Auto bailout modern day Civil War

[War Wagon]

UAW angry, lashes out at Southern Senators

So basically, the auto bailout bill went down in flames because GOP Senators from Dixie want the UAW to structure their wage and benefit package more in line with the foreign car makers. And the UAW were loathe to concede that much, not that I blame them.

The fact that each of these Senators are from States that gave huge tax incentives to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan to locate their "slave wage" factories in their respective dirt poor shit-holes just might have something to do with their vote, dontcha' think?

I find this all very ironic and I'm torn, seeing both sides of the equation. I know most of you think I'm a huge union sympathizer, and I am, to a certain degree. But enough is enough as far as the UAW is concerned. But no, I don't want to see it dismantled, as I believe they help raise the tide for all, including those non-union workers in the rice burner plants.

On the other hand, if the Big 3 go under it's going to fuck a good portion of this already moribund economy, which I'd hate to see get any worse. One of the ironies is that the foreign plants in those Southern States will also be fucked in that they won't be able to get parts from the shared suppliers. They're likely to go under as well if the Big 3 do.

The ultimate irony is the UAW, who prolly vote 90% Dem, is now looking to Bush to save their asses, at least temporarily. And he probably will, taking money from the Wall Street bail-out and siphoning it off to GM, Ford, and Chrysler. The last thing he wants on his already badly damaged legacy is that he stood idly bye in his last days and allowed the beacons of American industrial might to drown.

[Wolfman]

http://laborpains.org/2008/12/12/22-pou ... gulations/

Here's some light reading for everyone.

[Derron]

I know most of you think I'm a huge union sympathizer, and I am, to a certain degree. But enough is enough as far as the UAW is concerned. But no, I don't want to see it dismantled, as I believe they help raise the tide for all, including those non-union workers in the rice burner plants.

On the other hand, if the Big 3 go under it's going to fuck a good portion of this already moribund economy,

Well guess fucking what....

None of them are going under. They might go into Chapter 11, but no one is going under. Chapter 11 will allow them some protection, and it will sure as hell force the UAW hands, and they will get a lot less than if they had come back with some give backs before the filing.

What is enough of what anyway??

Chapter 11 makes all kinds of shit happen...you wait and see how many and who emerges to step in pick up those company's....get the fucking greedy, stand their with their hand out unions to give back a whole lot more if you want your fucking jobs, other wise hit the fucking bricks...

The union helped all them get that,and that is one of the primary reasons those company's are fucked the way they are right now, and they are helping them lose a hell of a lot more by not stepping up right now... ESOP anyone ?

You put those company's in Chapter 11, you rework the labor agreements, kick the stupid fucks in management out, and those companies come back strong.

Start building cars that people can pay for in 2 to 3 years instead of 5 to 8 years, you might sell some more.

I have bought exactly 2 new cars in the last 36 years. A 1978 Chevy shortbox 4X4 that I paid $ 5,000 CASH for in 78, and a Plymouth van ( biggest piece of shit I ever owned, BTW) in 1996. Since that time, I drive paid for cars, that are 3 years old, with medium mileage. Started buying used trucks for my business, 5 years old usually, 100,000 miles or more and I pay fucking CASH for them.

Iacocca told the UAW when the first bailout went down," I got a fucking shotgun to your head. Give me the give backs I need to make this work, and give them to me by midnight, or I will pull the fucking trigger and file bankruptcy by noon tomorrow. "

Fuck their unions.....you better get on your union board, cause those idiot union bosses will stand there demanding more, and more and more, while the attorneys are getting the BR filings stamped at the court house.

Bust them fucking cry baby unions....modify the DB and prevailing wage laws by at least 30% downward and you might stand a chance of seeing some improvement in the economy.

[Screw_Michigan]

Per usual with Derron, none of that made a bit of fucking sense and was equal to diarrhea on this fair thread. Was with him for about a minute there, then he slid into his traditionally hysterical rant and drug-induced ravings that had absolutely nothing to do with the topic on hand. Par for the course for Duhhhron.

RACK Wags.

[War Wagon]

None of them are going under. They might go into Chapter 11, but no one is going under. Chapter 11 will allow them some protection, and it will sure as hell force the UAW hands, and they will get a lot less than if they had come back with some give backs before the filing.

Maybe, maybe not. The head honcho's of the Big 3 say bankruptcy isn't a viable option because people won't buy from a company that went bankrupt.

Btw, the UAW has agreed in principle to many give backs already, including the jobs bank program and suspending payments into their pension health care benefits. That's not small change.

But some won't be satisfied until they're flat busted and broken... and prove no threat to those foreign make factories... that they might actually have the gall to unionize.

In a nutshell, that's the crux of the issue. Those Senators from Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.... are protecting their turf, at the expense of workers in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, etc.

That's why I titled this thread a modern day Civil War. In a very real economic sense, that's exactly what it is. But instead of fighting over the right to own slaves, we're fighting over the right to have decent health care and job security.

The South may win this one.

[poptart]

Bailout is just simply NOT Constitutionally authorized.

Therefore it is NOT (or sure as hell ought not be) an option.

N O T


The auto makers need to find their answers elsewhere.


Tough medicine?

Tough shit.

[smackaholic]

I used to live in Smyrna, TN, a few miles down the road from that slave wage Nissan plant. Somebody forgot to tell those fukks that they were working for slave wages, cause they had nice trucks, nice houses and really nice bass boats.

As for it being a backwater shithole, I'll take the nashville metro area over damn near any place in the country. Want world class live music? You could do worse.

[Mister Bushice]

Don't worry, whitey. Your president bush will step in and make the stupid move of spending our tax money to bail these shit fucks out despite the fact we don't want it and it will be at no true benefit to ALL of us and is against everything he swore to defend when he took office by the oath this country was built on, because he is thinking it will become his presidential legacy saver, like all his other dumbshit moves that didn't work out quite that way.

One thing he has been consistent in is his amazing ability to make stupid decisions that screw over the country he swore to defend.

He might as well ride that horse hard and put it away wet.

[War Wagon]

Your president bush will step in and make the stupid move of spending our tax money to bail these shit fucks out despite the fact we don't want it and it will be at no true benefit to ALL of us and is against everything he swore to defend when he took office by the oath this country was built on, because he is thinking it will become his presidential legacy saver, like all his other dumbshit moves that didn't work out quite that way.

Damn. And here I thought I was the king of the run on sentence.

Nice job babbling incoherently, Bitchshice. Derron thinks that's fucked up and should just be left at that.

Don't you have some soon to be foreclosed properties to be attending to?

[KC Scott]

Glass Dick Wags

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30162&p=559426#p559426

[Mister Bushice]

Bwahahaha!

That's why I titled this thread a modern day Civil War.

Whitey. Not even an original thought.

Just title all of your future threads:

"Stuff I thunk up after reading other peoples posts"

Is KC trying to corner the market on cut and paste philosophers, or is there something in the water there?

[War Wagon]

Glass Dick Wags

So?

Sorry, I didn't reset your original thread, but I wanted a fresher perspective.

Is that ok with you?

And I still believe that anyone who buys a foreign make car is a traitorous piece of shit and beneath contempt. I'll always believe that. Oops, that includes YOU... guess you're just fucked.

Saw a great bumper sticker the other day on an F-150. You know, those trucks that are made at the Claycomo plant by your neighbors? It said "Get my flag (pic of stars and stripes) off your foreign make car". Rackable.

Do you have a flag on your Toyota truck, Scotty? Probably adjacent to the Obama sticker.

[KC Scott]

OK, Dave now you get a glass douche.

Guess the Nati light is strong in you tonight......

Here's what you wrote in that thread:

Hell Dave, I thought you'd be all for bailing out the "made in America" boyz.

I was at first. Knee jerk reaction.

Now I realize the UAW needs to make some major concessions from that sweet contract they inked just last year. They average like $70 an hour in wages and benefits? Fuck that noise.

What needs to happen is a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Re-organize the debt and punt these assembly line fucks from their lifetime sweet deal of installing batteries.

What should re-emerge after the bankrupcy is American car makers who can compete.

So while you'r doing your little guilt flounder routine, consider this........

Fords & Chevy's are also made in Canada and Mexico - Toyotas are made in Texas and Tennessee
Americans own stock in Toyota - The Chinese own stock in Ford and GM

I'm sure if you're itty bitty head didn't just explode contemplating those truths, then you'll at least provide several more mush mouth flag waving jingonistic replies that your spindly little fingers will attempt to turn into coherent thought.

Good luck with that and BTW - Bumper stickers, just like metallic flags and colored ribbons are for those douches that think anyone really gives a fuck what they think.

[.m2]

Fuck... unions.

One of the worst things to ever happen to America.




the truth

[War Wagon]

Good luck with that and BTW - Bumper stickers, just like metallic flags and colored ribbons are for those douches that think anyone really gives a fuck what they think.

So, that's a "yes" on the Obama sticker.

Drive that Toyota with pride, even while your neighbors look at you askance. If the American car makers go belly-up, you'll be able to say to yourself that you helped make that happen.

You can seek consolation in knowing that you own stock in Toyota.

Jingoism?

Remember Pearl Harbor.

[poptart]

And I still believe that anyone who buys a foreign make car is a traitorous piece of shit and beneath contempt. I'll always believe that.

And yet the current president, who has @ssfucked the American taxpaying citizen for generations to come with his open-border/amnesty bullsheet, is somehow viewed by you to be a historically great prez.

Genius.

[Jerkovich]

http://laborpains.org/2008/12/12/22-pou ... gulations/

Here's some light reading for everyone.

Here, let's lighten that load:

1. Work and gat paid the prevailing wage.

2. Talk about unionizing, get fired.

3. Bitch, moan, and cry about benefits; GET DEAD.



Fuck those greedy bastards. Let them eat fucking cake.

[Screw_Michigan]

And yet the current president, who has @ssfucked the American taxpaying citizen for generations to come with his open-border/amnesty bullsheet

More like deficit spending and borrowing to pay for a war we couldn't afford in the first place, but yeah, close enough.

[War Wagon]

And yet the current president, who has @ssfucked the American taxpaying citizen for generations to come with his open-border/amnesty bullsheet, is somehow viewed by you to be a historically great prez.

Still beating that dead horse, eh?

Too bad that illegal immigration isn't the worst of our problems. We'd be in not too bad of shape if it were.

What do you care anyway? Are you an American taxpayer?

[Diego in Seattle]

And yet the current president, who has @ssfucked the American taxpaying citizen for generations to come with his open-border/amnesty bullsheet, is somehow viewed by you to be a historically great prez.

Still beating that dead horse, eh?

Too bad that illegal immigration isn't the worst of our problems. We'd be in not too bad of shape if it were.

You're extremely naive if you think that illegal immigration hasn't contributed to our current economic situation.

[Derron]

Maybe, maybe not. The head honcho's of the Big 3 say bankruptcy isn't a viable option because people won't buy from a company that went bankrupt.

Right...the head nuts of those company's have been right on the cutting edge for the last 25 years. Great forecasting...guess what their job is to sell cars to DEALERS... the dealers sell to JOnh Q,..both models are pretty fucked up right now.

Btw, the UAW has agreed in principle to many give backs already, including the jobs bank program and suspending payments into their pension health care benefits. That's not small change.

Big fucking deal... its not enough..want to be competitive with Toyota,Honda, etc?? ..then you better get closer to their domestic US business model...which has been eating their lunch with US built cars for a long time now. Therefore we can call bullshit on that theory.

But some won't be satisfied until they're flat busted and broken... and prove no threat to those foreign make factories... that they might actually have the gall to unionize.

Nothing wrong with unions...just the UAW current stance and its own labor model is flawed..there again..it just might have something to do with the bIg 3's stepping in shit and the foreign owned, but domestically manufactured cars kicking the shit out of Ford,GM,Chrysler.

In a nutshell, that's the crux of the issue. Those Senators from Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia etc.... are protecting their turf, at the expense of workers in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, etc.

Bwwaahaaa....and the dishonorable gentlemen for those other states have had their lips wrapped around, Barney Fag's cock, Nancy Pelosi's snatch, and every lobbyist's checkbook is out to bail out the BIg 3, and save the fucking US, because if the Big 3 go down the US goes down. What a fucking crock of shit.

That's why I titled this thread a modern day Civil War. In a very real economic sense, that's exactly what it is. But instead of fighting over the right to own slaves, we're fighting over the right to have decent health care and job security.

Not a bad analogy, but flawed. Difference..DECENT health care and job security ?? Sure...but the cradle to grave entitlement benefits the UAW has demanded for 50 years with their continual whimpering and whining, the retiree health care full ride packages, the full pensions, since the previous UAW generation spent every dime they made bowling and drinking beer on Friday and Saturday nights in Detroit, then cocksuckering the auto companies for not doing ENOUGH for them.

The South may win this one.

May win this one ??...GM and Ford will be building pickups and trucks only, Chrysler just needs to die, and the foreign owned, domestically made brands will have the car market.

These morons just can't see that almost all company's will come out of this recession with vastly different business models, and manufacturing will never look the same ever again..

The South can probably call BODE about any time now. But you fucks in Kansas and Missouri always wait to see which way the tide goes before you bandwagon anyway.

[Derron]

And yet the current president, who has @ssfucked the American taxpaying citizen for generations to come with his open-border/amnesty bullsheet, is somehow viewed by you to be a historically great prez.

Still beating that dead horse, eh?

Too bad that illegal immigration isn't the worst of our problems. We'd be in not too bad of shape if it were.

You're extremely naive if you think that illegal immigration hasn't contributed to our current economic situation.

We see no problem with illegal immigration taking jobs in this country. It is a fabrication of the ruling Republican party.

Sin,

Journeyman and Apprentice Tradesmen of the United States.

[RJ]

OK, Dave now you get a glass douche.

:D

Make it happen, wytches.



Wags, I cant believe you'd support a fucking Bailout when this hard evidence is sitting right in front of your face:

"They basically came to Washington and said give us a check so we can continue to fund business as usual

As far as the UAW goes, they can smoke a fat fucking hairy beanbag. Those cunts havent been useful in decades, and thier demise is long overdue. Fucking snakes. The government also sucks pulsating parrot penis, but RACK them for telling GM, Chrysler, and Ford to go fuck themselves sideways.

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are run lean without the UAW and also possess something that GM and Chrysler do not: Competent fucking management. Fuck the big 3 and sayonara, assbags. Want to save your sorry ass selves? Take a lesson from the motor companies that do it fucking right.

As it stands, this bailout money will get pissed away just as stupidly as the big 3's OWN money did before. Fuck them. Chapter 11 awaits, you bunch of spineless empty fucking suits who havent a damn clue on how to operate in today's day and age.


And this is coming from a current Z06 Corvette owner and previous owner of many, many American musclecars.

GM and Chrysler (Ford doesnt really need bailout money right now, just a credit line) have fucked themselves by putting out a shit product for FAR too long. The mid 70's to mid 90's saw some of the worst cars to EVER grace the road put out by GM and Chrysler. They essentially LET the foriegn companies come in and offer a MUCH better product at a lower price, and did NOTHING to change this countries' mindset that GM is absolute trash......except put out more shop bound bullshit autos.

The reason I cant include Ford on that list because every Mustang I have owned has been rock solid and given me absolutely NO issues up until the day I sold them.

Yeah, since 2000 GM and Chrysler may have FINALLY caught up with the Asian automaker in terms of reliability and build quality, but its too little too late. They lost a fucking TON of the American carbuyer landscape by not giving a fuck about a higher quality product when the Ferners did. I feel absolutely no pity for them, and I will go so far as to RACK the foriegn automakers for helping to keep a shitload of Americans employed while the Big 3 are giving out pink slips to thiers.


RACK Congress again for giving the Big 3 a massive middle finger.

[Smackie Chan]

Realizing that worker compensation is a key factor contributing to the problems of the Big 3, and also realizing that we are not Japan and shouldn't blindly emulate what they do, there still are lessons management could and should learn from them:

[Derron]

OK, Dave now you get a glass douche.

:D

Make it happen, wytches.



Wags, I cant believe you'd support a fucking Bailout when this hard evidence is sitting right in front of your face:

"They basically came to Washington and said give us a check so we can continue to fund business as usual

As far as the UAW goes, they can smoke a fat fucking hairy beanbag. Those cunts havent been useful in decades, and thier demise is long overdue. Fucking snakes. The government also sucks pulsating parrot penis, but RACK them for telling GM, Chrysler, and Ford to go fuck themselves sideways.

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are run lean without the UAW and also possess something that GM and Chrysler do not: Competent fucking management. Fuck the big 3 and sayonara, assbags. Want to save your sorry ass selves? Take a lesson from the motor companies that do it fucking right.

As it stands, this bailout money will get pissed away just as stupidly as the big 3's OWN money did before. Fuck them. Chapter 11 awaits, you bunch of spineless empty fucking suits who havent a damn clue on how to operate in today's day and age.


And this is coming from a current Z06 Corvette owner and previous owner of many, many American musclecars.

GM and Chrysler (Ford doesnt really need bailout money right now, just a credit line) have fucked themselves by putting out a shit product for FAR too long. The mid 70's to mid 90's saw some of the worst cars to EVER grace the road put out by GM and Chrysler. They essentially LET the foriegn companies come in and offer a MUCH better product at a lower price, and did NOTHING to change this countries' mindset that GM is absolute trash......except put out more shop bound bullshit autos.

The reason I cant include Ford on that list because every Mustang I have owned has been rock solid and given me absolutely NO issues up until the day I sold them.

Yeah, since 2000 GM and Chrysler may have FINALLY caught up with the Asian automaker in terms of reliability and build quality, but its too little too late. They lost a fucking TON of the American carbuyer landscape by not giving a fuck about a higher quality product when the Ferners did. I feel absolutely no pity for them, and I will go so far as to RACK the foriegn automakers for helping to keep a shitload of Americans employed while the Big 3 are giving out pink slips to thiers.


RACK Congress again for giving the Big 3 a massive middle finger.

Lets just rack the whole take here..but the Union honk known as War Wagon will find a dispute in there somewhere.

[poptart]

As it stands, this bailout money will get pissed away just as stupidly as the big 3's OWN money did before.

Yep, of course.

And RACK your whole take.

It's always easier to spend money that ain't yours.

Too bad that illegal immigration isn't the worst of our problems

Does this mean you finally recognize it as a ... problem?

Just curious, what IS, iyo, the worst problem America has?

[Ang]

Good for Ford for not asking for the bailout, just a parachute in case they need it.

One thing no one mentioned...Chrysler is a privately held company. No one buys stock in Chrysler unless they are on the board or works there. It is not on the NYSE or anywhere else.

GM is a publicly traded company.

I think that makes a difference.

[Dr_Phibes]

RACK Congress again for giving the Big 3 a massive middle finger.

Post mortems aren't always that helpful though, you do realise that larger issues are at stake? The automakers are taking on a role that goes far beyond their own importance - The US economy is in a precarious position and some degree of stability is needed, no matter where it comes from.

I equate it with British shipbuilding, you get knocked out for a year or two - and that's all it takes to prevent you from ever getting back in, you're too far behind to ever catch up again, no matter how good or how long you've been at it.

[.m2]

I support the bailout...

...but, I'm just a businessman who made enough money at 35 to retire.


The economy is far more reaching than just the car companies and their mismanagement.


I'll take a temporary "blow job" for the motor companies to keep the other top 100 (Thomas Register manufactures) afloat.

Even if the retards keep running things as usual... it'll give the other fuckers time to make things right in such a tenuous economy.



Trust me... I don't like these yes men (Motor company dorks), either.



It's just the right thing to do now.






the truth

[Mr T]

Good luck with that and BTW - Bumper stickers, just like metallic flags and colored ribbons are for those douches that think anyone really gives a fuck what they think.

Considering they are mostly made in china, it is kinda ironic.

"I buy american look at me. I am going to buy this flag to show how patriotic I am. Fuck China and dem ricer cars"

[Mr T]

And I still believe that anyone who buys a foreign make car is a traitorous piece of shit and beneath contempt. I'll always believe that. Oops, that includes YOU... guess you're just fucked.

A lot of those "foreign cars" are made in America by Americans. Somehow if you buy a car made in America is wrong.

You continue to support chung-lei and wang-chung by buying "American"

Saw a great bumper sticker the other day on an F-150. You know, those trucks that are made at the Claycomo plant by your neighbors? It said "Get my flag (pic of stars and stripes) off your foreign make car". Rackable.

I wonder if that bumper sticker was made in china or at least the sticker before it was inked. I bet he flies an American Flag everyday not ever noticing that made in china tag on it.

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