Retracting this thread

[Q, West Coast Style]

Saw pictures of the kids on CNN. Like Jim McKay, somet things gotta bee off limits, even in here right?

Fear not, I haven't gotten completely soft, Asian guys getting lost in the Oregon Wilderness and over-ambitious climbers getting owned by Mt. Hood . . . still funny.

[ADAM]

Guess they don't give out "Duck & Cover" badges....

You know Mother Nature is pissed when she sees scout leaders blowing lil scouts.....

[PSUFAN]

They were not prepared

I just read the article, clicked in here, and then read that - laughed out loud.

[BSmack]

This was God's punishment for allowing gays in Iowa.

sin

Reverend Hagee

[Mister Bushice]

Before the Mormons took over, the boy scouts probably played twister.

Fuck those assholes. At least the R.C. scout leaders only left emotional death in their destructive path.

[Dinsdale]

Bad week to be a Scout.

GLADSTONE, Ore. - An 11-year-old boy floating the Clackamas River with members of his Boy Scout Troop drowned Saturday after his canoe capsized near High Rocks Park, authorities said.

The Clackamas County Sheriff's Office identified the boy as Finn Terry of northeast Portland.

According to the sheriff's office, the scouts from Troop 107 were floating in several canoes from Barton Park to Clackamette Park Saturday when the canoe occupied by both the 11-year-old and a man capsized near the Interstate 205 bridge about 5:30 p.m. Both the man and the boy, who were wearing life jackets, were swept downstream in the 43-degree water.

Other boaters as well as American Medical Response lifeguards on duty in the area tried to rescue the pair. The man was pulled to safety while the boy went underwater and never surfaced, the sheriff's office said.

"The current was just too strong and swift," one of the lifeguards was quoted as saying.

The boy's body was later recovered in the area.

Authorities speculated that debris in the water or the hydraulics in this section of the river may have contributed to causing the boy's death.

"The water's just way too rough, way too fast, way too cold," said Gladstone Fire Chief John Figini.

Steve Terry, the boy's father, described his son Sunday as "a budding poet, a dreamer, a baseball player, a scout, a dancer, an actor and a sweet, sweet boy."

Be Prepared...

To die.


Taking a canoe down the Clack at any time is pretty much a death-wish. Taking a canoe down the Clack during the big rush of the much-higher-than-usual mountain snowpack (very late this year), is beyond the scope of any sort of reasonable thinking. The rapid they ate it on is a bitch any time, and people are always getting yanked out of it. With the high flows, a little kid didn't stand much of a chance in 43 degree water. I'm pretty hardcore, but only way I'm launching a Clack Attack right now is in a driftboat.

The adults supervising were grossly negligent.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Say "hello" to Pre-purchase and Quadrillion, boys.

Soar with the eagle scouts...

[War Wagon]

This was God's punishment for having voted for Obama in Iowa.

Fixed.

And judging by all the flooding occuring in addition to tornadoes, God must be really pissed.

Btw, anybody seen Mace lately?

[_Porter_]

Taking a canoe down the Clack during the big rush of the much-higher-than-usual mountain snowpack (very late this year), is beyond the scope of any sort of reasonable thinking. The rapid they ate it on is a bitch any time, and people are always getting yanked out of it. With the high flows, a little kid didn't stand much of a chance in 43 degree water. I'm pretty hardcore, but only way I'm launching a Clack Attack right now is in a driftboat.

The adults supervising were grossly negligent.

RACK! Anyone who's ever lived near a river fed by snowmelt knows that you stay the fuck away until the river has calmed down. If that family wasn't new to the area, the father should do us all a favor and go on solo-runs down the rapids until the river finishes what it started.

I especially can't believe that they went out in 43 degree water. If something were to happen, like a capsized canoe, any of the kids that went in the water would have a kickass case of hypothermia by the time they could get to shore. Even if they did get a kid to dry land, they'd have no way to get him warmed up, which pretty much ensures that someone was going to die on this trip no matter what.

[smackaholic]

5 minutes in 43 degree water ain't gonna be fun, but, it ain't gonna kill a healthy kid. And I am guessing that the sun would do a good enough job of warming him. Big water on the other hand will kill you fukking dead, no matter what temp it is.

If you are in rapids that will suck you down with a vest on, you had better be a damn good canoer, in a big safe raft or have fukking gills.

Too bad it was the kid that bought it rather than the idiot alledged adults.

[_Porter_]

5 minutes in 43 degree water ain't gonna be fun, but, it ain't gonna kill a healthy kid. And I am guessing that the sun would do a good enough job of warming him.

Uh, no, it won't. You ever had hypothermia? I have and it fucking sucks. It took me a good half hour in the car with the heater on full blast to get my body back up to temp and I didn't even get wet!

Five minutes in 43 degree water would drop a kid's body temp a hell of a lot more than a few degrees, which is all it takes to go into shock. I'd love to see Scoutmaster Smackaholic pull a kid out of the Clackamas and tell him to go stand in the sun for awhile and he'd be fine. Seeing an adult get f-bombed by a pre-pubescent kid is always $$$.

[Dinsdale]

5 minutes in 43 degree water ain't gonna be fun, but, it ain't gonna kill a healthy kid.

Yes and no.

43 is freaking cold. Under 55 degrees, you have about 30 seconds of heavy physical exertion, then you're done. I don't care what kinda tough-guy you are, it's an involuntary reaction.


I kinda called bullpoo when my rescue-worker bud rolled that stat out. Shortly thereafter, I came out of a raft in ~51 degree water (very warm day), got pulled down the tongue into the main chute, and was stuck in the current (without any of that pussyassed floatation stuff)... got... ohhhh, right about 30 seconds before the arms and legs barely would move. Not something you have control of. I T-Rex armed it out of the current eventually, and all was good.

The catch is, when it gets down to 43, when you suddenly hit the water, you also often get an involuntary gasp... just how the body works. And often, this involuntary gasp results in a lungful of water.


Get the lungful of water in a hydraulic...

You're done. Diver fodder.

And 43 isn't quite cold enough to "preserve" you buy sending you into shock instantaniously, which buys you extra no-oxygen-to-the-brain time.

[Tom In VA]

tongue into the main chute

Was she hot ?

[Dinsdale]

Was she hot ?

The heavy gushing chute flowed into a big riffle, and eventually became slick.



Gotta love that river terminology.

[PSUFAN]

Call Filthy to the podium at the riverbank, please.

[Tom In VA]

He might be busy on the Big Muddy right now PSUFAN.

[smackaholic]

OK, 5 minutes might be a bit long in water that cold and yes it will numb you up pretty good. So yes, it will take somebody to drag your helpless ass out. And I never said you wouldn't be shivering like a mofo when you got out.

As for your core temp dropping much in that time, I think a healthy, active 100 lb, give er' take a few kid isn't going to be affected a whole lot.

That being said, I never have been all the way in water that cold, but, I have been in it up to my nads helping to retrieve a canoe that others who did go all the way in bailed out of. Nobody got hypothermia, cept maybe my nuts. Brrrrrrrrr.

[Dinsdale]

OK, 5 minutes might be a bit long in water that cold and yes it will numb you up pretty good. So yes, it will take somebody to drag your helpless ass out.

And when the victim is unable to move and is pinned in a hydraulic, exactly how do you propose this good samaritan is going to do that?

By diving in the 43 degree water?


Two words -- "dry suit"