The Conference Loyalty Question

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:13 pm

I know a lot of people here post in the CFB forum as well. Over there, a lot of people cite to conference loyalty, especially around bowl season. It's not unanimous, but certainly it seems that a majority of posters in the CFB forum are affected by conference loyalty during bowl season.

I don't see a lot of people citing to conference loyalty in this forum. So, my question is: does conference loyalty affect your rooting interests during the NCAA tournament?

I'm in somewhat of a unique situation relative to this question, since the school I root for does not have a conference affiliation in football, but does have one in basketball. For me, in basketball, the answer is yes. I always root for ND first and foremost, but I root for the other Big East teams in the tourney to do well, as well. In fact, I think I almost always pick all of the Big East teams to advance past at least the first round, unless there's no way I can justify a particular selection.

And without a doubt, my pick in the Final Four is based on conference loyalty. I don't know who I'd root for if the Big East didn't have a team in the Final Four.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:54 pm

Usually, I go into a shell and stop watching for a day or two if/when UConn gets ousted. Sometimes.... it gets real bad.

Last year, I didn't watch another game after the George Mason debacle = didn't watch one minute of any Final Four game. There have been others... gut wrenching losses to Duke, FLA, and UCLA in the 90s were also very painful...

Anyways. Yes, I always pull for the Big East... if I am still watching games. This year, I've really enjoyed Georgetown's run as UConn didn't even make the Tournament. I was really into the game Sunday against Carolina. I have always hated all things ACC, and with B.C. bolting a few years ago to the Tobacco Road Conference, that hatred has intensified. I was screaming at the TV as the Hoyas made their run to push the game into O.T. It felt like I was watching a UConn game.

This has nothing to do with filling out a gay-assed bracket either. I am talking real rooting interests...

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:33 pm

I root against teams in my conference...I don't really want to see a rival win the title.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:46 pm

Once Oregon is out-of-contention in anything (or is that "everything"?), I'm all about the PAC. Blind loyalty.

Except if UDub is one of the teams involved...then I root for Al Queda.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:59 pm

I'm totally loyal to my conference.

GOOOOOOO SEC, ACC, Big 10, Big 12, and Big East!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sin,
JSC810DifferentBandwagons

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Yes, I certainly root for other Big East teams in the Tournament.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:59 pm

i do to a point. but, there are games that as they progress...i usually just pull for a close game if it's a bowl or tourney game. regular season, all rooting interests are oriented to what helps Oklahoma.

i have moments of sadism: for instance, watching Bill Callahan lose is a pleasure. Texas, same thing (but this is hard-wired, not really a choice). Even though i live here, watching Colorado muddle in mediocrity is a cheap thrill at times....it's such a bizarre drama here since the late 80's whether it was McCartney bashing gays, Neuheisel's Camp Rick nonsense, Barney (!), Hawkins.....you name it, the beat goes on. never a dull moment for a disinterested observer living among a truly schizo fanbase.

SEC Ballsucking Homer · Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:06 pm

Dumb fucking question.

What do you think?

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:06 pm

I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe. Thanks to Tommy Amaker I haven't had that problem for some time now. In the second round I want to see Purdue go down. Every other team is a situational thing. This year I am rooting for OSU to win it all to bolster the tarnished image of Big 10 hoops AND to increase the odds that Conley bolts after this season.

What it really boils down to is this, I want the conference to do good but not too good. I think having a high profile conference helps with recruiting, kids want to play where the spotlight is which is why IMO the slurping of all things ACC by ESPN has had a big impact on recruiting for them. Coaching is still the biggest factor but the media exposure and perceived prestige of a conference does play a role.

I'll say it again, within the next 2 years the Big 10 will be back at its rightful place atop the college hoops landscape. Coaching is getting better thanks to the subtraction of guys like Davis and Amaker and with the likes of Sampson and Tubby coming in the future is bright. Not to mention having 4 of the top 8 recruiting classes coming in next year.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:03 pm

Shine wrote:I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe.

I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:05 pm

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:Usually, I go into a shell and stop watching for a day or two if/when UConn gets ousted. Sometimes.... it gets real bad.

Rack this.

This goes for all of my teams that I follow. If/when they shit the bed it's season over time for me.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:05 pm

I would guess it is from all the cheating but he may have a different reason as well.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:07 pm

WolverineSteve wrote: I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

Wow...are Wolverine fans really this ignorant?

Newsflash -- I know of very few fans of college sports that don't loathe everything Michigan. Like myself, they don't have ties to the region, program, or conference.

I've never set foot in the state of Michigan, and I hate all things Michigan sports.

It's just that you people really are that annoying.

Tell me you knew?

BTW -- try not to feel too bad...outside of the B10, people hate Miami even more than they hate you. And nobody hates anybody as much as Johnny Q Public hates Notre Dame football.

helmet · Post by **helmet** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:09 pm

I'd root for everyone in the ACC except UNC. And probably Maryland.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:12 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:
Shine wrote:I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe.
I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

well, that's one reason.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:17 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
WolverineSteve wrote: I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

Wow...are Wolverine fans really this ignorant?

Newsflash -- I know of very few fans of college sports that don't loathe everything Michigan. Like myself, they don't have ties to the region, program, or conference.

I've never set foot in the state of Michigan, and I hate all things Michigan sports.

It's just that you people really are that annoying.

Tell me you knew?

BTW -- try not to feel too bad...outside of the B10, people hate Miami even more than they hate you. And nobody hates anybody as much as Johnny Q Public hates Notre Dame football.

Thanks for that lumberjackass, but the question was for shine. I've seen his disdain for UM in many posts but don't recall seeing a specific reason. In true CFB fans eyes the maize-n-blue is well respected...tell me you knew.

If it's the Fab5 debacle, I respect that, but I think I've seen his hate go beyond CBB.

Just a question, thanks in advance for not replying from west of the Rockies.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:19 pm

I would root for any Pac-10 team. Except if I try to root for SuC, I get nauseous, lose my apetite, break out in hives, muscle cramps, twitches, etc. so it's not really worth it....but all others, yes.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:16 am

i actually have 1 new team to root against in conference, besides the obvious with kansas!

now aTm has a new fondness for me. maybe i'm being blockheaded, but i was enjoying the law miss and memphis winner. almost brought a tear to my eye. close 2nd was last year when bradley man handled kansas, now that brought me to tears..

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:25 am

Yes.

And the worst part is, I don't even know why I do. I hate the states around me. Indiana? Ohio? Bunch of fucking worthless cesspools.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:18 am

WolverineSteve wrote:
Shine wrote:I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe.
I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

He's an IUFan...I wouldn't understand why he'd root any other Big Ten team other than the Hoosiers. He's supposed to dislike Michigan...same goes for IowaFan, StateFan, OSUFan...the whole lot of 'em. You spend the year wanting to beat each others brains in during the season and when your team is eliminated or misses the postseason, your going to root for the enemy? My biggest reason I don't like seeing a conference foe or regional rival win in the postseason is that they earn bragging rights over you.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:31 am

Dinsdale wrote:
WolverineSteve wrote: I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

Wow...are Wolverine fans really this ignorant?

Newsflash -- I know of very few fans of college sports that don't loathe everything Michigan. Like myself, they don't have ties to the region, program, or conference.

I've never set foot in the state of Michigan, and I hate all things Michigan sports.

It's just that you people really are that annoying.

Tell me you knew?

BTW -- try not to feel too bad...outside of the B10, people hate Miami even more than they hate you. And nobody hates anybody as much as Johnny Q Public hates Notre Dame football.

As silly as it is to throw a blanket over the entire state and over the collective fanbase of Michigan athletics...I won't deny that we've got ignorant and arrogant fans here. We've also got a lot of front-running fans here too. There are passionate and spirited fans here but we've also got a lot of wishy-washy fans. To me, I'd rather you be blindly loyal, then to just follow the team when you're not embarrassed by them. I also think you shouldn't give a damn what fans of other teams think of your team...what other way are they supposed to think of you other than in a negative manner?

In short, I say...let 'em dislike the Wolverines. If you're not with us, you're obviously against us. It should be no different than any other team, college or pro. Some fans are a little more mild and don't hate other teams but certainly won't root for the other team when your team isn't involved. I like to follow all teams to know what's going on but at the end of the day, your passion still belongs to one team.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:47 am

As far as regular season goes...there's no good reason to NOT root for your conference. You want teams you eventually play on your schedule to have good RPIs, so if you're rooting for conference foes to lose, you're essentially rooting for your own team to wind up with a piss poor RPI. And if you're rooting aggressively for something that works against your own team, you're essentially....well, an idiot.

And if you're a fan of a team who routinely finds itself on the bubble, like say...MichiganFan, then yep, you'd better fucking care about your RPI.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:04 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:As far as regular season goes...there's no good reason to NOT root for your conference. You want teams you eventually play on your schedule to have good RPIs, so if you're rooting for conference foes to lose, you're essentially rooting for your own team to wind up with a piss poor RPI. And if you're rooting aggressively for something that works against your own team, you're essentially....well, an idiot.

And if you're a fan of a team who routinely finds itself on the bubble, like say...MichiganFan, then yep, you'd better fucking care about your RPI.

There are benefits of your conference having a strong year but I'm going to worry about my team winning their games before worrying about the pretzel logic that is strength of schedule.

You can't control what the rest of the conference does but you sure as hell can handle your own business. I actually ran this concept by our old friend Babs and I must've blew his mind. When you beat another team, you actually hurt your strength of schedule.

Once the dust has settled and the postseason is set and the results from games of common opponents is irrelevant, then I go into full "you're either with us or against us" mode.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:41 am

Shoalzie wrote:There are benefits of your conference having a strong year but I'm going to worry about my team winning their games before worrying about the pretzel logic that is strength of schedule.

Don't try to make it more complex than it is.

If Wisconsin has Kansas on its out of conference schedule, you root/wish/prefer for Wisconsin to win.

It really is that simple. There's no mind-numbing "pretzel logic" involved.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:35 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Shoalzie wrote:There are benefits of your conference having a strong year but I'm going to worry about my team winning their games before worrying about the pretzel logic that is strength of schedule.
Don't try to make it more complex than it is.

If Wisconsin has Kansas on its out of conference schedule, you root/wish/prefer for Wisconsin to win.

It really is that simple. There's no mind-numbing "pretzel logic" involved.

Beating Kansas would help Wisconsin's opposition but losing won't hurt that much either if Kansas is an elite team. It's the bad losses that you'd prefer to not to see.

I call it pretzel logic because you can dissect your strength schedule into several layers/dimensions/angles. Who is your opposition, who is your opposition's opposition, who is your opposition's opposition's opposition...and so on. The bottom line, win your games...those are the things you have control over.

Terry in Crapchester · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:01 pm

Shoalzie wrote:I call it pretzel logic because you can dissect your strength schedule into several layers/dimensions/angles. Who is your opposition, who is your opposition's opposition, who is your opposition's opposition's opposition...and so on.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think RPI gets to that point. By the time you're at that point, most of the teams in Division I would have some impact on the RPI of every team in the country.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:13 pm

Shoalzie wrote:Beating Kansas would help Wisconsin's opposition but losing won't hurt that much either if Kansas is an elite team. It's the bad losses that you'd prefer to not to see.

I call it pretzel logic because you can dissect your strength schedule into several layers/dimensions/angles. Who is your opposition, who is your opposition's opposition, who is your opposition's opposition's opposition...and so on. The bottom line, win your games...those are the things you have control over.

So I guess you qualify as one of those "idiots" I was talking about. If you're honestly going to argue there is no benefit to playing and beating teams with a high RPI, then you're a moron. Plain and simple. End of discussion.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:18 pm

I've always rooted for the ACC, except for Carolina and Maryland. Carolina's pretty obvious but Maryland used to be a team I really liked but their fans are just too disgusting and they are the bottom of the barrel. If they played the taliban, I'd have a turban and fake beard on. But the other teams in the ACC are ok. It's good for the conference when the other teams do well as they share in revenue.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:54 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:
Shine wrote:I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe.
I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.

Don't mind at all. As a youngster I actually sort of liked Michigan, or at least as much as an IU fan can anyway. I really liked the Glen Rice era squads, though not as much as the Kendall Gill et al Illinois squads, and was happy when they won the title. In terms of football I've never liked UM football because they were the "big bullies" of the conference along with tO$U when IU actually had a legit football program, going to bowl games consistently and having guys like AT and Dunbar getting to NYC for the Heisman.

Anyway, my feelings toward UM took a drastic turn when the Fab 5 era began. Their frosh season was also my 1st year at IU so the timing was ripe for the loathing to begin. The Fab 5 represented everything I disliked about college basketball. They were brash, they were cocky, they were undisciplined and they were annointed as the next big thing despite IU owning them during the 2 years the full 5 was in Ann Arbor. So at this point I went from sort of liking UM to having a strong dislike for them. Then the piece of shit known as Maurice Taylor arrived. IU had a massive homecourt winning streak and UM came rolling into town. This also happened to be the game I had the best seats I've ever had at Assembly Hall, 4th row dead center court. Well Michigan won the game ending the streak and afterwards POS Taylor was stomping around on the IU logo at center court talking mad shit. I wanted to run out onto the court and Kerrigan his punk ass. The full blown hatred was cemented that night and the Ed Martin scandal coming to light ensured that the hatred wouldn't go away.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:50 pm

The only time I ever root for a Big 8/Big XII team is if they are playing a conference member I loathe more. Like Oklahoma ending Missouri's season in the Elite Eight in 2002.

I was going to say I'd never root for any of the Texas schools under any circumstances, but I'll forever be a Texas A&M fan for their rally against Kansas State in the 1998 B-XII football title game, one of the more underrated chokes in sports history. Snyder was literally speechless as he stumbled off the field. War Sirr Parker.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:28 am

Shine wrote:
WolverineSteve wrote:
Shine wrote:I root for every Big 10 team to win their first round game except for Michigan who I loathe.
I dont believe I know the genesis of the angst. Forgive me if it's common board knowledge, but I'd like to know, if you don't mind.
Don't mind at all. As a youngster I actually sort of liked Michigan, or at least as much as an IU fan can anyway. I really liked the Glen Rice era squads, though not as much as the Kendall Gill et al Illinois squads, and was happy when they won the title. In terms of football I've never liked UM football because they were the "big bullies" of the conference along with tO$U when IU actually had a legit football program, going to bowl games consistently and having guys like AT and Dunbar getting to NYC for the Heisman.

Anyway, my feelings toward UM took a drastic turn when the Fab 5 era began. Their frosh season was also my 1st year at IU so the timing was ripe for the loathing to begin. The Fab 5 represented everything I disliked about college basketball. They were brash, they were cocky, they were undisciplined and they were annointed as the next big thing despite IU owning them during the 2 years the full 5 was in Ann Arbor. So at this point I went from sort of liking UM to having a strong dislike for them. Then the piece of shit known as Maurice Taylor arrived. IU had a massive homecourt winning streak and UM came rolling into town. This also happened to be the game I had the best seats I've ever had at Assembly Hall, 4th row dead center court. Well Michigan won the game ending the streak and afterwards POS Taylor was stomping around on the IU logo at center court talking mad shit. I wanted to run out onto the court and Kerrigan his punk ass. The full blown hatred was cemented that night and the Ed Martin scandal coming to light ensured that the hatred wouldn't go away.

Thanks bro,much better than Dins' "answer".

You probably know that Taylor is one of the four guys wiped from the UM books. Even so I can see where the hate can come in. I myself remember IU winning in Crisler on a last second (Henderson I think) shot and the players jumping on the scorers table and gesturing to the crowd. It happens, emotions run high and kids will be kids (or thugs). I don't like the self-promotion of todays kids either, but what can I do.

The Fab5 was awesome to watch (from my angle). I know they were brash and cocky, but how else could 5 fresman do what they did? I saw an intervier recently where Webber said they were scared shitless, but wouldn't let it show. Their antics were mostly false bravado. You gotta admit many a team wilted under the pressure of playing those kids, so I guess it worked. The Ed Martin scandal is what it is. A black mark on the University that will probably never go away. That's why I didn't mind Amaker. He ran a clean deal, I hope the next coach has the balls to do it the right way. The University is commited to a clean program, hence Calipari's name being left off the list.

Funny you mention Rice...my all-time favorite UM hoopster. Saw his entire career at UM. Those were the days.

Thanks for the insight Shine, I always wondered.

T1B

The Conference Loyalty Question

Does conference loyalty affect your rooting interests in the NCAA tournament?

The Conference Loyalty Question