Who called this one first?

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Risa
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Who called this one first?

Post by Risa »

What to make of this?
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/ne ... 802783.htm

Posted on Mon, Oct. 03, 2005
LOUISIANA


Shots at helicopters shrouded in a `fog'

Reports of gunshots aimed at rescue helicopters in New Orleans on Sept. 1 now appear to have been little more than rumors.

BY MIRIAM HILL AND NICHOLAS SPANGLER

nspangler@herald.com


NEW ORLEANS - Among the rumors that spread as quickly as floodwaters after Hurricane Katrina, reports that gunmen were taking potshots at rescue helicopters stood out for their senselessness.

On Sept. 1, as patients sweltered in hospitals without power and thousands of people remained stranded on rooftops and in attics, crucial rescue efforts were delayed as word of such attacks spread.

But more than a month later, representatives from the Air Force, Coast Guard, Department of Homeland Security and Louisiana Air National Guard say they have yet to confirm a single incident of gunfire at helicopters.

Likewise, members of several rescue crews who were told to halt operations say there is no evidence they were under fire.

To be sure, the streets of New Orleans posed real dangers in the days following Katrina. Many rescue workers said they heard gunfire; one doctor reports that shots came close enough to Charity Hospital that he heard the bullets hit.

RUMORS SWIRLED

But so many rumors were swirling that the facts still haven't been sorted out. A picture is emerging of heroic but harried rescue workers from dozens of organizations forced to make snap decisions with only slender threads of information and no reliable communications.

The storm created so much confusion that government officials cannot even agree on whether they ever issued an order to halt flights or other rescue efforts.

Sometimes the mere rumor that they had was enough.

On the morning of Sept. 1, Mike Sonnier was directing rescue helicopters at his company, Acadian Ambulance, when one of his pilots called to say the military had suspended flights after gunfire was reported in the air near the Louisiana Superdome.

Should he continue rescuing sick evacuees, leaving his pilots and medics at risk - or suspend his company's flights?

Sonnier immediately shut down flights.

''Until I can confirm that this did happen or didn't happen, it's not a chance that I can take,'' he said.

Sonnier said that when he checked with the National Guard about two hours later, he was told it was OK to fly. At that point Acadian resumed operations. Even today, it's not clear whether a military order to stop flying was ever actually made.

Reports persisted throughout the day of helicopters in the cross hairs, part of the image of a city under siege that was spreading across the nation.

''Hospitals are trying to evacuate,'' a Coast Guard spokeswoman at the city emergency operations center told The Associated Press. ``At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in, people are shooting at them.''

INITIAL REPORT

But that initial report proved hard to confirm. Two Coast Guard spokesmen who were asked in recent days about helicopter shootings said there were no incidents of any Coast Guard personnel or vehicles taking fire.

''We don't know of any shots ever fired directly at us,'' said Capt. Bob Mueller, commander of the Guard's New Orleans station. ``But there were a number of reports of shots fired in the air. There were two occasions where all helos were directed to land. I believe those orders came from the Superdome. Our flatboats did stand down Sept. 1.''

Lt. Pete Schneider, a spokesman for the National Guard, which was handling Superdome evacuations, said it was a civilian who told guardsmen in the area that shots had been fired. Schneider said flights continued despite the danger.

MIXED MESSAGES

But a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Federal Emergency Management Agency, contradicted that statement, saying Superdome flights were temporarily suspended because of gunfire.

The confusion affected more than just helicopter crews. Florida Task Force 1 was using boats to reach the stranded but not on Sept. 1.

RESCUES HINDERED

Because of reports of gunfire, a FEMA support team ordered the Florida task force to stop work for the entire day unless law enforcement protection could be found, task force leader Dave Downey said.

That help never came. Meanwhile, thousands of people were stuck in attics and on roofs of flooded houses in New Orleans.

''We had just had a very successful day before,'' when they rescued 400 people, said Downey, whose crew manned boats. ``It definitely slowed down our rescue efforts . . .

''In a rescue scenario, every hour that slips by makes the situation more complicated, and the chance for survival diminishes,'' he said.

FEMA sent mixed messages in recent days on whether rescue efforts were placed on hold.

''If, on the ground, if they were in middle of a search and they were being shot at, for safety reasons, they may have temporarily put that search on hold,'' said Deborah Wing, a FEMA spokeswoman in Washington.

Later, she said by e-mail that no operations were ever suspended, despite ``reports of gunfire.''

Some who were in New Orleans that day described moments of real peril. Tyler Curiel, a cancer doctor at Tulane University Hospital, said a sniper shot at him and his military escorts in the street as they evacuated patients from Tulane and Charity hospitals.

Curiel said the gunman was in a nearby parking deck shooting at Charity's emergency room about noon Sept. 1.

One month later, Downey, of Florida Task Force 1, isn't sure the decision to halt operations was the right one.

'You've heard of the `fog of war.' Well, in the fog of disaster response, sometimes information is sketchy, and you have to act on the information you have available at that time.''

was it Cobra? who said something about it wouldn't be possible for them to hear the shots?

will the stories of blacks assaulting white foreigners get the 'rumor' treatment, too?

a free republicer is of the opinion that someone may have deliberately spread rumors in order to stop rescue efforts..... but that same person thinks it was liberals doing so in order to make the administration look bad.

frankly, i don't know. we've got some legitimate stories on the one hand, regarding shootings (the cop who was killed by one looter trying to stop another looter, the rescue effort hampered by a jealous man) -- maybe. on the other, we have shots being taken at rescue copters that may have never been true.


so what really gave in New Orleans?
on a short leash, apparently.
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Nishlord
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Post by Nishlord »

I heard it was all co-ordinated by Isaac Hayes in a big fuck-off Cadillac with chandeliers on the front.
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Tom In VA
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Re: Who called this one first?

Post by Tom In VA »

Risa wrote: so what really gave in New Orleans?
The levy system, the local government, the state government, and the federal government. In that order.
With all the horseshit around here, you'd think there'd be a pony somewhere.
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Post by smackaholic »

Nishlord wrote:I heard it was all co-ordinated by Isaac Hayes in a big fuck-off Cadillac with chandeliers on the front.
Rack!!!

Or, ofcourse, it could have been.......[pause for dramatic effect]

































the JOOOOOOOOOOs.
mvscal wrote:The only precious metals in a SHTF scenario are lead and brass.
BSmack
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Re: Who called this one first?

Post by BSmack »

Tom In VA wrote:
Risa wrote: so what really gave in New Orleans?
The levy system, the local government, the state government, and the federal government. In that order.
Yea, blame the feds last.

Image

Uh, maybe not.
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PSUFAN
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Post by PSUFAN »

Now that this is settling into politics, to the Spin Zone it goes.
King Crimson wrote:anytime you have a smoke tunnel and it's not Judas Priest in the mid 80's....watch out.
mvscal wrote:France totally kicks ass.
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Post by BSmack »

PSUFAN wrote:Now that this is settling into politics, to the Spin Zone it goes.
Yea, you never see people talking politics on Main Street.
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PSUFAN
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Post by PSUFAN »

I don't want to read another Katrina thread, where the only impetus for posts is to snipe along political lines.

Beyond my preference, though...clearly this has become a political debate, so let it get the run it deserves in the political forum.
King Crimson wrote:anytime you have a smoke tunnel and it's not Judas Priest in the mid 80's....watch out.
mvscal wrote:France totally kicks ass.
BSmack
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Post by BSmack »

Maybe if I post a stupid pic this would be worthy of Main Street?

Image
Risa
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Re: Who called this one first?

Post by Risa »

mvscal wrote:
BSmack wrote:Yea, blame the feds last.
Well since you have conceded the fact that the state and local governments are completely worthless and have no function or responsibilities, Bush should simply disolve the State of Louisiana and appoint General Honore to be Military Proconsul of the Federal Prefecture of Louisiana.

What do you say?
That's the plan all along? :?
on a short leash, apparently.
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Post by BSmack »

I wonder what David Drier has to say about this nomination?
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Post by Variable »

BSmack wrote:I wonder what David Drier has to say about this nomination?
Will it result in amnesty for illegals? If so, I'm down.

Sin,
D. Dreier

Did I mention that he's my congressman? Ugh.
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