(m) Job Openings at 2 Phoenix TV Stations (m)

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:21 am

chargerfan wrote: We're gonna need some more news chopper guys, I guess.

Sin

RACK the DH1 reset! Classic.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:28 am

L45B wrote:
chargerfan wrote: We're gonna need some more news chopper guys, I guess.

Sin

RACK the DH1 reset! Classic.

2nd.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:49 am

Kierland wrote:I hope something good comes from it.

It already has.

It's given folks 3 days to taunt, laugh at, and ridicule other folks in here.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:11 am

Luther wrote:I think one if not both helicopters that were used by their respective TV stations were called, "NewsChopper 4" and whatever the other one was might have been the same.

Rip City

NewsChopper4.

Ironic name, considering there are 4 dead.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:40 am

Mike Backer wrote:
Radio wrote:Do you seriously think somebody like Rupert Murdock is behind the curtain, pulling strings and turning knobs on this? Here's a hint: He isn't, fucktard, no matter how much you "think" he might be. Believe it or not, LOCAL media, isn't affected in day-to-day operations, no matter WHO owns them. Think about it, for Christ's sake. Nobody has to "tell" them to be competative, nor can anyone do it for them. Owners don't determine headlines in papers and they sure as fuck don't determine what gets put on live TV news.
Jesus Christ. You really ARE a retard. The only thing I said was that these things are edited and crammed into one show usually shown ad nauseum on one of the lesser networks that you TiVO the shit out of, and you go off on a Wizard of Oz rant. Seriously, mix in some comprehension skills and get back with me.

Somehow I missed this gem.

So you really don't know who Rupert Murdock is?

He's the one in the airport restroom.

It's really a chick, in case you're interested.

Look, I agree with you that local TV news is all about emotion and ratings. Like I said in my initial post, there's probably nobody on this board that despises local TV news more than I do.

And yeah, you had a great, funny post, at the start of this thread.

But what I'm saying is that blaming these pilots for the idiocy of their bosses and the pressure of business is assinine. It's likely one or both of them made a mistake, while covering some bullshit car chase. Because one or both were trying to get in, on a tighter shot? Maybe, but nobody knows for sure, and may likely never know.

That being said, I assume you didn't watch TV, on Sept. 11, 2001, live, right? Especially the footage from helicopter crews? Last time I checked, lots of folks are concerned about the border and terrorists.

You've got me. After all, the next time there's a terrorist attack on this country, or a mass shooting at a university campus, fuck the TV news helicopters. In fact, fuck the news, period, right?

It's probably better that we're all just kept in the dark. In fact, in the event of a major terrorist attack, we should probably just go ahead and shut this board down.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:05 pm

Well it seems most of the board has lived down to their usual standards when it comes to tragedy.

Outstanding, give yourselves a hand.

Yeah yeah, I know, it's a smack board. Trust me, the men who died themselves would not only get the jokes, but find them funny. News people are cynical bastards. However, let's shed a little light, a little knowledge mixed with actual facts on this matter. I'll use Mike Backers' post to do this.

Mike Backer wrote:Congrats Jay. You USED to hang out with two dickbags that were chasing a high speed chase in the name of drama.

Two dickbags, eh? Well, fuck you for that. News and drama are two different things. You're supposed to be an intelligent guy Backer, try to show it. There were five helicopters occupying that airspace, all approved by the police and FAA. This is not uncommon. What is, is what happened. One pilot (Channel 15's) made the unthinkable error of drifting in too close to another choppers airspace. If you know anything about a helicopter, it is that visibility is somewhat limited. Losing sight of another helicopter happens during events like this, that's why the pilots are in constant communication with each other. However, as Rooster has pointed out, they are also flying an aircraft that is difficult at best to pilot, all the while, keeping an eye on the ground, the air around them and trying to maintain point of perspective for their photographer. At the same time, the are also talking and/or listening to the air traffic towers, police, other pilots and their respective news producers. Not an easy thing to do by any means. Criticizing what happened is easy. Understanding what happened isn't.

All four of the men who died were solid, good guys. They died doing what they loved. They were passionate about their jobs, about the news, but NOT to the point of throwing safety to the wind. It isn't like that. If you don't work in the business, if you have never been in a news helicopter before, you simply don't understand. And BrAnnie, you never will.

They might as well been flying for the National Enquirer. These are the same idiots that glorify Paris Hilton's herpes blisters and Lindsay Lohan's anal shingles. Your buddies are no better than a scum bag lawyers and Enron executives.

Absolute bullshit and lies. Every idiotic fucking word. The very fact that you are comparing a news entity to a tabloid mentality is ludicrous. It shows your complete lack of fundamental information in this regard. What people see on t.v. shows or movies about how a newsroom or television station operates is so far removed from reality it is laughable. Just like your ignorance. As you know nothing about how the business operates, I can almost forgive that. Your callous disregard for the loss of four good men who were simply doing their jobs, I cannot.

They prey on people just to get a slanted story that nobody's gonna care about in 24 hours.

Wrong wrong and wrong. News people don't "prey" on people. That would be tabloid folk. The paparazzi. News photogs and reporters aren't in the field 24/7 sniffing around for stories. They go out when they are assigned, when a story breaks. Can a story be slanted by a disreputable news organization? Sure. However, if you're going to accuse bias and slanted jounalism on these guys or any other, you better damn well be able to back it up and prove it. As you are an ill-informed piece of crap, I know you can't.

Well guess what? Now they're the story. That's called irony, and that's fucking rich.

That is the first thing you've typed that is accurate. They are the story. And if you could see the outpouring of sympathy and support that has come from around the city, the state and the country, you would know WHY they are the story.

If somebody dies in the name of needless sensationalism, well, buh-bye.

Fuck 'em. Let 'em cook.

No, they died covering a piece of shit thief who stole a truck and tried to kill a police officer. Not sensationalism you jackass, news. Live, breaking news. Unless you've done it, unless you know how it works...and you don't...kindly shut your festering pisshole. These guys were trying to assist in tracking down a criminal with fatal intent.

Getting the story is a priority. Safety is THE number one goal. A horrible, horrible mistake occured. Something like this is incredibly rare, given the risky circumstances.

I would never go so far as to call these guys heroes. They aren't. Policemen, firemen soldiers...they are heroes.

Rick Krolak, Jim Cox, Scott Bowerbank and Craig Smith were four news veterans with a combined experience of over 60 years. Just four men who were trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Try to consider them, remember them, for their professionalism and their humanity.

Try to think before you hit submit.

Fat Bones · Post by **Fat Bones** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:26 pm

Rack Jay in Phoenix.
RIP.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:26 pm

Absolute bullshit and lies. Every idiotic fucking word. The very fact that you are comparing a news entity to a tabloid mentality is ludicrous. It shows your complete lack of fundamental information in this regard. What people see on t.v. shows or movies about how a newsroom or television station operates is so far removed from reality it is laughable.

They prey on people just to get a slanted story that nobody's gonna care about in 24 hours.

Wrong wrong and wrong. News people don't "prey" on people. That would be tabloid folk. The paparazzi. News photogs and reporters aren't in the field 24/7 sniffing around for stories. They go out when they are assigned, when a story breaks. Can a story be slanted by a disreputable news organization? Sure. However, if you're going to accuse bias and slanted jounalism on these guys or any other, you better damn well be able to back it up and prove it.

I don't know, Jay. Every time I turn on the evening news, the top 5 to 7 stories are all about misery. Death, robberies, personal tragedies, criminals, just bad news. And whenever the TV news people in my neck of the woods get the chance, they interview the 14 year old who lived next door to the people who died in a fire and ask the kid how he or she felt when they saw the building next door in flames. knowing that their friends were trapped inside. I once watched them interview some 12-13 year old kids who witnessed a police shooting when a guy came out of his car after a police stop with a gun, asking them how they felt when they saw the guy get shot.
Pathetic.

I don't really see the need for that kind of shit, but it happens all the time. I don't even watch the local news anymore because of that. They have really become like opportunistic paparazzi. Maybe not where you are, but most certainly where I live.

Another example. About 8 years ago some idiot down the street from me had a fight with his wife and was on the front lawn, waving a gun around. The next door neighbor called the cops, and the guy holed up in his house. 30 minutes later there were 20 cop cars, SWAT guys, all setting up in the neighborhood. I snapped some pictures of the cops getting in position to snipe the dude if necessary.

We were all evacuated 20 minutes later, to get everyone out of the line of fire. The local news had a mobile unit up the street, they weren't allowed close. As I walked by I said " hey, you guys wanna buy some pictures of whats going on down there?

They brightened up immediately, but the first question they asked was "Did you get any pictures of the guy with his gun"?

me: No
them: forget it.

And so it goes.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:48 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:I don't know, Jay. Every time I turn on the evening news, the top 5 to 7 stories are all about misery. Death, robberies, personal tragedies, criminals, just bad news. And whenever the TV news people in my neck of the woods get the chance, they interview the 14 year old who lived next door to the people who died in a fire and ask the kid how he or she felt when they saw the building next door in flames. knowing that their friends were trapped inside. I once watched them interview some 12-13 year old kids who witnessed a police shooting when a guy came out of his car after a police stop with a gun, asking them how they felt when they saw the guy get shot.
Pathetic.

Sadly Bushice, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

Let me try to break it down without justifying it. People are, in general, are drawn toward excitement. Happy news, feel-good stories are almost always pushed to the tail end of a newscast. The reason, in theory, is to end a show on a high note. Most mouth breathers are going to switch to the video or story that contains the most 'bang'. A hell of a lot of t.v. viewers are mouth breathers.

I get as disgusted as the next person when a reporter shoves a mic into the face of someone, like a kid or a crying family member, and ask that most inane of all questions..."How do you feel?" You find this trait is fairly predominant among younger reporters. Old news sensibility or sensitivity is way of the past. It is indeed about getting into a viewers face via the face of person on camera. It's a judgement call on how or what a reporter and/or producer decides what to use. Often, their judgement is wrong. I will never defend that sort of jounalism.

I don't really see the need for that kind of shit, but it happens all the time. I don't even watch the local news anymore because of that. They have really become like opportunistic paparazzi. Maybe not where you are, but most certainly where I live.

And if that is the case, by all means don't watch. The only way to change how a broadcast is done is by turning the channel off. Ratings mean freaking everything, and if a negative trend is picked up on, they pounce all over it to change it. Our local news has elements of what you describe. People want to watch that crap. If they didn't, it wouldn't be shown. Give 'em what they want has always been the showbiz motto. The onus for this falls to the viewer in the long run. Like I said, if you don't like something, don't watch it.

Another example. About 8 years ago some idiot down the street from me had a fight with his wife and was on the front lawn, waving a gun around. The next door neighbor called the cops, and the guy holed up in his house. 30 minutes later there were 20 cop cars, SWAT guys, all setting up in the neighborhood. I snapped some pictures of the cops getting in position to snipe the dude if necessary.

We were all evacuated 20 minutes later, to get everyone out of the line of fire. The local news had a mobile unit up the street, they weren't allowed close. As I walked by I said " hey, you guys wanna buy some pictures of whats going on down there?

They brightened up immediately, but the first question they asked was "Did you get any pictures of the guy with his gun"?

me: No
them: forget it.

And so it goes.

Sad, but not surprising. If someone has a decent video or photo of something, you bet your ass they'll buy it. That's not bad business. Tactless perhaps, not unethical. You're going to find that all media outlets, be they television, radio, print or internet all use this practice. It's called freelance. I admire you for your stand-up decision to turn them down. Most people wouldn't. Dollar signs light up eyes like car crashes do. Maybe more.

I can absolutely see why a lot of people view this crash with cynicism and a sense of "they took a stupid risk and got what they deserve". And if that were the case this time, I wouldn't have bothered posting any of this.

This tragedy was different.

Just guys doing their jobs, the best they could, to report the chase of a criminal live. They weren't trying to "jockey for the best shot", as they all had the same shot. Two pilots lost sight of each other and communication broke down. It was a horrible accident. A fatal mistake that pretty much never happens.

I say this only because I knew the guys who died. I knew what they stood for. What they believed in, how they did thier jobs.

Let it stand at that.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:27 pm

they weren't jockeying for a better shot?

bullshit.

ofcourse they were. it was their job.

i realize these guys were just doing what they were paid to do and the "news" programs eat this shit up, but, that does not change the fact that this sort of aerial clusterfukk happening whenever somebody in a city decides to run the police is a highly irresponsible practice.

I don't know how many times I have seen some sort of chase footage when you see another copter fly right across your tv. Each time I've seen this, I've thought, "how the fukk do these guys keep from running one another over?" well, the inevitable has finally happened. Let's just hope that some responsible protocol develops from this tradgedy. ATC acrobatics comprised of stacking them within a few hundred feet of one another is unacceptable. I would like to see something like police helo only in area below 3000 ft above ground level. If there is no police helo, have police designate a single news copter in that role. Beyond that allow a single news copter with a floor of 3000 ft and no others in the area.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:46 pm

Yep, why do 5 stations have to be in on the same exact shot? Just beam the same freaking shit out to all the local spews outlets from one chopper, each newsghoul gets a turn in the rotation.

Mike Backer · Post by **Mike Backer** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:39 am

Jay, your buddies were paparazzi with helicopter privileges. Had it had been 4 doctors, cops, firefighters, or anybody actually contributing to society, then I'd feel a sense of loss. Not some guys hoping for a dramatic ending so they could say that THEY were there first.

Radio wrote:That being said, I assume you didn't watch TV, on Sept. 11, 2001, live, right? Especially the footage from helicopter crews? Last time I checked, lots of folks are concerned about the border and terrorists.

You've got me. After all, the next time there's a terrorist attack on this country, or a mass shooting at a university campus, fuck the TV news helicopters. In fact, fuck the news, period, right?

And here you are equating a couple of border jumpers (or whatever crime they allegedly committed) to the worst terrorist attack in our country's history. Thanks for proving my sensationalism point for me, Radio.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:03 am

poptart wrote:
Th wrote:Law of physics: Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time

Her eyebrows and her forehead?

the_ouskull

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:05 am

What I find laughable is Bushice deploring the feeding frenzy of the broadcast industry and then copping to an attempt at profiting from it by peddling pics to these people. That's just one step removed from asking your neighbor's wife how she felt about having a gun waved in her face.

Good job kicking your own ass, B.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:34 am

Backer wrote:And here you are equating a couple of border jumpers (or whatever crime they allegedly committed) to the worst terrorist attack in our country's history.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Roach wrote:Sensationalism sells.

In that sense, local TV news is no different than the tabs, for some stories. However, it is a catch-22 for both. They wouldn't be selling it if there wasn't a market for it.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 am

Jay in Phoenix wrote:
I am going to mourn my friends for a very, very long time.

Jay

"I can't see through metal, Kent!"

Sure, Jay, now just think how your average Gaza City resident feels each day for forty-years and counting--except the helicopters are shooting them while the pilots direct air attacks from jets.

Feel just a bit how an Iraqi or Afghani feels, having had his family blown to bits by some American military action.

Look, theses guys are filming for Cops, or some tedious distraction. You've got to....

Wake the fuck up!

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:45 am

Oh FOO/Nick/LTS you are now in this thread with your Palestinian issues, AGAIN? Are you a little gun shy of late and just can't get your fingers to type Israel or Jews? Maybe your main man, the ex-Jew, can be quoted here too, eh? Maybe he'll have another "thought", another "feeling" and you can quote that too.

Is every thread this summer/decade going to include your everyday rants about the poor Palestinians, the infidels, Israel and the scourge you claim them to be? We've got Risa bringing up race in most threads, so I guess you are the designated conspiracy theorist, anti-Jew, anti-USA person for our forum.

You need to get back on your meds, mang.

Rip City

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:46 am

Rooster wrote:What I find laughable is Bushice deploring the feeding frenzy of the broadcast industry

Try depicting. Works better, more in context.

and then copping to an attempt at profiting from it by peddling pics to these people.

Hey. I wouldn't try and sell a whore religion, either. I'd just ask her how much.

To each its own. They will do whatever they do no matter what I do.

That's just one step removed from asking your neighbor's wife how she felt about having a gun waved in her face.

Actually I did ask her a week later. How much you wanna pay for that information?

Good job kicking your own ass, B.

Not quite. Try and focus.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:47 pm

I'm going to make this my last word on this story. As Roach hit some very valid points, I'll address his post specifically.

Roach wrote:Jay, I feel some of your pain. I really do. I worked in broadcast TV in the 80's and 90's and was there when the affiliates first got helicopters. I worked along side talent, pilots, producers and engineers. Some of them died on the job. Bottom line it sucks to have anyone die. Any way.

But you are wearing some pretty heavily tinted rose color glasses:

Not rose tinted glasses. I've already stated that I'm just as cynical and jaded as the next guy. What I am viewing however is a case that was a horrible exception, and not the rule. It doesn't fit within the parameters of the cliche of news vultures circling a kill. Bear with me on this.

The part about Safety is bullcrap. It Is all about which station has the balls to get the best video. Because it sells. When the pilot says "we can fly" it makes the News Director and Sales Manager happy. They live on the edge. We did.

I can't speak to how your station did its' business, only how mine operates. And safety is the number one priority, the story comes second. No bullshit, truth. I understand and accept that this may represent the minority these days. However, Scott Bowerbank was a pilot first and foremost, a journalist second. He literally trained most of the helicopter pilots here in Arizona. He wasn't a practitioner of yellow or tabloid journalism. He was a pilot who also happened to be a reporter. Not the other way around.

The line between news entity and tabloid got blurred long ago. Even back in the 90's. Sales drives programming. You seem a purist jay, but take a real look. Your Sales Manager must have cancelled at least a few expose stories on car dealerships? And what about all those news stories about new store openings. Who are advertisers.

I understand where you're coming from. But as I've mentioned before, television programming is dictated by what viewers respond to, what they watch. Ratings are indeed everything. And sales do indeed drive programming. An advertiser can dictate what is and isn't shown. That is a sad nature of the beast. It works that way across the board. Bear in mind though, Channel 3 prides itself on its' investigative reporting. We have an entire department dedicated to consumer affairs. We have lost advertisers because we didn't pull any punches on a story. Integrity actually means something here.

I said, "These guys were trying to assist in tracking down a criminal with fatal intent."

You replied,

Bull crap. They were trying to get hot video for the night's news show. If it bleeds it leads. Assist in tracking down? My ass. Sensationalism sells.

Not bullcrap. Truth. While it may be another exeception to the rule, news helicopters can indeed assist the police in tracking down a runaway suspect. Bruce Haffner, Channel 3's primary pilot, has won Emmy awards for his work in the field, for examples where while covering another story he happened to be on-scene when a chase broke out. He was there before the cops were. He helped them track people down. Now this isn't what was happening on Friday specifically. But you can bet your ass news helicopters and their personnel help out the police far more often than they get in the way. Smackaholic painted a pictue of "another copter flying right across the tv", as if they were in each others way. I have never, ever heard of this happening. Have there been close calls? Yes. Does it happen all the time? No. I can't recall any instance, any story where two news helicopters collided like this. Not to say it never happened before. I simply cannot cite any examples.

Can you?

That being said, sensationalism does sell. If it bleeds, it does lead. But think about this for a moment. What sort of programming is it that dominates the television these days? If you said "Reality TeeVee", give yourself a cookie. 'Big Brother', 'Real World', 'The Apprentice', 'American Idol', and their ilk all rule the airwaves. Why? Because Pavlov's Viewer demands it. They lap it up in the same gluttonous manner that Mount Rumplewife inhales gravy. Television programmers are simply giving the idiots what they crave. I've said it before, I'll reiterate it now...if you don't like something, don't watch it. Ultimately, what is on television is up to you. Viewers have the power to changes things. Instead of bitching about it, criticizing it, do something about it. Turn the channel, or turn the damn t.v. off.

Get the story, that's right. And for TV news, the story is video. Good video. Better than the other station's video.

Good video and/or audio is the goal. Beating the other guys to the story is the goal. And a disreputable or unprofessional reporter will often do some pretty crappy things to do so. We aren't talking about that here. Not this case. You and everybody else are doing a disservice to the quality news people who are still out there, doing the very best they can, in a manner that isn't rude or intrusive. You can't lump everyone and every station into one ugly basket of dirty laundry. You'll understand this in a moment.

I said, "Rick Krolak, Jim Cox, Scott Bowerbank and Craig Smith were four news veterans with a combined experience of over 60 years. Just four men who were trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Try to consider them, remember them, for their professionalism and their humanity."

You replied,

Rack that and them RIP.

You are upset Jay, for sure. But remember it is just a dirty business all about the dollar.

All business is about the dollar. That's why it's called business. I am upset, but not just because four good men died in a horrible manner, but because the perception of how television news is handled is in so many ways distorted by what we see on fictional shows, or books or movies. And while there might be some dirt in the crevices, or on the sleeves of some, what gets lost along the way is the human element of goodness, of professional tact that alot of stations and journalists still adhere to.

A final note.

About one hour after the crash of the helicopters, Officer George Cortez Jr., a Phoenix policeman, was shot to death while responding to a call from a check cashing store of a forgery in progress. While trying to handcuff nineteen year old piece of shit Edward James Rose, Rose pulled a gun from his clothing and shot Officer Cortez several times. His equally piece of shit girlfriend, Norma Lisa Lopez was heard to squeal about taking the handcuffs as a trophy while the officer lay dying.

The pair were apprehended a short time later.

Over the weekend, from across the city, the state the country, the famililes of Jim Cox, Scott Bowerbank, Rick Krolak and Craig Smith were overwhelmed by gifts of money, food and other items, as were their respective employers. Every single penny and every single item were then forwarded and donated to the family of Officer Cortez by the families and stations of the deceased. This is exactly what they would have done themselves were they still alive.

It's part of what they were, how they were raised and how they lived and worked.

Let that be my final statement.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:29 pm

All business is about the dollar. That's why it's called business. I am upset, but not just because four good men died in a horrible manner, but because the perception of how television news is handled is in so many ways distorted by what we see on fictional shows, or books or movies.

My perception of television news is from the television news, not from movies or TV shows. They aren't satisfied with reporting the story, they have to get the gunshot to the head, the body on the street, the blood running in the gutter.

I think it's important to report the news if they do it responsibly, without unnecessary sensationalism. As I mentioned in the hostage tale above, the local news people would not be satisfied with showing pics of the police doing their jobs protecting local residents from a nutcase, they wanted the violent ending, the bullet in the skull, the gun held to the wifes neck.

That is my perception, and it came from the people who do the evening news. They did it to themselves.

Last night while watching TV and somewhere around 9:15 a blurb for the local news came on and one of the teasers was "crime wave hits local neighborhoods - are group homes being used to harbor criminals? Story at 10" All the while in the background they are showing an image in the background of a tree lined residential street with kids playing in the distance.

Normally, I'd blow this off, but I had to see where the hell they were going with this, so I TIVO'ed the 10 pm news.

The actually story was ONE group home for disadvantaged kids had been found to have a kid in residence there who had been convicted of burning a few houses some years back. THAT WAS IT. There is crime in the city, and the news people were trying to link this lame ass story to that fact.

Talk about your sensationalistic supermarket tabloid headline technique? That is it right there.

Certainly there are some responsible journalists out there, but the evening news around here doesn't employ too many of them.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:26 am

Mister Bushice wrote:They aren't satisfied with reporting the story, they have to get the gunshot to the head, the body on the street, the blood running in the gutter.

Actually, they're more interested in telling the viewer WE'RE HERE, LIVE!

TV news is all about them first, the story, second.

The major ones in Tulsa put their scripts, errrr "stories" online, i.e.:

http://kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=132718

A material witness in a murder trial has become Tulsa’s latest homicide victim. Police say 22-year-old Mark Williams was shot to death inside a home on North Main Monday night. Records show he was supposed to be back in court on Friday as a witness to a recent murder. On Tuesday detectives interviewed a possible witness in this case. But News On 6 crime reporter Lori Fullbright reports authorities working the case say it is too soon to know whether Williams was killed because he was a witness or because of drugs.

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=132716

Tulsa County residents get another chance Tuesday to give their input on the latest river development plan. County Commissioners are holding meetings to gauge public opinion on the plan and tax proposal. Tuesday night’s meeting is at the City Plex towers at 81st and Lewis starting at 7 p.m. The News On 6's Emory Bryan reports County Commissioners will decide Thursday whether to call for an October vote on the issue.

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0707/442102.html

Tulsa - Oklahoma has nearly 90 casinos. It's big business. So, what if you knew how to win big every time? There are some books that promise to hold the secrets the casinos don't want you to know. NewsChannel 8 investigator (:lol:) Cindy Morrison put the supposedly secret methods to the test. Will they lead us all to a rich retirement?

more idiocy

(TULSA, Okla.) July 31 – Tulsa police have arrested and charged two men with the beating death of a Tulsa man last night. One man is still on the loose. A man was also arrested in an unrelated stabbing death last night. And police are also still looking for the gunman who killed a man last night. Police are swamped with these three killings. That's one reason why they need your help to solve these crimes. But that help is sometimes slow coming.
Edith Shoales knows the tragedy and grief involved in senseless acts of crime and violence. Her daughter was gunned down in 1992 while being carjacked. “And that kind of like wrecked my world, for years.”
But she didn't let her daughter's killer intimidate her or scare her. She started a group called “Families for Murdered Children” which lends support and encourages neighbors to turn in criminals. “It ain’t going to go away and in fact it’s gotten worse, so it’s obvious it’s not going to go away.”
Today, FOX23 News found out, people are scared to talk. When we went to the scene where a young man was murdered last night, we were told no one saw anything or they weren't going to be the ones to speak up.

And that's just doing a quick scan.

Granted, it's subtle, but newspapers rarely, if ever, pull that shit, especially for routine crime stories.

Also, for TV it's always about immediacy. They constantly will say "Tonight," or "Right now," when, in many cases, the story hasn't changed for hours, if not days. But hey, if its TONIGHT, or RIGHT NOW, it makes it seem more important than it really is.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:07 am

btw,

RACK Jay.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:15 am

RACK Darwin, once again.

These fucking asshats don't seem to give two fucking shits about flying over my house and making noise, so why the living FUCK would I do anything but celebrate when a few of the dickbags bite it?

Karma's a bitch.

RACK the stupidity that hit paydirt. 4 down, a boatload to go.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:11 am

Dinsdale wrote:RACK the stupidity that hit paydirt. 4 down, a boatload to go.

Too bad it was dudes doing thier jobs and not sickeningly cheerful talking heads. A helicopter crash into a morning local TV news studio, LIVE, is what this country really needs.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:12 am

Two things: First, the helicopters seen flying across the television screen from the camera of another news helicopter's video is simply a matter of a foreshortened perspective via a telephoto lens. It is just that another helicopter flew through the viewing area at a lower altitude. The standard altitude protocol is increments of 500 feet between aircraft operating in the same area.

Second, noise complaints from whiny homeowners who moved into theri home long after a well established flight path has been created in that area is exactly that-- just so much noise. It's like people who bitch about airplane sounds even though they bought a house next to the airport. What's next? Curtailing highway traffic because 18 wheelers roll by your subdivision at 2 in the morning? If you don't want various sounds disturbing your jacking off to porn in the wee hours of the morning, buy some ear plugs or insulate your roof better. Chances are those helos were flying overhead long before you ever decided to move into that neighborhood with the flight path running smack overtop it.

In my little insular world I figure if I have to be up at O-dark:30 saving some dipshit who decided to drive drunk and ran into a tree, all you light sleepers might as well not get any sleep as well. So wakey wakey, Dins! Remind me to pull a little pitch as I fly over your house so the blades pop and knock your china off the cabinet shelves. Then you'll have something to whine about...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:23 am

Apparently, retardation is a requirement for helicopter pilots.

Where to begin?

Since when do newstard pilots have established flight paths?

If they did, there wouldn't be two dead retarded ones in Phoenix right now, eh? They go where the story is. And they couldn't care less who they disturb doing it.

FUCK THEM. They can all die. They don't give a shit about me, and I don't give a shit about them... see how that works?

How the living fuck did you make the leap from non-essentail newstards disturbing the general public to some sort of rescue worker trying to save someone?

Are you really that fucking dumb, or are you trolling?

Chopper news guy is in the same class as the stupid beaner who decided to clean up the parking lot by my house with his Mexican bagpipes at 3:30AM recently. Stupid fucker was lucky I was too drunk to get up.

Newscopter dork should be wary of low-flying bullets if they pull that kind of shit.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:40 am

Apparently an even more severe form of retardation is required to work up the gumption to respond unintelligently about issues concerning flight operations, because in all the professions you claim to have been a superstar at, aviating is not one of them. Since when do ENG pilots have established flight routes? Since... well, let's see... hmmm, always? Standard traffic patterns, noise abatement altitude restrictions, procedural route checkpoints, and the FAA rules concerning flight over congested areas dictate where, when, and how high any pilot can fly over homes, particularly in urban areas. Unless you work nights and sleep during the day, no helicopter pilot will operate in a flight regime that involves a wire environment during periods of darkness. How high is that you might ask? At a minimum of 500 feet, more if there are unlit towers and high tension power lines in the area. The only time I can conceivably see low level flying being done at night is if you are living in a home under an NOE route used by the military, but those are exceedingly rare and most often placed where there are no personal residences within a half mile.

Feel free to step up to me on matters concerning the rotary wing industry, Dins. I might not know very much about Earl Schieb paint jobs, but I'll put your dick in the dirt when it comes to knowledge on helicopters.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:43 am

Rooster wrote: Feel free to step up to me on matters concerning the rotary wing industry

OK. Does shoving a personal fan up your ass make you feel cooler?

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:46 pm

Back in the '80s I lived out in Troutdale, Or. My backyard butted right up next to these large strawberry fields. One spring morning I was awoken to the sound of a helicopter outside my window. Not only was it close, but it sounded like it might be landing. I shot out of bed and looked and saw that this guy was some type of "crop duster," "berry duster."

Back and forth across the acreage, several feet above the ground. All this happening around 0600. Even though we all got woke up in our house we just wrote it off to living in the cusp on suburbia and the country. Nothing like being scared out of bed and your kids find you at the window holding a small teddy bear.

Rip City

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:01 pm

No, Luth, you're lying.

Rooster -- I hear loud helicopters frequently. You can posture all you like, and it doesn't change this. It's unnecessary noise, and it reduces everyone's overall quality of life.

There's plenty of legitimate uses for helicopters... PLENTY. Chinooks and Sky Cranes for logging is a big one around here(buddy's dad flies those, matter of fact... MANLY work, right there).

But some douchehuffer flying around looking for tragedy isn't one of those legitimate uses. Fuck those guys. Now there's some sort of race to put the most of them in the air...as if newsies weren't fucking annoying enough.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:08 pm

Alright, you got me. It was a honey bear, so what.

Rip City

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:55 pm

rooster,

500 ft is not enough, IMHO. Remember, these guys aren't just flying. They are flying and trying to get a good shot. This is a distraction. As I said earlier, there is no need to stack copters so tightly in this situation. One fukking camera in one fukking bird is plenty.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:05 pm

Sorry to hear about your buddies Jay. As soon as I saw what this thread was about, I immediately thought of you since I know what your profession is. (Out of curiosity, was KPHO Ch 5's morning show "Wallace and Ladmo" on when you were around?)

I have experience flying my old Piper Aztec over Sky Harbor as I got vectored to Scottsdale from San Diego Montgomery on IFR routes. Never had air sickness before, but I almost lost my cookies flying that low and the heat and turbulence at 3500' was brutal. I can only imagine how bad it is at 500'.

I got to fly a Jet Ranger once and it was a squirrely aircraft but a blast. I also got to fly a CH 46 once and it was an air pig. Of course that was when the helo pilots let me take the controls when safely airborne. The controls are like opposite of a fixed-wing aircraft.

I saw one of those new Bell 600 NOTAR's crash when I was preflighting my plane. Dude was practicing auto rotations and I saw that brand new DEA aircraft come down fast and he broke the plane in half. Skids were sunk in the soil between runway 28L and 28R.

Weird as a USMC Cobra lost a blade over Montgomery and damn near hit my plane. I got a call from my partner that also owned the plane to go over there to see if we lost ours. I was hoping it would be as we were looking to sell the plane anyway.

Seeing that pic brings a sick feeling to my stomach. Dudes know they are going to die and there's nothing they can do about it, just like those Marines must have felt from what I was told from eyewitnesses.

Bad way to go.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:43 pm

RadioFan wrote: In that sense, local TV news is no different than the tabs, for some stories. However, it is a catch-22 for both. They wouldn't be selling it if there wasn't a market for it.

People will watch anything.

Hell I was flipping channels and saw a robot humping a washing machine on cartoon network.

Hell I guess there is a market for watching news people die considering everyone here has probably watched the few seconds before they crashed and died.

So where the hell is the "watch tabloid, paparazzi, news people die" channel?

Ps. Did one of these mother fuckers use to have a dog fly around with him?

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:58 pm

Jay in Phoenix wrote: They died doing what they loved.

Crashing helicopters, cursing, and shitting themselves?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:17 pm

Apparently, this must be fairly typical retardation in this "industry."

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A TV news helicopter covering a retardant drop on a wildfire near The Dalles violated fire flight regulations, causing two retardant runs to be waved off and delaying the third, final attempt to drop the chemical, an Oregon Department of Forestry official said Tuesday.

Jim Ziobro, state aviation specialist and safety officer for the agency, said the pilot for Portland station KGW had been briefed on the rules shortly before entering the fire zone.

He said a report of Friday's incident was being faxed Tuesday to the Federal Aviation Administration.

Ziobro said helicopter pilots must remain in radio contact and stay at least 500 feet above the highest aircraft.

"He didn't do that," Ziobro said, adding that at times the helicopter was under the plane trying to make the drop.

Firefighters said the tankers were notified of the helicopter's presence by people on the ground. Ziobro said the helicopter pilot did not have the required frequencies needed stay in contact with fire managers.

He said other media aircraft covering the fire caused no problems.

"They followed the rules and they got what they needed," he said.

The KGW pilot, Daron Larsen, was angered by the accusations. Larsen said he was at roughly the same altitude as the aerial firefighters and would have moved higher if he had been told.

He said there was no temporary flight restriction in place when he arrived, and, without one, he has the same right to the airspace as the fire crews.

"I did not break any rules; I want to make that 100 percent clear," said Larsen, who said he has been flying news helicopters for eight years, seven of them in Seattle.

Rod Gramer, KGW's executive news director, said fire officials had called the station with airspace restrictions and frequencies, but the helicopter already was en route home by the time it re-entered radio range. He questioned why fire managers would have called the station if the pilot had been briefed.

"I can guarantee you the pilot is responsible," Gramer said.

Ziobro said civilian aircraft, not just news helicopters, frequently show up over forest fires. He said some pilots don't realize that a loaded tanker is a heavy, lumbering plane that cannot maneuver easily and that the airspace over a retardant drop zone can be crowded with other firefighting aircraft and even smoke jumpers.

"Midair collisions are not forgiving," he said. "Nobody walks away from a midair crash."

The incident near The Dalles was not an isolated one.

Rich Webster an air tactical supervisor who flies ahead of tankers over a wildfire, said he couldn't believe what he saw during a wildfire in southern Oregon's Applegate Valley on July 22.

"Everywhere you looked there were six, seven little hang gliders and ultra lights," he said. "It was like moths attracted to a flame," he told the Medford Mail Tribune newspaper.

He said that retardant drop was delayed until the civilian craft were shooed out of the area. The same thing happened June 10 with a news helicopter at a fire near Gold Hill.

Webster said aircraft 12 nautical miles out from a fire zone must call for clearance. If granted, it must call again at seven miles.

"Someone is going to be drastically hurt if it continues," Phil Hufstader, the Medford air tanker base manager for the Oregon Department of Forestry, told the Mail Tribune.

He said he has about 11 minutes from when a call comes in to get planes in the air, nowhere near enough time to notify all civilian airstrips in the region, and that civilian pilots simply should stay away.

He said there are lots of new pilots. "They are taking 'looky-looks' and getting right square in the middle of the fire. It's causing a real safety problem for us."

So, according to the people who actually deal with the public safety issues, newschopper pilots are quite the socially irresponsible group, who although they talk a mean game, have proven the story is more important than safety, and are an overall menace to society.

RACK Darwin.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:42 pm

Pilots are prone to fucking up. Sometimes it's not their fault especially when flying military jets. The high speeds and little room for error can bite anyone in the ass.

One guy that put things in perspective for me was LCDR Llloyd "Bozo" Able. He was a pilot in the movie "Top Gun" and I heard some crazy ass stories. He was my instructor on my last flight in Pensacola, FL and I was getting jammed by the Chair Force dorks using "guard" frequency when we were on approach. I was getting bent and he let me fuck myself while turning the UHF radio to T/R rather than T/R&G.

A dude that was shot down in Iraq during the 1st war was Michael "Craig" Berryman. His dumb Marine ass got shot down after his 3rd pass over his target he destroyed with his Harrier. He later said he got the fuck beat out of him as a POW over there, but of course we never heard how he was treated by our media.

LCDR Logan A. Allen was my bro and I still to this day don't know what happened when he was in the chute after ejecting out of his F-14D Tomcat over the Atlantic coast. I knew his wife as we all went to Oklahoma together and I can't imagine how Tammy is dealing with it and their 3 boys.

"Bullet Head" was a nog buddy that used to come over to party and one day he did an approach-turn-stall maneuver and killed his black ass.

You hate seeing your buddies die. I don't see the reason why these news crew guys making a buck are the subject of ridicule. Yes, it's a smack board but come on.

The very 1st thing we as pilots do after hearing of someone offing their tard self is to ask each other what they did wrong. You don't want to be THAT guy.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:55 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:I don't see the reason why these news crew guys making a buck are the subject of ridicule. Yes, it's a smack board but come on.

I thought I explained it pretty well.

They don't give a fuck about me, so I'll one up them and not only not give a fuck, but laugh when they Darwin themsleves.

And I posted an article proving they don't give a fuck about anybody else, either, so I'll laugh twice as hard when they die. They don't seem to care if anyone dies as a result of a forest fire, as long as they get their story(in stark contrast to the now PROVEN bullshit Jay posted), so why shouldn't I laugh at their ultimate expense?

They're living by the sword, and I'll get a chuckle when they die by it.

Completely socially irresponsibe "industry." Matter of fact, I'm going to write a letter telling the dickweeds with the helicopter that's endanfgering public safety that they need to sell it, or risk boycott efforts.

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

RACK Darwin.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:57 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:A dude that was shot down in Iraq during the 1st war was Michael "Craig" Berryman. His dumb Marine ass got shot down after his 3rd pass over his target he destroyed with his Harrier.

How the fuck did this guy ever get flight certified?

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:58 pm

Another odd thing happened this spring. Dins will know this area like the back of his hand, too. I'm fishing for steelhead and chinook on the bank at Meldrum Bar. Just a bit downstream from the boat launch there are a couple areas that have small little islands that peek up above the water. All of this is plainly visible from Meldrum bar.

Anyway, over the course of several weeks, we saw this bright yellow helicopter with black trim come screaming down the Willamette and then lowering itself toward the water. I personally saw this happen three or four times. I couldn't actually tell if his skids touched the little islands or not. If he didn't actually touch the ground then he was hoovering less than six feet. Now this river isn't the Amazon, but there is a pretty decent flow of water and people die all the time in it. But his rotor blades were still churning pretty good as though it was just going to be a touch and go. EVERYBODY on the bank fishing was watching this. After a couple of minutes the helicopter rose and followed the river either north or south.

Most of my fellow fisherman discussed the possibilities for why this guy was doing what he did:

Scaring off sea lions eating all the salmon
Rich fisherman scoping out the action
A training helicopter
Dept. of fish and wildlife helicopter
Sky King busted down to whirliebirdies
Osamba bin Fooladen training to attack Oregonians
Rooster on a drunken mission

This width of the Willamette at this area is, oh, maybe a half mile. Maybe a 1/4 mile in parts. The number of people fishing on the bank at that time was about fifty people. Is what he did against any FAA rules or laws? If he was training or practicing, would this be logical when us fishermen were about 50-100 yards away?

Rip City