Charlie and the Choke-a-lot Factory done?

[SoCalTrjn]

Speaking to Neuter Lame fans before and after the game tonite many were saying that they didnt see anyway Weis stays on at Notre Dame and that they would donate money to get him out of there. I realize those are just the comments from West Coast Notre Dame fans but how different can their opinions be from ND fans elsewhere?
The offensive stinking genius couldnt get his team a first down until 45 minutes in to the game and they had I think 2 the entire
USCs offense looked bad and many Trojan fans are asking that Sarkisian step down but they looked like a Big 12/Arena team compared to the Irish.

How much did it burn the ND sheep to see Joe Montana walking around on USCs sideline all game? Apparently his son Nick who is an 11th grader at Oaks christian wants to go to USC, his older brother is already a student at USC.

Cierre Wood and Shaq Evans were on the USC sideline as well, then with the team during conquest and even in the USC locker room after the game, odd as both are ND commits. The Irish can have Wood, Evans USC needs to still go after

John Martinez and Xavier Sua'Filo were both in town from Utah, some were saying that Martinez gave Pete his verbal today

Jamarkus McFarland and Alshon Jeffrey were also there on official visits though Jeffrey is already a verbal commit, McFarland is a big kid, he will be a nice add to the D line with the 2 kids from Arizona (Devon Kennard, Corey Adams) who are coming to LA to commit next weekend.



Was kind of a bummer that Notre Dame got that FG late in the game to blow the shutout but I think Pete and the team put on a pretty good show and a lot of these kids there on official and unofficial visits had a great time and look forward to joining the USC family, seems better than floundering with Charlie and the Choke-a-lot Factory for 4 or 5 years

[Terry in Crapchester]

How much did it burn the ND sheep to see Joe Montana walking around on USCs sideline all game? Apparently his son Nick who is an 11th grader at Oaks christian wants to go to USC, his older brother is already a student at USC.

Unless I missed something that happened very recently, Nate Montana (the oldest son) is a backup QB at ND.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... tana.0512/
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2008/0 ... otre-dame/
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2008-re ... -walk.html
http://und.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt ... ate00.html

I've heard that Nick (the second son) prefers USC.

As for your larger point, Ihonestly don't think Weis leaves this year, but I think he'll be on a very short leash next year. Failure to reach minimum expectations, which I would put at 10 wins and a BCS bid, probably would mean that he wouldn't be back in 2010.

[Killian]

Weis is gone. I'm pretty sure it will happen next Monday. Yes, I'm positive this will happen.

And Montana's oldest son is a walk-on QB at ND, as Terry pointed out.

Rumors are flying as to who the next coach at ND will be, but it will be no worse than Brian Kelly.

-Edit-

Remind me never to say that I'm positive about anything with Notre Dame. Their ability to fuck things up is beyond my belief.

[Screw_Michigan]

You guys could hire Jesus Christ himself as your next head coach and it still won't change the fact you guys will never be a top-tier team again because your academic standards are through the roof. Which is going to change first? Fans lowering football expectations or the school allowing marginally qualified football recruits to be admitted to the school?

[Killian]

You guys could hire Jesus Christ himself as your next head coach and it still won't change the fact you guys will never be a top-tier team again because your academic standards are through the roof. Which is going to change first? Fans lowering football expectations or the school allowing marginally qualified football recruits to be admitted to the school?

The academic standard myth for Notre Dame football is right up there with Duke basketball. There are a handfull of kids each year that ND cannot touch, that's it. That is one of the most overblown, inaccurate statements about Notre Dame.

Take a look at their players and the offers they had. Then look at the schedule ND has for the next few years. Now tell me how many wins the coaching staffs at USC, Alabama, Florida, etc. would have given those factors? It's shitty coaching, brought to you by a shitty administration.

[Screw_Michigan]

The academic standard myth for Notre Dame football is right up there with Duke basketball.

The big difference is we're talking 12 players for Duke basketball and 85-100 for ND football. Huge difference. Administrations will let 12 players slide, but close to 100? That's a stretch.

[Killian]

The academic standard myth for Notre Dame football is right up there with Duke basketball.

The big difference is we're talking 12 players for Duke basketball and 85-100 for ND football. Huge difference. Administrations will let 12 players slide, but close to 100? That's a stretch.

They're not letting 85 players slide. Neither are any of the other major schools. There are a few kids who can get in to the WVU's of the world that can't get into ND. If the ND football team were to apply for admission for ND under normal guidelines there would probably be only about 5 players that would get in. Same goes for UofM, USC, etc. Do you think Robert Hughes was at the top of his class? No. He might have been a 3.0 student and had an average ACT score.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

ND's '09 class is in the top 10 in recruiting.

Getting talent to ND isn't an issue. It's just getting a coaching staff that can DO something with that talent. Once ND finds that staff, I have no doubt they will be back.

[The Seer]

Ucla is the worst of the lot when it comes to admission standards. That's how SuC gets players with higher star rankings than SAT scores...

[Danimal]

Weis has proven ND can pull bigtime recruits, he just isn't getting the coaching side done.

The academic standards come into play but not to the extent Holtz claimed when looking for a scapegoat. IMO what ND needs to do is start redshirting, get more out of the talent they have.

I can't see Weis staying, ND has deep pockets, his buyout won't save him. Kelly would be a quality hire, he has won pretty quickly wherever he's went. Can't argue with those results.

[SoCalTrjn]

my bad on the older Montana kid, the lady in front of us was pointing out Joe and his wife on the USC sideline the whole game (even though our seats are on the enemy sideline) and saying that they must have been over there the whole game because their older son goes to SC. Her husband had an Oaks Christian hat on and kept pointing out all the OC players on the field and the ones still at OC that were on the sidelines.

All schools have lower admission standards for players than normal students, what plagues ND is the school isnt in a conference and is in a cold clmate, the fact that its in the middle of fricken nowhere doesnt help. Better players come from warmer climates and prefer to stay in them. Its a lot easier to talk a kid from somewhere cold to move to somewhere warm than it is the other way around

[SoCalTrjn]

unless it was a road game for Auburn

[SoCalTrjn]

when was the last time Tubbervilles Auburn team won a road OOC game?

[Screw_Michigan]

what plagues ND is the school isnt in a conference

While I WANT ND to join a league, I don't think being indie hurts them in the least, especially when they have the BCS and bowls deck stacked in their favor and can create a favorable schedule (see: 2009). Care to elaborate on this, tard?

Do the cold weather and middle of nowhere location hurt? Sure. No reason for a kid from from a warm climate to go to ND when every other major school is on TV every week.

[SoCalTrjn]

I will root against Notre Dame no matter who the opponent is. Only my hatred for LSU comes close

[Terry in Crapchester]

As Killian, Mgo and Danimal all have pointed out, ND is getting quality recruits even with their current academic standards. Are there football players at ND who never would've been admitted to the school had they not been football players? Sure, but there are any number of other schools about which that is also true.

Imho, academics does come into play with respect to football players at ND, but not so much in the recruiting/admissions process. Where it does come into play, imho, is once the kids actually get to the school. At ND, football players are expected to be in class, unless traveling for a game, and to graduate. On time. Not all of them do, of course, but the fact that ND has been at or near the top of student-athlete graduation rates since long before even I was a student, and not just the fencing and tennis teams, speaks volumes as to this fact. Not saying that ND's administration is perfect or even saintly -- far from it, in fact. But they do emphasize the importance of education for all students, and for the student-athletes in particular. And I'm also not saying that ND is alone among FBS schools in that regard, but we all know that there are many other schools which don't emphasize academics to that extent.

We all know that there are some prospects -- certainly not all, and probably not even a majority, but definitely some -- who think that a NFL career is, for them, a foregone conclusion, and that education is a waste of time, or at least unimportant. Those players simply won't be a good fit at ND, and most who do wind up at ND for whatever reason eventually will wash out.

Another way in which academics play a part at ND is in the redshirting process, as Danimal alluded. Case in point: it's been reported on this board, and I suspect elsewhere, that Crist is being redshirted this year. Technically, that's not true. What is happening is that the coaching staff is keeping him on the bench in order to preserve his eligibility for a retroactive redshirt in the future.

That may sound like nothing more than a technical difference, until you consider what Crist will have to do to get the redshirt down the road. No decision will be made until after the 2011 season. At that point, Crist will be invited back for a fifth year if: (a) the coaching staff wants him back (at this point, I'm assuming they will, regardless of who is coaching the team at that point); (b) he is on pace to graduate from ND in the spring of 2012; and (c) he is accepted into one of ND's graduate schools (granted, this requirement will be relatively easy for him to fulfill if he can fulfill the others). In short, no ballroom dancing course for Crist in his final year at ND.

I know of no other FBS school with a similar academic requirement for redshirting.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Do the cold weather and middle of nowhere location hurt? Sure. No reason for a kid from from a warm climate to go to ND when every other major school is on TV every week.

Hold on a minute here. Weren't you the one railing against ESPN getting the BCS because not everyone has cable TV?

Certainly you know that for most schools not named ND, ESPN plays a major role in their games getting on TV. Not saying that ND is never on the WWL, but due to their contract with NBC, they rely far less on the WWL for TV appearances than other schools do.

Also, most of the ABC/ESPN package is regionally televised. By contrast, ND's NBC deal is national. For example, I think we'd all agree that over the past five years or so, USC has been the dominant team in college football. Notwithstanding that fact, in my neck of the woods USC probably gets on TV maybe 3-4 times per season -- including the ND game and their bowl game. What ND's TV deal offers is the ability to recruit outside its region of the country. Few other schools can match that.

what plagues ND is the school . . .is in a cold clmate, the fact that its in the middle of fricken nowhere doesnt help. Better players come from warmer climates and prefer to stay in them. Its a lot easier to talk a kid from somewhere cold to move to somewhere warm than it is the other way around

Yeah, the cold weather is a drawback, but not as much of one as you think. The cold weather affects the social scene more than football -- cold weather affects maybe 1-2 home games per year, and ND always travels to a warm weather site (at least relative to ND) for Thanksgiving weekend.

ND has been able to get players from warm climates. Clausen, Crist and Armando Allen out front should have told you.

Besides, there are plenty of talent-rich cold weather locales. Off the top of my head, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio and the Chicago area come to mind. Yeah, ND faces stiff competition in all of those places, as well as warm-weather areas like California, Florida and Texas. But part of the beauty of being ND is that you don't need to lock down a particular state to do well. What you have to do is pull 2-3 kids, on average, out of each of those states per year, then fill in the holes in your class with the talent out of other states. That's pretty much been the (unofficial) recruiting policy of every ND coach in my memory, and you can't argue with the recruiting results for Weis (player development, OTOH, is a different matter). Granted, it didn't work out quite so well for other coaches (Willingham, Davie, and even Holtz in his later years at ND), but recruiting is a lot like salesmanship. As long as you have a good product to market -- and ND football, despite what the naysayers here have said, remains a good product -- it's more the product of effort than anything else.

As for ND being in the middle of nowhere, Chicago is only 90 miles away. Granted, South Bend is not exactly your typical college town, but the overwhelming majority of FBS schools are not nearly as close to a major media market.

[Killian]

Let's take a look at the ND starters:

QB- Clausen (California)
TB- Allen (Florida)
WR- Grimes (MI)
WR- Tate (Tennessee)
WR- Floyd (Minnesota)
TE- Rudolph (Ohio)
LT- Turkovich (Penn.)
LG- Olsen (New York)
C- Wenger (Florida)
RG- Stewart (Texas)
RT- Young (Florida)

So on offense, we have 6 players from warm weather states, 6 from cold weather states. Huge problem getting kids from warm weather states.

Let's look at defense:

LE- Kuntz (Indiana)
DT- Williams (Florida)
RE- Johnson (Oregon), Brown (PA), or Richardson (Georgia)
OLB- Smith (Tennessee)
MLB- Smith (Missouri)
MLB- Crum (Florida)
OLB- Neal (South Carolina)
CB- Lambert (CA) or Blanton (South Carolina)
SS- McCarthy (Ohio)
FS- Bruton (Ohio)
CB- McNeil (South Carolina)

So on defense, we have 6 or 7 starters from warm weather areas and the rest from cold.

Great call as usual, Schmicklovin.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Weis is gone. I'm pretty sure it will happen next Monday. Yes, I'm positive this will happen.

And Montana's oldest son is a walk-on QB at ND, as Terry pointed out.

Rumors are flying as to who the next coach at ND will be, but it will be no worse than Brian Kelly.

-Edit-

Remind me never to say that I'm positive about anything with Notre Dame. Their ability to fuck things up is beyond my belief.

Is it just your opinion that Weis will be gone, or have you heard something reliable about this?

It's hard to know what to believe. This provides a pretty compelling argument that, at least as a practical matter, Weis stays. For now, anyway.

Fwiw, this is the piece to which the ND Nation poster was responding. While I agree with the overall point that Weis should be fired, and that Kelly may be the best choice at this juncture, I obviously disagree with many of the assumptions the writer of that article has which underpin those conclusions.

For now, the only sure thing is that Weis is the coach until the Administration decides otherwise. If/when that happens, I'll know about it in short order.

[Killian]

As late as Saturday night after the game, I heard that it was a done deal and Weis was gone. Then I got some info yesterday that made it seem like a possibility that he could stay and just make massive assistant coaching changes.

All I know is this. The longer we go without hearing from Swarbrick or the ND SID, or the longer we go without a press release from ND, the better. If there is an announcement in the next 24-48 hours, it will be that Weis is being retained. If we hear nothing, he is very likely gone.

[Terry in Crapchester]

All I know is this. The longer we go without hearing from Swarbrick or the ND SID, or the longer we go without a press release from ND, the better. If there is an announcement in the next 24-48 hours, it will be that Weis is being retained. If we hear nothing, he is very likely gone.

This sounds a bit like a point somebody made on ND Nation today. If they're going to keep Weis, they need to give him an immediate vote of confidence. It has the potential to kill recruiting if they let him twist in the wind but ultimately decide to keep him.

Then again, given the decisions ND's Administration has made over the past 10-15 years, it wouldn't surprise me that they don't see it that way.

[SoCalTrjn]

Just heard that Weis' odds at being the Notre Dame coach next season are 50-50. Hope Carroll is calling all these recruits houses here on the west coast as soon as Cheesesteak leaves and telling them that jaba wont be coaching Notre Shame next year.

Also heard that Kelly is now the leading candidate for the Washington job. He is going to leave the Big East champ to go coach at a Pac 10 team that didnt win a game?

[.m2]

Jamarkus McFarland and Alshon Jeffrey were also there on official visits though Jeffrey is already a verbal commit, McFarland is a big kid, he will be a nice add to the D line with the 2 kids from Arizona (Devon Kennard, Corey Adams) who are coming to LA to commit next weekend.

I just got off the phone with one of my connections....


The #1 DE in the Country will be wearing blue and gold next fall.

Sorry you had to learn this way...


... also, Allen Bridgford is off the charts... and blowing away not only Mark Sanchez's records....but, is completely outplaying the #1 recruit in the country (Matt Barkley)


Bridgford sets passing record



Looks to be a good year for California.








the truth

[SoCalTrjn]

Uh Oh, if it came from your source, Pete better cancel the kids trip.

[.m2]

Uh Oh, if it came from your source, Pete better cancel the kids trip.

You know as well as I do... "high school" kids like to party with their friends.

Yes, Cal will snag your most sought after recruit... and the best qb in southern California and maybe the best player in the country.

Both of them...





the truth

[peter dragon]

the best qb in southern California
the truth

the best player in southern California lol is he also the best left handed vegan red head who has size 12 shoes and who like to drive the Chevy Tahoe? WTF? who claims they just signed the best QB in a certain part of a state? that's just weird.. .m2 shouldn't Cal get the best QB in the nation? or at least try to go after that QB?

nice QB throwing picks and all! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYVkPXyOjM

[Killian]

Just heard that Weis' odds at being the Notre Dame coach next season are 50-50. Hope Carroll is calling all these recruits houses here on the west coast as soon as Cheesesteak leaves and telling them that jaba wont be coaching Notre Shame next year.

Also heard that Kelly is now the leading candidate for the Washington job. He is going to leave the Big East champ to go coach at a Pac 10 team that didnt win a game?

Kelly has already turned down the UW job, and turned down the Tennessee job before it was offered to Kiffen.

[.m2]

Notre Dame keeping Weis...

http://notredame.scout.com/2/817609.html


epic fail







the truth

[Danimal]

Just heard that Weis' odds at being the Notre Dame coach next season are 50-50. Hope Carroll is calling all these recruits houses here on the west coast as soon as Cheesesteak leaves and telling them that jaba wont be coaching Notre Shame next year.

Also heard that Kelly is now the leading candidate for the Washington job. He is going to leave the Big East champ to go coach at a Pac 10 team that didnt win a game?

Kelly has already turned down the UW job, and turned down the Tennessee job before it was offered to Kiffen.

Seriously? I can see the UW job but Tenn? Doesn't make sense to me.

By the way, sux that CW will be staying for another season. Thought they had more sense, I guess they have a lot of faith in the recruiting.

[Laxplayer]

Well they have faith in the recruiting but several fans that I know have zero faith in CW. The schedule points for 10-11 wins next year and the only loss being $C however they'll probably lay a few eggs and then ND will be right back here again next year.

[Screw_Michigan]

I want to know, if ND is still able to pull all these 5-star recruiting classes and the talent is there, then why aren't the nation's best coaches bending over backwards to come to South Bend? And don't tell me it's because incompetent management hires the wrong people. The top coaches in the country don't want to coach at ND and that is a FACT.