UAW gets theirs...

[Left Seater]

In the restructuring of Chrysler it appears that the UAW will become the largest shareholder with over 55% of the stock. The union has agreed to take stock in place of half of the pension obligations currently owed.

Any future attempt by the UAW to hold Chrysler hostage will end up hurting themselves. A work slowdown or strike will decimate their stock holdings. As such there is already division within the UAW along years of service. Those nearing retirement want the union to give up certain things to help ensure a higher stock price upon exiting the restructure. Those with less time don't want to see any give backs since they are so far from retirement.

Plus any action that harms the stock price will fall directly at the feet of the UAW.

On the other hand this could be a future road map for all unions. Taking a majority stake in the company means they benefit the most from the success and growth of the company.

[Mikey]

The contract says the UAW had agreed to accept $4.59 billion in cash plus a 55 percent stake in the Chrysler-Fiat partnership in place of the $10.6 billion that Chrysler owes a union retiree health care fund.

The union took the stock because it was the best deal that they could get. I heard an interview last week with some high official in the union and he said very unequivocably that the union does not want to own stock in the company and will not be holding it long term, also that even though they have a majority holding they will not be participating in management of the company. They plan to sell the stock as soon as the company emerges from bankruptcy in order to keep their retirement fund afloat.

[indyfrisco]

Fuck unions.

Hope the stock goes to shit and all those asshole union workers' retirements go to shit as well.

[Mikey]

Tell me something IF...

Do you have any strong opinions about labor unions?

[indyfrisco]

Oh I think they are all swell....as long as they are packed in a hot box like Jews waiting for the gas.

[BSmack]

Oh I think they are all swell....as long as they are packed in a hot box like Jews waiting for the gas.

Nothing richer than a rich man railing against the rights of workers to bargain collectively.

[trev]

I love unions. They own California and have driven the state into the ground.

[Screw_Michigan]

Oh I think they are all swell....as long as they are packed in a hot box like Jews waiting for the gas.

I'd prefer like 12 dumbfuck A&M students (I know, goes without saying) who Darwinized themselves and the 27 who missed paydirt being dumb enough participate in the bonfire.

[indyfrisco]

Oh I think they are all swell....as long as they are packed in a hot box like Jews waiting for the gas.

Nothing richer than a rich man railing against the rights of workers to bargain collectively.

Damn straight.

[Derron]

union does not want to own stock in the company and will not be holding it long term, also that even though they have a majority holding they will not be participating in management of the company. They plan to sell the stock as soon as the company emerges from bankruptcy in order to keep their retirement fund afloat.

Sounds like a great business model...financing the operation and not having a management stake ? Brilliant..that should work well..

Sell the stock WHEN the company comes out of 11 ?? That should be IF the company comes out of 11 in any sort of configuration that would restore anything above the penny stock value it has to day...hold your breath to make it happen...and then only if you can find some buyers stupid enough to buy the penny stock for investment purposes.

Retirement plan afloat ? Holding a worthless penny stock and expecting it to regain enough value to fund the retirement liabilities ? The fucking retirement fund liabilities are probably way more than any value the stock has, or ever will have in our out of 11. Go ahead and call those pension funds insolvent in about 2012 and expect a huge influx of Wal Mart greeters, and school bus drivers in their 80's to start hitting the job market, since they planned their retirement finances on that huge pension check every month, and using the SS to play bingo with. Sucks for them.

Saw the blithering and crying Chrysler and GM dealers on GMA a bit ago...'They can't do this to us.....they can't just cancel our contracts...they won't take the cars and parts back..this is not right..we have been doing this for 50 years..its not fair..its not right.."

Maybe you fucks should have got together and bitch slapped the parent around a bit and told them to wake the fuck up and learn how to sell cars....told them to bust the fucking unions and get the prices DOWN to where the common Joe could afford to pay for one in 3 years or less..stop fucking the service customer in the ass every time the car rolled into the service bay...or maybe they could have seen this coming, and changed their local level business and distribution model and got the fuck out when they had value or cash to do so....

All the GM and Chrysler dealers are just waiting for the UPS truck to bring that envelope that says " We regret to inform you that you are completely fucked and ruined. File your bankruptcy before we do. "

I am going to go ahead and buy UPS this morning..they are going to have a ton of business as GM and Chrysler fold.

Rack the Fords in my driveway.

[Sirfindafold]

bargain collectively.

[Derron]

Oh I think they are all swell....as long as they are packed in a hot box like Jews waiting for the gas.

Nothing richer than a rich man railing against the rights of workers to bargain collectively.

Yeah..that bargaining power of the UAW has REALLY helped the Big Three over the last 25 years. And it helped the rank and file real well also....I mean look at all the jobs and pension funds that collective (strangulation) bargaining process has yielded..REAL SUSTAINABLE business process there..

The power of the union should help preserve jobs at auto company's that do not exist anymore.

Expect the fire sales to begin today on overvalued pickups, trailers, motor homes, quads, motorcycles, and all the other toys the $ 60,000 factory workers will be selling in the auto zone areas...

[Derron]

the rights of workers to bargain collectively.

And the rights of secured creditors to get paid before unsecured creditors in bankruptcy proceedings?

Bueller? Anyone?

The most successful parasites don't kill their hosts.

Secured..unsecured..stop blurring the real issue here.....The unions had NOTHING to do with the demise of these companies.

Sincerely,

The UAW

[Left Seater]

The union took the stock because it was the best deal that they could get. I heard an interview last week with some high official in the union and he said very unequivocably that the union does not want to own stock in the company and will not be holding it long term, also that even though they have a majority holding they will not be participating in management of the company. They plan to sell the stock as soon as the company emerges from bankruptcy in order to keep their retirement fund afloat.

Agreed it was their only choice, but there is no way they can dump the stock in the short term. Plus, the cash payments into the pension fund are only $300 Million next year and $350 Million the year after. DAI price is tanking and after exiting restructuring if they dump huge amounts of the stock on the market the price will only fall further.

Their best bet is to help bring the company back to financial health then slowly sell off portions of their holdings.

Nice to see the UAW is being "generous" (their word) with their help to get Chrysler going again. According to the WSJ they have agreed that workers will now have to work 40 hours in a week before they can get overtime pay. And that the workers will now have to work on the Monday after Easter or not be paid for the day. WOW!!!

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Thanks for securing shitty wages and "black lung" for your children.

Seriously, I couldn't do a better job to fuck America even if I called the shots.

Oh well. At least you got your Bibles. Feel the lash, douches.

[Left Seater]

As if the only way to have a decent wage is via a union.


Actually unions help hold top performers down and bring poor performers up to the middle. I would hope that my child if I have one would work outside of a union. Twice in my life I have had the opportunity to join a union and turned it down both times. One was only a short term job, and the other I made much better wages than most in the union.

[indyfrisco]

Actually unions help hold top performers down and bring poor performers up to the middle.

Sounds a lot loike Prez. Hussein's tax plan. No wonder the libtards are all for unions.

[RJ]

Buwahahaha.

RACK the UAW finally getting fucked dry. The scumbags have deserved it for decades now.



I also noticed a nice new trend when I took my Z06 in to get an oil change recently: The dealership inhaling my grapesack furiously while my meatpiston was paddled around on thier eye sockets. Not only has the price been reduced by nearly half, they washed and vaccumed my street monster while the stretchmark flapjack udder'd "cashier" whore grabbed me a coffee and offered a krispy kreme donut that I declined with a "fuck off" look after she told me that they "appreciate my business".


Quite the contrast from the usual "we dont give a mad hell about you" that EVERY damn dealership here has put on full display for me and everyone else that rolls in since i've owned the 'Vette. The asshole techs are so fucking lazy that they have, on numerous occasions, not followed thier OWN manual written instructions on putting a Corvette on a lift properly and scratching a door on mine (now fixed) and cracking the trunks and hoods of the cars on 2 others I know. (yes, yes, very hard for these dumbfucks to pop the hood and trunk on these supercars before cranking the lift up )


I punked the Manager at this newest dealership I went to and let him know how fucking lucky he was that I still own a Chevy product after all the bullshit.

If the 'vettes drivetrain wasnt so damn bulletproof and monstrously fast, i'd surely be in a Ford.


Fuck the UAW, and Fuck GM. Shedding over 2000 dealerships (1100 immediately) is going to do wonders for thier newfound "customer care". Assholes.

[Left Seater]

Dealerships are learning the customer service does matter.

My mom recently bought a car via fax. She sent the same fax to 6 dealerships in her area. She already knew the model that she wanted with the options. She let each know that they were bidding against 5 other dealerships. Two faxed back with numbers to call. She eliminated them right away. The other 4 provided a number after multiple faxes. One then wanted her number for the sales mgr to call. Eliminated. She then used the others numbers against each other to get the best deal she could. Also helped that she was paying cash and they would have it instantly.

She picked up a cashiers check and then went and got into her new car in about 10 minutes.

[Derron]

Dealerships are learning the customer service does matter.

For the ones that are left in business. I want to rack RJ's take also. he hit it right on about a number of things.

I very seldom took anything to the dealer. Last time was the OL's Mustang GT. Needed a starter. Put one in drove it home. Parked it, and the battery dead as a fucking dog in the morning. Wiring not hooked back up...dead short. Wasted the battery. Service dept was going to charge me for a battery.

Next time it was the A/C. Picked the car up, left the dealership, turned on the A/C and got a face full of insulation that just kept blowing out the vents. Got a raft of shit about why it did that, and how much MORE it was going to cost to fix it. Righttt....

That car never went back there. Found a nice independent shop who does excellent work at half the rates. Found another independent shop to work on my Powerstrokes and Freightliners.

Now Gm is trying to sell these units for about $ 47,000.



I will just run right out and buy a couple at that bargain price.

Found a nice used Freightliner Fl -60 (non CDL) chassis for 8K. Put a 12 foot flat bed on it we had, got 4 nice side boxes for $ 100 each off craigslist, and a full size 12 foot rack for another $ 500. So for less than 10k, I got a rig that will last 10 years at 1/4 or less the price. And with a Cummins engine and Allison transmission, a help of a lot more dependable than my Fords, and for damn sure the Chevy. Who is Dodge anyway ?

With all the dealerships closing up, the number of these tech's opening there own shops is going to greatly increase, and some of these guys are damn good, and reasonably priced. Rack them.

Fuck the UAW, fuck the Big 3 and fuck these dealers.

[Diego in Seattle]

the rights of workers to bargain collectively.

And the rights of secured creditors to get paid before unsecured creditors in bankruptcy proceedings?

Bueller? Anyone?

The most successful parasites don't kill their hosts.

Secured..unsecured..stop blurring the real issue here.....The unions had NOTHING to do with the demise of these companies.

Sincerely,

The UAW

Yeah, everything is always the unions fault. The non-union shops & management never screw things up.


Sincerely,

[Left Seater]

Yeah, great example on the 787. That jet would be in the air right now but for the union's action.


Granted there were other delays with suppliers and design, but it should be flying today.

[Derron]

Yeah, great example on the 787. That jet would be in the air right now but for the union's action.


Granted there were other delays with suppliers and design, but it should be flying today.

Exactly...go ahead and put the Aerospace Workers union next on the list, and Boeing next to fall down. But at least Boeing is still publicly held versus the gubmint owned Airbus. Never any sslllooowwwdddooowwwnnnsss at Boeing. Boeing machinists last year staged an extended walk out in PDX. Standing on the corner waving signs, cocksuckering the company, management and all. They only made 50K to 70K per year in a tanking economy.

Labor can only be about 50% or more of that planes costs. Labor has very little to do with production rates and costs.

Fuck them.

[War Wagon]

Labor can only be about 50% or more of that planes costs. Labor has very little to do with production rates and costs.

What?

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but those two sentences directly contradict each other.

And fwiw, in a typical manufacturing operation, labor is 25% or less of the total cost of any given product. Materials make up the biggest portion followed by overhead.

[fix]

I love unions. They own California and have driven the state into the ground.

unions is slang for Mexicans?

[Cuda]

Fuck the UAW, and Fuck GM. Shedding over 2000 dealerships (1100 immediately) is going to do wonders for thier newfound "customer care". Assholes.

Nobody has yet offered any coherent explanation how fewer dealers translates into increased sales. I guess that's because it just doesn't fucking work that way. The dealerships don't cost Chrysler or GM a fucking dime. The dealer has to arrange financing on his own so he can pay cash to GM or Chrysler for his cars. Fewer dealers is only going to result in fewer cars being sold- no other option is possible.

I've always been a Chevy/GM guy, but if GM takes the same route as Chrysler, I'll never fucking buy an American car again.

Yeah, everything is always the unions fault. The non-union shops & management never screw things up.


Sincerely,

Just shut the fuck up you goddam dipshit. Every time you post, you illustrate what a fucking moron you are. Do you know the slightest fucking thing about anything? Do you even realize what a fucking dildo you are?

and speaking of dumbfucks...

The union took the stock because it was the best deal that they could get. I heard an interview last week with some high official in the union and he said very unequivocably that the union does not want to own stock in the company and will not be holding it long term, also that even though they have a majority holding they will not be participating in management of the company. They plan to sell the stock as soon as the company emerges from bankruptcy in order to keep their retirement fund afloat.

The union took the deal because, as unsecured creditors, they'd be shit out of luck in Bankruptcy court- so now it's the secured creditors that get ass-raped. If the union really, really didn't want to be stockholders, they should have declined the stock deal.

[War Wagon]

The dealerships don't cost Chrysler or GM a fucking dime. The dealer has to arrange financing on his own so he can pay cash to GM or Chrysler for his cars.

I don't know about that, but even if it's true, I'm sure many of those dealers have clauses and stipulations in their contracts that allows them to return any unsold inventory, at full cost, after a certain amount of time, say 90 or 120 days.

Closing under-performing dealers, while not necessarily increasing (or decreasing) sales, is bound to cut the cost of doing business in the long term.

[Cuda]

Somehow, I missed putting you in the dipshit column, wags.

in a typical manufacturing operation, labor is 25% or less of the total cost of any given product. Materials make up the biggest portion followed by overhead.

Labor IS "overhead" you goddam moron.

In fact, just using the word "overhead" is proof that you're a clueless dumbfuck.

[Left Seater]

I don't know about that, but even if it's true, I'm sure many of those dealers have clauses and stipulations in their contracts that allows them to return any unsold inventory, at full cost, after a certain amount of time, say 90 or 120 days.

Closing under-performing dealers, while not necessarily increasing (or decreasing) sales, is bound to cut the cost of doing business in the long term.

War Wagon,

I am going to have to disagree with you. There are plenty of stories out there of dealers saying how they have been forced to buy Avengers and Sebrings that they can't sell or have to sell below cost to get just a couple of the more popular such as the Charger. The dealers have a franchise agreement and they pay the manufacturer for the right to sell their cars. So how does removing dealerships from some cities completely help your bottom line? For example the city of Corpus Christi, Texas will soon not have a single Chrysler dealer. This is a city with 300K people. Does that make sense?

Secondly, most states have laws protecting the franchisee. The franchisee must be compensated for the loss of the franchise agreement unless just cause can be proven. Look for multiple lawsuits seeking payments under these franchisee protections.

[Derron]

Labor can only be about 50% or more of that planes costs. Labor has very little to do with production rates and costs.

What?

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but those two sentences directly contradict each other.

And fwiw, in a typical manufacturing operation, labor is 25% or less of the total cost of any given product. Materials make up the biggest portion followed by overhead.

[sarcasm]Labor can only be about 50% or more of that planes costs. Labor has very little to do with production rates and costs. [/sarcasm]

Fixed it so you could understand it.

In a typical manufacturing operation, labor SHOULD be 25% or less of the total cost of the product. I don't have proof, or a link, just a gut feeling that Boeing's 787 labor costs are a bit above 25%.

[RJ]

Fuck the UAW, and Fuck GM. Shedding over 2000 dealerships (1100 immediately) is going to do wonders for thier newfound "customer care". Assholes.

Nobody has yet offered any coherent explanation how fewer dealers translates into increased sales.

The formula that was used to punk the immediate 1,100 dealers was looking at dealer sales, profitability, Customer Service Scores (CSI-which fucking SUCKED, im sure) and working capital (Cash in the bank). This formula gives each dealer a score. History shows that the lower the score, the more chance the dealer is not going to make it. These were the dealers who got the letter. RACK.

The letter IS NOT a termination letter like Chrysler dealers got, Coods. It's a heads up that when their current GM agreement runs out in December 2010, GM does not intend on resigning with them. This gives those dealers over 18 months to wind down business, sell off inventory, etc. This list of dealers will not be released by GM so the dealers can handle it anyway they want.

Come June, the rest of the dealers will be told what is to be expected of them to remain a GM dealer going forward. The dealers will have to decide at that point if they want to go forward or if they want to start the wind down process on their own.

Give or take, there are about 6,000 GM dealers. About 500 are Hummer, Saturn or Saab stand alone dealers, so they will be gone once those units are sold. Add that to the 1,100 contacted today will take GM to around 4,400. They are guessing that once the new direction of GM is laid out, they will probably end up with somewhere between 3,600 and 4,000 dealers.

This will save money in terms of interaction, training and other such costs. Also, the dealers should have an easier time selling cars with out as much competition. If cars sell better then GM will not have to pay as much in incentives. This is how cutting dealers will benefit GM, supposedly.


The immediate problem I see with this is the Stealerships GM is shutting down NOT being honest with thier customers about them being on the hit list (no list will be released of said dealerships, but i'm almost dead sure san diego will be without one according to that criteria :x ) and selling them a car under the false pretense that they'll be around to perform any work needed on it.....then *poof*. Gone. Customer now has to drive 20-30 more miles to nearest dealership.

[smackaholic]

There's no fukking way to say that labor has to be some predetermined % of cost. It depends on the complexity of the product. Cars are fairly complex and take a fair bit of labor to assemble. Same goes for planes. No fukking clue what the actual % is, but, to say it needs to be under 25 or any other number for manufacturing in general is almost as stupid as saying that labor is not overhead.

[Diego in Seattle]

Yeah, great example on the 787. That jet would be in the air right now but for the union's action.

Please tell everyone how long the strike was, and how far the plane is behind schedule.

Granted there were other delays with suppliers and design, but it should be flying today.

No it shouldn't. And that's why management wanted the strike. They made promises they never should have made.

Additionally, the delays with suppliers were huge. While some of the problems were caused by Boeing (sending out orders for parts before sending out engineering is real smart), many were caused by non-union suppliers. They got what they paid for.

You might know how to fly a plane, but you don't know shit about manufacturing one.

[Diego in Seattle]

I don't think there's ever been a thread on peeling potatoes in here.....so you're excused.

[War Wagon]

There's no fukking way to say that labor has to be some predetermined % of cost. It depends on the complexity of the product. Cars are fairly complex and take a fair bit of labor to assemble. Same goes for planes. No fukking clue what the actual % is, but, to say it needs to be under 25 or any other number for manufacturing in general is almost as stupid as saying that labor is not overhead.

Labor is most assuredly not a portion of overhead, you ignorant fuckwit. Furthermore, the complexity of the product has nothing whatsoever to do with the % of labor that any given product costs, be it a squadron of F-22's or a bag of hammers. And yes, if the labor to produce anything exceeds a certain threshold of the total cost, let's call it 30%, there's absolutely no way to make a profit.

[Cuda]

This will save money in terms of interaction, training and other such costs. Also, the dealers should have an easier time selling cars with out as much competition. If cars sell better then GM will not have to pay as much in incentives. This is how cutting dealers will benefit GM, supposedly.

That's all stuff the dealerships pay for themselves anyway. As far as the incentives go, the dealers even pay for them out of pocket, and then wait anywhere from 45-60 days for the factory to reimburse them.

Service issues aside, if you have fewer people trying to sell your product, you're NOT going to sell more product. That makes it pretty obvious that the decisions being made as of January 20, 2009 aren't business decisions, but political ones.

[Smackie Chan]

if you have fewer people trying to sell your product, you're NOT going to sell more product.

They're resigned to the fact that they're not going to sell more product. The issue then becomes the cost of selling product versus profitability. If the ratio of profit to cost increases as a result of selling less product (and conversely decreases by selling more), it makes economic sense to close stores. Happens in retail all the time.

[War Wagon]

...if you have fewer people trying to sell your product, you're NOT going to sell more product.

Not necessarily. It's entirely possible that a leaner, meaner, more focused GM could sell more cars in the future once the economy finishes swirling the drain

Coods, I'm not an insider at any dealership, never have been. Maybe you are, so please explain to me how it is that the 400 to 500 GM dealers slated for closing that are selling on average only 35 new cars a year can or should keep their doors open?

While you're at it, g'head and explain how it is they've managed to stay in business to this point without any support whatsoever from the parent, as you contend?

[Smackie Chan]

It's entirely possible that a leaner, meaner, more focused GM could sell more cars in the future once the economy finishes swirling the drain

Yep - the cyclical nature of our economy. When this happens, more dealerships will open. When the next inevitable downturn arrives, contraction will happen again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[smackaholic]

There's no fukking way to say that labor has to be some predetermined % of cost. It depends on the complexity of the product. Cars are fairly complex and take a fair bit of labor to assemble. Same goes for planes. No fukking clue what the actual % is, but, to say it needs to be under 25 or any other number for manufacturing in general is almost as stupid as saying that labor is not overhead.

Labor is most assuredly not a portion of overhead, you ignorant fuckwit. Furthermore, the complexity of the product has nothing whatsoever to do with the % of labor that any given product costs, be it a squadron of F-22's or a bag of hammers. And yes, if the labor to produce anything exceeds a certain threshold of the total cost, let's call it 30%, there's absolutely no way to make a profit.

Alright then, smartass. What exactly is overhead? Well, I guess it's pretty much anything, if you're moving sale, but, what is it with regards to expenses. And the complexity of the product sure the fukk does have everything to do with the % of labor costs. If you manufacture 10-32 x 3/4" stainless steel screws, your labor costs are pretty damn low. Your material costs are high.