And yes I know, this board isn't the best place to look!!!
Anyfuck, there's a big debate that's been ongoing on the IU board for a while now about the state of IU hoops under Mike Davis. Two things keep popping up, that I'd like to get some outside perspective/opinions on.
1- If IU were to fire Mike Davis, what type of coaches would be interested in a job such as IU??
2- Would IU still be considered an elite program??
I'll save my thoughts on both until you guys have had time to chime in.
Seeking honest answers
Moderators: the_ouskull, helmet, Shine
Seeking honest answers
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
If they were so inclined, would IU be able to go after, and land, a current D-1 head coach at a major university??Believe the Heupel wrote:1. IU should go with a good assistant coach from a major univerisity.
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
Here are the most prominent names that IU fans talk about:
Tom Crean
Rick Barnes
Mark Few
Paul Hewitt
Skip Prosser
Kelvin Sampson
Also, going to your second answer where you say that IU is a premeir job, why then would they not be able to lure a coach from another (in theory) non-premier job??
Tom Crean
Rick Barnes
Mark Few
Paul Hewitt
Skip Prosser
Kelvin Sampson
Also, going to your second answer where you say that IU is a premeir job, why then would they not be able to lure a coach from another (in theory) non-premier job??
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
1. Indiana should not have to settle for a "good" assistant. They should be able to pull a solid coach froma decent program that has shown he can do the job. i.e. Illinois which is not near the program IU is got Weber. A coach that would look to go there is a coach that is at a decent big conference school but not a Duke, NC, Kansas etc. Indiana should be a the top of many coaches dream jobs.
2. Answered a bit in my reply to question 1 but hell ya they are. They still have so much tradition and the fan support that all it takes it some consistency that a solid coach can bring to get them back up there.
Indian has been hit hard lately but hould still hold enough respect that if they can find the right guy should easily be back in the running as a big program soon.
2. Answered a bit in my reply to question 1 but hell ya they are. They still have so much tradition and the fan support that all it takes it some consistency that a solid coach can bring to get them back up there.
Indian has been hit hard lately but hould still hold enough respect that if they can find the right guy should easily be back in the running as a big program soon.
The fact that you even bring up question #2 means something is very, very wrong. Even though the last banner was hung in '87, Indiana just has too much history going for it. It's kind of like the Cowboys.....all those wins, all those years......and now? Still, the Cowboys are still one of those glamour teams. Ditto w/IU. This is a ripe gig for any good coach. IUnation is sick of this mediocrity b.s. and whoever leads them out of this wilderness will be a God. Perhaps they could do what one shrewd A.D. once did.....ask Bob Knight for a recommendation. Uh......probably not.
It is weird, though, that IU has become "just another basketball team" ....in the sense where they have to go out and find the right coach.
It is weird, though, that IU has become "just another basketball team" ....in the sense where they have to go out and find the right coach.
Last edited by Mustang on Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I think IU is definitely still an elite job....they played for the championship three years ago. I also think they could get a head coach from another D1 school. Gillespie is an interesting possibility as is Crean. I can't believe that Few would leave Gonzaga, that new building they have is nice, and although I doubt he will ever win a title there, he is a perennial top 15-20 team. I don't think Sampson or Barnes would ever leave OU or Texas...which have also started to enter that "elite" level. How about a guy like Skinner at BC? Is he locked in there or would he leave?
But Indiana is most definitely still a top program and would be thought of as such by coaches and fans alike.
But Indiana is most definitely still a top program and would be thought of as such by coaches and fans alike.
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indyfrisco
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indyfrisco
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Re: Seeking honest answers
Seriously...
1- I'm with Frozen here too. I don't see you getting Sampson or Barnes. If Gillespie was into his 3rd or 4th year and still middle of the XII, you could probably get him from A&M. However, would you want him then? Texas has great talent and he SHOULD be able to start getting some of it from the bigger schools if he is good enough.
2- I'm not in the mood to look up the history but was IU considered an elite program before BK? If not, I would think not then. An elite program, in my mind, is one that has flourished through time, not just a period under 1 coach, no matter how long that was. For example, UCLA was not only Wooden and NC not only Smith. In football, the same is true. ND has been successful with many coaches, Alabama, Texas, OU, Nebraska, OSU, UM, etc.
1- I'm with Frozen here too. I don't see you getting Sampson or Barnes. If Gillespie was into his 3rd or 4th year and still middle of the XII, you could probably get him from A&M. However, would you want him then? Texas has great talent and he SHOULD be able to start getting some of it from the bigger schools if he is good enough.
2- I'm not in the mood to look up the history but was IU considered an elite program before BK? If not, I would think not then. An elite program, in my mind, is one that has flourished through time, not just a period under 1 coach, no matter how long that was. For example, UCLA was not only Wooden and NC not only Smith. In football, the same is true. ND has been successful with many coaches, Alabama, Texas, OU, Nebraska, OSU, UM, etc.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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This situation reminds me of ND Football. Yes both are still premier jobs. As for who you can get as a coach, it is what IU is willing to spend and who wants to go there. Assuming the AD and president both want IU to be a great basketball program again, I'm sure you will see IU ante up the money if the right guy is available. I'm sure you could get a guy from a major program, especially if he has ties to IU. Or, a successful assistant may be the way to go.
I agree with BtH. Best bet may be an assistant who views IU as a destination job, ala ND and Weis. The most important thing with the hire is getting the right guy who will be there for the long haul. Don't get someone who will be looking to move to bigger and better things (NBA).
I agree with BtH. Best bet may be an assistant who views IU as a destination job, ala ND and Weis. The most important thing with the hire is getting the right guy who will be there for the long haul. Don't get someone who will be looking to move to bigger and better things (NBA).
Re: Seeking honest answers
Valid points, but IU has two national titles before Knight (1940 and 1953...same coach). And when Knight was here, he had some of the finest teams that ever played, notably the 1974-76 teams who lost ONE game, something that'll never be done again. All that winning, along with the state's rich tradition of basketball (2nd only to the state of North Carolina), makes IU an elite.IndyFrisco wrote:Seriously...
2- I'm not in the mood to look up the history but was IU considered an elite program before BK? If not, I would think not then. An elite program, in my mind, is one that has flourished through time, not just a period under 1 coach, no matter how long that was. For example, UCLA was not only Wooden and NC not only Smith. In football, the same is true. ND has been successful with many coaches, Alabama, Texas, OU, Nebraska, OSU, UM, etc.
There's a MAJOR disconnect in the thinking of some of you guys. On the one hand, you're saying that IU is a premier school and one of the top D1 hoops jobs out there. Then you turn around and say that IU wouldn't be able to pull a good coach away from another school. :?
Putting personal things aside, from a STRICTLY professional standpoint:
Why wouldn't guys like Sampson and Barnes want to leave places where basketball will ALWAYS be second fiddle to football, to go to a place where basketball is king and restoring the program will make them legends??? If Barnes is recruiting so well in Austin, wouldn't he simply be able to transfer that skill with him to Bloomington?? Ditto Few, would you rather be big fish in a little pond or JAWS, because Gonzaga will never be on the same level as an IU. This is of course if your first statement is indeed true, IU is a premier job still.
The added pressure (because there will always be pressure to win at a place like IU) is now gone. The next coach won't be the guy who replaced THE guy. They'll be the guy who replaced the guy who replaced THE guy.
IF- What exactly was UCLA before Sam Gilbert, errr, I mean John Wooden???
Putting personal things aside, from a STRICTLY professional standpoint:
Why wouldn't guys like Sampson and Barnes want to leave places where basketball will ALWAYS be second fiddle to football, to go to a place where basketball is king and restoring the program will make them legends??? If Barnes is recruiting so well in Austin, wouldn't he simply be able to transfer that skill with him to Bloomington?? Ditto Few, would you rather be big fish in a little pond or JAWS, because Gonzaga will never be on the same level as an IU. This is of course if your first statement is indeed true, IU is a premier job still.
The added pressure (because there will always be pressure to win at a place like IU) is now gone. The next coach won't be the guy who replaced THE guy. They'll be the guy who replaced the guy who replaced THE guy.
IF- What exactly was UCLA before Sam Gilbert, errr, I mean John Wooden???
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
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Arch Angel
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If the first part of what you wrote is true, then you're WAY off about what being an elite/premier program means. Sorry, but there is NO way that the IU hoops job isn't a better gig than the UT hoops job. It's as simple as basketball school vs football school.Believe the Heupel wrote: At this particular moment, I don't know that Indiana is a better job than Texas. Texas has such a large built-in recruiting advantage right now it's not even funny-basketball talent in that state has absolutely exploded.
As for the talent in Texas, you CAN get those kids to leave the state. Witness the B10 pulling out Daniel Horton, Deron Williams, and Bracey Wright all in one class by 3 different schools. Barnes could recruit kids wherever he coaches. Couple that with the instate talent Indiana has, plus the MW in general.
I'm not saying you can swoop in and nab anyone, but I think the list of those you can't get is very small. The Self example doesn't apply either, as KU is a step up from Illinois. If anything, it validates my position. Illinois is a good school in a great conference, and Self was recruiting like crazy there (those are his kids ranked #1), but that couldn't compete with one of the top 6 programs ever.
Only reason I said put personal stuff aside is, we really don't know what any of those guys are thinking on that level.
And if a rumor that's swirling around is true, Barnes is the guy.
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
Barnes to Indiana....that would be interesting.....just don't settle for that shithead Alford...the guy is a marginal coach and a real asshole to boot.
I'd be shocked if Barnes left for the reasons Froz mentioned, however I could see him leaving for the reason that IU is basketball first, and there only a few schools like that out there.
Many factors go into whether or not coaches leave their schools, is isn't always about tradition and whether or not one program is more "elite" than another. Look at Bill Snyder and Kirk Ferentz in college football, both have been offered jobs at more "elite" programs, but chose to stay where they were at. The grass is not always greener. It isn't always bad to be the biggest fish in a slightly smaller pond. Anyway, I don't think anybody said OU, Texas and Gonzaga had the history or feel of Indiana, just that their coaches wouldn't leave...it wasn't a slap at IU, just a gut feel on the part of some of the posters here.
Kind of burning the midnight oil tonight, eh Shine? Kid gotcha up?
I'd be shocked if Barnes left for the reasons Froz mentioned, however I could see him leaving for the reason that IU is basketball first, and there only a few schools like that out there.
Many factors go into whether or not coaches leave their schools, is isn't always about tradition and whether or not one program is more "elite" than another. Look at Bill Snyder and Kirk Ferentz in college football, both have been offered jobs at more "elite" programs, but chose to stay where they were at. The grass is not always greener. It isn't always bad to be the biggest fish in a slightly smaller pond. Anyway, I don't think anybody said OU, Texas and Gonzaga had the history or feel of Indiana, just that their coaches wouldn't leave...it wasn't a slap at IU, just a gut feel on the part of some of the posters here.
Kind of burning the midnight oil tonight, eh Shine? Kid gotcha up?
My fear is Alford is the next guy. Shit, I'd just assume to stick with Davis if those are the only 2 options. LOTS of rumors out there about Alford being the guy.Mook wrote:just don't settle for that shithead Alford...the guy is a marginal coach and a real asshole to boot.
As for the Barnes rumor, it has ties to a certain rich and famous IU alum in the state of Texas with a thing or two to do with basketball and a dislike for refs.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying I feel you guys are disrespecting IU's program or anything, I'm just of the opinion you're underestimating the pull IU would have. I fully acknowledge I may be overestimating it. I'm too close to have perspective, as I think there isn't a better cbb gig out there than IU.
"Our staff is going to ensure that anyone who attends this University and wears the Indiana uniform will make this privilege among their highest priorities and not treat the opportunity as an entitlement,'' Crean said in a statement. "We fully expect our student-athletes to accept the responsibilities academically, athletically and socially that come with representing one of the top programs in college basketball history."
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TheJON
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If it took me having to give the Indiana AD a blowjob for them to hire Steve Alford, I'd do it in a heartbeat. And there are thousands of other straight Hawkeye fans that would offer the same thing in exchange for Alford to be gone. Whatever it takes!!
Shine,
If Indiana does hire Steve, I would like to be the first to apologize to you in advance for the brand of basketball you'll be forced to watch. Not only will you be Northwestern's bitch (much like Iowa is right now), but the fans will grow to hate him.
Steve claims to run a Motion Offense. We used to run that offense in high school. And believe me, Steve's offense is NOT a motion offense. Standing around is not motion!
You'll never see decent screens be set to free up the shooters. The team will only play hard against good teams. You'll always underachieve. Every time you start to think that things have changed and Alford has the program headed in the right direction, you'll lose to Penn State and Northwestern in the same week!! One week you'll have sports writers across the country talking about how good your team is, and the next week you'll have those same writers talking about what an embarrassment your team is to the game of basketball!!
We have a joke here in Iowa that is not only funny, but true!
What do Steve Alford and Kirk Ferentz have in common?
Their teams both peak in November!
The sad thing about the joke is the fact that it is very true.
I'd give anything to get Alford out of town. I'm tired of watching poorly coached teams. I'm tired of his lame ass excuses. I'm tired of being Northwesterns bitch! Indiana would only be doing Iowa a favor by hiring him. But if I were the AD at IU, no way in hell would I hire him.
All that said.....he is better than Mike Davis. They both suck, but Alford is still better than Davis.
Shine,
If Indiana does hire Steve, I would like to be the first to apologize to you in advance for the brand of basketball you'll be forced to watch. Not only will you be Northwestern's bitch (much like Iowa is right now), but the fans will grow to hate him.
Steve claims to run a Motion Offense. We used to run that offense in high school. And believe me, Steve's offense is NOT a motion offense. Standing around is not motion!
You'll never see decent screens be set to free up the shooters. The team will only play hard against good teams. You'll always underachieve. Every time you start to think that things have changed and Alford has the program headed in the right direction, you'll lose to Penn State and Northwestern in the same week!! One week you'll have sports writers across the country talking about how good your team is, and the next week you'll have those same writers talking about what an embarrassment your team is to the game of basketball!!
We have a joke here in Iowa that is not only funny, but true!
What do Steve Alford and Kirk Ferentz have in common?
Their teams both peak in November!
The sad thing about the joke is the fact that it is very true.
I'd give anything to get Alford out of town. I'm tired of watching poorly coached teams. I'm tired of his lame ass excuses. I'm tired of being Northwesterns bitch! Indiana would only be doing Iowa a favor by hiring him. But if I were the AD at IU, no way in hell would I hire him.
All that said.....he is better than Mike Davis. They both suck, but Alford is still better than Davis.
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