Canada & U.S.A: Post Mortem

[al?]

Bad Play:

Bertuzzi
Pronger
Iginla

Full Marks:

Draper
Lecavalier
Doan


Canada has got to learn a better system than dump and chase. It works when you're up and/or your forwards are skating hard and playing physical. They looked disorganized from the beginning of the tournament, the defense was awful and some of the questionable picks showed why they were questionable ('sup Todd).

Mad props to the Russians. Another great game in a historic rivalry. The winner of Russia v. Finland will win the gold. Like it or lump it Wed.

[The Rat Pack]

I would agree that Draper was one of Canada's best players....and Doan The goalies weren't the problem for Canada.

It was terrible coaching from the first game.

[Deckard]

Maybe they should have tried spezza, staal and phaneuf instead of bertuzzi,smythe and pronger but realistically they didn't seem prepared for the international game or ice surface. Think someone would pick up on the fact that its a team game and the other teams are playing like it's their stanley cup, except for Team USA ( playing much like Team Canada ). In the long run it may be for the best with regard to 2010 ( if the nhl releases anyone to play given this years run of injuries ).

[tough love]

Team Canada places the game loser Bertuzzi on Suicide Watch.

[fix]

Team Canada places the game loser Bertuzzi on Suicide Watch.

With any luck, nobody will stop him.

Post mortem...

This was going to be Quinn's last Olympics anyways so the coaching staff will be replaced before 2010.
The management staff should also be replaced given their failure to select the best team and loyalty to players that had no right to be there in the first place.

[See You Next Wednesday]

OK, so the leading ROY candidates are Sidney Crosby who is sitting at home and Ovechkin who is scoring the winning goal. Nice team selection there, Gretz.

[BrantfordBudFan]

Hey us Leaf fans still have 25 more games with Quinn as coach.The rest of the Country gets off easy.Well at least Pitchers and catchers have reported.

[JD]

I didn't think Iginla was bad. He wasn't dominant like he really could be, but he wasn't bad.

Bertuzzi was horrific. No explanation required here.

Joe Thornton was bad. No wonder the Bruins didn't want him anymore.

Agreed that Doan was good. Terrific at times. He's not the type of player you'd expect to see thrive on that ice.

I'm actually looking forward to the NHL returning anyway. Should be a great push to the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see the player movement that's gonna happen.

[al?]

I didn't think Iginla was bad.

That's 'cause you're a homer.

kidding


I thought he looked tight, trying way too hard. Couldn't control the puck and was out of position a lot. He wasn't bad for lack of effort, he was clearly trying....maybe just a little too hard (ie; a weak short-side shot on a shorthanded 3 on 1). He certainly wasn't good.

Add Thornton to the list of no-shows.

[Cicatrix]

Maybe they should have tried spezza, staal and phaneuf instead of bertuzzi,smythe and pronger

Agree with you on Beruzzi and Pronger but not Smyth. He was solid.

The dump and chase did not work in any game they played yet they failed to adapt. That should have been something the coaches dealt with sooner rather than later.

The men should have taken some time to watch the women play and at least see that someone from their country was playing with all their hearts.

[The Rat Pack]

I imagine that Bertuzzi will be soundly booed on his first game back. What does Vancouver see in this guy? Don't get me wrong... I'd take him on my team. But his star is fading.

I just saw a Gretzky interview where he hinted that he'll be resigning almost immediately. That's too bad... I think he did an adequate job. He's not the main goat. His picking of Doan & Draper turned out to be the best part of the team. He stuck by them and it paid off.

The coaching was piss pauvre. Are Quinn & Big Bert lovers?

I don't think Hockey Canada should be blown up... Just get rid of the coach.

US Hockey was dealt a massive blow. Slipping down the ladder of relevancy. I rather they get blown out as a bunch of amateurs than watch
soft living clowns completely embarass themselves. There is way too much infighting on the American squads. Junior & National. Waddell was bawling his eyes out. Actually crying... Who didn't see this coming from a mile away? I guess Waddell didn't.

I'm still stunned that Canada was shutout in 3 games. That boggles my mind.

[Shoalzie]

Joe Thornton was bad. No wonder the Bruins didn't want him anymore.

To me, I thought he was misused. Your team, with the exception of Draper, are primarily first line players. Thornton was dissed in 2002 by being left off and then he's stuck playing a checking role on this year's team. You had too many of the same players and some of them had to play roles they don't usually play on their NHL teams. You should've gone with more role players than just picking the 15 best Canadian-born forwards regardless of what their strengths and weaknesses were. Several of the top players looked out of place or just wasn't playing up to their NHL level. Gagne is having a career year because of Forsberg feeding him the puck. He was there to help him out in this tournament and he wasn't much of factor.

I do think they made a mistake in not pick guys like Crosby, Staal and Phaneuf and hang onto guys from the world championship teams. Personally, if you're a guy that plays in a lot of world championships, that means you've been on a lot of bad NHL teams that don't make the playoffs or get bounced early on. You have to pick the best players at the very moment and make sure you pick a well-rounded roster and not just an offensive dream team. Goaltending was strong...both Brodeur and Luongo. I personally thought Turco was the best goalie on the roster but he didn't play. I wouldn't hammer on the goalies for why they flopped.

As for Team USA, I said it before, this was a transitional period for the team. Maybe they should've left off more of the veterans from the previous World Cup and Olympic teams and gave the younger guys a shot. Right now, the best young talent isn't in the NHL so they weren't all that wrong to go with veterans. In four years, we'll see guys like Parise, O'Sullivan, Kessel, Erik and Jack Johnson make the team after getting some experience in the NHL become the leaders of the new guard of American players. This was the last stand for the majority of the team. I say let it burn right now and we'll hope for better results in 4 years in Vancouver.

[JD]

Joe Thornton was bad. No wonder the Bruins didn't want him anymore.

To me, I thought he was misused. Your team, with the exception of Draper, are primarily first line players. Thornton was dissed in 2002 by being left off and then he's stuck playing a checking role on this year's team. You had too many of the same players and some of them had to play roles they don't usually play on their NHL teams. You should've gone with more role players than just picking the 15 best Canadian-born forwards regardless of what their strengths and weaknesses were. Several of the top players looked out of place or just wasn't playing up to their NHL level. Gagne is having a career year because of Forsberg feeding him the puck. He was there to help him out in this tournament and he wasn't much of factor.

That's a bunch of BS...

The very best players in the world should be capable of filling other roles. That's what makes a player like Steve Yzerman so good. He started his career as an elite goalscorer, but evolved his game so that he could fit any role he's given on any night, while still contributing offensively. It's how you win in hockey. Jarome Iginla has figured that one out too... players have to be able to do all things well to be a winner, and Joe Thornton proved that he's not a winner. Misused? What were we supposed to play him on the top line because he's not capable of playing 12-15 minutes a night? He needs 18-22? Joe Thornton was bad because he was weak on the puck and tried to dipsy doodle too often. Not because he couldn't handle third line minutes.

[Shoalzie]

Do the Czech expect Jagr to kill penalties? Is Selanne used as the Finns' defensive specialist? Thornton isn't going to be confused with a Selke-winner any time soon but the guy is second in league scoring at this very moment. Why should he be on the checking line for any team?

As for the proven winner thing...Sakic has two Cups, Brodeur and Draper have three each, the three forwards from the Lightning just won a title. There are a couple others who have been to the finals, Iginla comes to mind but that's the only significant playoff run the Flames have been on since he's been there. You look at the majority of that team are guys who from teams that haven't won anything. As I stated before, to pick a guy like Smyth to the team who has been to several world championships...that means the Oilers haven't gone very far in the Stanley Cup playoffs, if not miss them all together. Doan hasn't done squat with the Coyotes but he's another one of those world championship veterans. You look at guys like Bertuzzi, Heatley, Gagne, and Pronger...no Stanley Cup finals experience among them. This is a talented roster but the majority of them haven't won championships on the NHL level.

[JD]

Do the Czech expect Jagr to kill penalties? Is Selanne used as the Finns' defensive specialist? Thornton isn't going to be confused with a Selke-winner any time soon but the guy is second in league scoring at this very moment. Why should he be on the checking line for any team?

Because good players should be able to do something that is considered a learnable skill in hockey. I'm not saying Thornton has to shadow Ovechkin all game, I'm saying he needs to be strong on the puck and chip it out of his own zone when necessary. But I haven't seen much of Thornton, and I'm telling you that he's not a winner, and he has a long way to go before he will be. He doesn't do those little things it takes to win hockey games. He only does the big things, ie score points.

As for the proven winner thing...Sakic has two Cups, Brodeur and Draper have three each, the three forwards from the Lightning just won a title. There are a couple others who have been to the finals, Iginla comes to mind but that's the only significant playoff run the Flames have been on since he's been there. You look at the majority of that team are guys who from teams that haven't won anything. As I stated before, to pick a guy like Smyth to the team who has been to several world championships...that means the Oilers haven't gone very far in the Stanley Cup playoffs, if not miss them all together. Doan hasn't done squat with the Coyotes but he's another one of those world championship veterans. You look at guys like Bertuzzi, Heatley, Gagne, and Pronger...no Stanley Cup finals experience among them. This is a talented roster but the majority of them haven't won championships on the NHL level.

Proven winners are one thing... that's your choice of words, not mine. There are players who can contribute to winning teams and those that won't. Shane Doan, while having never won a thing other than World Championships and a Memorial Cup (?), is a winner, IMO. He does the little and big things.

Bertuzzi and Thornton do not. They are losers, and unless something drastic changes, that fact won't change either. Joe Thornton was picked for this team to play as a team, and if he wasn't willing or capable of doing the things asked of him, somebody fucked up.

[See You Next Wednesday]

I think too much is put into the proven winner concept and not enough into the hungry player concept. Russia went with young players, at least compared to Canada, and young players are always eager and full of energy. I think the Canadians sorely missed that component from their team. You need both the young energy and enthusiasm to go with the experience.

[al?]

Spezza, Phaneuf and Crosby should all have been on that team. Over Bertuzzi, Thornton and pick Blake/Foote/Pronger.....though I understand Pronger's selection as he's usually solid and Thornton's, even though he's a proven career individual. Spezza and Heatley on a line would've found a way to score, maybe with Doan in the middle it could've been a dynamite line.

I hope he doesn't, but I would grudgingly accept Gretzky's resignation. 7 of the top goal scorers in the league we're glaringly omitted. Although, who would guess this roster would have trouble scoring?

Quinn is a retard that needs to be kept as far away from future Canadian teams as possible, because:

-A player who had done nothing all tournament, and who had cost his team with one of the dumbest penalties I've ever seen a pro take, was not only NOT benched, but was on the ice when the team needed a goal the most (ie: the final minute). What, was he due Quinn?!?!? Fuck off!

-As Head Coach, he failed miserably in lighting any kind of fire under these guys. Don't tell me there's enough leaders on that team. Quinn has to do something besides stand back there uglying up the place.

and

-

The dump and chase did not work in any game they played yet they failed to adapt. That should have been something the coaches dealt with sooner rather than later.

and, as already pointed out

-players we're horribly misused.

That's what makes a player like Steve Yzerman so good

Steve Yzerman is possibly the second best player in NHL history. His numbers equal Lemieux's in fewer games, and he contributed more (in terms of play on the ice).

I think too much is put into the proven winner concept and not enough into the hungry player concept. Russia went with young players, at least compared to Canada, and young players are always eager and full of energy.

Absolutely. The best teams always have a good mix of proven vets and good young players.

[Shoalzie]

Leaving off Phaneuf was a giant mistake. How could they could take Bouwmeester or Foote over him? Right now, he's one of the ten best players at his position just as a rookie. I don't think it would've killed them to take either Staal or Crosby either considering how they are playing. I wish the Americans had this problem of having too many players to choose from. Hopefully in four years with the influx of young talent from the recent WJC teams can help refill the talent pool.

[al?]

Canada will rise like Lazarus for 2010.

just trying to re-establish the pattern......my forum.

[tough love]

Old News, But I'm Still Feeling The Poetic Justice.

Vancouver embarrassed one more time
Globe and Mail - 2 hours ago
VANCOUVER -- The minuses keep mounting for Todd Bertuzzi as his Vancouver Canucks teammates join in slipping into non-contender status in the National Hockey League...

The Humiliation Continues...End The Curse - Off Bertuzzi



Go 2010