The Best Closer in Baseball nobody has heard of

[War Wagon]

That would be Joakim Soria.

Has yet to allow a run in 13 appearances, picking up 8 saves.

Has allowed only 3 hits in 42 at bats, a paltry .071 batting average.

Has given up only one base on balls while striking out 13.

This guy is, as they say, the Real Deal. Move over Mariano Rivera, there's a new kid in town.

[fix]

Speaking of the lights out pitching. Best keep the name Jesse Carlton in the backs of your minds. For a rookie, this kid is locked in.

Anyone noticed the Jays rotation over the past week or so..

In the last eight games, Toronto starters have posted a 1.22 earned-run average, giving up just 11 runs and walking only 13 over 59 innings. As a group, the pitching staff sports a 3.37 ERA on the season.

[Screw_Michigan]

Speaking of the lights out pitching. Best keep the name Jesse Carlton in the backs of your minds. For a rookie, this kid is locked in.

Anyone noticed the Jays rotation over the past week or so..

In the last eight games, Toronto starters have posted a 1.22 earned-run average, giving up just 11 runs and walking only 13 over 59 innings. As a group, the pitching staff sports a 3.37 ERA on the season.

don't get too excited, half of those games were against the impotent pale hose lineup.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Move over Mariano Rivera, there's a new kid in town.

Who???

You mean, move over 'Riverdance' Papelbon, right?

I, for one, have heard of Soria. Then again, I can name all 25 Royals on the roster and then some. (I am in 12 team AL-Only Fantasy League) He was a nice waiver wire pick-up last year when Dotel sucked ass and was shipped to the ATL.

So, Wags, let's talk Royals. Why is 38 year old Grudzielanek still the starting 2B and Callaspo and his .350 average rides the pine? I know he was brought through the system as a 3B, but he won't displace Gordon anytime soon. We (by we, I mean, me who loves his eligibility at 2b, ss, and 3B) need him out there every day. WTF??

Furthermore, what exactly went wrong with Ryan Shealy? Do you think his numbers and expectations got inflated at Coors?

[War Wagon]

You mean, move over 'Riverdance' Papelbon, right?

Him too. My 2nd pitcher drafted, right after Beckett. I mention Rivera due to his longevity and setting the bar so high for a young closer to live up to.

I, for one, have heard of Soria. Then again, I can name all 25 Royals on the roster and then some. (I am in 12 team AL-Only Fantasy League) He was a nice waiver wire pick-up last year when Dotel sucked ass and was shipped to the ATL.

Nice waiver wire pick-up? He's been nothing short of phenomenal! Wait, you meant fantasy waiver wire... Royals actually snaggged him in the Rule 5 draft, whatever the hell that is. I knew at one time, but memory fails. Suffice to say the guy has been one helluva pick-up. There's talk of making him a starter one of these days, as that's what he did in the Mexican league, but I say why mess with perfection? Well, there is the little matter of KC not giving him all that many save opportunities thus far, but let's hope that changes.

So, Wags, let's talk Royals. Why is 38 year old Grudzielanek still the starting 2B and Callaspo and his .350 average rides the pine? I know he was brought through the system as a 3B, but he won't displace Gordon anytime soon. We (by we, I mean, me who loves his eligibility at 2b, ss, and 3B) need him out there every day. WTF??

Grudz is just a gamer that any manager loves to have on his team. A hard nosed player, and they miss his leadership when he's not out there. It has more to do with chemistry than numbers. As for Callaspo, decent player but the jury remains out on whether he's an everyday guy. Probably not this year. You're right, Gordon isn't going anywhere. Better chance of taking Pena's SS position, since Pena can't even hit his weight. But Pena's got such a damn good glove he sorta' makes up for it, I guess.

Furthermore, what exactly went wrong with Ryan Shealy? Do you think his numbers and expectations got inflated at Coors?

I have no idea. Never really saw much out of Shealy, but yeah... it won't be the first player to have left Colorado to fall on his ass elsewhere.

[Nixhex]

Rockies that fell on their ass at other teams rings a bell here. Sup' Pop Up Perez. That guy was one big steaming pile of shit from day one.

Wags, speaking of pitchers to look out for you should pay attention to Max Scherzer down in Arizona. He's a former Missouri Tiger that just got called up recently. The kid can deal.

[War Wagon]

Hell, I've been all over Mad Max and had my waiver request in only to get punked by some lucky fuck one slot ahead of me. Don't think I'm not aware of what former Mizzou players are doing. Ian Kinsler is another guy I drafted but dropped in favor of Pedroia.

[TheJON]

Soria may not only be the best closer no one's heard of, he just might be the best closer.....period. Good fastball with great movement, incredible slow curve, can throw multiple pitches for strikes. According to John Buck, we haven't seen his full arsenal of pitches because he hasn't needed it.

We're talking about one of the biggest steals ever from the Rule 5 draft. I really think he needs to become a starter. He's a strike thrower with a plethora of above average pitches and his value would be higher as a starter. Don't get me wrong, the closer role is important but he's a guy I think is capable of pitching 7-8 solid innings consistently.

Send him down to Omaha for a few starts so he can work his arm into starter shape and then call him back up and put him in Tomko's role and move him to the bullpen. Put Ramirez in the closer role and keep Nunez in the setup role. I think the overall pitching staff would be better with Soria in the rotation than the closer role.

[Shoalzie]

Soria is off to a nice start but I'd still take Jenks and Nathan out of the Central over him.

Hard to believe there are still 5 closers who have yet to give up an earned run. Lidge, Rivera, Wagner, Ryan along with Soria have at least 5 saves and maintain a perfect 0.00 ERA. Nathan's only yielded one earned run in a non-save situation against Texas from a Josh Hamilton solo home run. Other than that, he's been perfect. At the other end of the spectrum, you have guys like Isringhausen, Jones, Wood, Hoffman, Gagne, Corpas and Valverde...guys who have allowed more earned runs than they have saves.

[War Wagon]

Soria is off to a nice start but I'd still take Jenks and Nathan out of the Central over him.

Maybe that's why you're in 9th place in our Yahoo league. :wink:

[fix]

In the future before I post about how well the Jays pitching has been performing, someone remind me to punch myself in the nuts first.

TIA...

Paging Season Over Troll... please pick up the whiteflag phone...

Fuck.

[RevLimiter]

Soria is off to a nice start but I'd still take Jenks and Nathan out of the Central over him.

After what this dude's done to your lineup the last two nights ALONE do you still hold that opnion?

[War Wagon]

As a Royals fan, I haven't seen anything like this since Dan Quisenberry. That guy who you just knew when he came in, the game was over.

The guy is just sick with his pitching, and can play some defense as well.

[Shoalzie]

He doesn't throw all that hard...keeps the ball down and doesn't look like he relies on the strike out to get his saves. I think most fans would prefer efficiency over flash although it puts more butts in the seats.

[TheJON]

Umm.....the strikeout is a huge part of Soria's game. He has 93 strikeouts in 85 1/3 career innings. Just because you don't throw a 98 MPH fastball doesn't mean you can't consistently strike guys out.

Soria has great movement on his pitches. He has a good lively fastball that runs 89-93. He throws one of the best slow curves I have ever seen. He can locate all of his pitches well, he mixes his pitches up and dude keeps hitters off balance and guessing.

I've never seen a closer have such great command of the strike zone and be able to consistently locate pitches like he does. Ever since he came off the DL in June last year he has virtually been unhittable. I don't know if I've ever seen a closer retire 23 straight batters and Soria has done that twice in less than 2 full big league seasons.

10-10 in saves, a 0.00 ERA and dude has given up just 7 base runners in 16 1/3 innings this year. That's insane. I don't care how little experience he has, he's the best closer right now in the game of baseball. But I don't care what anyone says, this guy needs to be in the rotation. Having a guy like that pitching 1 inning every couple of days is flat out dumb, I don't care if he's the greatest closer ever. The closer role is very important but certain guys (like Soria) have more value as a starter and should be in the rotation. Smoltz was a great closer for Atlanta but he was always more valuable to them as a starter. If you have a guy that's got Ace material and you don't have him in the rotation regardless of what he's doing as a reliever your organization is just plain stupid.

[War Wagon]

No way, Jon. I love your take on this, but you don't fix what ain't broke. The Royals starting rotation is pretty deece as is. You need that guy in the bullpen. You WANT that guy in the 9th inning.

Trust me on this.

[RevLimiter]

No way, Jon. I love your take on this, but you don't fix what ain't broke. The Royals starting rotation is pretty deece as is. You need that guy in the bullpen. You WANT that guy in the 9th inning.

Trust me on this.

x2....what the Royals REALLY need is for the bats to come alive on a consistent basis. We can't count on the Tiggers to come in town every other series, ya know?

[TheJON]

The rotation is okay, but not great. Put Soria there and you make it great. I just don't think guys with his stuff belong in the bullpen. Closer role is important but you can groom Ramirez or Nunez to take over that role. I think in a year either of those guys will be capable of handling that role effectively enough.

Bannister and Greinke are very good starters. Hochevar is showing signs of becoming a good pitcher. But after that there's not a lot of depth. Meche has been inexcuseably pathetic this year and I don't think we'll ever see him have an ERA as low as he had last year. In the minors there's really not a lot of great prospects other than Cortez and Rosa.

I just think the bullpen could still be good without Soria and by moving Soria to the rotation we'd be making it great.

Great rotation, solid bullpen
OR
Average rotation, great bullpen??

I'll take the first one. It's a lot tougher to find an Ace of the staff than it is to find a quality closer. I'm not diminishing the importance of the closer role, I'm just saying when you have a guy with potential Ace material, you don't put him in the pen.

[fix]

Speaking of the lights out pitching. Best keep the name Jesse Carlton in the backs of your minds. For a rookie, this kid is locked in.

Anyone noticed the Jays rotation over the past week or so..

In the last eight games, Toronto starters have posted a 1.22 earned-run average, giving up just 11 runs and walking only 13 over 59 innings. As a group, the pitching staff sports a 3.37 ERA on the season.

don't get too excited, half of those games were against the impotent pale hose lineup.

Okay, then how about over the month of May?
The Jays are 14-4 since winning the second game of a doubleheader on May 12.

They have the best ERA in MLB.

* Of course I fully expect that tonight, like every other time I post something like this about how great the Jays pitching staff is, they immediately go out and get pounded*

[Dinsdale]

Smoltz was a great closer for Atlanta but he was always more valuable to them as a starter.

Why did they put him in the bully anyway?


Oh, that's right -- because he tore up his arm starting and going long innings.

And when he returns from the latest stint as a gimp, Smoltzy will probably be the closer again.

Light coming on yet?

As a baseball fan, whenever my thoughts start going to "Such and Such manager is crazy, So and So should be starting/long relief/closing, I try to remember the manager (probably) knows a fuckload about his pitchers' abilities and weaknesses, and where they best fit into that team's strategy.

Yes, I realize it's something of a leap-of-faith on my part.

Had this conversation over the weekend about Smoltzy (one of my all-time favorite players... a better "gamer" youll never see). I thought if his innings needed some trimming, what an incredile asset he'd be in long relief. Cant think of a better insurance policy against your regular starter having an off day than having Smoltz sitting behind him, ready to pounce. My buddy thought he was better suited to go back to closer, with the idea that bringing that dort of firepower to the closer role was money, and as a closer, he could go 4 innings in 4 consecutive days, instead of 4 innings every 3rd day


I believe there's a shitload more that goes into that decision that just what role needs filling -- the individaul pitcher's ability to work consecutive days and all those things play a major part.


So I begrudgingly try and withhold judgement, and let the dude who gets paid 7-figures to watch from the front row make those decisions.


Although I'd have Smoltzy as my long reliever any day.

[jiminphilly]

Smoltz was a great closer for Atlanta but he was always more valuable to them as a starter.

Why did they put him in the bully anyway?


Oh, that's right -- because he tore up his arm starting and going long innings.

And when he returns from the latest stint as a gimp, Smoltzy will probably be the closer again.

Light coming on yet?

As a baseball fan, whenever my thoughts start going to "Such and Such manager is crazy, So and So should be starting/long relief/closing, I try to remember the manager (probably) knows a fuckload about his pitchers' abilities and weaknesses, and where they best fit into that team's strategy.

Yes, I realize it's something of a leap-of-faith on my part.

Had this conversation over the weekend about Smoltzy (one of my all-time favorite players... a better "gamer" youll never see). I thought if his innings needed some trimming, what an incredile asset he'd be in long relief. Cant think of a better insurance policy against your regular starter having an off day than having Smoltz sitting behind him, ready to pounce. My buddy thought he was better suited to go back to closer, with the idea that bringing that dort of firepower to the closer role was money, and as a closer, he could go 4 innings in 4 consecutive days, instead of 4 innings every 3rd day


I believe there's a shitload more that goes into that decision that just what role needs filling -- the individaul pitcher's ability to work consecutive days and all those things play a major part.


So I begrudgingly try and withhold judgement, and let the dude who gets paid 7-figures to watch from the front row make those decisions.


Although I'd have Smoltzy as my long reliever any day.

Smoltz won't be relieving anything but his bladder for the rest of the season..

ATLANTA -- John Smoltz knew the pain was too intense to keep pitching this season.

Now, the Atlanta Braves right-hander hopes to add one more comeback to his remarkable career.

Smoltz will undergo season-ending surgery on his ailing right shoulder next week, but the 41-year-old is not ready to concede that his next move will be retirement.

"I've pulled off a lot of miracles," Smoltz said Wednesday at a hastily called news conference before the Braves' game against the Florida Marlins. "I probably shouldn't have played this long. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can extend it."

The only pitcher in baseball history with 200 wins and 150 saves already has returned from four operations on his elbow, but it's highly improbable for someone his age to come back from a major procedure.

No wonder the news conference took on the tenor of a retirement announcement.

"This is a sad day for us in many ways," general manager Frank Wren said. "We don't know the outcome of the surgery, whether it will allow him to come back and pitch, or just allow him to go on with his life."

Still, Smoltz has defied the odds before.

"It wouldn't surprise me if he came back as a left-handed pitcher," said Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez, a former Braves coach.



Now that he's headed for shoulder surgery, it could mean the end of John Smoltz's likely Hall of Fame career, Jayson Stark writes. Story

Smoltz's shoulder began hurting nearly a year ago during a start in Milwaukee. He's been on the disabled list three times since then and tried all sorts of radical solutions to cope with the pain.

He came up with a new routine at spring training, spending most of his time on the back fields pitching against minor leaguers. When the discomfort persisted through his first five starts, he decided to return to the closer role he held from 2001 to 2004, believing that fewer innings would help him get through the season.

But one inning against the Marlins on Monday night convinced him that it was futile to continue.

"I certainly was prepared for it. I never had two days in a row where I felt good," Smoltz said. "I realized it the next day. Actually, I realized an hour afterward that the pain was just too great and I couldn't continue."

Initially, the injury was diagnosed as severe inflammation; Smoltz isn't sure what the real problem is. He'll put his future in the hands of Dr. James Andrews, the noted sports surgeon who will perform the arthroscopic procedure in Birmingham, Ala.


From Start to Finish

John Smoltz's career can be compared with that of Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley, who also began primarily as a starter, then moved to the bullpen.

Eckersley Smoltz
Wins 197 210
Saves 390 154
ERA 3.50 3.26
K's per 9 IP 6.6 8.0

"We won't know until they get in there," Smoltz said. "I'm sure when I wake up, the first question I'll ask is, 'What did you find?' I'll have no problem with whatever they tell me."

If nothing else, he's hoping for a better quality of life. Smoltz said it's been difficult to sleep, play with his children or just do ordinary chores around the house because of his aching shoulder.

"We're talking about enjoying life a little bit more than I've been able to enjoy it," he said. "It's very difficult. A shoulder is like a lower back problem; it puts you in a pretty bad mood. You use your shoulder for everything."

After those five starts -- in which he became the 16th pitcher in history to reach 3,000 strikeouts -- Smoltz hoped to make it through the rest of the season as a closer, using a new three-quarters throwing motion. He came off the disabled list Monday and immediately got a chance for his first save since 2004.

He couldn't hold a 4-3 lead, giving up three hits and two runs. Smoltz said his poor outing had nothing to do with the decision to have surgery.

"If I had struck out the side, we would still be having this press conference," he said. "It was just too much."

His loss is a huge blow to an Atlanta team already dealing with a rash of injuries to its pitching staff. The Braves went into Wednesday's game 3½ games behind Philadelphia in the NL East.

"Not having him at all for the rest of the season is devastating, flat out devastating," third baseman Chipper Jones said. "Going into this season, I said there's one guy on this club we cannot do without. That's John Smoltz."

The Braves already lost Peter Moylan for the season; Mike Hampton has yet to pitch in a game after suffering yet another injury; and Mike Gonzalez is still on the mend from elbow surgery that kept him out most of 2007. Still, Atlanta has the NL's lowest team ERA with a 3.58.

"We have a lot of good pitching on this team," manager Bobby Cox said. "You never replace a Hall of Famer. You just can't do it. But we can put guys in there who can help us win."

Smoltz won the NL Cy Young Award in 1996 and has more postseason wins (15) than any other pitcher.

But he's been plagued by injuries throughout his 21-year career. Smoltz had his first elbow operation after a strike ended the 1994 season, and another arthroscopic procedure limited him to 26 starts in 1998.

Then, he missed the entire 2000 season recovering from Tommy John ligament replacement surgery. After experiencing a setback, Smoltz switched to the bullpen midway through the following season, believing it would relieve the stress on his elbow.

He had 154 saves during his three-plus seasons as the closer, including an NL-record 55 in 2002.

Then, after yet another arthroscopic operation on his elbow, another change.

Deciding that pitching every fifth day would be better for his arm, Smoltz returned to the starting rotation. He pulled off the unprecedented move, going 44-24 the past three seasons. But the shoulder began hurting during a May 29, 2007, start at the Milwaukee, and the pain never went away.

Smoltz began this season on the DL, then pitched extremely well in his first four starts. But he lasted only four innings against the New York Mets on April 27, giving up seven hits and four runs.

That would be his final start of the season -- and possibly the last one of his career.

If Smoltz's career is over, he has no complaints. He got to spend his entire big league career with one team, and nearly all of it playing for the same manager.

"I gave it everything I had every single time I went out there," he said. "Whether I was 70 percent or 100 percent, I gave it everything I had."

[Bizzarofelice]

a closer pitches one inning, and it isn't necesarily against the opposing team's best hitters.

who gives a fat fuck about closers. the middle reliever who comes in to put out a fire the starter has begun is far more valuable.

[trev]

a closer pitches one inning, and it isn't necesarily against the opposing team's best hitters.

who gives a fat fuck about closers. the middle reliever who comes in to put out a fire the starter has begun is far more valuable.

Nobodies bitin'.