Disect this read, if you will

kcdave · Post by **kcdave** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:20 am

CLICK HERE

I do not agree with all of what is said, and I understand how certain industries could suffer losses, but I do not understand how I am hurting anything or anyone by using a P2P source and pulling a few songs. 99% of the shit I pull, I already bought years ago on cassette, or LP's and just look to listen to every now and then.

As far as Im concerend at this point and time........ the internet is the fucking internet. Survival of the fittest. Eat, or be eaten. The fucking Government, RIAA, and whom ever can tell me what I CANT do, but they allow all the spam to filter into my email, spyware and adware to annnoy me, and jackoffs creating viruses to totally destroy my fucking hard drive?

Also...... Trillion dollar idea, when is one of these web geeks that created the net in the first place, as a pimple faced, pasty goober that spent time in front of the pc instead of chasing pussy......... OR the next geek to be.......... going to create a new website (The next Google, or whatever) and eliminate the recording industry, and FM radio from the whole process?

I'd rant more, but I'd like to read what you all think......

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:49 am

Don't even get me started on the fucking RIAA.

Scobode had a pretty heated argument about this issue a few weeks before the merger. Maybe we can take another crack at it in here, with some fresh views.

I will say that thanks to the goddamn RIAA, you and I now have the priveledge of paying $6.99 per month (or whatever) for syndicated radio programs and sports play-by-play, not to mention a years-long shutdown of fucking AM talk radio from the Internet, which used to be free.

I've never downloaded a single song from the Internet, but I would fight any RIAA executive if I ever saw him.

scritti · Post by **scritti** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:12 pm

are you up for it,RF?

kcdave · Post by **kcdave** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:41 am

RadioFan wrote:Scobode had a pretty heated argument about this issue a few weeks before the merger. Maybe we can take another crack at it in here, with some fresh views.

Sorry I missed that. Is there still a link? Could be a good read.

Sure as hell wont provoke me into any heated arguement though. Why bother?

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:15 pm

I can agree that it's stealing; royalties aren't being paid to the artist nor writer when we rip mp3's.

That being said, what I see going on isn't really a reflection of modern day morals, but of the nature of the business relationship between the music business & music fans. When cassettes came out, it was said that this new media would make for cheaper music. Yet the music business choose to charge more. CD's came along with the promise of making packaged music much cheaper, yet the music industry chose to stick it to music fans again. Additionally, fans were forced to pay for perhaps as many as eight to ten bad songs on a cassette with only one or two good ones (imagine paying for a six pack & only one beer is good). And when bands tour these days they charge absurd amounts of money. The business side simply chose to ignore the wishes/needs of the music fan for many years.

Now that technology has given music fans an upper hand, they really don't care about the music business getting hurt by music file sharing. It probably not a case of maliciousness in most cases, but expecting someone who's been screwed for years by the industry to care about them further down the road is rediculously naive. It's a case of someone being kicked for years, then complaining when they get kicked back.

Not all artists have been greedy bastards. Garth Brooks insisted that his concert tickets be priced under $20, despite the fact that he could sell out 25,000 seats in less than half an hour. He also insisted that his cd's be kept under a certain price (can't remember what that amount was). So like you kcdave, I only d/l songs of his to replace the ones I bought earlier on cd/cassette. But when it comes to an artist like the Eagles (who charge absurd amounts for their concert tickets) I gleefully d/l any & all music of theirs that I can find w/o any remorse.

Perhaps (& I feel likely) if the music industry had defined their relationship with music fans by the golden rule over the last thirty years things might/would have been different. They made their own mess......now they can lie in it.

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:59 pm

The music industry was responsible for mp3.com being shut down? I knew many artists who promoted their music on there. They were hurt when the site first cut back to only allowing three songs per, then went away altogether.

Maybe we should send around a hat and get a new substitute to that site. I'd toss in a few bucks. Anybody know how much this would cost? Like I said, I'd be more than happy to be an investor.

scritti · Post by **scritti** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:55 pm

the music biz died when the beancounters went with quantity instead of quality( 'sup N'Sync,Britney,etc...)

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:59 pm

kcdave wrote:Sorry I missed that. Is there still a link? Could be a good read.

Sure as hell wont provoke me into any heated arguement though. Why bother?

I'd post the link, but it looks like Sco is down for now.

It was mostly BtH (Believe the Heupel/Frozen Sooner) vs. the rest of us. He was making the argument that stealing is stealing, etc. and quite effectively.

My hatred of the RIAA stems from the fact that they didn't make a distinction between FM music and AM talk radio stations when they threatened legal action for "copyright" reasons. They didn't bother to make any sort of distinction, but threatened to take any radio station/radio parent companies through the legal mud unless they ceased live streaming. The stations posted as much on their Web sites for a year or more -- "Due to legal reasons and the Recording Industry Association of America, we are no longer able to provide live streaming of our broadcasts over the Internet. We hope this issue will be resolved soon" -- or something to that effect.

It was only after that happened that syndicated talk shows such as Rome and professional sports leagues began charging a montly fee to listen via the Internet. I subscribed to one of these shows for a while. Part of the "deal" they offered was no commercials. So you get to hear background music or show promos for about 2-7 mintues during the breaks. :roll: Before this, listeners could simply log on to a station in Portland or San Antonio or wherever, listen to the show and hear local commercials and news, as well as national sponsors.

What the RIAA did, essentially, is fuck everyone over who doesn't live within a local broadcaster's range, including potential customers for local advertisers. But at least they're "protecting" artist integrity, especially during AM talk shows. Wouldn't want anyone ripping and burning 20 seconds of bumper music. :roll:

The stupidity of all this is that if you're in a medium to small-sized market, you're fucked as far as your choices in talk radio or sports. (Tulsa has no ESPN Radio affiliate, for example, and the Internet version of ESPN Radio doesn't offer MLB or major college games, because they're "copyrighted." Yet if I lived in Oklahoma City, I could listen to it over the air).

Finally, the other result of the RIAA's meddling is that any talk radio show or sports broadcast is now claimed as "copyrighted," when it comes to the Internet, but obviously not when it comes to local radio.

Thank God the RIAA can't regulate the wattage of local stations. I've been listening to WOAI in San Antonio at night to Spurs' broadcasts for years, both in Kansas and Oklahoma. Is that any sort of "copyright infringement?" Oh, but if I listen to it over the Internet, it is then, right?

Fucking ludicrous.

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:05 pm

Then why doesn't the RIAA take Air America to court over their live streaming?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:17 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:Garth Brooks insisted that his concert tickets be priced under $20, despite the fact that he could sell out 25,000 seats in less than half an hour.

Gee, what a great idea.

Sin,
Pearl Jam

But all in all, I think DiS nailed it.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:33 pm

battery chucka' one wrote:Then why doesn't the RIAA take Air America to court over their live streaming?

Some kind of agreement has been reached in which I speculate that somebody clued the RIAA in as to their oversweeping idiocy.

Not in time though for many syndicated shows and pro leagues to start charging for streaming, once local stations had to shut them down. The RIAA's paranoia provided an opportunity for a lot of commercial providers to start charging. Had they never been such overreaching zealots, it wouldn't have happened, imo. It's possible that the NFL, NBA, Rush, Rome, etc. may have started charging on their own, but that's not what happened. The RIAA is squarely to blame. FUCK THEM and their precious "we own and need to control everything" philosophy, not to mention an unwillingness and lack of imagination in dealing with new technologies. I hope the amount of stolen music doubles every year.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:51 pm

Fuck the RIAA. I will continue to download music and movie files at will. The big 5 record companies have lost me as a customer forever, and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. If I'm really feeling motivated, I'll pony up some cash for a decent local or indie band. But no major label purchases for me ever again.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:17 am

It's out and out stealing. If you lose a watch. Do you get to go into a store and just take another one ?

Nope.

It's being a thief. We can wrap all the "noble" b.s. we want to around it like "We're stickin' to the man, cause the man is sticking it to us", but it's nothing more than walking into a record store, shoving a cd case up our shirts and walking out.

I've even used the "well I can just tape it off the radio excuse".

Yes, I'm a crook, I do download stuff on occasion. If I get caught, I'll get sued or go to jail. That's the risk I take.

kcdave · Post by **kcdave** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:44 am

Tom, I didnt lose my watch. It simply stopped working, and I want it fixed under the warranty. :D

And.......... a buddy of mine, lets me borrow HIS watch from time to time, when mine doesnt feel right!

I'd tell ya more right now, but, Im gonna que 15 or 20, and catch ya laters!

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:50 am

kcdave wrote:Tom, I didnt lose my watch. It simply stopped working, and I want it fixed under the warranty. :D

And.......... a buddy of mine, lets me borrow HIS watch from time to time, when mine doesnt feel right!

I'd tell ya more right now, but, Im gonna que 15 or 20, and catch ya laters!

RACK, I'm in.

I had to pawn a few Slayer CD's back in the day for gas money when I was younger.

WAR SOUTH OF HEAVEN

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:30 am

RadioFan wrote:
battery chucka' one wrote:Then why doesn't the RIAA take Air America to court over their live streaming?
Some kind of agreement has been reached in which I speculate that somebody clued the RIAA in as to their oversweeping idiocy.

Not in time though for many syndicated shows and pro leagues to start charging for streaming, once local stations had to shut them down. The RIAA's paranoia provided an opportunity for a lot of commercial providers to start charging. Had they never been such overreaching zealots, it wouldn't have happened, imo. It's possible that the NFL, NBA, Rush, Rome, etc. may have started charging on their own, but that's not what happened. The RIAA is squarely to blame. FUCK THEM and their precious "we own and need to control everything" philosophy, not to mention an unwillingness and lack of imagination in dealing with new technologies. I hope the amount of stolen music doubles every year.

Again, the people of the United States of America OWN the airwaves. Anything broadcast on the airwaves should be available, in that form, for them to use for free. That said, the individual songs do NOT belong to the people, but the radio shows broadcast for FREE on the airwaves do. Therefore, since there is no show WITHOUT the airwaves, they should be available in that form via streaming as well.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:33 am

Tom In VA wrote:It's out and out stealing. If you lose a watch. Do you get to go into a store and just take another one ?

Apples and oranges Tom. The next time somebody get's sue for giving away Rolexes will be the first.

It's being a thief. We can wrap all the "noble" b.s. we want to around it like "We're stickin' to the man, cause the man is sticking it to us", but it's nothing more than walking into a record store, shoving a cd case up our shirts and walking out.

Uh... not exactly Tom. You see, a 192kbit MP3 file (the lowest quality I'll even bother with off a file sharing server) is not anywhere near the same quality as a CD recording. It's the digital equivalent of taping an album to a cassette.

Don’t believe me? Then go to http://www.etree.org/ and start slinging MP3 files around for trade. All they will do is treat you like a leper at a massage convention.

I've even used the "well I can just tape it off the radio excuse".

I have taped shit off the radio. Most of it can STILL be heard on the radio today.

Yes, I'm a crook, I do download stuff on occasion. If I get caught, I'll get sued or go to jail. That's the risk I take.

No you won't. The only way you will get sued is if you OFFER copywrited material for trade.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:35 am

RF, when I restore the database, I'll bring that thread over. It was a good one.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:45 am

Your concern and caring for my conscience is touching BSmack.

I will download with impunity for the time being.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:00 am

Tom In VA wrote:Your concern and caring for my conscience is touching BSmack.

I will download with impunity for the time being.

That's better.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:10 am

Thank's for setting me straight. And here I thought I was taking food from the mouths of millionaires.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:04 am

battery chucka' one wrote:Again, the people of the United States of America OWN the airwaves. Anything broadcast on the airwaves should be available, in that form, for them to use for free. That said, the individual songs do NOT belong to the people, but the radio shows broadcast for FREE on the airwaves do. Therefore, since there is no show WITHOUT the airwaves, they should be available in that form via streaming as well.

Don't tell the RIAA that. They seem to disagree with you. And made a huge "statement" along the way, I guess. Hold on, I've got to pay my $4.99, because somebody might post something on an Internet message board, that might be copyrighted. I better be sure and pay for those artists' royalites, after all, they are the ones who are suffering. :roll:

PSU, excellent.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:10 am

Tom In VA wrote:It's being a thief.

Sports? Talk radio? No, it isn't.

Sincerely, D-Xers worldwide, who don't record anything, much less sell it, not to mention those of us who just want to hear decent play-by-play of sports.

'sup my username and TV with "historic" calls without their own?

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:34 am

Look, my hatred of the RIAA and my argument in here comes down to this:

During sports, during a big game, why should I have to pay to hear an actual play-by-play guy give me something in which the very network that paid advertisers to bring us their utter crap, time after time, goes out of its way, to show us highlights of some spectacular play, with a fucking radio call, years in perspective?

Why the fuck should we have to listen to TV announcers? Thank God for Westwood One, but why the fuck shouldn't I be able to listen to the Patriots' Network or the Eagles' Network, next Sunday?

Joe Buck and Jackasses 2, 3 and 4 are going to be "calling" it for TV.

As I was saying, "Historic." :roll:

Goddamn. These idiots will NEVER be able to call a game in an historic perspective, because they're too busy "entertaining" the non-football watchers.

OH, but God forbid the RIAA lose any money over it.

Tom In VA wrote: If you lose a watch. Do you get to go into a store and just take another one ?

Nope.

Yep. We'll just make other people pay it for us, even though we won't get any money out of it. We just like to meddle, because we are paranoid, misguided A-holes.

Sincerely.

The RIAA.

OUMO · Post by **OUMO** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:50 am

Want to listen to Jim Rome live here? http://www.jimrome.com/home.html. That will cost ya.

Want to listen to Jim Rome live here? http://www.kref.com/. Well now, that is free. :twisted: