T1B

Is this why we need Romney to release his tax returns? To make sure his tithing is on the up and up?

Scott wrote:Most of my ire comes from growing up in an area where if you didn't believe you were ostracized. and it sure wasn't a case of just throwing it out there in poeples faces.

It was "what church do you belong to?"

uhhh.... well I don't

"What is wrong with you?"

Yea... real accepting

Yep.

The decline in the Christian Church has as much to do with the stupid behavior of Christians as it does with anything else.

Van wrote:Thumpers or atheists, which group is more likely to do all those things and therefore present a much stronger case for needing to STFU?

I'll answer.

It's the 'Christians,' and there is no doubt about it.


Christian behavior far too often seems to indicate that they have a profound misunderstanding.

Yes, the misunderstanding that we haven't already won the war.

'The Christian' seems to think he needs to help God along somehow. lolz


It is finished - John 19:30

pop, wasn't one of Jesus's directives something along the lines of requiring His followers to get the hell out there across the world and preach the Word? Didn't Christianity spread through the work of missionaries, and I'm talking actual talking, not the sexual position.

Seems to me that being mouthy about their beliefs is the very bedrock upon which Christianity and all other major religions is based, whereas as with atheism there simply exists no correlating agenda.

Jesus' last Words - Matthew 28:16-20

Paraphrasing: I have all power in Heaven and on Earth. Therefore go and teach all nations - baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you.


There is a lot that can be said about evangelism, but to cut it short, a common sense difference exists between banging someone over the head with your faith, intruding on their private space, and generally being an ASS, and... legitimately taking God-given opportunities to share and have people recognize that they should come out of the darkness that grips them.

War Wagon wrote:

Van wrote:Atheists are primarily a group that keep to themselves. They tend to go by the "live and let live" credo. In the real world one rarely hears from them because they mind their own business.

you mean when they're not suing somebody for discrimination or similar, right?

So discrimination is acceptable to you?

Why, of course it is. Denying homosexual couples the same rights & privileges that hetero couples out front would tell anyone that. Or at least anyone with a lick of sense.

Van wrote:Seems to me that being mouthy about their beliefs is the very bedrock upon which Christianity and all other major religions is based, whereas as with atheism there simply exists no correlating agenda.

Who would be responsible for creating and advancing the agenda? Who is the recognized leader of the Non-church of Atheism? On what day of the week are the non-services held? To whom are the non-prayers addressed?

Van wrote: You're avoiding the question, Wags. Remove the smack board talk from the equation and his question is entirely valid. Atheists do not come knocking on your door in an effort to convert you to their ways, do they? Atheists don't buy up large blocks of Sunday morning TV time to preach their silliness, do they? Atheist manifests can't be found in the nightstand drawers of every hotel in America, can they? Politicians don't pretend to be atheist while pandering to their stupid audiences regarding their atheistic bonafides, correct? They sure as hell don't use bullhorns on street corners to scream at you that you're going to hell, no? Atheists don't require that you give them money, which they then use to flourish in a faith-based, tax-exempt Valhalla, right? Not a whole lot of atheists ever used their loudly brayed spiritual authority to earn themselves blowjobs from pre-pubescent boys, have they?

Bravo! Rack!

War Wagon wrote:I think I know why most atheists despise 'Thumpers'. It's because deep down inside in places they don't like to visit, they're secretly afraid they might be right.

You've got it completely backwards. Thumpers lean on religion to assuage their fears of the afterlife's unknown. Nobody is "secretly afraid" over the idea of some heavenly eternity, atheists included. We ALL would love that to be true. Thing is, those who are honest and sensible see it for what it is, which is pure bullshit.

Besides, atheists don't despise Thumpers for their beliefs. Atheists generally don't care what another person believes. Atheists have no problem with Christians or other Believers who mind their own business and keep their mouths shut regarding those beliefs.

Atheists despise Thumpers precisely because Thumpers thump.

88, I would go so far as to suggest that most atheists likely would not appreciate atheist equivalents of a Thumper, especially those who engage in the types of things I've delineated as being Thumper-specific behaviors.

But are you done bagging on obnoxious Thumpers?

No, no, not Message Board Thumper. I'm talking Real World Thumper, i.e., the guy who knocks on your door and insists that you save yourself before it's too late; the guy with the bullhorn on the street corner; the guy crying crocodile tears on Sunday morning TV while pulling a P.T. Barnum act in search of the contents of your wallet; the guy who thinks a woman and her doctor both need to be killed and sent to hell because she chose to have an abortion, etc....etc....etc....

Gotcha. And to be honest, I've yet to meet a Mormon I didn't like. They've been the most consistently decent group of people I've ever encountered.

A bit too Ned Flanders for my tastes, and South Park also did a perfect send-up of them, but the point remains that they seem to do things the right way.

Well, okay, provided they're not dealing with women, blacks, or common sense.

Van wrote:Gotcha. And to be honest, I've yet to meet a Mormon I didn't like. They've been the most consistently decent group of people I've ever encountered.

A bit too Ned Flanders for my tastes, and South Park also did a perfect send-up of them, but the point remains that they seem to do things the right way.

Well, okay, provided they're not dealing with women, blacks, or common sense.

So what is wrong with the way they deal with their women ? They have multiple wives, get to fuck a different gash every night if so be, make the bitches keep the house, kids, yard and all that. Bring home a paycheck and makes the women do the house work.

KC Scott wrote: I respect your right to believe whatever you believe

I don't. People who act based upon magical fairy tales are idiots. Things like buried gold plates, rising from the dead and free markets are fictions.

Bizzarofelice wrote:People who act based upon magical fairy tales are idiots.

Like anthropogenic global warming for instance?

Papa Willie wrote:

Bizzarofelice wrote:

KC Scott wrote: I respect your right to believe whatever you believe

I don't. People who act based upon magical fairy tales are idiots. Things like buried gold plates, rising from the dead and free markets are fictions.

So what do you think of Obama always talking about his Islamic AND Christian faith? That's gotta be a cold diamond in your pooper.

i don't recall obama talking up his islamic faith. link?

He sure the fukk does talk up his alleged christian faith, though, don't he?

Anyone banging Willard for following then tenets of his faith, tithing, then giving barry a pass for sitting in the church of a racist POS is a special kind of retard. Right up there with the magic sky god believers.

As for Christians bothering me on Saturday morning, I really don't have much of a problem with it as long as they go the fukk away when I tell them to.

'Cause lord knows one more cockblocker couldn't fuck up your Saturday morning any more than the Original already does, huh?

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... make-money

Read this harrowing account of just what this malignant cult is really all about.

To the title of the thread, and what I think...

Mitt the private citizen can give whatever amount of money he wants to his church and it bothers me not.
It's legal, it's his jack, it's his business.

Mitt the President is another story as far as poptart is concerned.
He would earn a taxpayer provided salary of $400,000 a year.

He admits to giving a 10% tithe to the church.
That's $40,000 a year that the taxpayer is effectively handing over to that... cult.

Not IN.


I know it's sort of become fashionable (by default - due to Mitt being the GOP candidate, and a STRONG desire to see Barry defeated) for some conservative Christians to look the other way and say, "It's just another denomination. He believes in Jesus Christ, etc."

Again, not IN.

A newbie who knows nothing of the Bible can be duped into falling for the lie that mormonism is a part of Christianity, but someone who has been around and in the church as long as Mitt has KNOWS FULL WELL that his cult has created a jesus/god to worship who is entirely different than the Jesus/God of the Bible.

They've invented a new jesus/god and then have said, "Look. See, we're Christians, too."

It is absolutely idol worship and I'm not down with advancing that agenda at all.

I don't want my taxes going to it and I don't want to legitimize it by having our President as a member of it.


There ya go.

I have no objection to someone being in whatever church they want.
My objection is to the mormons claim that they are a part of Jesus Christ's Church.

88 wrote:Now, if he starts walking around with a hat with some rocks in it and announcing public policy based on conversations with the Flying Spaghetti Monster who communicates to him from there, I am going to have a problem.

I'm pretty sure he does pray.


I'm going to give a short response, and such a response actually probably belongs in the Theology Forum.

People like me are of the view that there is a spiritual world which dwarfs (in power and authority) the physical world that we see.
The events which occur on earth are an 'after-effect' of the spiritual world being moved first.

When God's child prays, the spiritual world is moved and God's Word and will is fulfilled.
It is ultimate good which occurs.

When a person prays to another god, he is calling upon the spirits of the god of this world (guess who that is?) and horrible disaster and destruction occurs - undoubtedly.

It may appear to our eyes that nothing is happening when a person prays.
It looks harmless, but tremendous things are unfolding in the spiritual realm after prayers given to... whoever.

It is for this reason God gave Commandment #1 to the Israelites - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

He gave this (and similarly Commandments 2 and 3) not because he was arrogant and egotistical, but because of the extreme destruction which comes upon mankind when we effectively move evil spirits to take action.



jm'o'

Oh, definitely - and ultimately, whoever our leader is, it is allowed by God.

88 wrote:But don't get your panties in a wad becasue Mittens prays to some other God or says he is praying to your God.

He can pray to whoever he wants and it's ok with me.
Such praying happens all around us - and I was just pointing out the spiritual reality that I believe in.

I'm expressing my take that the mormons are not part of Jesus Christ's Church.
They are heretics.


Again, my tax money paying for his salary ---> and 10% of that going to the mormon church, is not something that I care to see happen.

If other Christians are good with it, that's their call.

88 wrote: Romney's salary, if he is elected president, is not your money.

That salary comes directly from the taxpayer.

Sure, he can do what he wants with that salary - so long as it's legal, and giving to the mormon church is definitely legal.

I'm just saying that I don't want to support that - so for that (and other) reason, I won't be voting for him.

poptart wrote:Oh, definitely - and ultimately, whoever our leader is, it is allowed by God.

88 wrote:I'm expressing my take that the mormons are not part of Jesus Christ's Church.
They are heretics.

Your RaiderFan is showin'. So much for Christian tolerance.

Funny… Some Catholics will tell you that their church is Jesus Christ's Church, and that all other denominations are an apostasy.

I could be wrong, but you don’t strike me as being an evangelical Catholic, pops…

They used to burn folks like you at the stake a few years back, you know.

Regardless, John 11:26 tells us that “…and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.”

You can scream “cult” all you like, but I have to imagine that whole belief in the resurrection thingie to be a tenet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. ‘Specially since they went and troubled themselves to include His name when they got around to naming their church.

Your argument smacks of Jesse Jackson declaring that Obama isn't black enough...

LTS TRN 2 wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... make-money

Read this harrowing account of just what this malignant cult is really all about.

In. What disgusting, reprehensible people.

From their founding, the Momos developed a business plan, gamed the system to their advantage, and turned a prophet profit.

Sounds horribly American.

Why does this matter to you LTS? It ain’t like they're Jews...

pop wrote:When God's child prays, the spiritual world is moved and God's Word and will is fulfilled.
It is ultimate good which occurs.

Not really. Often as not God just says, "Fuck you," and really bad things continue to occur.

Or nothing happens because there is no God, and the child that prays is merely talking to himself.

When a person prays to another god, he is calling upon the spirits of the god of this world (guess who that is?) and horrible disaster and destruction occurs - undoubtedly.

And you know this, how?

And did you really just say that the vast majority of the world is praying to Satan by accident? And you meant it? And you don't expect to be treated as a total crackpot?

It may appear to our eyes that nothing is happening when a person prays.

Because that may in fact be exactly what is happening, whether they're praying to "your" God or their God, or they're simply jabbering to themselves in the mistaken belief that some spiritual being is not only listening to them but will actually get off His duff and take positive action based on their prayers.

It looks harmless, but tremendous things are unfolding in the spiritual realm after prayers given to... whoever.

What sorts of "tremendous things," and again, how on earth would you know anyway? You haven't a clue what goes on in the spiritual realm once someone prays. How could you?

So would you object to a wiccan serving in the military? That would mean your tax dollars going to another church you don't agree with.

Why even go so far as a Wiccan? According to pop, all religions that differ from his (including every other major religion in the world) apparently involve their adherents accidentally praying to Satan rather than to pop's one true God, so whether it's a Mormon, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Sikh, any of the other wrong sects of Christians, etc., they're all fucked.

Anyway, your point makes no sense. Just because a Wiccan serves in the military it doesn't mean your tax dollars go to his church. Your tax dollars go to arming, housing, training, clothing, feeding and providing care to him; not a dime of it goes to his church.

unless he donates to his church.

tax money that could be spent on paying down the deficit goes to paying for magical tree altars.

As far as I know, not too many organized religious institutions require payment from their members. If a Wiccan donates any of his military pay to his church, it's no different than if he spent it on piano lessons, a new bowling ball or porn.

Van wrote:If a Wiccan donates any of his military pay to his church, it's no different than if he spent it on piano lessons, a new bowling ball or porn.

unless you are pete weber, bowling balls are not tax deductible.

So? Every member of the armed services has the option of donating their pay to a religious organization. Your point is a nonstarter.

If you merely want to argue that churches of any stripe should not be tax-exempt nor should donations to churches be tax-deductible, okay, I'll agree with that.

Truman, being that you are an intelligent man, it might be my assumption that you haven't really looked into what this 'jesus/god' being is that the mormons are giving worship to.


Jsc, I take your post toward me as a vent because it doesn't have to do with the topic or the direction the thread has gone.
Also, most of what you said are things you've asked me about previously - and I've already given my answers to them.

poptart wrote:When a person prays to another god, he is calling upon the spirits of the god of this world (guess who that is?) and horrible disaster and destruction occurs - undoubtedly.

Van wrote:And you know this, how?

This is my belief, Van.
You don't have to believe it if you choose not to.

You know I believe the Bible, and the history of exactly this happening is shown to us from the very beginning of Genesis ---> and throughout to the very end of the Bible.

And looking at what goes on around me, I see the very same thing playing out everywhere... now, and throughout human history.

Van wrote:And did you really just say that the vast majority of the world is praying to Satan by accident? And you meant it? And you don't expect to be treated as a total crackpot?

I'm not concerned if someone wants to view me as a crackpot.

It's important to me that I relay the Truth to you.

The Bible shows us what has happened to humanity.
People are attempting to live their lives and find their sense of happiness apart from their Creator, and this inevitably takes them deeply into idol worship of some form.
They are absolutely spiritual captives to satan, they are absolutely serving demons, and they will absolutely be led to suffer greatly.

This is the state people are in.

Van wrote:What sorts of "tremendous things," and again, how on earth would you know anyway? You haven't a clue what goes on in the spiritual realm once someone prays. How could you?

I know what is in the Bible and I have experience with prayer - and my experience (along with many other things) verifies that what is in the Bible is accurate.

Diego wrote:So would you object to a wiccan serving in the military? That would mean your tax dollars going to another church you don't agree with.

I wish a person would not be a wiccan, Diego, but if they are, I can't change it with any action.

I CAN choose not to vote for Mitt Romney, so I won't.

Others can vote for him if they want to.




Gotta Serve Somebody

- B. Dylan

If you post Scripture, I'll be glad to give my comment on it.

You said the Bible has several passages that have the earth as the center of the universe.

If you want to post one (or more) of them, I'll be glad to comment.

Atheist's held up as a non-movement strikes me as loaded.

For every obnoxious Christian that bangs on the door during dinner, there's an atheist under another guise bothering you about something, specifically, non-atheist. Save the whales, occupy Wall Street, etc. But at the same time, atheist would be an accurate description and I could easily construct a meta-group bogeyman from it.

It isn't any different than, 'militant Muslim' or 'Muslim extremist'. You're framing an argument that might be loosely accurate, but evasive or simplistic or sensational, it's an old newspaper trick.

Dr_Phibes wrote:Atheist's held up as a non-movement strikes me as loaded.

For every obnoxious Christian that bangs on the door during dinner, there's an atheist under another guise bothering you about something, specifically, non-atheist. Save the whales, occupy Wall Street, etc. But at the same time, atheist would be an accurate description and I could easily construct a meta-group bogeyman from it.

It isn't any different than, 'militant Muslim' or 'Muslim extremist'. You're framing an argument that might be loosely accurate, but evasive or simplistic or sensational, it's an old newspaper trick.

Nonsense. You're ascribing atheism to save-the-whales and Occupy Wall Steet types, with no basis in fact. You have no idea what the percentage of Believers vs atheists is among these groups, or among any other groups other than religious organizations.

Your point is a complete non sequitur.