Drivers

[indyfrisco]

Ok, I haven’t bought a new driver in 5 years. I’m not up for looking in every magazine and doing all the research.

What’s the latest and greatest by Titlest, Taylor Made, Callaway or Nike? Any other Brands I need to take a close look at? I am mostly looking for forgiveness. I hit the hell out of the ball (about 290 avg.), but I play mostly in tight fairways so I need control more than anything.

[BSmack]

What are you playing now?

Are you happy with what you're playing now?

Why do you want a new stick?

[Dinsdale]

First off, there's people in this forum who know way more about the finer points of equipment than I do, so take it for what it's worth --

Most of the super-juiced drivers are geared towards throwing up big numbers that you can brag to your friends about, rather than forgiveness.

After my clubs got ripped off, I re-aquired an old driver of mine, something called a Devastator. I think it retails for about $40, or thereabouts. It was actually given to me years ago, so I'm not sure, but it's around there. And I'll tell you what -- I'm a long-armed lanky fuck with no self-restraint, and as such, I swing for the green every time(nice course management, douchebag). And that old steel head/titanium face driver doesn't quite put the same spank as a higher quality driver, but if I hit it with the face squared, as long as I get some part of the clubface, it goes straight and a moderate distance down the middle.

I think the newer supersized drivers are more forgiving(if you can't put 460 cc's on the ball, you might need a new hobby), but hopefully these guys can offer suggestions on particular models that sacrifice a little distance for added forgiveness.

I guess my point is an age-old one, and a wise one at that -- it ain't the club, it's how you swing it.

Don't tell my golfing buds I said that, though, since every bad shot I've ever hit was due to some faulty equipment.

[Dinsdale]

What are you playing now?

Are you happy with what you're playing now?

Why do you want a new stick?

Oh. I thought ALL drivers got replaced for the same reason -- you shanked one, and threw it in the lake.

[BSmack]

First off, there's people in this forum who know way more about the finer points of equipment than I do, so take it for what it's worth --

Most of the super-juiced drivers are geared towards throwing up big numbers that you can brag to your friends about, rather than forgiveness.

After my clubs got ripped off, I re-aquired an old driver of mine, something called a Devastator. I think it retails for about $40, or thereabouts. It was actually given to me years ago, so I'm not sure, but it's around there. And I'll tell you what -- I'm a long-armed lanky fuck with no self-restraint, and as such, I swing for the green every time(nice course management, douchebag). And that old steel head/titanium face driver doesn't quite put the same spank as a higher quality driver, but if I hit it with the face squared, as long as I get some part of the clubface, it goes straight and a moderate distance down the middle.

I think the newer supersized drivers are more forgiving(if you can't put 460 cc's on the ball, you might need a new hobby), but hopefully these guys can offer suggestions on particular models that sacrifice a little distance for added forgiveness.

I guess my point is an age-old one, and a wise one at that -- it ain't the club, it's how you swing it.

Don't tell my golfing buds I said that, though, since every bad shot I've ever hit was due to some faulty equipment.

Ask any pro what the mid to high handcapper should do to gain more forgiveness with the driver and the answer is almost invariably the same.

HIT YOUR 3 WOOD.

But what kind of fun is hitting a 3 wood when you can drop 5 bills on a brand new dual beta titanium/adjustable screw/460cc/hot faced launcher that is endorsed by a multimillionare with more game on his worst day than we would have after a 12 week golf boot camp?

[fix]

Do yourself a favour, go in to a pro shop and have them measure your swing speed and then have whatever you buy fitted with the proper shaft for you.

If you want to go with a popular name brand, check out the Taylormade R5.
The R7's sweet as well but the R5 is proven to be more forgiving.

If you can try one somewhere, have a look at
the new Tour edge Houdini 16 degree driver
It is supposed to be one forgiving driver.
It is a 420cc, slightly offset, with a reg flexTour edge graphite shaft. Pretty much a high trajectory and fairly long relatively speaking.
Ping and Callaway have similar new drivers with 15.5 degree but they're going to cost you about twice as much.

Whatever you do decide on buying though.. don't leave the store without having it fitted.

[Dinsdale]

Some of the other companies have a different name for a 16 degree driver -- they call it a "3 wood." With a big head.

Don't know about where you are, but around here, some of the big name courses have manufacturer rep days, where they line up guys from every major manufacturer, and they pretty much bring out an example of all of their new stuff for you to play with on the range. Of course, 10 different reps will have ten different suggestions, but you like what you like, you know?

I would gues they have similar deals where you are, assuming it's near a major metro area. From your nic, I would guess you're in/around Indy. I would guess they would try to push sticks in an area that large. Then again, the course I go do that at is the closest one to Nike, and they kind of use the proshop there as something of a research center, which I'm sure causes the reps from the other companies to not let Swooshie run away with the local market.

It seems like whenever I play that course(Redtail, formerly Progress.....sup Peter Jacobsen), which is rarely, even though one of my bestest golf buds lives literally next door....that there's a disproportionate number of dudes carrying Nikes.

OK, since I've now completely forgotten the point of this post, I'll stop. I think it originally had something to do with a 15 degree-er being a 3-wood, regardless of the size of the head(sup ElvisMonster).

Maybe 3Putt should ban me.

[Qbert]

What are you playing now?

Are you happy with what you're playing now?

Why do you want a new stick?

i'll expound on this INDY...'cuz ts important.

with WHAT you Have...is your BAD Shot a Fade or Slice?...or a HOOK?

~what Loft is it

~what shaft is in it

~what is the Trajectory of your ballflight....High or Low.

~African or European?

can't give a recommendation 'til the facts are known.

~i drink all of the time...and fit Golf Clubs as a Hobby.

~Sin

Me

[Cueball]

What are you playing now?

Are you happy with what you're playing now?

Why do you want a new stick?

i'll expound on this INDY...'cuz ts important.

with WHAT you Have...is your BAD Shot a Fade or Slice?...or a HOOK?

~what Loft is it

~what shaft is in it

~what is the Trajectory of your ballflight....High or Low.

~African or European?

can't give a recommendation 'til the facts are known.

~i drink all of the time...and fit Golf Clubs as a Hobby.

~Sin

Me

What?

[King Crimson]

i've got two loaners from the old man working: an Orlimar hipTI and a Cobra SS 350. they are both a couple years old. the Cobra is a badass, but i can't hit it straight so i'm hitting O--the Cobra fairway woods are very very nice clubs.

[Rushville]

I'll second what Dinsdale said about the manufacturer rep days, or as they're called in Indiana, "Demo Days." The best way to find out what club is good for you is to hit it.

My suggestions for what to look for to gain control would be...

- steel shaft - typically more controllable than graphite.
- smooth face - grooves help create spin, spin helps move the ball left or right. The less grooves the better.

[Felix]

I recently switched from a Cobra SS460 9" loft to a Titleist 983K.

I hit the Titleist farther, but the Cobra is much more forgiving.

I'm with Rush on this, go to one of the demo days and try a bunch of different drivers and find the one that suits you best.

[indyfrisco]

What are you playing now?

I play with a fitted set called Millenium. I took a phone spam call and they sent me a set of clubs, irons and woods, specially fit for my height and everything. Well, I hit the irons well for awhile but just got sick of them. Went to Titlest 822OS last year and my iron game ia a TON better now. I shoot around 85-90 and hit the high 70s from time to time.

Are you happy with what you're playing now?

I'm not happy with what I'm playing with now. I hit it really well about a third of the time. A third of the time I can live with the shot and the other third is an abortion.

Why do you want a new stick?

I want a new stick because I play with many other golfers that have the newer technology clubs. I have played with them before they had these new sticks and have seen the improvement in their tee shots. I have tried swinging their clubs and can't hit the ball for shit. However, I usually swing harder than them. I don't try to kill the ball unless I have wide open fairways with no real trouble left or right.

i'll expound on this INDY...'cuz ts important.

with WHAT you Have...is your BAD Shot a Fade or Slice?...or a HOOK?

I have a draw, but when I let my right elbow go, I can hear the fucker quack off the face of the club. Of course, I have the occasional push+fade that is just horrifying. But, 90% of the time I have the draw.

~what Loft is it

I use a 9 degree driver that I hit higher than hell. I generally get at most 5 yards roll. This is something I wish I could change. Like I said before, I hit it around 290 on average when I put at the very least a decent swing on it, but it is all fly. I've tried slowing my swing down and moving the ball around in my stance to get a lower trajectory, but it has all been unsuccessful. Normally, I could care less about the 290 avg. with a 5 yard roll, but when I am in windy conditions, I can't control ANYTHING off the tee.

~what shaft is in it

I have a graphite shaft with extra stiff flex. Don't know the name brand but it was that custom made club.

~what is the Trajectory of your ballflight....High or Low.

As I said before, extremely high.

~African or European?

American

can't give a recommendation 'til the facts are known.

~i drink all of the time...and fit Golf Clubs as a Hobby.

~Sin

Me

I live in rural Southern Indiana. I am about an hour's drive to Evansville, IN and 2.5 hours to Indy. Not real easy to get to a demo day unless I know in advance about when and where they are. If that's the case, I would probably make the drive to check some things out.

[Dinsdale]

So, a phone solicitor "custom fitted" you with clubs without ever seeing your swing?

OK, then.

I have played with them before they had these new sticks and have seen the improvement in their tee shots. I have tried swinging their clubs and can't hit the ball for shit.

Bueller? Class? Anyone?

Two words (words that I hate, but two words, nonetheless) -- driving range.

Once again, I make no bones that there's others here that know a lot more than I, but if you constantly get high trajectory, even with a 9 degree, that finishes with a draw/hook, it means your wrists are closing too early. And you're coming up underneath. I know you said that stance doesn't seem to help, but try (at the range.....where I rarely have the patience to go) putting it back in the stance, and teeing it lower. I recently read an article by Tiger(who seems to know what he's talkiing about) that said that all other factors being equal, the lower you tee a teeshot, the straighter the ball will go.

My friend's dad, who is a million years old, and knows a thing or two, claims that most hook/slice problems with the driver can be fixed(to an extent) by simply strengthening or weakening your grip. A hook is fixed by weakening, or (for a right-hander) rotating your left hand ever-so-slightly counterclockwise. If it's more comfortable, rotate your right hand slightly clockwise. Might work, might not, but worth a bucket of balls to try, if it can make you happier. Hopefully, one of the posters with more expertise can comment on this.

[indyfrisco]

So, a phone solicitor "custom fitted" you with clubs without ever seeing your swing?

Well, he took my measurements over the phone. Height, arm length, etc. He asked about how I swing, how I hit the ball and everything. I got the clubs (1,3,5 and 3-PW) for free for 90 days to try out. I sent them back, but, long story short, they sent them back to me and I got to keep them for free after a couple conversations with my credit card company.

I never would have kept these this long and I sure wasn't going to pay for them. Since I got them free and I didn't get to play as much when I lived in Dallas the last 5 years, I figured they were good enough. Now, I get to play 2-3 times per week and am ready for a change.

Two words (words that I hate, but two words, nonetheless) -- driving range.

I know. And I have gone there a couple times in the past 6 months. My country club doesn't have a driving range though. The only range I have here in town it costs $8 for a relatively small bucket. Total fuckin ripoff.

If it's more comfortable, rotate your right hand slightly clockwise.

I thought rotating your right hand clockwise causes you to hook it even more because it causes more roll of the wrists? I have tried rotating my right hand counterclockwise and it helps a bit, but I start to hit the HUGE push+fade a lot more.

[Dinsdale]

long story short, they sent them back to me and I got to keep them for free

I've never seen them, and I now dig your clubs. RACK you, Brother Frisco.

I thought rotating your right hand clockwise causes you to hook it even more because it causes more roll of the wrists? I have tried rotating my right hand counterclockwise and it helps a bit, but I start to hit the HUGE push+fade a lot more.

Did I mention that as well as being ADD addled, I'm also dyslexic? Take any directional stuff I type with a grain of salt.

[Dinsdale]

Oh, and one more thing --

When you do get a new driver......keep an eye on the canned salmon.

[indyfrisco]

You'll have to explain that one to me.

[Dinsdale]

[indyfrisco]

Well, my work filter had red-xed that picture...

[Rushville]

Indy,

In some of the lessons I have given to people who want to stop drawing/hooking the ball, what I have found is that they address the ball with their hands behind the ball. Meaning that if their ball is just inside their left toe, their hands are midway between their hips creating an angle from their shaft to their left arm similar, but not quite as exaggerated as this...

\/
-\

If the next time you hit balls, you notice that your hands are in the middle of your stance while the ball is up front, try moving your hands forward so that they're in front of your left thigh. This should almost make the shaft and your left arm look more like a straight line. Not quite straight but almost. Close ti this...

\|
-|

Experiment with this as well as the grip and tee height suggestions that Dins made and I'll bet you find something that works to get that ball to fly lower and straighter.

[Dinsdale]

Freaking SWEET use of punctuation to illustrate, dude.

I'm jealous.

And I freaking gave up yesterday on trying to tell the super-newbie in the group about keeping the hands in front of the ball.

[Dinsdale]

Well, my work filter had red-xed that picture...

Or, I linked a red X.

It was a Driving Miss Daisy reset, and a particularly bad one, at that.

[indyfrisco]

Rush,

I’ll make sure to take a look at where my hands are relative to the ball next time I’m out. I’m pretty sure they are behind the ball. In any case, I pull out the duck hook only about 5 times in a round now including irons so I’ve got that under control. I’m rather happy with my slight draw. I’m really just trying to lower my trajectory and get a little more consistency off the tee. Basically, with my draw and my push+fade that I break out from time to time, I have about 120 yards of error from left to right. I’d love to trim that down in half. Very rarely do I play courses that require tee shots to land in less than a 60 yard landing zone.

[Rushville]

So it seems you have in inside-out swing path. Obviously, I can't tell for sure without seeing you swing in person. But since you've described you have an occasional snap hook, a typical draw, as well as an occasional push/fade, it sounds to me like you've got too different movements going on.

What are two different movements? Your body is doing one thing while your arms do another. When that is the case, your swing requires perfect timing to get the desired ball flight. Which you have said is a nice draw. That draw comes from your clubhead moving inside out with the face square to the target line or slightly closed. When your timing is off that's when you get the snap hook or the push. The hook means your arms have beat your body back to the address position and closed the face of the club. The push means your body has beat your arms back to the address position and left the face open(or square to the path that the club is moving).

There is a drill that can help get your arms and body more in sinc with each other. It will take some practice just to get used to the drill, but if you've got the desire to fix this, David Leadbetter swares by it and so do I.

Pull out a short iron. Take either a towel or two headcovers and tuck it/them under your armpits. Now hit half a bucket of balls just taking 3/4 swings. Like I said, it will take patience to get used to those objects being under your arms. But this has worked well for a lot of my students who had similar problems to what you describe. The key of the drill is to keep the towel/headcovers under your arms thoughout the swing.

This drill will not effect your trajectory. But it will better your timing which will gain you control over the flight pattern.

[Felix]

There is a drill that can help get your arms and body more in sinc with each other. It will take some practice just to get used to the drill, but if you've got the desire to fix this, David Leadbetter swares by it and so do I.

Pull out a short iron. Take either a towel or two headcovers and tuck it/them under your armpits. Now hit half a bucket of balls just taking 3/4 swings. Like I said, it will take patience to get used to those objects being under your arms. But this has worked well for a lot of my students who had similar problems to what you describe. The key of the drill is to keep the towel/headcovers under your arms thoughout the swing.

Please send your $150 payment via money order, as we do not accept personal checks.


Sincerely
Rushvilles House of Golf Instruction

(That's a great drill BTW)

[indyfrisco]

I'll give that a shot. Thanks.

[Dinsdale]

Very rarely do I play courses that require tee shots to land in less than a 60 yard landing zone.

Dang. I don't play many courses where you get more than 60 yards to work with. The super-hacker-redneck-$8 for 9-on-weekdays course me and mine are addicted to has you driving into about 30 yards on the par 5's.

Rush -- freaking eloquent. Read less, post more.

A crazy drill one of my buds with the skeelz showed me -- put a wire coathanger around both your arms(hook AWAY from your face), just above your elbows. Hit a bucket. Keeps the arms the right distance apart.Combine that with the headcover trick, and we may be on to something.

[Qbert]

RACK Rushville!

the only thing (as a Fitter) that i could add for Indy....

sounds like the x-stiff graphite shaft "might" have a lttle too much Torque in it...plus a Low Flex Point.

Torque can add Loft and cause Directional Dysfunction when you have a High Clubhead Speed.

Low Flex Point = High Trajectory.

Indy...look for "buzz words" on the Shaft of the Driver.

"low flex", "mid-flex" or "high flex"


"low torque"--->should NOT be rated ABOVE 3.5 for an x-tra stiff shaft...should be lower OR the shaft should Read "Tip STIFF."

look for a "brand name" on the Shaft: Grafaloy, Penley, UST, Aldila, Fujikura...let us know what "Names" are on the Shaft--->chances ARE that the Shaft is Junk...which relates to your above problems.

Rushville's TIP is dead-ON...but, you STILL can't Control a Driver with an INFERIOR Shaft at Your Clubhead Speed.

initial fitting recommendation: (yeah, i'd like to see you swing as well...)

any 460cc Clubhead 8.5/9.5 loft with an Aldila NV 65 x-stiff shaft (green shaft).

better yet, drive up to Rushville and take a lesson from the Man...he used to play for Money!

Crut needs to chime in soon....as Rushville and Felix have spoken.

good luck

[elgrandepeehole]

Ok, I haven’t bought a new driver in 5 years. I’m not up for looking in every magazine and doing all the research.

What’s the latest and greatest by Titlest, Taylor Made, Callaway or Nike? Any other Brands I need to take a close look at? I am mostly looking for forgiveness. I hit the hell out of the ball (about 290 avg.), but I play mostly in tight fairways so I need control more than anything.

Try the new PingG2 with the new pro launch Graffaloy Blue shaft. It really sets up well and has a very large sweet spot (not quite as sweet as Dinsdale's male lovers sweetspot, but close) and is fairly easy to control. I'm currently hitting a Titleist 983K with the Pro Launch shaft. Not a bad club, but it's not the most forgiving club. You've got to be swinging well to keep it in the short grass..

[Felix]

I'm currently hitting a Titleist 983K with the Pro Launch shaft.

Same here, but I've got the Fujikara Speeder shaft.

Not a bad club, but it's not the most forgiving club.

A Titleist club that's not forgiving? Knock me over with a feather.

You've got to be swinging well to keep it in the short grass..

[understatement][/understatement]
I think even Rush would agree that Titleist's are anything but forgiving, but when you pure one, no other club feels as nice.

I've hit the Ping and no doubt it's a great club....I just can't stand looking at it.

[elgrandepeehole]

Same here, but I've got the Fujikara Speeder shaft.

I had the "J" with a Speeder Stiff shaft. It was alright, but I found it a little whippy. I bought the 983K with the NV Aldila hit it for about 2 weeks and completely hated that motherfucker.....Worst fucking shaft on the market, sad thing is that motherfucking piece of dogshit shaft is like $90 if you were to buy one to reshaft your club. The Graff. Pro Launch only cost me $65, and is a much better shaft.

I've hit the Ping and no doubt it's a great club....I just can't stand looking at it.

Is your Ping the new G2 or is it one of the older ones. The new G2 has a pretty good look compared to the old TISI. I hit the TISI for nearly 3 years. Good club, but as you said I couldn't stand looking at it any longer not to mention it became obsolete compared to the larger more forgiving drivers.

[Felix]

I had the "J" with a Speeder Stiff shaft. It was alright, but I found it a little whippy.

I was using a Cobra SS 427 w/9 dgree loft and started skying that driver after I took a lesson. Really didn't do much other than strengthen my grip and widen my stance a little, but it changed my swing plane enough that for some reason I just could not hit the driver low enough to make the ball work the way I wanted it to.

I bought the 983 which was a demo from one of the proshops here. It's an 8.5 degree and hit it (that is, when I hit it) about 30 yards farther than the Cobra with a mid-range to moderately high ball flight--but I can live with that. The Fujikara is one of the heaviest shafts I've ever played with, but so far so good....but give it another three weeks, and it will probably desert me too.

The ironic thing is the shafts on both had the same setup, stiff shaft-low kick point. The shaft on the Cobra was a standard Cobra shaft, which could have something to do with it.

The Graff. Pro Launch only cost me $65, and is a much better shaft.

I had a local club repair guy put one of those shafts on an old Great Big Bertha I used to use and I gave it to my father of Fathers day last year. Everytime we play he tells me how much he loves that driver. He just can't thank me enough. I've hit it a few times and that shaft definitely improves that club.

Oh and now that you mention it, I think it was the older Ping I hit. It belongs to a guy I play with occasionally.

[elgrandepeehole]

[quote="Felix

The Graff. Pro Launch only cost me $65, and is a much better shaft.

I had a local club repair guy put one of those shafts on an old Great Big Bertha I used to use and I gave it to my father of Fathers day last year. Everytime we play he tells me how much he loves that driver. He just can't thank me enough. I've hit it a few times and that shaft definitely improves that club.

You must be talking about the Graffaloy Blue. That was the original, which was one of the hottest shafts over the last couple of years, but they just came out with the Pro Launch version. It's not completely blue like its predecessor. I like it, but when they reshafted my club it ended up coming in one swing weight less than the D3 I'm used to hitting. I'm probably going to drop a little lead tape on the head to see if that helps the weight transfer to allow for a more balanced feel.
If that doesn't work I'll probably move on over to the new PingG2. I'm playing in a big 2 man scramble this weekend, I'm hoping to take that mofo so I can buy the G2...

[Qbert]

El

NV 65 has a stiffer Tip than the pro launch Blue.

when you put a Tip Stiff shaft into a Bore-Thru head...its Too Stiff.

that's why Tiliest had Fujikura make a "specific Speeder" shaft for their Driver. you put a 757 Speeder in that thing...and it won't work at all. the "Titleist Speeder" has a more forgiving Tip....hence, you tought it was a little whippy.

all i know is...i'm selling the HELL outta the NV 65 over the Blue...no matter which clubhead is on it.

not saying that its "right"...but for higher clubhead speeds--->that's where my market goes.

i, too, think that the Pro Launch Blue is the Better Shaft.

but what do i know.

[longtimelistener2]

Went through this all last year and ended up with a Great big Bertha. The fitter started me on the cobra and said it was the MOST forgiving.(I have a cobra 3 wood thats offset and I enjoy it) However, he said the bertha was going to get me a little more yardage once I learned how to hit it, so I was willing to give a little accuracy early to have a club I could grow into.

Also, get your swing speed recorded. I hit the exact same club with a standard flex shaft and a stiffer shaft and my swing speed wasn't able to handle the stiffy so I slice every single ball I hit. PRO FITTING IS CRICIAL IMHO!

[Felix]

So Q am I right, is the Fujikara heavier than most other shafts or is it just my imagination? In any event, the 983 seems to work really well for me, but it always will be........a Titleist.

You take the good with the bad

[Qbert]

its heavier Greenie.

both the shaft and the clubhead.

that's why not too many peeps can Swing IT!

i'll check my Spec book L8r and give you the specifics.

[elgrandepeehole]

El

NV 65 has a stiffer Tip than the pro launch Blue.

when you put a Tip Stiff shaft into a Bore-Thru head...its Too Stiff.

Q,
I found just the opposite, I thought the NV65, (which came from the factory in my 983K), wasn't stiff enough. I also noticed the Pro Launch shaft is a little thicker than the NV. My swing speed is around 120+ with my driver, so I was looking for something that wouldn't torque as much and was a little stiffer, and I think I may have found the right mix with the Pro Launch. Again, the weight is a little off, but I'm hoping I can get that fixed, and will start hitting this one like I want.

[Felix]

My swing speed is around 120+ with my driver, so I was looking for something that wouldn't torque as much and was a little stiffer, and I think I may have found the right mix with the Pro Launch.

If your swinging at that speed, you need to go to an X-Stiff shaft if you're not already playing one.....