost hires under the tentative contract reached last week with the United Auto Workers union. The tentative contract identifies "in excess of 16,766" union-represented jobs that could be filled with new hires at roughly half the cost of current workers, according to a text of the document. A majority of GM's 73,500 UAW-represented workers must ratify the proposed contract in a series of local votes expected to conclude next week. If approved, the deal would allow GM to slash the labour cost advantage enjoyed by Toyota Motor Corp. and the two other Japanese automakers operating production plants in the United States.

The average UAW-represented GM assembly line worker makes just under US$28 per hour now before health-care and other benefits that take total hourly labor costs to US$73, the automaker has said.

By contrast, Toyota's average hourly cost for workers at its U.S. plants was under US$48 per hour including benefits.

GM and other U.S. automakers have argued they need more flexibility to bring in lower-cost temporary hires and the ability to fill janitorial and other jobs in their plants below the UAW-mandated wage scale.

UAW president Ron Gettelfinger said last week that the union and GM were negotiating a program of buyouts and early retirement offers for the automaker's workers who are making the higher wages.

But it had not been clear until yesterday how much room GM would have under the terms of the contract to bring in replacements at lower wages and with less expensive health-care and pension plans.

Although the GM contract has been ratified by a large margin in the first votes by at least six local units, some union workers have expressed concern about the contract's two-tier wage structure.

In a side-letter to the contract, GM and the UAW also identified 3,126 jobs now outsourced to non-union companies that could be transferred to UAW-represented companies at the lower wage rates.David Cole, chairman for the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., estimated that the deal could cut GM's labour cost disadvantage against Toyota to about US$800 per vehicle from about US$4,000 on the average car or truck. The GM contract with the UAW has been expected to provide a model for Ford Motor Co. and privately held Chrysler LLC.

Exaggerate much?

No - I read much...

Who's on strike? And last I checked, the UAW had made major concessions on benefits and wages.

Google Delphi - the union refused wage concession, struck and now and it drove them into Bankruptcy.

But regardless of that, Union shops by their very existance help non-union workers earn better wages, benefits and working conditions as well. Or don't you realize that?

You do realize Unions are a form of Socialism, right?
They had outlived their usefullness by the '60s, and served only as limitation to trade.
They also contribute to price inflation and hinderance of technological development (automation)
Wonder why the japs make better cars? electronics?
They made their workers partners in the company through profit sharing.
Now contrast that with the extortion of the UAW and the like.

It's a big picture Dave...

[Goober McTuber]

Gubmint union fukks however just keep on squeezing us and what the fukk can we do?

Cry like a little schoolgirl and watch another episode of The Bachelor. Bitch.

[Mister Bushice]

My best friend works for the CT dept. of mental health. His job, basically is to baby sit crazy people. Doesn't require a degree or any special training, really. He is not a psychologist or nurse.

Not always as easy as it appears. Some of those crazy people are 6'5" 250 pound juggernauts of retarded pain looking for a place to inflict it.

Hell I've see a brain crazed 5 foot nothing 98 pounds soaking wet mental patient take on 3 male staff members, each one fearing they would lose a digit or an ounce of flesh if he managed to clamp down on it with his drooling diseased chicklet filled maw. Unmedicated insanity can generate unheard of strength.

I wouldn't do that job for 100 K. Those crazy fuckers are all nuts

[Dog]

The only American cars I've ever owned have been trucks. But I'm considering the Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan for my next one...but have been VERY happy with my Chevy Silverado.

As far as passenger cars go....NFW I'd buy a ford/chevy/chrysler. They suck....Period.

I'll probably never buy another non-Toyota car in my life.

[RevLimiter]

take total hourly labor costs to US$73, the automaker has said.

Interesting, Scott.

I say interesting because I sent a copy of your post to three friends of mine that work at the GM Fairfax plant in KCK, and they EACH got a hearty BWA! out of it....and they wanted me to ask you where these $73-per-hour jobs could be had within the company. Yeah yeah yeah, I know I know....you're just the "messenger". Save it.

Moral of the story: Don't believe everything you read in the news, folks.

[RevLimiter]

they're willing to strike and/or send the company to bankruptcy rather than give up cash and benefits....

Who's on strike? And last I checked, the UAW had made major concessions on benefits and wages.

But regardless of that, Union shops by their very existance help non-union workers earn better wages, benefits and working conditions as well. Or don't you realize that?

RACK.

UAW got taken to the proverbial WOODSHED by the Big Three in the last year. Don't believe me? Just ask ANY card-carrying UAW member.

[Goober McTuber]

take total hourly labor costs to US$73, the automaker has said.

Interesting, Scott.

I say interesting because I sent a copy of your post to three friends of mine that work at the GM Fairfax plant in KCK, and they EACH got a hearty BWA! out of it....and they wanted me to ask you where these $73-per-hour jobs could be had within the company. Yeah yeah yeah, I know I know....you're just the "messenger". Save it.

Moral of the story: Don't believe everything you read in the news, folks.

The $73 dollar figure (I've seen higher and lower) isn't an hourly pay rate. It is a per hour labor cost (i.e., the total labor cost GM has to pay for each hour worked by an employee). The average hourly wage is something like $27 per hour. The difference (~$46) is current benefits and "legacy" costs, which are the retirement dollars and benefits that GM is on the hook to pay to former employees. As GM's work force gets smaller, and as things become more automated in auto manufacturing, GM has fewer employees on the payroll. Those employees aren't making big money (Well, they are by comparison to other people who are similarly qualified today, but are not by comparison to the employees GM had on the payroll in prior generations).

Companies like Honda and Toyota do not have the huge legacy costs and current benefit expenses that GM and Ford have. So they can pay their current employees something like $30 or more per hour, which is better than GM or Ford, but still save $40+ per hour in labor costs in the car building process. That is why Honda and Toyota and Hyundai etc. are kicking Detroit's ass. The current generation is taking it in the ass for the generation that built the Pinto, Citation, Vega and K-cars.

Edit:

Here's a link: http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/10/news/co ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The union's members at Chrysler get $28.75 an hour in straight wages, according to Chrysler. That comes to just under $59,000 pay when calculated for a 52-week, 40-hour a week year. Overtime pay and other adjustments generally takes the pay even higher.

But the total labor cost is far above that hourly wage when the cost of health care for both active and retired employees, as well as pension and other benefits, are factored in. Chrysler estimates it pays $75.86 an hour in total hourly labor costs. That's not only significantly more than the $46 an hour average at the U.S. plants of Asian automakers, but it's also higher than GM and Ford have been paying.

GM's labor costs came to $73.26 an hour even before the latest cost-saving labor deal, while Ford was paying $70.51. The UAW granted GM and Ford cost savings on their retiree health care programs over the last two years, but it did not grant the same cost relief at Chrysler because until recently its parent company was still making money. Chrysler was itself posting a profit until mid-2006, while GM and Ford started reporting losses on their North American operations in early 2005.

KFC Paul's head is now spinning at an alarming rate, fortunately lubricated by excess chicken grease.

[Dr_Phibes]

They had outlived their usefullness by the '60s, and served only as limitation to trade.


It's a big picture Dave...

So how is that big picture looking? In terms of trade? Working out well for the nation, is it?

Those workers actually do something.. they manufacture a product that's indispensable. On the other hand, how much do you make? It shouldn't be anything, because in reality, you don't actually do anything - you're an administrator of capitalism, you produce nothing for no one.

Sorry Scott, but you're contribution to society is no different than a vampire or a welfare queen. You create money from money - for people who aren't actually working for it.

RACK comrade War Wagon!

[Mikey]

I won't give up my F250 Crew Cab.

Attaboy.

I just relocated my office 0.2 miles from my home. It's a 90 second door-to-door commute with 1 traffic light. I should be able to walk to work 8 months out of the year. The lease on my wife's Volvo matures in about a year (God I hate that fucking car). When her lease matures, I'll probably let her drive the new Honda I bought last year and then buy a beater truck for kicking around local and stuff. We are looking at some rural property to build a hillbilly shack on. I might needs me some truckage to haul beer and deer you know.

Yup. I live in a "semi-rural" area...you know lots of hills and 1 acre minimum lots. Horsey properties and avocado groves. When I was working out of my home office all I needed was the truck, but that didn't last - as nothing good does forever. The current 40 mile round trip commute was killing me at 10 mpg. I've got a little Hyundai V6 that's pretty peppy and gets better, though not great, mileage. A 240 mpg space vehicle would save a lot on gas and would be the coolest car in the neighborhood too, for a while at least.

The truck is indespensable for hauling stuff around, and it's the best camping vehicle in my boy's Scout troop...besides the Excursion with leather seats and DVD player in the back. That thing's just a fancified F250 anyway.

[Ang]

I think someone mentioned already that long term is not what is really so important with looking for a car for a kid.

But long term is important when I spend dollars for a car, and as much as I appreciate WW's ideals of buy American, the only car I've bought in my adult life that crapped out on me early was American made. I had Hondas, low line cheap Hondas for years and none of them ever had a problem. In a moment of the thought of saving a few dollars by buying a Saturn instead of a Honda, we bought a Saturn. A truly enjoyable car to drive, if you don't have to drive it too long. At about 50,000 miles the whole steering rack had to be replaced, and the whole air to carburetor breathing thing was always a problem. My hubbie was stealing golf tees out of my golf bag to block one particular hose that was always a problem...and that was after we took it in for service and they told us that it was working perfectly, even though it died all the time and many times would not restart. The golf tee worked fine, at least until the day we took it out to go trade in the car for another Honda.

As for USA loyalty, the world actually should have stopped turning last year, because my 82 year old dad who never bought anything but a Ford is now driving a Nissan Titan truck and absolutely loves it. He has gotten major grief from some of his old buds reminding him that he was at Pearl Harbor, and all he says is...if cars and trucks are the only way you have to deal with it, then you have more of a problem than with me buying this truck.

But, back to the issue of a car for a new driver. First off, I would never get a two year old car for a new driver, unless there was a real reason to. We have a kid who will be driving soon, and we are going to get him a beater. We just found out that a sister has an old small truck she wants to get rid of and it runs well, so I think we are going for that. Lucky for us our kid isn't into status cars and all that, so he's kind of jazzed about getting an old truck to drive to school. He goes to a very preppy school and he kind of likes having the retro/alternate sort of starter car. Plus the school is only 3 miles away and dad and kid both are good with mechanics so reliability is not a huge issue.

If he had to drive a long crosstown commute, that would be a whole other consideration. Like the 2 year old used car thing.

[RevLimiter]

As for USA loyalty, the world actually should have stopped turning last year, because my 82 year old dad who never bought anything but a Ford is now driving a Nissan Titan truck and absolutely loves it. He has gotten major grief from some of his old buds reminding him that he was at Pearl Harbor, and all he says is...if cars and trucks are the only way you have to deal with it, then you have more of a problem than with me buying this truck.

So your dad's a sellout, huh? Very sad, to say the least. Thank him for me for contributing to the recession of this country and more than likely the cancellation of one or more American jobs because he bought that Nissan Titan.

Makes me fucking SICK when somebody who's old enough to know better still hands their hard-earned money over to a country that at the end of the day HATES us and always will and is gaining more and more BODE everyday on us because of people like your father.

FUCK JAPANESE CARS/TRUCKS, PERIOD.

[rozy]

As for USA loyalty, the world actually should have stopped turning last year, because my 82 year old dad who never bought anything but a Ford is now driving a Nissan Titan truck and absolutely loves it. He has gotten major grief from some of his old buds reminding him that he was at Pearl Harbor, and all he says is...if cars and trucks are the only way you have to deal with it, then you have more of a problem than with me buying this truck.

So your dad's a sellout, huh? Very sad, to say the least. Thank him for me for contributing to the recession of this country and more than likely the cancellation of one or more American jobs because he bought that Nissan Titan.

Makes me fucking SICK when somebody who's old enough to know better still hands their hard-earned money over to a country that at the end of the day HATES us and always will and is gaining more and more BODE everyday on us because of people like your father.

FUCK JAPANESE CARS/TRUCKS, PERIOD.

Nothing really more needs to be added than to say that you are one extremely ignorant idiot. No, seriously, you are.

Malibus? Some finance companies STILL won't write a note on a used Malibu. Kias and Hyundais have gained better reputations now than a freaking Malibu.

I'm gonna love the day Tony raises the Championship Cup while standing next to his Toyota. Just to see you and Whitey melt and whine.

What is really funny to me is that I talk to people all over the country every day. The most backwards, trailer trash, redneck, hick, Jerry Springer show fill-in people that I talk to are easily the ones from Missouri. And it ain't even a nary bit close.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Makes me fucking SICK when somebody who's old enough to know better still hands their hard-earned money over to a country that at the end of the day HATES us and always will and is gaining more and more BODE everyday on us because of people like your father.

See this is where you are entirely fucking wrong (big shocker, I know).

Ang's Dad, does know better. He knows not to buy into some bullshit red, white and blue marketing scheme. He bought the best value for his dollar. He made the decision, because as Americans we are free to make these decisions. To think that you should buy an American car, just because it's American is idiotic at best. American automakers are getting their ass kicked by the Japanese & Koreans because of people like you, nit those of us smart enough to buy the better product. You are enabling them to put out an inferior product with little consequence. If even more Americans wised up and purchased Toyotas, Hondas & Hyundai/Kia maybe the US automakers would finally understand that they need to change. Toyota is the modern day champion in "lean manufacturing." If you don't know what that is, it is simply the removal of waste from the process. It is applied across many industries in all aspects of business, benefitting many Americans. US automakers have yet to truely adopt this simple philosphy. That is just one area that they are lagging behind in, we can talk about quality initiatives (six sigma) when you recover from yet another monumental ass kicking.

[Goober McTuber]

As for USA loyalty, the world actually should have stopped turning last year, because my 82 year old dad who never bought anything but a Ford is now driving a Nissan Titan truck and absolutely loves it. He has gotten major grief from some of his old buds reminding him that he was at Pearl Harbor, and all he says is...if cars and trucks are the only way you have to deal with it, then you have more of a problem than with me buying this truck.

So your dad's a sellout, huh? Very sad, to say the least. Thank him for me for contributing to the recession of this country and more than likely the cancellation of one or more American jobs because he bought that Nissan Titan.

The Nissan Titan is built in Canton, Mississippi, and was nominated for the North American Truck of the Year award for 2004, you FAT fucking RETARD.

[War Wagon]

Toyota is the modern day champion in "lean manufacturing." If you don't know what that is, it is simply the removal of waste from the process. It is applied across many industries in all aspects of business, benefitting many Americans. US automakers have yet to truely adopt this simple philosphy. That is just one area that they are lagging behind in, we can talk about quality initiatives (six sigma) when you recover from yet another monumental ass kicking.

Yikes, someone has been indoctrinated in Kaisen philosophy and knows all the buzz words. Don't even get me started on 5S. Hey TWIS, who do you think taught the Japs that process? Yep, you guessed it. Americans did, and yep, they use it against us.

[BSmack]

Toyota is the modern day champion in "lean manufacturing." If you don't know what that is, it is simply the removal of waste from the process. It is applied across many industries in all aspects of business, benefitting many Americans. US automakers have yet to truely adopt this simple philosphy. That is just one area that they are lagging behind in, we can talk about quality initiatives (six sigma) when you recover from yet another monumental ass kicking.

Yikes, someone has been indoctrinated in Kaisen philosophy and knows all the buzz words. Don't even get me started on 5S. Hey TWIS, who do you think taught the Japs that process? Yep, you guessed it. Americans did, and yep, they use it against us.

If there is anything that makes business less efficient than upper management attempting to "manage process improvement" I don't know what it is. How about just letting creative people do their jobs in the best manner possible?

[Goober McTuber]

They really don't make a an eye roll thingy big enough

I’ll bet Motorola could.

[KC Scott]

take total hourly labor costs to US$73, the automaker has said.

Interesting, Scott.

I say interesting because I sent a copy of your post to three friends of mine that work at the GM Fairfax plant in KCK, and they EACH got a hearty BWA! out of it....and they wanted me to ask you where these $73-per-hour jobs could be had within the company. Yeah yeah yeah, I know I know....you're just the "messenger". Save it.

Moral of the story: Don't believe everything you read in the news, folks.

88 covered it - it's the hourly wage + healthcare cost + various insurances + retirement benefits

Or did you think those things were free?

The level of ignorance of typical blue collar America is stunning.......

[KC Scott]

They had outlived their usefullness by the '60s, and served only as limitation to trade.


It's a big picture Dave...

So how is that big picture looking? In terms of trade? Working out well for the nation, is it?

Those workers actually do something.. they manufacture a product that's indispensable. On the other hand, how much do you make? It shouldn't be anything, because in reality, you don't actually do anything - you're an administrator of capitalism, you produce nothing for no one.

Sorry Scott, but you're contribution to society is no different than a vampire or a welfare queen. You create money from money - for people who aren't actually working for it.

RACK comrade War Wagon!

Thanks for the new Sig material, P

But you may have confused what I do - I'm a Director of Business Development with a real product - or at least as real as 1s and 0s can be.

All Marxism aside, once you actually start making money, should you ever aspire to such a Bourgeoisie endever, your view of the world is quite likely to change.

[Mikey]

So, you're in sales?

:wink:

[BSmack]

How about just letting creative people do their jobs in the best manner possible?

Sounds like an 'E' ticket ride to bankruptcy to me.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be accountability. But when you start trying to "manage" process improvement, you're taking time and resources away from developing better products. I've seen way too much of it in my current job. But hey, I'm sure it's nothing ANOTHER reorganization won't fix.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Toyota is the modern day champion in "lean manufacturing." If you don't know what that is, it is simply the removal of waste from the process. It is applied across many industries in all aspects of business, benefitting many Americans. US automakers have yet to truely adopt this simple philosphy. That is just one area that they are lagging behind in, we can talk about quality initiatives (six sigma) when you recover from yet another monumental ass kicking.

Yikes, someone has been indoctrinated in Kaisen philosophy and knows all the buzz words. Don't even get me started on 5S. Hey TWIS, who do you think taught the Japs that process? Yep, you guessed it. Americans did, and yep, they use it against us.

Maybe there is some hope for you yet Wags. Henry Ford is probably rolling over in his grave about this very point, which is why I made it. If you were able to connect a few more dots and you'd be driving a Jap car.

[War Wagon]

88 covered it - it's the hourly wage + healthcare cost + various insurances + retirement benefits

Or did you think those things were free?

The level of ignorance of typical blue collar America is stunning.......

Scott, you tried to pass it off that the average line grunt was making $50 an hour in take home pay, which isn't exactly the case, now is it.

The level of your arrogance is stunning.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

(six sigma)

They really don't make a an eye roll thingy big enough for that steaming load of bollocks.

Go google a fucking explination to this.

[War Wagon]

Maybe there is some hope for you yet Wags. Henry Ford is probably rolling over in his grave...

As is Edward Deming.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Toyota is the modern day champion in "lean manufacturing." If you don't know what that is, it is simply the removal of waste from the process. It is applied across many industries in all aspects of business, benefitting many Americans. US automakers have yet to truely adopt this simple philosphy. That is just one area that they are lagging behind in, we can talk about quality initiatives (six sigma) when you recover from yet another monumental ass kicking.

Yikes, someone has been indoctrinated in Kaisen philosophy and knows all the buzz words. Don't even get me started on 5S. Hey TWIS, who do you think taught the Japs that process? Yep, you guessed it. Americans did, and yep, they use it against us.

If there is anything that makes business less efficient than upper management attempting to "manage process improvement" I don't know what it is.

Then it is a good thing that "lean" isn't about

[BSmack]

Scott, you tried to pass it off that the average line grunt was making $50 an hour in take home pay, which isn't exactly the case, now is it.

The level of your arrogance is stunning.

Try reading for a change.

The average UAW-represented GM assembly line worker makes just under US$28 per hour now before health-care and other benefits that take total hourly labor costs to US$73, the automaker has said.

Let me know if you are still struggling. I'm here to help.

To be perfectly fair, I wouldn't just take GM's word for it.

[KC Scott]

88 covered it - it's the hourly wage + healthcare cost + various insurances + retirement benefits

Or did you think those things were free?

The level of ignorance of typical blue collar America is stunning.......

Scott, you tried to pass it off that the average line grunt was making $50 an hour in take home pay, which isn't exactly the case, now is it.

The level of your arrogance is stunning.

No, it's not how I wrote it, but how you perceive it.

Blaming others for your perception is not the first step towards enlightenment

[Cuda]

I live in a "semi-rural" area...you know lots of hills and 1 acre minimum lots.

That's what's known as "suburbs" in the U&L [/dinsdale]

Horsey properties and avocado groves...

Around here, "Horsey properties" start at 100 acres. What the fuck can you do with a horse do on a single acre besides have it eat & shit?

[Dinsdale]

I was just curious --


How many of you that feel you're qualified to comment on automotive workmanship, reliability, and fit-and-finish have ever repaired cars for a living?

TIA, and yes, you should feel stupid.

[RumpleForeskin]

The point is to remediate Wank Wagon's poor reading comprehension.

Living in a fantasy world I see.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Don't need to. I've seen it first hand. It's a waste. This is the kind of lame, bullshit that comes out of HR seminars and corporate retreats.

Your company would have to have to be a complete train wreck to get your money's worth out that program.

You failed at implementing a 6S excersize so the whole idea must suck, right? I guess GE, Lockheed Martin, Microsoft & those idiots at Motorola who came up with the idea don't know shit compared to you?

[smackaholic]

6 sigma is obviously a good idea.....when implemented with a bit of comon sense.

Everyday here at work, I see glaring examples of 6 sigma stupidity.

I maintain mail inserting equipment. It isn't rocket science. Don't tell the director of maintenance services that though. He is one of those managerial types that thinks that every fukking thing that happens needs to be measured.

Measuring things can be helpful....sometimes. But, when the act of measuring takes as much time as what it is you are measuring, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out you are being wasteful.

Every maintenance action we take, no matter how trivial, is supposed to be logged on these handheld POS thingies we carry around. The fact that they lock up all the time or use a virtually worthless virtual keyboard doesn't seem to bother the bossman. Just so long as he's getting "data". So what if it's inaccurate. So what if you spend 8 hrs working and 4 hrs documenting it. Just so long as he gets his data and puts together graphs to show us how epcot we are. He does this quarterly. He gets on a plane in suckramento, flys across the country and says, you guys rock! He buys pizza though, so no one bitches. He does the same for our KC facility.

Nope, no waste there. No waste at all.

And you need a tie wrap? Go order a few on the 'puter, go to the parts window and wait for the parts bitch to get 4 tie wraps out of stock. I tried explaining how monumentally stupid this was, but, he assured me that he needed to know how many tie wraps were used today on machine number 673. He also claimed it cut down on tie wrap use!!

Who cares that it costs more in labor to sign it out, then the tie wrap is worth. Who cares if wiring gets ripped out of a machine and puts it down for a week because somebody didn't tie a cable up properly because, they didn't feel like taking 10 minutes to get a tie wrap.

Ofcourse we pretty much ignore the rules and sign them out by the hundred, anyway. But, it still means that I get to sit there and shake my head as parts bitch counts out 100 tie wraps.

It's no fun working in a dilbert comic strip some days!

[Mikey]

I live in a "semi-rural" area...you know lots of hills and 1 acre minimum lots.

That's what's known as "suburbs" in the U&L [/dinsdale]

Horsey properties and avocado groves...

Around here, "Horsey properties" start at 100 acres. What the fuck can you do with a horse do on a single acre besides have it eat & shit?

I said "minimum 1 acre". Not everybody has horses.

A couple of acres is plenty if you just have a horse or are boarding a few. Of course that means that they can't run freely over hill and dale and eat fresh clover all the time. There aren't many 100 acre parcels left around here, anyway.

This is down the street, though, and I doubt that they have 100 acres...

[Dinsdale]

I live in a "semi-rural" area...you know lots of hills and 1 acre minimum lots.

That's what's known as "suburbs" in the U&L [/dinsdale]

Horsey properties and avocado groves...

Around here, "Horsey properties" start at 100 acres. What the fuck can you do with a horse do on a single acre besides have it eat & shit?

I said "minimum 1 acre". Not everybody has horses.

Funny this comes up, since Clackamas County, most of which can be considered Portland suburbs, has the most horses-per-capita of any county in the USA. I believe Washington County, the other major grouping of suburbs, is #2. CrackOfMyAss is home to the most prolific breeder of champion Arabians (the high-dollar pleasure horses).

'Round these parts, we call a big house on 1+ acre in the burbs a "7-figure property."


But that's not a limiting factor -- the crazy lady down the street keeps a horse right in her front yard... until the city comes and hauls it away again. She always seems to get it out of impound, and grazes it in her front yard again. At least the guy next door to her no longer landscapes his yard with the worn-out slicks from his race cars, which he'd rattle-can white and make flower beds out of. My neighborhood is class, all the way... just ask Jose'.

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

6 sigma is obviously a good idea.....when implemented with a bit of comon sense.

Yup.

Who said we failed? We went through it and got very little out of it. A properly run business has no need of silly bullshit like that. Six Sigma is no subsititute for competent management nor will save you from incompetant management.

There are a number of possible reasons why you didn't get anything out of it. Again, no reason to throw throw the baby out with the bathwater. Did you blame the bat when you struck out? 6S is a tool that when implemented and used properly will provide positive results. Very little will save you from incompetant management, nowhere did I even come close to making that claim.

I can't speak to the other corporations on the list, but there is no doubt GE was a grade A jugfuck. I suspect the others were equally dysfunctional.

All of those companies use 6s as a source of quality improvement. I surprised that someone like you is so pissy about something that is rooted in facts and objective statistical analysis.

[KC Scott]

To be perfectly fair, I wouldn't just take GM's word for it.

I've looked over several different estimates - the lowest is $43 - the highest $83

Even if you took the lowest, it's still way too much for manufacturing

[Mikey]

I'm pretty sure Cuda lives somewhere between the Rockies and the Appalachians

[Goober McTuber]

I was just curious --


How many of you that feel you're qualified to comment on automotive workmanship, reliability, and fit-and-finish have ever repaired cars for a living?

TIA, and yes, you should feel stupid.

Didn’t you used to play defensive tackle for the Green Bay Packers?


No, my bad, that was Cletidus Hunt.