How's Winter?

[Left Seater]

The Green New Deal for one. Including 101 liberal Dem Reps who signed on to co-sponsor the resolution.

President Executive Order wants 100% carbon free energy production by 2035.

And yes CA is more reliable at the moment. Props. Get back to us this summer when demand peaks or next fall when you shut down the grid for high winds and wildfires.

[BSmack]

1 degree in Dallas this morning.

I'll bet the local plumbers are happy. They'll have frozen pipe work for weeks. Houses there are just not designed for that shit.

That's colder than Rochester. North Texas has had enough storms unbarren their hatches that you think they would have bought some plows by now. Insulation also helps keep cold in during the summer, so maybe invest in some? And while you're doing so wrap some around your pipes.

[BSmack]

Record cold with ice before the snow leads to plenty of issues. Transmission lines are down in a number of places then add in the green energy issues and it is making for a sad situation for many. Approx 25% of the Texas generation comes from wind power. That is all well and good except when the weather turns icy. The turbines apparently can't handle ice or snow. More than 60% of the wind power is down and will remain down for days.

Then add on top of that the additional cold across the country and natural gas prices are going crazy.

Further many of the water systems have had issues keeping their pumps from freezing.

There is a way of treating a wind turbine says it will spin in cold weather.

Sincerely Western New York wind turbines

[Left Seater]

1 degree in Dallas this morning.

I'll bet the local plumbers are happy. They'll have frozen pipe work for weeks. Houses there are just not designed for that shit.

That's colder than Rochester. North Texas has had enough storms unbarren their hatches that you think they would have bought some plows by now. Insulation also helps keep cold in during the summer, so maybe invest in some? And while you're doing so wrap some around your pipes.

They do have a few plows. But news flash, plows don’t really help with ice.

We also know of insulation. We use a ton of it as you said for summer temps. The bigger issues are pipes in the ground. They generally are not buried so deep as to avoid freezing in the ground when temps are at or near zero. Further much of the state is rocky subsurface. The cost to bury pipes below an extended zero degree freeze line would require excavation of mucho rock. It is the same reason we don’t have basements in most of the state.

As for the windmills it isn’t the cold, it is the ice. And yes you can de-ice many things, but that is both crazy expensive and must be done repeatedly.

[Mikey]

Did a nice job of getting me to a place where the weather didn’t suck, in about 2.5 hrs.

And while a commercial jet engine doesn’t run on LNG or LP, it does work the exact same way. If either had the same energy density as JP5 or whatever it is they use these days, I’m sure those planes would have that type.

Gas turbines for power generation and aircraft turbojet engines, while similar, have a lot of differences.

Fuel for gas turbines is natural gas, fuel for turbojet is liquid JP5 or kerosene.

Turbojet engines produce a thrust from the exhaust, which drives your airplane. Gas turbine for generators produce torque to turn the shaft on a generator. Also these days it's usually a combined cycle system where heat is recovered from the exhaust to drive a secondary steam turbine, increasing the overall efficiency to 60+%.

[Left Seater]

Good summary. I would also add the jet engines use bleed air to prevent icing. The bleed air is under high pressure and usually over 200 degrees C. This easily prevents any ice issues even above 50K feet.

[Bill in Houston]

Houston is a mess

Homeless, elderly, poor in general are suffering (as always). Finding secure and warm housing for those in need has been the hardest I’ve worked in years (teed it up for you bitches).

Looks like a break in weather the next couple of days. Freezing overnight will continue some of the water issues.

Covid restrictions have made this a shit show. Too few places to go in an emergency. People dying of CO poisoning. Burning charcoal in apartments. Sleeping in cars to keep warm. Lack of water makes too many places unlivable, especially with young children.

[Mikey]

That sucks Bill. I heard that they've issued boil water orders?

How you supposed to boil water with no gas and no electricity?

I guess you just go ahead and eat the snow as long as it's not yellow?

[Left Seater]

God speed.

It is quite sad we still see people dying from CO2 exposure in 2021.

[Kierland]

Yes your side. You slurp and regurgitate damn near everything the liberal Dems throw up.

And yes the green new deal is multiple things and pieces that don’t have to be passed at once. However the call for 100% green energy was given a date of 2030 for implementation. No date was included for income for those unwilling to work.

Good to see you backpedaling from the liberal Democrats or your side. It is never too late to turn away from them.

Says the guys STILL sucking orange dick.

[Kierland]

God speed.

It is quite sad we still see people dying from CO2 exposure in 2021.

Red states are full of idiots like you.

[smackaholic]

Did a nice job of getting me to a place where the weather didn’t suck, in about 2.5 hrs.

And while a commercial jet engine doesn’t run on LNG or LP, it does work the exact same way. If either had the same energy density as JP5 or whatever it is they use these days, I’m sure those planes would have that type.

Gas turbines for power generation and aircraft turbojet engines, while similar, have a lot of differences.

Fuel for gas turbines is natural gas, fuel for turbojet is liquid JP5 or kerosene.

Turbojet engines produce a thrust from the exhaust, which drives your airplane. Gas turbine for generators produce torque to turn the shaft on a generator. Also these days it's usually a combined cycle system where heat is recovered from the exhaust to drive a secondary steam turbine, increasing the overall efficiency to 60+%.

I'll defer to LS, as this is his area, but I am fairly sure that turbojet engines in commercial aircraft are pretty much extinct by now. All the new stuff is turbofan, which actually does use engine torque to spin a turbine fan. The newest, really big ones on the twin engine wide bodies are way more fan than turbo.

Anyhoo, my main point is that getting them to run in even the worst conditions isn't really much of a technical challenge. Obviously, this historic cold snap has exposed problems and they'll be dealt with, easily and cheaply. The same can be done with those big pinwheels, but it is more of a challenge.

[Kierland]

Fuck off you orange and red nazi. The turbine work fine in all kinds of cold places, just not stupid red places like tx.
Is there any lie you will not believe?

[Diego in Seattle]

1 degree in Dallas this morning.

I'll bet the local plumbers are happy. They'll have frozen pipe work for weeks. Houses there are just not designed for that shit.

That's colder than Rochester. North Texas has had enough storms unbarren their hatches that you think they would have bought some plows by now. Insulation also helps keep cold in during the summer, so maybe invest in some? And while you're doing so wrap some around your pipes.

They do have a few plows. But news flash, plows don’t really help with ice.

They don't?

As for the windmills it isn’t the cold, it is the ice. And yes you can de-ice many things, but that is both crazy expensive and must be done repeatedly.

In other words your state doesn't want to make it a priority. Got it.

[Kierland]

The fat Nazi will make any excuse for his red butt buddies because he is a disgusting POS.

[smackaholic]

My side? You don't know what side I'm on. I've never argued for 100% wind and solar in less than a decade. Probably unrealistic but you need to set ambitious goals to accomplish anything. AOC doesn't speak for me. The Green New Deal isn't a formal proposal to be implemented all at once, as "your side" would like everybody to believe, but a menu of measures that can be taken one at a time in a common sense effort to stem climate change, which "your side" doesn't even acknowledge, as well as the increasing damage we are doing through other effects of belching out tons of carbon and other pollutants.

People on the right acknowledge that the planet is warming. We also acknowledge that the warming started many thousands of years ago. We'll even go so far as to say that we are responsible for doubling the CO2 levels. Of course doubling means going from almost nothing, to 2X almost nothing or .04%. We also acknowledge that the rise in CO2 makes things we need to exist grow better. Satellite data shows a significant greening of the planet during the half century or so we've been chucking them up there.

Is the greening everywhere?

Of course not.

You just so happen to live in a desert. As we warm, it just might get a bit more deserty. Other places such as pretty much the rest of North America and Eurasia, a fair chunk of acreage, will become better at growing stuff.

Should we figure out new ways to generate power?

Of course.

The last century showed that we are pretty fukking good at figuring out new ways to do shit. No one from 1921 could imagine today's world. And most of that innovation was market driven. I'm not saying there's no place for government seed money to develop technologies. There is. But when government gets to the point where it says "thou shalt be X% 'green'" by Y date, it has overstepped its roll.

As for specific types of green energy, I think covering your roof or even your MST prolly makes sense. I'm even OK with maybe helping you pay for it (you're welcome, you ungrateful, fat fukk).

But when I see shit like the 20-30 acres or whatever it was of forest that just got plowed behind my bro-in-law's house to put in a few watts of PV, I gotta question how much it is helping in the battle to banish CO2 from the air.

Why wasn't it put on top of the mall 5 miles away? Or better yet, the parking lot, where it serves the added benefit of providing shade to cars?

I'll tell you why. It was done this way, because there was a pot of gubmint money that enabled it.

As for the bird killers, I still question the sense of building them. They use enormous amounts of resources to build and maintain. Maybe they do make sense in W Teeehas or other parts of the high plains. But if anyone thinks they are so epcot that we don't need a backup, well, have a look.

Sure would be nice to have a base load coal plant or two right about now. Maybe we need to think hard about shuttering them. Even if we just keep them in standby mode most of the time. Nice thing about coal is that unlike some fuels, it's pretty fukking stable. A bin full of coal that sits for years is going to be quite useable. Such a plant can be brought up to full steam in less than a day. We typically see these shit weather events coming a few days ahead of time.

[Left Seater]

They don't?

Thanks for the photo that kicks your own ass. If the plow got rid of all the ice, there would be no need for the spreader on the back throwing out salt or other aggregate to help melt the ice and increase traction.

Plows may remove some ice, but not all of it.

In other words your state doesn't want to make it a priority. Got it.

Hmmmm, why don't most Seattle or WA homes have a/c? Oh right your residents don't want to make it a priority. Got it.


Keep kicking your own ass, you are doing a fantastic job.

[Mikey]

[

Hmmmm, why don't most Seattle or WA homes have a/c? Oh right your residents don't want to make it a priority. Got it.

Installing air conditioning is not a government function. Keeping the roads clear and passable is. At least in most places.

Carry on.

[Left Seater]

Apples and computer monitors.

But you know that.

[Diego in Seattle]

They don't?

Thanks for the photo that kicks your own ass. If the plow got rid of all the ice, there would be no need for the spreader on the back throwing out salt or other aggregate to help melt the ice and increase traction.

Plows may remove some ice, but not all of it.

Move goalposts much?

But news flash, plows don’t really help with ice.

And the deployment of deicer & sand/salt really does help. I know from experience.

[Left Seater]

No one moved the goal posts. You posted a picture that kicked your own ass. Of course you want to try to save face, but your foot is already planted in your ass.

[Mikey]

Apples and computer monitors.

But you know that.

You're the one who made the comparison.

But you know that.

[Left Seater]

Nice of you to fight DiS' battles for him. Hell, he needs all the help he can get.

[Bill in Houston]

My side? You don't know what side I'm on. I've never argued for 100% wind and solar in less than a decade. Probably unrealistic but you need to set ambitious goals to accomplish anything. AOC doesn't speak for me. The Green New Deal isn't a formal proposal to be implemented all at once, as "your side" would like everybody to believe, but a menu of measures that can be taken one at a time in a common sense effort to stem climate change, which "your side" doesn't even acknowledge, as well as the increasing damage we are doing through other effects of belching out tons of carbon and other pollutants.

People on the right acknowledge that the planet is warming. We also acknowledge that the warming started many thousands of years ago. We'll even go so far as to say that we are responsible for doubling the CO2 levels. Of course doubling means going from almost nothing, to 2X almost nothing or .04%. We also acknowledge that the rise in CO2 makes things we need to exist grow better. Satellite data shows a significant greening of the planet during the half century or so we've been chucking them up there.

Is the greening everywhere?

Of course not.

You just so happen to live in a desert. As we warm, it just might get a bit more deserty. Other places such as pretty much the rest of North America and Eurasia, a fair chunk of acreage, will become better at growing stuff.

Should we figure out new ways to generate power?

Of course.

The last century showed that we are pretty fukking good at figuring out new ways to do shit. No one from 1921 could imagine today's world. And most of that innovation was market driven. I'm not saying there's no place for government seed money to develop technologies. There is. But when government gets to the point where it says "thou shalt be X% 'green'" by Y date, it has overstepped its roll.

As for specific types of green energy, I think covering your roof or even your MST prolly makes sense. I'm even OK with maybe helping you pay for it (you're welcome, you ungrateful, fat fukk).

But when I see shit like the 20-30 acres or whatever it was of forest that just got plowed behind my bro-in-law's house to put in a few watts of PV, I gotta question how much it is helping in the battle to banish CO2 from the air.

Why wasn't it put on top of the mall 5 miles away? Or better yet, the parking lot, where it serves the added benefit of providing shade to cars?

I'll tell you why. It was done this way, because there was a pot of gubmint money that enabled it.

As for the bird killers, I still question the sense of building them. They use enormous amounts of resources to build and maintain. Maybe they do make sense in W Teeehas or other parts of the high plains. But if anyone thinks they are so epcot that we don't need a backup, well, have a look.

Sure would be nice to have a base load coal plant or two right about now. Maybe we need to think hard about shuttering them. Even if we just keep them in standby mode most of the time. Nice thing about coal is that unlike some fuels, it's pretty fukking stable. A bin full of coal that sits for years is going to be quite useable. Such a plant can be brought up to full steam in less than a day. We typically see these shit weather events coming a few days ahead of time.

Market inspired innovation “worked” in the last century in part because producers did not have to bear all of the economic cost. If producers had born the clean up costs they should have been responsible for, instead of throwing it onto the public, the incentive to move to alts would have occurred long ago.

[Diego in Seattle]

Nice of you to fight DiS' battles for him. Hell, he needs all the help he can get.

He's not fighting my battles for me.

You're just providing enough stupidity that it can't be contained by just one person.

[Left Seater]

Keep kicking your own ass. Your double down is impressive.

[Left Seater]

Many other issues are starting to get airplay due to the all-time record cold.

Turtles have been cold-shocked and approx 5,000 of them have been collected and are slowly being warmed up.

Large numbers of fish in both lakes and the shallow bays of the Texas Coast have been killed due to the extreme and prolonged cold. Due to the shallow depth of most of the bays, the fish can't go to deeper water to escape the cold. Many of the bays don't get deeper than 6' in most places.

Drug users are not able to score their hits and are experiencing cold turkey withdrawals. Our good friend is a neo-natal nurse who works only with preemies. At least she did before this week. Twice this week they have taken nurses from all departments in the hospital to deal with the forced withdrawals that are reaching record levels.

Livestock is dying as they don't grow coats that will allow them to withstand sub zero temperatures for multiple days at a time.

[Mikey]

Many other issues are starting to get airplay due to the all-time record cold.

Turtles have been cold-shocked and approx 5,000 of them have been collected and are slowly being warmed up.

Large numbers of fish in both lakes and the shallow bays of the Texas Coast have been killed due to the extreme and prolonged cold. Due to the shallow depth of most of the bays, the fish can't go to deeper water to escape the cold. Many of the bays don't get deeper than 6' in most places.

Drug users are not able to score their hits and are experiencing cold turkey withdrawals. Our good friend is a neo-natal nurse who works only with preemies. At least she did before this week. Twice this week they have taken nurses from all departments in the hospital to deal with the forced withdrawals that are reaching record levels.

Livestock is dying as they don't grow coats that will allow them to withstand sub zero temperatures for multiple days at a time.

Very fucked up, and on top of the 'rona as well. Almost biblical, if you believe in that kind of stuff. You think maybe God and gOd is pissed off at somebody?



Something about this seems oddly appropriate...

Drug users are not able to score their hits and are experiencing cold turkey withdrawals.

[Left Seater]

I wouldn’t have even thought about that, but yeah oddly appropriate is a good way to put it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go ... d=75971557

[FiatLux]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

[Mikey]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Were there any power failures?

[smackaholic]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

The google says 7 degrees, december '89.

[smackaholic]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Were there any power failures?

I'm sure they had the usual issues with water lines freezing. If it was a dry cold, with no ice damage, the grid probably faired it pretty well. No frozen pinwheels dropping the ball to stress all the other sources.

[Mikey]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Were there any power failures?

I'm sure they had the usual issues with water lines freezing. If it was a dry cold, with no ice damage, the grid probably faired it pretty well. No frozen pinwheels dropping the ball to stress all the other sources.

So, you were there?

[FiatLux]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Were there any power failures?

No. But cold as hell. Feel bad for the Houstonians. Good peeps.

[Kierland]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Were there any power failures?

No frozen pinwheels dropping the ball to stress all the other sources.

You will believe any lie. Fuck off echo chamber traitor.

[Kierland]

Oh and 43 and raining in Savannah.

[Mikey]

I was in Houston around 1989-90 -91 not sure the year. It was 3 degrees and -25 wind chill around 8pm at night. Coldest I've ever been. Fucking "Blue Northers".

Without offending anybody’s delicate Texas identity by being overly critical of how they deal with shit, the recent clusterfuck is not at all unprecedented. Similar situation, though maybe not as extreme, happened in 2011. Consequently warned after that to winterize their wind and gas resources they did nothing. But...it's their choice and we shouldn't be too critical.

The Rolling Chain of Events Behind Texas Blackouts
What happened yesterday to cause the rolling power blackouts across Texas? A chain reaction of problems involving the state's coal and gas appeared to be the cause — and wind plants were having trouble, too.

https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/03 ... blackouts/

...

Is the problem solved? "We think we're probably going to be okay today, and obviously it's going to warm up from there," said Fraser.

In the next couple of weeks, after the crisis passes, Fraser said he would call a hearing on the blackouts to figure out what happened and how to fix it. He noted that there were "a lot of unusual circumstances" to this storm, and that while Texas was well-prepared for spiking electricity usage in the summer, "to my knowledge we've never been tested for an event during the winter." But it's clearly imperative to fix the system, he said. The Public Utility Commission, which oversees ERCOT, met this morning and is also investigating the cause of the power-plant problems, spokesman Terry Hadley said.

Dateline for this article:
FEB. 3, 2011

[Left Seater]

From Mikey’s article, one of the reasons the coal plants failed was due to new emission controls and their cold weather ability.

Then when gas plants were needed some had supply issues because gas supplies were strained and being diverted to residential users.

All of these are things ERCOT and the State must investigate.

There is a huge question that remains unanswered. As Liberal Democrats insist that we move to 100% clean energy power generation by 2030 or 2035, what will we do when the wind and solar go offline due to severe weather?

[Mikey]

You don't follow along too well do you? Wind turbines can be made operational in cold weather but it takes a little more $$ to enable this. So, I guess it's out of the question.

And of course we should do away with all emission control technology (which also can operate in cold weather if you want them to), because what good are they anyway?