T1B

Kills 150 people in Ethopia. This is after another fatal crash that killed 150+ in Indonesia in October. Boeing reportedly didn't train pilots on how to manage this new aircraft which has "anti-stall" capability. I'll leave this up to Left Seater to weigh in on, but this is terrible for Boeing.

How the US hasn't grounded this aircraft is an absolute disgrace. Boeing should recall this aircraft as well.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Kills 150 people in Ethopia. This is after another fatal crash that killed 150+ in Indonesia in October. Boeing reportedly didn't train pilots on how to manage this new aircraft which has "anti-stall" capability. I'll leave this up to Left Seater to weigh in on, but this is terrible for Boeing.

How the US hasn't grounded this aircraft is an absolute disgrace. Boeing should recall this aircraft as well.

When I see Ethiopia and Indonesia I immediately think operator or maintenance error. As far as training goes, it might be an option that those airlines passed on. I'll defer to Seater to address this issue further.

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Screw_Michigan wrote:I'll leave this up to Left Seater to weigh in on, but this is terrible for Boeing.

How the US hasn't grounded this aircraft is an absolute disgrace. Boeing should recall this aircraft as well.

You can rest assured that since China grounded those planes all is good, since they have such a good track record in things like that.

First off this is terrible for those who lost loved ones.

Yes Boeing’s stock took a hit. And they need to get some shit figured out.

But neither investigation is anywhere near complete. Lots of successful flights have been completed on this model. Further Boeing has issued an airworthiness directive. They have also issued training to pilots and airlines who have bought this model. Hell even I know what to do in these situations. Kick off the autopilot and get to hand flying. The problem is many younger pilots today don’t have hand flying skills. They have video game skills and often let the auto systems fly the planes.

Ethiopian is one of, if not the best, airline operating in Africa. Their maintenance and training are reported to be top notch. That said this is being discussed on pilot boards as pilot error. Of course far to early to tell, but it looks that way. New systems will likely play a part as well.

As for recalling the planes that seems rash. Southwest has flown thousands of flights with this model without issue. I would fly on one tomorrow.

Left Seater wrote:...pilot error.

Yeah...right.





WHO ARE YOU COVERING FOR!?!?!?

Talking heads on TV pretty much say the same thing as Left Seater. I'd probably be a bit uneasy if I had to fly in one right now.

Wolfman wrote:I'd probably be a bit uneasy if I had to fly in one right now.

I looked back on my flight memory account and I have 12 segements on 737 Max 8's so far. 7 on American and 5 on Southwest.

I also have 2 in the next 6 days, both on American. I have no worries about any of these flights.

I have been thinking more about this today as it has started raining in SoCal and I am racking up hotel time, especially the grounding of the type by certain governments. China and Indonesia likely have political motives behind this. After the Lion Air crash where we know there were maintenance issues the Indonesia government didn’t ground the type. Now they see a way to shift blame away from the state supported carrier and to save face. Never mind their history.

In China the fact the government controls the airlines and there are ongoing tensions in a number of areas, trade being one of them, which allows them to make this political.

This just seems like an knee jerk reaction by Screwy and others to connect the two. The crashes were different with the recent one purposing right from the moment it left the runway.

Gee, must be knee jerk of me to be more concerned with passenger lives than Boeing money. Two crashes in five months by the same aircraft model IMO is a legitimate cause for concern.

From what I understand China has a good reputation for commercial airworthiness. On the other hand, I can understand your concern about Indonesia.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Gee, must be knee jerk of me to be more concerned with passenger lives than Boeing money. Two crashes in five months by the same aircraft model IMO is a legitimate cause for concern.

From what I understand China has a good reputation for commercial airworthiness. On the other hand, I can understand your concern about Indonesia.

Look Boeing wants to find out more than anyone if these two are related and all the details. But what do you know other than two of the most advanced airliners ever built have crashed in 3rd world countries? While at the same time there hasn’t been even a reportable incident out of the US carriers operating these planes.

I am not suggesting Americans are smarter. I am saying let’s look at training and CRM practices etc before we condemn the vehicle which is operating safely in many places.

I have a Southwest flight coming up in a couple of weeks.

I just hope my number doesn't come up.

I'm probably more in danger of walking from the Powell St BART station in San Francisco to the PG&E Energy Center on Howard Street than I am from flying on Southwest. I'm not sure I'm up to date on my typhus vaccination.

Sounds like issues with the 7th fetzer valve.

Softball Bat wrote:Sounds like issues with the 7th fetzer valve.

Are you anti-Semitic, or what?

I'd like to hear what Marty has to say about this "fetzer" valve.

I'd be more nervous about flying on a 7Late7.

Why? Some misguided thing about non union suppliers and final assembly?

Left Seater wrote: Look Boeing wants to find out more than anyone if these two are related and all the details. But what do you know other than two of the most advanced airliners ever built have crashed in 3rd world countries? While at the same time there hasn’t been even a reportable incident out of the US carriers operating these planes.

I am not suggesting Americans are smarter. I am saying let’s look at training and CRM practices etc before we condemn the vehicle which is operating safely in many places.

A fair, sensible take.

Australia announced it was banning Max 8s from its airspace today. Of course, none of its airlines fly it.

Our dipshit in chief, ladies and gentlemen

I think LS hit the nail on the head.

The problem is many younger pilots today don’t have hand flying skills.

We've seen numerous crashes from France's Airbus in simular circumstances that were pilot error. Pilots need stick time.

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Yes, time to blame the pilots! Can't allow safety to get in front of US airline profits!

88 wrote:How can you assess blame for these crashes on anyone or anything at this time? Seems like we need more facts first. But we know pilots rely more on technology than flying skills these days, and we know that complexity creates failure opportunities. Apparently you know Boeing and the US government is to blame.

That's the thing, moron. I'm not "blaming" anyone. I'm suggesting the US ground the aircraft so Boeing can figure out what the fuck is wrong with the aircraft because they haven't exactly been forthcoming after not one but TWO fatal crashes. How hard is that? Oh that's right, this is the US where corporate dollars and stock values comes way before ensuring US citizens don't die in crashes.

Screwy,

What evidence do you want use to justify the grounding of the the plane here in the US?

Then consider this if you do ground the plane. Does the government step in and force banks to not charge American or Southwest interest or principal on the loans on these grounded aircraft? Who reimburses people who booked vacations to Hawaii on Southwest which would be cancelled due to the grounding? Who reimburses the small business owner who has his flights cancelled during the shutdown?

Then consider that after the grounding and a full investigation it is determined that there were no issues with the plane?

I get that this is a tough decision but until there is hard evidence how do you justify this? If it is just on the chance that maybe no one else dies, then where do you draw that line? Do you prevent travel to Chicago? Do you ban all commercial fishing?

I am on a 737 Max 8 tomorrow from Phoenix on American. I have no concerns and will lose not a wink of sleep over it. But I guess if I go silent and American has a crash tomorrow y’all can send flowers.

Left Seater wrote:Why? Some misguided thing about non union suppliers and final assembly?

It's not "misguided." The Dreamliner became the 7Late7 due to an Italian supplier.

But Boeing themselves made some pretty stupid mistakes on their own as well.

Seater, if you corkscrew your rig into some cornfield, know that I will comfort Mrs. Seater to the best of my stamina ability.

:cry:

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Seater, if you corkscrew your rig into some cornfield, know that I will comfort Mrs. Seater to the best of my stamina ability.

:cry:

Jerking off twice a day does not give you the stamina or ability to comfort any distraught widows.

Derron wrote:

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Seater, if you corkscrew your rig into some cornfield, know that I will comfort Mrs. Seater to the best of my stamina ability.

:cry:

Jerking off twice a day does not give you the stamina or ability to comfort any distraught widows.

Seater's corpse isn't even cold yet and you're turning this into a mockery.

:x

son-of-a-bitch

Left Seater wrote:Ethiopian is one of, if not the best, airline operating in Africa.

Not sure how high of a bar that sets.

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote:Why? Some misguided thing about non union suppliers and final assembly?

It's not "misguided." The Dreamliner became the 7Late7 due to an Italian supplier.

But Boeing themselves made some pretty stupid mistakes on their own as well.

Yes there were teething problems, but there always are. Airbus is going to shut down the A-380 line after only 11 years because no one wants them. Overweight, underpowered, gas hogs. Could Boeing have done more in house? Sure. Would they have missed out on some things if the did? For sure.

The Seer wrote: Not sure how high of a bar that sets.

Seer checks in with a racist balst, but never forget: Democrats are the REAL racists.

Mikey wrote: I'm probably more in danger of walking from the Powell St BART station in San Francisco to the PG&E Energy Center on Howard Street than I am from flying on Southwest. I'm not sure I'm up to date on my typhus vaccination.

This says more about the absurdly high level of car-related violence society tolerates rather than airworthiness of 737 Max 8 aircraft.

Screw_Michigan wrote:car-related violence

Besides the miserable tard in Charlottesville, care to cite another instance? Since it's at a "high level," you shouldn't struggle with this, right?

Screw_Michigan wrote:

The Seer wrote: Not sure how high of a bar that sets.

Seer checks in with a racist balst, but never forget: Democrats are the REAL racists.

Goodness, what a Virtue Signaler you are.

So, if I make a claim that Ethiopia doesn't have the same quality of health care, nor the adherence to human rights that the USA has, does that make me "racist"?

The Newspeak that you SJWs engage in is why no sane person will ever take you seriously.

You hear "Ethiopia," and you think "how dare you make fun of those dumb mvscals!" Who's the fucking racist (remember, you're the one who thinks "Mexican" is a race... which is bigotry toward Mexicans)?

NPR interviewed a lady who had flown on one of these aircraft yesterday from Trinidad to Miami where nothing happened. A perfectly safe and uneventful flight. She was quoted as “being frightened, scared for her life.”

Really? A random passenger on a flight where she arrived safely? This is precisely why nobody trusts news organizations any longer.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Mikey wrote: I'm probably more in danger of walking from the Powell St BART station in San Francisco to the PG&E Energy Center on Howard Street than I am from flying on Southwest. I'm not sure I'm up to date on my typhus vaccination.

This says more about the absurdly high level of car-related violence society tolerates rather than airworthiness of 737 Max 8 aircraft.

It says nothing about car-relate violence, but a lot about the hordes of random lowlifes sleeping in the BART station and hanging out on Market Street and SoMa.

Dinsdale wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:car-related violence

Besides the miserable tard in Charlottesville, care to cite another instance? Since it's at a "high level," you shouldn't struggle with this, right?

40,000 people die in car crashes annually

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Seater's corpse isn't even cold yet and you're turning this into a mockery.

Seater's a big boy. It could take weeks for him to assume room temperature.

Dinsdale wrote:So, if I make a claim that Ethiopia doesn't have the same quality of health care, nor the adherence to human rights that the USA has, does that make me "racist"?

The Newspeak that you SJWs engage in is why no sane person will ever take you seriously.

You hear "Ethiopia," and you think "how dare you make fun of those dumb mvscals!" Who's the fucking racist (remember, you're the one who thinks "Mexican" is a race... which is bigotry toward Mexicans)?

Oh, come on, dude. There is absolutely no difference in technical capabilities of Ethiopians and indonesians compared to the US or Germany.

The moment 737s from Lufthansa or Swiss Air start dropping out of the sky in any numbers, I will be concerned. Every time some third world airline completes a safe flight, I chock it up to a benevolent higher being having a good day.

88 wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:40,000 people die in car crashes annually

And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars...

.....or prohibited phones in automobiles. I'm sure distracted or drunk drivers account for most of those killed.

Joe in PB wrote:
.....or prohibited phones in automobiles. I'm sure distracted or drunk drivers account for most of those killed.

Many states have laws against the use of hand held phones. But yet each day I see many drivers text and reading their phones. And lane departure crashes are the leading cause of fatalities in car accidents at least in our state.

Laws don't mean shit.

88 wrote: And yet, we haven’t grounded all the cars.

It is a political choice for society to tolerate 40,000 deaths annually to car crashes. We could reduce this figure, but we chose not to.