What a finish....

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:21 am

For once the event lived up to the hype.

Woods and Mickelson down to the wire-first to flinch loses

Phil, you made it interesting but until you beat him in a situation like that, you're still Tiger's bitch.

So much for Doral being a throwaway tournament.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:02 am

I loved what Tiger said about the Ford GT he won.

"Oh, that's Stevie's car."

You know Buick has to be lovin it.

As for the golf, this was the best one on one matchup in a stroke play event I've seen since Hal Sutton stood up to Tiger at the Players a few years back. In fact, Hal is still one of the very few players to stand up to Tiger when Tiger had his A Game on and ready. Props to Lefty for trying, but I've got to agree with Felix. In fact, so does Lefty. His refusal to talk to NBC right after the round spoke volumes. And Lefty's performance in the post round press conference left no doubt that he considered beating Tiger head to head a HUGE career accomplishment.

Well, the next time they face off is in the Players. By that time Tiger might well have taken home his 5th Bay Hill sword. If Lefty can consistently step up to Tiger, this could well be the best golf season yet.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:24 pm

Nuff Said.

fix · Post by **fix** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:05 am

So Lefty choked again?

:shocker:

Tiger's in his head... deep.

There's always one player that no matter how well you play on any given day, that person will still find a way to beat you.

I'm hoping for a season where it's not just all about Mickelson and Woods.
Els, Vijay, Weir and a host of others battling each other is far more entertaining than seeing the networks swoon over the same two week in and week out.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:50 am

Otis...my Man...

you can't say that Lefty Choked.

Lefty had 3 lip-outs....he answered the EAGLE with 2 Birdies in-a-row.

they BOTH clusterfukked the 16th....then Eldrick made the LONG putt on 17.

it was 2 GREAT PLayers playing at the Highest Level.

both of them WON from the experience.

the Rest of the "near' Season should be interesting.

Back Nine @ Augusta...can't WAIT!

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:30 pm

Otis wrote:So Lefty choked again?

:shocker:

I'm sorry, but shooting 4 round in the 60's is not a choke. Had Mickelson shot 75 or so in the final round, then that would qualify as a choke. Bottom line is that Tiger played a better round.

Should make for an interesting Masters this year since Phile and Tiger are seemingly on top of their games.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:48 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:I'm sorry, but shooting 4 round in the 60's is not a choke. Had Mickelson shot 75 or so in the final round, then that would qualify as a choke. Bottom line is that Tiger played a better round.

Should make for an interesting Masters this year since Phile and Tiger are seemingly on top of their games.

What people are also tending to forget is that Phil's final score would have also broken the old tournament record. Lefty played some damn solid golf and came up one stroke short to the best player who has ever lived, who was also playing at the top of his game. That the rest of the field was an afterthought on the back nine speaks volumes to the caliber of play exhibited by both Tiger and Mickelson.

That being said, the test is to see whether Lefty can bounce back and maintain his early season form at Sawgrass and Augusta. And even bigger test will be Pinehurst #2. I'm sure more than a few ghosts are lingering there. You have to wonder how Phil will react to that statue of Payne rippng his heart out on the 18th green.

fix · Post by **fix** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:07 pm

So taking a 2 shot lead into the final round and failing to finish the deal is not considered a choke anymore?

Okay then....

Mickelson had a chance to put Woods away until he missed a 10-foot birdie putt on the 15th, and a 5-footer for par on the 16th after Woods already had made bogey.

They went head to head and even the most loyal of Mickelchokson's supporters must have had a gut feeling that he would somehow find a way to end up one the losing end of the stick.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:25 pm

Otis wrote:So taking a 2 shot lead into the final round and failing to finish the deal is not considered a choke anymore?

It is a good point, but the guy shot in the 60's in every round. As bsmack point out, Phil would have shot the tournament record, had he no been playing against the current best player in the world and one of the best of all time.

Not making any excuses for Phil because he had his chances. From what I have seen from him so far this season he has to be the favorite to repeat at Augusta this year.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:37 pm

BSmack wrote:Lefty played some damn solid golf and came up one stroke short to the best player who has ever lived, who was also playing at the top of his game.

Bobby Jones?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:50 pm

Mr T wrote:
BSmack wrote:Lefty played some damn solid golf and came up one stroke short to the best player who has ever lived, who was also playing at the top of his game.
Bobby Jones?

Bobby Jones was a part time player who wasn't even the best player of his own time. That would be Walter Hagen.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:53 pm

And who did Walter Hagen believe was the best player of all-time?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:09 pm

Mr T wrote:And who did Walter Hagen believe was the best player of all-time?

If he was being modest, he should have said Sarazen.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:14 pm

Was Michael Jordan better than Wilt Chamberlain?

Or, are comparisons impossible because they played in different eras, and the game changed between their tenures?

I never spent any time watching Bobby Jones play in his prime. Nor did I see much of Jack. Or Arnie.

I'm going with "I don't know" on this one.

But, if there ever was a better player than Tiger, who I have watched quite a bit, then RACK the hell out of that badass.

That shot on 16 on saturday was......well, it will probably go down in the history books as "The Drive." Tiger is going to have to hire a second caddie, just to cart around his balls.

Sick sick sick.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:11 pm

Dinsdale wrote: But, if there ever was a better player than Tiger, who I have watched quite a bit, then RACK the hell out of that badass.

Give those greats the technology Tiger has while still in their prime and you would be racking the hell out of them.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:18 pm

Mr T wrote:
Dinsdale wrote: But, if there ever was a better player than Tiger, who I have watched quite a bit, then RACK the hell out of that badass.
Give those greats the technology Tiger has while still in their prime and you would be racking the hell out of them.

Give Tiger the thin fields those greats faced and he'd have 60+ wins and over 10 majors by now.

fix · Post by **fix** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:52 pm

Mr T wrote:
Dinsdale wrote: But, if there ever was a better player than Tiger, who I have watched quite a bit, then RACK the hell out of that badass.
Give those greats the technology Tiger has while still in their prime and you would be racking the hell out of them.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.
I was watching the U.S Open from 1972 on a flashback golf show last night and it was played at Pebble Beach.
Nobody was under par there and the winning score turned out to be Nicklaus with a 290.

Woods won the same tourney played at the same course in 2000 and beat Nicklaus's score by 18 shots.
Tiger is a freak sure, but he's not 18 shots better than Jack talent wise.

1990 Hale Irwin1 280 Medinah C.C.
1991 Payne Stewart1 282 Hazeltine
1992 Tom Kite 285 Pebble Beach
1993 Lee Janzen 272 Baltusrol
1994 Ernie Els 279 Oakmont
1995 Corey Pavin 280 Shinnecock Hills
1996 Steve Jones 278 Oakland Hills
1997 Ernie Els 276 Congressional C.C.
1998 Lee Janzen 280 Olympic Country Club
1999 Payne Stewart 279 Pinehurst
2000 Tiger Woods 272 Pebble Beach
2001 Retief Goosen 276 Southern Hills
2002 Tiger Woods 277 Bethpage Black
2003 Jim Furyk 272 Olympia Fields
2004 Retief Goosen 276 Shinnecock Hills

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:28 am

Otis wrote:There's a lot of truth in that statement.
I was watching the U.S Open from 1972 on a flashback golf show last night and it was played at Pebble Beach. Nobody was under par there and the winning score turned out to be Nicklaus with a 290.

Woods won the same tourney played at the same course in 2000 and beat Nicklaus's score by 18 shots. Tiger is a freak sure, but he's not 18 shots better than Jack talent wise.

When Tiger played the US Open at Pebble he was the ONLY player under par for 72 holes. There's more to it than just comparing the same course 28 years apart. If Tiger Woods wasn't playing better than Jack, did the rest of the field suddenly become 18 strokes WORSE than Jack?

I'm not sure that anybody is willing to hand the title Greatest Golfer Ever from Jack to Tiger JUST yet, but Tiger Woods would have absolutely demolished 99% of the fields guys like Jones, Hagen, Nelson and Sneed played against. The guys who were top players had so much of an advantage in those days over even middle tier PGA pros it wasn't even funny. And, their records reflect that.

For starters, can you imagine a guy like Claude Harmon in today's golf world? All he did was win a Masters. Yet playing golf on the Tour did so little for him financialy that he still worked as the Pro at Winged Foot for the rest of his working days. In fact, most PGA pros back then had to supplement their income from the Tour. The greats were able to sign endorsement deals. The not so greats had to scramble and scrape the best they could. Most were club pros, which meant they could not devote every waking hour to the improvement of their own game. Instead, they had to make time to improve the games of their club members.

fix · Post by **fix** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:38 am

Alright then how about this comparison then..

Nicklaus about the 17th hole, Final round 1972 Open wrote:The 17th at Pebble plays back out to the Pacific Ocean, which generally puts the wind directly in your face. As I recall, I had 219 yards to the pin, so I selected a 1-iron, which I needed every bit of to get to the hole.

A freak'n 1-iron.

Now ask yourself what club wood Tiger need to hit the same shot today.. 5-iron?

I mean he did hit "The Shot of 2000" — Tiger Woods' 218-yard 6-iron from a fairway bunker on the 18th hole at Glen Abbey.. And if you remember that shot, it was all carry over water.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:47 am

Otis wrote:Alright then how about this comparison then..

Nicklaus about the 17th hole, Final round 1972 Open wrote:The 17th at Pebble plays back out to the Pacific Ocean, which generally puts the wind directly in your face. As I recall, I had 219 yards to the pin, so I selected a 1-iron, which I needed every bit of to get to the hole.
A freak'n 1-iron.

Now ask yourself what club wood Tiger need to hit the same shot today.. 5-iron?

I mean he did hit "The Shot of 2000" — Tiger Woods' 218-yard 6-iron from a fairway bunker on the 18th hole at Glen Abbey.. And if you remember that shot, it was all carry over water.

That shot would be into the wind, so I'm guessing that Tiger would go with a knockdown 3 iron. If it were calm, he'd hit 4 iron and if the wind was blowing out, you might even see a 5 iron or 6 in his hands.

Yes, I remember The Shot of 2000. And I am aware the distances have changed. You may also remember Bobby Jones, speaking of Jack saying "he plays a game of which I am not familiar".

Not for nothing, they have also increased the length of the courses, the speeds of the greens and the severity of the rough. In fact, just about everything in golf has changed to meet the demands placed on tour venues by players who can stripe the ball 300+ yards.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:51 am

BSmack does Tiger pay you to suck his balls?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:54 am

Mr T wrote:BSmack does Tiger pay you to suck his balls?

He has a nanny to take care of that.

Maybe you could pay me for a take. You don't seem to have one of your own.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:22 pm

Put me on the list of Tiger ball-suckers.

He really is that good.

And as far as the game changing.........hello? Marcus Allen?

Anytime you're using manufactured equipment in a sport, there's going to ba advances. Basketball shoes now make you jump higher, or at least more often without injuring your legs. What would Wilt have done with more hops?

But, furthermore, it's the attitude, not to mention the money. In days of old, MLB players often went and worked at a real job in the off-season. Now, the serious professionals spend the off=season in the weight room. So too for golf. How many hours a week did Bobby Jones, Arnie, or Jack spend in the weight room, or consulting a trainer? Tiger works out harder than any other player in history, and (arguably) hits the ball farther than anyone else in history. Coincedence?

Times change, sports change.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:16 pm

BSmack wrote: Maybe you could pay me for a take. You don't seem to have one of your own.

No thanks, I have never been a fan of slot machines.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:21 pm

Dinsdale wrote:Tiger works out harder than any other player in history, and (arguably) hits the ball farther than anyone else in history. Coincedence?

Times change, sports change.

Have to agree with you but his game has fell off, for him, since he found that girl. Unlike most golfers he wasnt married or seeing anyone during his great run.

Coincedence?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:32 pm

Mr T wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:Tiger works out harder than any other player in history, and (arguably) hits the ball farther than anyone else in history. Coincedence?

Times change, sports change.
Have to agree with you but his game has fell off, for him, since he found that girl. Unlike most golfers he wasnt married or seeing anyone during his great run.

Coincedence?

His game fell off because he was redesigning his swing. Here, read this and get back to me in a year or so when you finaly comprehend it

Why Tiger "only" won one event last year and why he will will a hell of a lot more than that this year.

Did you SEE Tiger play this year? Did you see the Buick? Doral? Kapalua?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:52 pm

HUUUUGE :shocker:

Dude was injured.....and his game went downhill?

I just can't relate to that, personally(Oh wait....yeas I can).

Tiger is looking scary again. Having to alter his swing for aging and injuries was a temporary setback. I don't care if he starts swinging a 1-iron left handed, his superior knowledge of the game is going to keep him in contention for a long, long time.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:51 am

BSmack wrote: Did you SEE Tiger play this year?

Lets see how he does come major time.