Deflategate - Confirmed

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:00 am

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2339 ... for-a-fool

As Troy Aikman said on Sportsradio 1310 AM and 96.7 FM in Dallas (via The Dallas Morning News):

This whole comment by Roger Goodell based on the Saints when Sean Payton got suspended for the year, and he says 'ignorance is no excuse,' that's going to come back to haunt him again. That haunted him during the whole Ray Rice situation with he, himself, and now it's going to haunt Roger Goodell in terms of what the punishment is for the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick. If ignorance is no excuse, and it wasn't for Sean Payton.

Sean Payton did not cheat. There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what's been said in any other locker room around the league. There's no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.

Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they've cheated and given themselves an advantage. To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints.

Aikman is right. He is so damn right.

I used to think you could not compare the two gates: Bounty and Deflate. One was about bodily injury; the other is about puffing up footballs. Yet they are connected.

The Patriots apparently didn't learn from Spygate. The NFL fined Belichick $500,000; the Patriots were fined $250,000 and forced to forfeit a first-round draft pick.

Those spy cameras didn't turn on themselves, and the footballs didn't deflate themselves. Bountygate also established that ignorance is no excuse.

Bountygate established a $500,000 fine, and the Saints gave up second-round picks in 2012 and 2013, Payton was suspended for the entire 2012 season, general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended eight games and Gregg Williams was sent to Siberia. He's just not getting his career back. Assistant head coach Joe Vitt was suspended six games.

This is what should happen to Belichick and Brady. It should be very similar to the Bountygate punishments.

Belichick should be suspended for a year. Brady for half of that. Why the disparity? Belichick's ignorance isn't an excuse, and Brady, though he's an eternal star, is still an employee.

The punishment needs to be harsh and swift because there's a lot at stake here. There is plenty of evidence for the NFL to act now. Those suspensions should begin immediately. Yes, for the Super Bowl.

The image of the NFL being the most paramount. That's all.

Not much at stake there, right?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:49 am

RACK Joe!

Takes...

- As Aikman (and many other former players and QBs) have said, a person is a m0ron if he believes that Tom Brady did not know the balls were under-inflated. I can tell you as a former tennis player at a pretty high level, I knew immediately if a ball was flatter than the others. Handling footballs is Brady's livelihood. He knows immediately if a ball is under-inflated, and he wants the ball -----> the way he wants it. Dude was lying, period.

- It's jmo that the league has looked the other way on football "doctoring" for a long time. They've known that it's being done and they have never cared. It got sunlight put on it now, and the league is in a corner. The integrity of the game is brought into question if it comes out that this has been a common practice for a long time. Everyone (NFL, Brady, BB) is now feigning ignorance, because it is all they can do.

- Jmo, but the league told Brady what he needed to say publicly. They told him to act as if he didn't know how it happened, because if he doesn't, they will drop a hammer on him. Keep him out of the Super Bowl, at least. But if he goes along with their program and handles it as they want him to, his "punishment" will be minimal.

- Jmo, but it will play out this way...
The league will say that they are investigating the matter further, and that they are putting new ball guidelines in place before the Super Bowl -- to maintain integrity. lolz
The Super Bowl will be played with no penalty or suspension to the Cheatriots before the game.
Sometime after the game is over, some slappie from the NE organization will claim to admit that he was responsible for the ball doctoring.
He will be punished somehow.
The Cheatriots will also be punished somehow -- fine, loss of a draft pick(s) or some other such thing.

What should happen is (1) or (2).

(1) The league should publicly admit that they have let this football doctoring go on for a long time because they never considered it that big of a deal.
Admit that while they had a specific measurement in place for the ball, it was not something they strictly enforced.

(2) Disqualify the Pats from the Super Bowl. Indy v. Seattle instead.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:43 pm

They outscored Indy 28-0 in the second half with standard PSI footballs.

But yeah, DISQUALIFY THEM!

Let's also wipe out wins from every team that rubs dirt on the ball, throws them in the dryer, etc. It's all technically illegal.

This is so stupid.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:37 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Let's also wipe out wins from every team that rubs dirt on the ball, throws them in the dryer, etc. It's all technically illegal.

Actually it isn't anymore. You just can't do it with kicking balls. We should disqualify anyone who wears gloves, though. That's cheating.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:50 pm

According to a physics professor, Martin Schmaltz from Boston U.:

“One complication with the pressure units that we usually use, in this case PSI (Pressure per Square Inch) is that we are measuring the pressure above the atmospheric pressure,” Schmaltz said. “Air at a fixed volume- and I assume the size of a football stays pretty much the same whether it has a PSI of 13 or 11- if the size stays the same, and you change the temperature of the air, the pressure inside the football changes as well.”

The key question, as outlined by Schmaltz, is where the balls were tested prior to the game. If the balls were tested indoors, where the temperature was likely above the 50 degree temperature outdoors Sunday, then the pressure inside the ball would drop once the ball is moved outdoors and begins to cool off.

“If they had inflated the balls inside the building and put it to the minimum amount, and then brought it outside to temperatures that were about 30 degrees lower, that would drop the PSI by between 1 and 2,” Schmaltz explained.

According to Schmaltz, once the temperature of the air inside the ball drops to the temperature of the air outside the ball, the PSI would be changed. Schmaltz estimated that it would take no more than 30 minutes for the temperature of the air inside the ball to acclimate to the temperature of the air outside.

“After the game, if you take the ball inside to a commissioner’s office or another warm place, the air in the ball would warm up again and the PSI would go back up,” said Schmaltz.

If the balls were inflated, stored, and tested outside in 50 degree weather, there’s no explanation for how the PSI could drop so significantly. Schmaltz also debunks Tom Brady’s claim that Rob Gronkowski can deflate a football by spiking it. According to Schmaltz, the wear and tear of the football game will have minimal impact on the air pressure inside the football.

Taking Schmaltz’s expertise and applying it to the weather situation from Sunday, we were able to outline how the Patriots could have altered the PSI of the football if they were able to submit the balls for testing without exposing them to the open air for a significant amount of time.

If the Patriots inflated, stored, and/or tested the balls by filling them to 12.5 PSI in a 70 degree environment, the PSI of the balls would drop by about 1 after half an hour outside in a 50 degree environment, according to Schmaltz.

However, the NFL found that 11 of the Patriots 12 balls were “underinflated by about 2 pounds each.” In order for a ball to register a 10.5 PSI in a 50 degree environment but register a 12.5 PSI in the testing environment, the ball would have to have been inflated, stored, and/or tested in a 91 degree environment.

Schmaltz reasons that “about 2 pounds” means that the balls were likely somewhere in the 1.6-2 PSI below standard range. In that case, the balls would have to have been inflated, stored, and/or tested in an environment that was at least 82 degrees.

Of course, this all assumes that the Patriots’ balls registered the minimum 12.5 PSI when they were tested by the NFL. It also assumes that the NFL doesn’t mandate the balls be left outside in the open air for a half hour or so to get an accurate reading on the PSI of the ball at game temperature.

It’s not obvious to think the Patriots would keep their footballs in a heated environment to help beat the test and make their footballs a little bit easier to throw and catch. But if Bill Belichick is as diabolical as some people say he is, and the Patriots’ organization is fully committed to bending any rule they can to achieve a competitive advantage, then it’s possible.

Looking over the NFL rules on the ball, there’s nothing in the rule book stating what temperature the balls have to be tested at. That’s one of the loopholes the NFL will need to address when it reviews Deflategate and adapts to prevent it in future seasons.

New reports have stated the Colts first suspected the Patriots were using underinflated footballs in Week 11, when the teams played indoors in Indianapolis. That suggests, as many people suspect, that the Patriots have gotten away with bending these rules before.

In the event that they haven’t, however, and that the AFC Championship Game was an isolated incident, the Patriots may have exploited the rule and softened the football using good old-fashioned science.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:57 pm

Another concern I have is what else is NE doing that they shouldn't be? Evidently if an opposing team doesn't notice a discrepancy, no one does. It's a fair question of an organization that repeatedly breaks the rules. All of their Super Bowl wins have been tarnished by spygate since they were video taping opposing teams walk throughs for everyone of them. Which is why the NFL quickly closed the case and destroyed all the evidence. Why destroy the evidence unless there was more to cover up? Its called damage control. From bookies, to fans, to sponsors, repeated championships won by a team that cheated would destroy the credibility of the league.

If this was NCAA football, all those championships would have been voided.

But its the NFL, a multi-billion dollar industry that unless cornered, will lie and deceive to maintain its reputation.

Belichick a genius?

Something else comes to mind.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:52 am

Mgo wrote:They outscored Indy 28-0 in the second half with standard PSI footballs.

But yeah, DISQUALIFY THEM!

Prior to the game, the Gaytriots blatantly cheated in order to gain a competitive advantage.
They cheated because they thought it might be necessary.

Whether or not it turned out to have been necessary does not change the fact that they arrogantly broke the rules.

It's humorous to me that many folks think this should be overlooked -- and that the blatant and arrogant cheaters should move on along to the play the Super Bowl.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:25 am

Quit your whining and just watch the damn game.

It might be epic.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 am

I'm sure you'll be gettin' yer drink on that day.
That's epic.

And things will be even more "epic" if you win $500 on the game.

If Jess shows up on your big screen, it'll be epic x 3.

Life is good!

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:08 pm

poptart wrote:
Mgo wrote:They outscored Indy 28-0 in the second half with standard PSI footballs.

But yeah, DISQUALIFY THEM!
Prior to the game, the Gaytriots blatantly cheated in order to gain a competitive advantage.
They cheated because they thought it might be necessary.

Whether or not it turned out to have been necessary does not change the fact that they arrogantly broke the rules.

Seriously...just fuck off. You've bitten on the media handwringing and now you're simply embarrassing yourself.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:32 pm

So mvsanarchist is against the application & enforcement of rules. Who would have guessed...

Probably has something to do with all those punishments that his wife gives him.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:50 pm

I think there really is only one punishment that can be doled out that is will make everyone happy....and that is to take another 15 scholarships away from USC

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:51 pm

poptart's premise is a good one. The league can't let Brady play & Belichick coach in the Super Bowl, then suspend them next season. Meaning the Patriots and Belichick will get another slap on the wrist.

That's the real problem with the NFL, unequal punishments & an increasing number of judgement call penalties for referees to determine.

I would not be surprised if in another 25-30 years the NFL will be just like the WWF.

Outcomes predetermined based on popularity.

The NFL fan base is turning into a bunch of lemmings, who buy into anything the league doles out.

Kinda reminds me of American politics.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:08 pm

poptart wrote:It's humorous to me that many folks think this should be overlooked -- and that the blatant and arrogant cheaters should move on along to the play the Super Bowl.

I'm not suggesting zero punishment, if in fact the NFL proves NE did this. But disqualification from the SB is a punishment that does not fit the crime. It's ridiculous to even suggest that. Your faux outrage over the Michael Sam coverage, and now this, is pretty comical though.

This discussion is entirely irrelevant anyway, because the NFL is not going to conclude its "investigation" prior to the Super Bowl.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:43 pm

Mgo wrote:But disqualification from the SB is a punishment that does not fit the crime.

If the NFL would just admit that they have let ball doctoring go on for a long time, you would be right.

But because the league is not going to admit it, the punishment I suggest most certainly does fit the crime.

NE was not cheating to seek an advantage for -----> next season.
So why punish them next season, by docking draft picks, suspending player(s) and/or coaches, etc.?

It makes no sense.

No, NE blatantly cheated to damage INDIANAPOLIS, in a specific championship game.

If correct justice and punishment is to be handed down, their victory in that game needs to be overturned.

It's obvious.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:49 am

What's obvious is that you didn't watch that game and are taking your vendetta over the tuck rule against the Pats.

Again.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:26 am

War Wagon wrote:
5 ellipsis Felix tees up further.

this obsession of yours with the way I post is going to drive you insane.....
get used to it, I've been posting like this for years....

poptart wrote: No, NE blatantly cheated to damage INDIANAPOLIS, in a specific championship game.

If correct justice and punishment is to be handed down, their victory in that game needs to be overturned.

It's obvious.

fresh press release.....the patsies could have killed the colts if they'd been playing with nerf footballs.....

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:31 am

no obsession, but there are rules to be followed, protocol.

You can thank me later for trying to steer you along the right path.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:09 am

So, see if I have the reactionary doom-and-gloomers right..... the Patsies, under the direction of the HC, who has nothing better to do, and by consensus of every retired player, never has contact with the equipment guys...

conspired to underinflate balls so radically that..... seasoned officials worthy of conference championship games didn't notice (or maybe they did, leading to increased scrutiny at halftime).

Then, after this most egregious flaunting of decency went down, the lowly Pats tucked their tail between their legs, and ran.

And ran. And ran.

It's clear to anyone who knows a lick about football, that underinflated balls were clearly the reason that Legarrette Blount (QQBigDickhead) had 148 yards and 3 tuddies.

And it's the first instance of PSI manipulation -- just ask John Elway, who a buncha people have tossed under the bus for having the ball boys let air out (apparently, damn-near invented the process).....

So, you whiners want the 2 Denver Super Bowls stripped too, right (which I'd be in favor of, if for no reason other than Elway's douchitude)?

Right?

Oh... it's because it's a successful team with a star that rubs you the wrong way... I get it.

If it was the Bengals making a run, no one would give a half a shit.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:26 am

Dinsdale wrote:It's clear to anyone who knows a lick about football, that underinflated balls were clearly the reason that Legarrette Blount (QQBigDickhead) had 148 yards and 3 tuddies.

With all due respect, this line of reasoning (which has been parroted many times) is completely asinine.

If you break into a home to steal things, and find that you didn't need to break in, because there was nothing to steal, guess what?
You're still guilty of the crime of breaking and entering.

What is wrong with people?

Dinsdale wrote:the Patsies, under the direction of the HC, who has nothing better to do, and by consensus of every retired player, never has contact with the equipment guys...

conspired to underinflate balls so radically that..... seasoned officials worthy of conference championship games didn't notice (or maybe they did, leading to increased scrutiny at halftime).

I've never said that the deflating came by direction of the HC.

I've also never said that the officials didn't notice.
I think they might have noticed, but are not inclined to care -- because it is my speculation that ball-doctoring has gone on for a long time, and it's just been allowed to slide.

Why has it been allowed to slide?

Speculation on my part again, but I assume it's because the league wants comfotable, happy QBs.
Happy, comfortable QBs = more pts.
More pts = sexy.
Sexy = more ignorant sheeple tuning in.

The NFL (and the Gaytriots) are in a pickle here, and it's ponderous that folks are inclined to just let them wriggle out of it.

They want to claim that they DO have these ball standards -- and that NE voilated them.
Yet they want to let the fact that they have been busted slide, and have the cheaters go on along to the Super Bowl.

The league should come clean and admit that while the ball standards on on the books, it has been allowed to be overlooked - much like traveling in Dinsdale's NBA. :wink:

But they won't come clean.
They will just dance around and do their best to convince the masses that they are maintaining integrity. lol

The league knows very well that there are multitudes of half-sleeping sheeple who will nod in agreement with whatever rationalization they trot out -- and will tune in to watch more "make it up as you go along" bullshit as a staple of their Sunday diet.

NFL Wrasslin'

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:33 pm

poptart wrote: I've also never said that the officials didn't notice.
I think they might have noticed, but are not inclined to care --

Right. Because it doesn't make any difference. Sure, driving five miles over the speed limit is technically "breaking the law" but not even cops give a fuck about it.

Why is that?

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:26 pm

mvscal wrote:
poptart wrote: I've also never said that the officials didn't notice.
I think they might have noticed, but are not inclined to care --
Right. Because it doesn't make any difference. Sure, driving five miles over the speed limit is technically "breaking the law" but not even cops give a fuck about it.

Why is that?

That you woulod even pose such an apples/oranges type comparison shows how little you know about law enforcement.

Way to remove all doubt, slapnuts.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:30 pm

Spit the fat baby's dick out of your mouth and answer the question.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:37 pm

KC Scott wrote:Outcome for the league? They will change handling procedures and checks for all games

Like I said before, the league should provide all the footballs for every game and players and team personnel should never be allowed to touch them except when the ball is in play.

How this policy has not been in effect since Pete Rozelle was in charge is ponderous. I'll admit I was completely unaware that teams provided their own footballs to use on offense. The mere thought of that is so ludicrous it was never even considered a possibility.

I wonder how MLB or the NBA handle this very basic function of what a sanctioning body of a multi billion dollar industry should be responsible for.

For fucks sake, I'd wager even MLS or FIFA has better rule enforcement than these NFL clowns.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:49 pm

Wagon wrote:For fucks sake, I'd wager even MLS or FIFA has better rule enforcement than these NFL clowns.

It's exactly why this current situation should not be let go of.

The league is arrogant and it deserves to have it's nuts kicked in.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:24 am

mvscal wrote: Sure, driving five miles over the speed limit is technically "breaking the law" but not even cops give a fuck about it.

I don't know about the cops around your area, but here the interstate speed limit is 80mph.....you get caught going 82 and I guaranfuckingteeyou you're going to get pulled over and written up.....

underinflated balls or not, the patriots were the better team sunday and I fucking despise the patriots but could give a rats ass if the balls were filled with helium....as someone we all knew at one time always said "if you're not cheating, you're not trying"

fug it, just DQ the patsies and lets be done with the over the top week prior to "The Big Game" (see the NFL says I can't use "Super Bowl" because that's a registered trademark of the NFL)

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:32 am

KC Scott wrote:
Did this give the Patriots an unfair advantage? - this is the single question that should be debated. My take is no

I'd say there's a huge advantage.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... story.html

.....during the past five years the Patriots have fumbled at a nearly impossibly low rate, according to football data analyst Warren Sharp. Since 2010, their average plays per fumble lost is 187, compared to the league average of 105. And no one else comes even close. On one hand, a fumble rate that low speaks to the team’s impeccable preparation. On the other, it adds fuel to the accusations of cheating.

This isn’t random chance. As Sharp points out, we would expect this instance to occur once in 16,233.77 chances if fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, “which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win.” Nearly statistically impossible.

Even looking at total fumbles, not just fumbles lost, the Patriots are the only outdoor team in the last 25 years to average 70 plays per fumble or better, according to Sharp:

“The league average from 2010 to 2014 was 50 plays per fumble. For indoor teams, the average was 55 plays per fumble. For outdoor teams, excluding the Patriots, the average was 46 plays per fumble. The Patriots averaged 73 plays per fumble, almost 60 percent more than outdoor teams and almost 50 percent more than the league average the past five years.”

Maybe the Patriots just target players who are particularly good at holding onto the ball? It’s easy to think that during the offseason and in the draft room, Belichick and friends are scouting players who have a knack for not fumbling.

However, Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal looked at Patriots players who, since 2010, have logged significant minutes on other teams to compare fumbles rates. His findings:

“Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).”

....While it isn’t universal for every individual player, Salfino’s larger finding still stands: in the past five years, players fumble significantly less on the Patriots than they do when playing for other teams. Since his initial report, Sharp wrote a supplemental post showing that from 2007-2014, individual Patriots players with more than 300 touches fumbled once every 107 touches, versus every 67 touches when playing for other teams.

The Patriots have held the best plays per fumble rate since 2007. Sharp also points out this is the first year the Patriots started outperforming in wet weather games. After going 0-2 in 2006, New England has gone an unprecedented 14-1 in Tom Brady wet weather home games (compared to 51-9 in dry weather home games). According to ProFootballReference.com, from 2001 to 2006, Brady averaged 9.8 fumbles per season. From 2007 to 2014, his fumbles per season decreased to 5.3.....

The Patriots do everything for a reason. They've been taking advantage of the football preparation rule to give themselves a very nice advantage, especially in wet weather.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:42 am

Felix wrote:see the NFL says I can't use "Super Bowl" because that's a registered trademark of the NFL

of course you know that name was coined by Lamar Hunt. Supposedly, it came to his mind to name the AFL/NFL championship game that after watching his daughter play with this new fangled toy that had come out around that time.

The Super Ball.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:44 am

Richard Sherman is right on too. The NFL commissioner and an NFL owner partying together during the season? WTF? That defines conflict of interest. Goodell should be fired. No wonder it will be weeks before he hands down his bullshit findings.

30 years for the NFL to reach WWF standards? WTF was I thinking, we're already there.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/st ... lationship

PHOENIX -- A picture may be worth a thousand words, but Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman believes one photo in particular may be worth more.

Sherman doesn't think the NFL will discipline the New England Patriots if they're found to have adjusted the air pressure in 11 footballs prior to last Sunday's AFC Championship Game, because of the relationship between commissioner Roger Goodell and Patriots owner Robert Kraft.

On Sunday, during the first Super Bowl media availability at the Arizona Grand Resort, he cited a photograph that included Goodell and Kraft from a party at Kraft's house the night before the AFC Championship Game. The Patriots posted the photo to their official Twitter account:

"Will they be punished? Probably not," Sherman said. "Not as long as Robert Kraft and Roger Goodell are still taking pictures at their respective homes. "You talk about conflict of interest. As long as that happens, it won't affect them at all. Nothing will stop them."

Sherman doesn't think there's much of a difference between the perception of the Patriots and the reality of how close they get to toeing the line on the rules.

"Their résumé speaks for itself," Sherman said. "You talk about getting close to the line, this and that. I don't really have a comment about that. Their past is what their past is. Their present is what their present is.....

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:17 am

Rotoworld's latest.

FOX's Jay Glazer reports the NFL has identified a Patriots locker room attendant as a "strong person of interest" in the ball-deflation scandal.
The league finally has its Ollie North. Per Glazer, the attendant "allegedly took balls from the officials' locker room to another area on way to the field." There is reportedly video of the incident. Glazer says the league is "still gauging if any wrong doing occurred." It's been obvious from Day 1 the Pats were going to set up some sort of underling as the fall guy, the only question is if he'll sing.....

Locker room attendants don't doctor footballs unless they're told to do so, but like all good cover ups, there's always a patsy. A NE patsy at that.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:34 am

poptart wrote:If correct justice and punishment is to be handed down, their victory in that game needs to be overturned.

So with no proof, and an ongoing investigation, you want them immediately disqualified from playing in the Super Bowl. It's a good thing that you are not a judge or in some other equal position of power.

And no, disqualification for 1 or 2 less PSI in a god damn football (which is perfectly capable of happening on its own anyway by natural changes in the temperature) is not "correct justice and punishment." That's like doing prison time for a speeding ticket. You seem to struggle with things like context and congruity.

Finally, if NE doesn't deserve to play in the SB, Indy sure as shit doesn't either, since they got destroyed, and you and I both seem to agree that the deflated footballs had nothing to do with that outcome. Put an asterisk next to the score if that makes you feel better, but a team that got straight up shit-hammered has no business advancing. There is a reason they vacate wins in college football, but don't flip-flop the results: because it's fucking retarded.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:48 am

War Wagon wrote:Like I said before, the league should provide all the footballs for every game and players and team personnel should never be allowed to touch them except when the ball is in play.

Disagree. They should be allowed to scuff up and break in the balls, even if that just means a couple hours prior to the game. Trying to throw a waxy, slippery ball fresh out of the box is a bitch. Additionally, all the NFL has to do about this deflation/inflation nonsense is just increase the gap in the allowable PSI. Problem solved. Every team should be allowed to use a ball that is "comfortable" for them, so that way there are no (perceived) advantages.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:02 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Finally, if NE doesn't deserve to play in the SB, Indy sure as shit doesn't either...

Well then, let's just cancel the SB and award the Lombardi to the KC Chiefs since they are the only team who beat both NE and SEA this regular season.

Let's just overlook the fact they lost to both Ten & Oak... those were meaningless games anyway.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:17 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Like I said before, the league should provide all the footballs for every game and players and team personnel should never be allowed to touch them except when the ball is in play.
Disagree. They should be allowed to scuff up and break in the balls, even if that just means a couple hours prior to the game. Trying to throw a waxy, slippery ball fresh out of the box is a bitch. Additionally, all the NFL has to do about this deflation/inflation nonsense is just increase the gap in the allowable PSI. Problem solved. Every team should be allowed to use a ball that is "comfortable" for them, so that way there are no (perceived) advantages.

:?

I guess the only thing comparable to this brilliant analysis is that Gaylord Perry should've been allowed to use as much vaseline on his baseball as he could without the ball slipping from his hand before throwing that knuckleball.

Seriously, ever notice how a pitcher can ask for a "new" baseball while a batter can't? You may call that "apples and oranges" but it's really not.

The league should provide a regulation ball, unscuffed by either teams personal preference. They can mutually "break them in" all they want beforehand, but both teams use the same set of footballs.

I reckon 'tart should explain how they deal with pro tennis balls, but they damn sure don't allow players to choose which balls they are going to serve next.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:21 am

Quarterbacks have been scuffing up/breaking in balls most likely since the invention of the forward pass. Why people are suddenly acting like this is some new thing is beyond me, and if this really bothers you that much, you should probably just quit watching sports.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:27 am

Mgo wrote:So with no proof, and an ongoing investigation, you want them immediately disqualified from playing in the Super Bowl.

Is there no proof?

The NFL has found that 11 of the New England Patriots' 12 game balls were inflated significantly below the NFL's requirements, league sources involved and familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC Championship Game told ESPN.

The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12 ... nship-game

All of the balls were inspected 2+ hours before the game.
They all measured correctly.

But measured at the half, 11 of the 12 Pat balls were significantly low.
The Colt balls all measured normally.

Is this info wrong?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:29 am

Joe in PB wrote:
KC Scott wrote:
Did this give the Patriots an unfair advantage? - this is the single question that should be debated. My take is no
I'd say there's a huge advantage.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... story.html

.....during the past five years the Patriots have fumbled at a nearly impossibly low rate, according to football data analyst Warren Sharp. Since 2010, their average plays per fumble lost is 187, compared to the league average of 105. And no one else comes even close. On one hand, a fumble rate that low speaks to the team’s impeccable preparation. On the other, it adds fuel to the accusations of cheating.

This isn’t random chance. As Sharp points out, we would expect this instance to occur once in 16,233.77 chances if fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, “which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win.” Nearly statistically impossible.

Even looking at total fumbles, not just fumbles lost, the Patriots are the only outdoor team in the last 25 years to average 70 plays per fumble or better, according to Sharp:

“The league average from 2010 to 2014 was 50 plays per fumble. For indoor teams, the average was 55 plays per fumble. For outdoor teams, excluding the Patriots, the average was 46 plays per fumble. The Patriots averaged 73 plays per fumble, almost 60 percent more than outdoor teams and almost 50 percent more than the league average the past five years.”

Maybe the Patriots just target players who are particularly good at holding onto the ball? It’s easy to think that during the offseason and in the draft room, Belichick and friends are scouting players who have a knack for not fumbling.

However, Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal looked at Patriots players who, since 2010, have logged significant minutes on other teams to compare fumbles rates. His findings:

“Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).”

....While it isn’t universal for every individual player, Salfino’s larger finding still stands: in the past five years, players fumble significantly less on the Patriots than they do when playing for other teams. Since his initial report, Sharp wrote a supplemental post showing that from 2007-2014, individual Patriots players with more than 300 touches fumbled once every 107 touches, versus every 67 touches when playing for other teams.

The Patriots have held the best plays per fumble rate since 2007. Sharp also points out this is the first year the Patriots started outperforming in wet weather games. After going 0-2 in 2006, New England has gone an unprecedented 14-1 in Tom Brady wet weather home games (compared to 51-9 in dry weather home games). According to ProFootballReference.com, from 2001 to 2006, Brady averaged 9.8 fumbles per season. From 2007 to 2014, his fumbles per season decreased to 5.3.....
The Patriots do everything for a reason. They've been taking advantage of the football preparation rule to give themselves a very nice advantage, especially in wet weather.

This is pretty interesting.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:31 am

War Wagon wrote:The league should provide a regulation ball, unscuffed by either teams personal preference. They can mutually "break them in" all they want beforehand, but both teams use the same set of footballs.

Err, umm, seems we are mostly in agreement here. I just think they should adjust the allowable PSI level to cover a wider range.

The problem with the NFL rulebook as I see it, is there are too many fucking rules. Rules for the sake of rules.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:39 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:The problem with the NFL rulebook as I see it, is there are too many fucking rules. Rules for the sake of rules.

Agreed.

Sincerely,

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:45 am

It's like I'm a lawyer in here arguing both sides of the case, just because I like to argue. There are many salient facts in this thread both sides have made. In brief summation:

1: NE are and have been cheating bastards for many a moon. They are good at it and the NFL looks the other way. They are also a very talented team who deserves to play in the SB

2. Anybody freaking out over them cheating wishes their team could learn how to cheat better.

3. The game will go on as scheduled and a champion will be anointed. Nobody should expect anything but.

4. This will be the the highest rated SB ever.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:if this really bothers you that much, you should probably just quit watching sports.

I would but I have no life outside of work. Watching re-runs of The Big Bang Theory doesn't count... and it doesn't bother me.