Heisman trophy winner

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:53 am

War Wagon wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:
War Wagon wrote: If Tebow comes out this year (won't happen)...
And why won't that happen, praytell?

Uh, not to take sides here, but if you'd hadn't cut off the other 70% of his post, you'd already have your answer.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:03 am

We shall see.

Damnit, I keep forgetting to include my sig.

My apologies, Soonerfan.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:31 am

It's an absolute joke what ESPN does every year by selecting the Heisman winner.

Yeah, I know others vote for it but ESPN has such huge influence.

Is he white? Yes
Is he a QB on a marquee team? Yes
Is he putting up good numbers? Yes
HEISMAN!!!

Shonn Greene deserves to be in New York for this as much as ANYONE in the country. It's a joke he isn't. Before you start spewing off his teams 8-4 record take a look at last years Top 2 finishers. 9-3 and 8-4 teams. Same thing.

The only Big-12 QB that is ever going to get meaningful snaps in the NFL is Sam Bradford yet basically everyone that took a snap in a Big-12 game this year (save for Colorado's QB's) put up big numbers. Things that make you go hmmmmmm...........!!!

The media overhyped these QB's. Give me 5 seconds to throw to 2-3 wide ass open receivers ALL DAY and well, I'll throw for 300 yards too.

Bradford is the only 1st rounder in the league. Josh Freeman is the only other 1st day pick, I guarantee it. Harrell and McCoy don't have the arms and they'll be exposed at the combine for what they really are- good college system QB's. McCoy is slightly better than Harrell. Robinson, Arnaud, Daniel......either too small or can't make NFL throws.

I do think Bradford is more than a product of a system and a bad defensive conference. Dude can play at any level. He ain't Jason White.

All I'm saying is when your worst team (Iowa State) put up an average of 460 yards of offense in 75% of the conference games........maybe the defense in the conference is just downright pathetic. If everyone's putting up huge offensive numbers it's not offensive talent.......it's lack of defensive skill and possibly coaching.

But there is without any doubt that Shonn Greene is one of the Top 3 offensive players in the country and since defensive players apparently aren't eligible for the award (I'd like someone to show me this in the rule book that doesn't exist), he deserves to be at the Heisman trophy ceremony. Though Greene actually has to face quality defenses in the Big-10, I'd still give the award to Bradford. But I'd have Tebow, McCoy and Greene flipping a coin for the next few spots.

1,700+ yards
6.3 YPC
17 TD's
as many highlight reel plays as anyone in the nation
and his team wins 2-3 less games without him

If that's not Heisman material I don't know what is.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:56 am

TheJON wrote:It's an absolute joke what ESPN does every year by selecting the Heisman winner.

Yeah, I know others vote for it but ESPN has such huge influence.

Is he white? Yes
Is he a QB on a marquee team? Yes
Is he putting up good numbers? Yes
HEISMAN!!!

Shonn Greene deserves to be in New York for this as much as ANYONE in the country. It's a joke he isn't. Before you start spewing off his teams 8-4 record take a look at last years Top 2 finishers. 9-3 and 8-4 teams. Same thing.

The only Big-12 QB that is ever going to get meaningful snaps in the NFL is Sam Bradford yet basically everyone that took a snap in a Big-12 game this year (save for Colorado's QB's) put up big numbers. Things that make you go hmmmmmm...........!!!

The media overhyped these QB's. Give me 5 seconds to throw to 2-3 wide ass open receivers ALL DAY and well, I'll throw for 300 yards too.

Bradford is the only 1st rounder in the league. Josh Freeman is the only other 1st day pick, I guarantee it. Harrell and McCoy don't have the arms and they'll be exposed at the combine for what they really are- good college system QB's. McCoy is slightly better than Harrell. Robinson, Arnaud, Daniel......either too small or can't make NFL throws.

I do think Bradford is more than a product of a system and a bad defensive conference. Dude can play at any level. He ain't Jason White.

All I'm saying is when your worst team (Iowa State) put up an average of 460 yards of offense in 75% of the conference games........maybe the defense in the conference is just downright pathetic. If everyone's putting up huge offensive numbers it's not offensive talent.......it's lack of defensive skill and possibly coaching.

But there is without any doubt that Shonn Greene is one of the Top 3 offensive players in the country and since defensive players apparently aren't eligible for the award (I'd like someone to show me this in the rule book that doesn't exist), he deserves to be at the Heisman trophy ceremony. Though Greene actually has to face quality defenses in the Big-10, I'd still give the award to Bradford. But I'd have Tebow, McCoy and Greene flipping a coin for the next few spots.

1,700+ yards
6.3 YPC
17 TD's
as many highlight reel plays as anyone in the nation
and his team wins 2-3 less games without him

If that's not Heisman material I don't know what is.

You absolute dumbfuck!!

You do realize that the finalists are invited to NYC after the ballots are tallied? Nothing to do with ESPN, it's the voters. How many ESPN personalities have votes? Do you know? Do you think that the people who vote on the Heisman are swayed by your percieved ESPN biases? It's not like the media who told the American public who to elect as president.

Oh yeah, it's a CFB award. Not a NFL futures predictor award. Get a life you front-running, no-sack having, board-bitch campaigning P.O.S.!! Your blatant homerism has grown tired. I or anyone on this board can name 10 people more deserving of a NYC trip than Greene. You've taken myopia to previously unheard of levels.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:36 pm

jon makes decent points.

[1] a big xii qb will probably win the heisman for putting up numbers against an empty field.

[2] what makes you think ppl are more careful with their heisman votes than they are with their poll votes? no one watches enough football to completely evaluate the field for themselves, so they rely on [1] stats without context and [2] the media. since espn controls the general media narrative re: cfb, it's reasonable to bitch about who they jock and who they don't.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:56 pm

M Club wrote:jon makes decent points.

Lost me right about here.

I kinda watch espn, I really don't know who they're backing in this race. I know they used to invite five guys to NYC and lately it's been three. Would Jon rather Greene get an invite as some sort of ceremonial gesture even though he won't garner Naderesque (green party, get it?) votes in the race? It's rare that a second place finisher gets a decent mount of votes. So his pissing and moaning is, well, jonsensical as always.

Oh yeah and Greene plays at Iowa so unless they run the table and play in the mnc game he'll never get enough national attention, espn or otherwise. But more to the point, Greene isn't one of the top 10 players in cfb this year, so his points are moot.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:33 pm

Typical jonsense. Player must be able to perform at the NFL level in order to deserve recognition at the college level.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:36 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Player must be able to perform at the NFL level in order to deserve recognition at the college level.

RRRRAAAAACCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!

Sin,

Do I really need to list them?

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:02 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:Oh yeah and Greene plays at Iowa so unless they run the table and play in the mnc game he'll never get enough national attention, espn or otherwise.

which speaks to the ability of the heisman committee to select the most outstanding player in cfb and the media's capability to influence that decision. no lineman has ever won, and only a very few have been considered for a top five finish, often with the encouragement of media coverage. i'm pretty sure most of us here would agree the line is where you build your team. it'd be an interesting experiment to have espn train their cameras on a few lineman next year and see how that affects their heisman chances.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:36 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Player must be able to perform at the NFL level in order to deserve recognition at the college level.

Huh?

Well then, I guess any and all awards should be deferred until after their 2nd or 3rd year as a pro.

There are exceptions of course, but that's the normal amount of time and experience required to determine if a college player can make it at the next level.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:55 pm

War Wagon wrote:that's the normal amount of time and experience required to determine if a college player can make it at the next level.

No, it's longer than 2-3 years, for sure.

Sin,
Alex Smith

.m2 · Post by **.m2** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:13 am

TheJON wrote:
But there is without any doubt that Shonn Greene is one of the Top 3 offensive players in the country

1,700+ yards
6.3 YPC
17 TD's
as many highlight reel plays as anyone in the nation
and his team wins 2-3 less games without him

If that's not Heisman material I don't know what is.

He's not even in Jet blue's league....

Closest thing to Gale Sayers.... since the "Kansas Comet"!!

the truth

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:33 pm

I'm sorry, but I had to stop reading this thread about the time someone said Shonn Greene isn't one of the 10 best players in CFB this year. That is the flat out DUMBEST statement EVER posted on this board.

2nd dumbest was the retard that claimed ESPN doesn't impact the voting. How fucking dumb do you have to be to believe that garbage??? Seriously???

That's like saying the liberal media and their constant criticisms of Dubya did nothing to help Obama win the presidency. Oh that's right, twat, the liberal media only consists of like 0.01% of this country and Obama won by more votes than that! Fucking idiot.

As for the NFL thing.....

I never said that you have to be an NFL prospect to be a good college player. I simply said it makes you kinda wonder just how good these QB's in the Big-12 are when basically every team is putting up huge passing numbers, especially when you consider not many of them have much pro potential. Makes me wonder just how padded their stats are. That's all.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:52 pm

War Wagon wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:Player must be able to perform at the NFL level in order to deserve recognition at the college level.
Huh?

Well then, I guess any and all awards should be deferred until after their 2nd or 3rd year as a pro.

There are exceptions of course, but that's the normal amount of time and experience required to determine if a college player can make it at the next level.

Reading comprehension much?

And mtoolio is turning into Babs with his hard on for his favorite player.

And for God's sake Jon, do a little research. The Heisman Trophy goes in waves. If we were having this discussion in the late 70's or early 80's, your argument would have been:

TheJON wrote:It's an absolute joke what ESPN does every year by selecting the Heisman winner.

Yeah, I know others vote for it but ESPN has such huge influence.

Is he black? Yes
Is he a RB on a marquee team? Yes
Is he putting up good numbers? Yes
HEISMAN!!!

And then you would bitch about Iowa's white QB getting no love.

The Heisman is a fucking populairty contest, get over it. It's like getting voted prom queen, big fucking deal. If Greene is as good as you think he is, he won't give a fuck about the Heisman and laugh his ass all the way to the bank, while Tim Tebow spends the rest of his life at card shows signing autographs, "Tim Tebow; Two Time Heisman winner"

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:32 pm

Killian wrote:
War Wagon wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:Player must be able to perform at the NFL level in order to deserve recognition at the college level.
Huh?

Well then, I guess any and all awards should be deferred until after their 2nd or 3rd year as a pro.

There are exceptions of course, but that's the normal amount of time and experience required to determine if a college player can make it at the next level.
Reading comprehension much?

What?

Go ahead and explain how you can judge a player is able to play at the NFL level when he hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

Someone might need some remedial lessons here, but it's not me.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:39 pm

War Wagon wrote:
Someone might need some remedial lessons here, but it's not me.

whitey,

The "typical jonsense" out front of my statement should have told you that I was making fun of him and not saying what I said as fact. That is the "reading comprehension" Killian was referring to. Also, note the Rack from Dins. He "got it" as well.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:46 pm

Sorry, I guess I'm not up to speed on catching every obscure reference to Jonsense.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:07 pm

Not a problem. Those who have been in here for the 9 or 10 years and listened to jon's jonsense caught it. I can see how those who only pop their head in here when their team is good may have missed it.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:56 pm

hmm, people accusing others of fallacies they've just committed. shonn green is one of the best rbs in the country, ergo he's one of the ten best players in the country since it's too hard to figure all the offensive tackles who'd be ranked ahead of him. then again, mace, since when do the top ten draft picks count as the ten best players. nfl teams never misevaluate talent, and teams don't draft according to their needs, right?

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:21 pm

Mace wrote:so what the fuck is your point?

that you're piling on just to pile on. also, that you're angry. fuck fuck fuck. i'm not the one who saw fit to throw in that part about the top ten picks in an effort to undercut jon's point.

the first part of my post was directed at jon, who just ranted about an award for the best cf player that only considers the offensive skill positions just before he saw fit to call shonn green one of the ten best players in cf.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:36 pm

at least 1-1, angry, most likely 2-0.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:37 pm

M Club wrote:
Mace wrote:so what the fuck is your point?
that you're piling on just to pile on. also, that you're angry. fuck fuck fuck. i'm not the one who saw fit to throw in that part about the top ten picks in an effort to undercut jon's point.

the first part of my post was directed at jon, who just ranted about an award for the best cf player that only considers the offensive skill positions just before he saw fit to call shonn green one of the ten best players in cf.

Just because I think defensive players should be considered for the Heisman doesn't mean I don't think the best rb in cfb is worthy.

My point is this. ESPN does EVERYTHING in their power to convince us that the quarterbacks of the best teams in the country are the only Heisman worthy candidates and even though we all know how dumb and clueless ESPN is, they have incredible influence on the voting. To say they don't is just flat out dumb.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:47 pm

jon and i went fishing once. i caught a couple trout; he caught a mace. and you're definitely angry, fuck fuck fuck. 2-0.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:47 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Not a problem. Those who have been in here for the 9 or 10 years and listened to jon's jonsense caught it. I can see how those who only pop their head in here when their team is good may have missed it.

By "jonsense" he means Jon is the only one on this board to have the sack to come on here and tell it like it is while the rest of you cocksuckers go over to ESPN.com and do a little copying and pasting because Herbie knows all and has no biases. He's a true journalist. A real professional. Yeah, my ass.

I accidentally read the end of that little snippet.......yeah, I just pop up here when my team is good nevermind the fact that my first 2 years on this board my team happened to win a combined 4 games. Nice try though.

And yes, I am baiting Mace here. I am predicting a "go fuck yourself cunt, you make our fan base look bad. I'm a real fan" post.

Mace, i'm calling you out you ignorant cunt.....

You're not a real Iowa fan. You're a bandwagoning piece of crap and you suck a lot of dick

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:42 am

Mace wrote:I think that 8 loss season might have made you a little angry, M Club, and quite possibly made you a little stupid.

That happened well before the 8 loss season, i'm sorry to say.

I once mentioned how my daughter was planning to join the Peace Corp after college. I get this touchy feely PM from M Club saying how cool that was.

Some weeks or months later, I smack him for being a stupid cunt about something or other, I can't recall what it was about, just normal stupid cunt stuff.

Then he responds by saying he hopes she gets raped and killed by n...iggers.

Not one of your finer moments, M-Club.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:15 am

Mace wrote:
M Club wrote:jon and i went fishing once. i caught a couple trout; he caught a mace. and you're definitely angry, fuck fuck fuck. 2-0.
Jon hasn't "caught" anything, unless you're counting the herpes he caught from his boyfriend. I think that 8 loss season might have made you a little angry, M Club, and quite possibly made you a little stupid.

hardly. there have been a good three or four jon posts in the last seven years you didn't see fit to respond to. so now you're a liar. 3-0.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:22 am

War Wagon wrote:
Mace wrote:I think that 8 loss season might have made you a little angry, M Club, and quite possibly made you a little stupid.
That happened well before the 8 loss season, i'm sorry to say.

I once mentioned how my daughter was planning to join the Peace Corp after college. I get this touchy feely PM from M Club saying how cool that was.

Some weeks or months later, I smack him for being a stupid cunt about something or other, I can't recall what it was about, just normal stupid cunt stuff.

Then he responds by saying he hopes she gets raped and killed by n...iggers.

Not one of your finer moments, M-Club.

that's one way to characterize our exchange. i'll leave it up to the board to decide if it's accurate or not:

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:52 pm

Do you think it took espn to show the voters that there are 3 guys in the B12 that had monster years. More impressively, they delivered on high pre-season expectations.

It's always been an offensive award (except for Woodson). To play the old arguement of defining what the award is "supposed" to represent is as fresh as conf. dominance debates or OOC scheduling whining. Lineman, tight ends, special teamers and defenders need not apply. It does, as someone pointed out in here, go in cycles. Some years there are rb's vying for the hardware, we seem to be in a qb cycle now. Don't look for it to change next year with all this years finalists likely to be in NYC again, so start blaming espn now.

Jon, offensive players are easier to measure. Their stats are right out in front of us. Who cares how many pancakes a lineman gets? The voters are made up of local, regional, and national media guys as well as past winners. I think they have other avenues to get their information besides espn. If the public voted, I'd be right there with you, but these voters are more informed than to just watch herbie, corso, and fowler.

If you wanted to make a case that they put too much weight on the candidates w-l record, that's worth discussion.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:27 pm

TheJON wrote: I accidentally read the end of that little snippet.......yeah, I just pop up here when my team is good nevermind the fact that my first 2 years on this board my team happened to win a combined 4 games. Nice try though.

Honest to God, is reading that fucking hard? Read more, post less. Frisco was calling out Wags. Holy hell.

TheJON wrote:You're not a real Iowa fan. You're a bandwagoning piece of crap and you suck a lot of dick

Says the guy who was openly pulling for Indiana because their players "wanted it more". I've wanted losses for the sake of change, but I've never pulled for another team to win, especially because of some stupid idea of players "wanting it more".

TheJON wrote:By "jonsense" he means Jon is the only one on this board to have the sack to come on here and tell it like it is while the rest of you cocksuckers go over to ESPN.com and do a little copying and pasting because Herbie knows all and has no biases. He's a true journalist. A real professional. Yeah, my ass.

You have the sack to tell it like it is when you feel the big boys aren't playing nice with regards to Iowa. I didn't see you take up the cause of any other poor, misrepresented players that weren't being considerd for the Heisman in any of the previous years.

ESPN has a player who's dick they suck every year. The sooner you realize that the Heisman is a popularity contest, the better off you'll be. The best politician doesn't become president, the one who knows how to campaign and has the largest backing with the most money does.

Larry Johnson didn't win the Heisman in '02 even though he was the best player and was most valuable to his team. You can pick a guy every year.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:41 pm

The voters are made up of local, regional, and national media guys as well as past winners. I think they have other avenues to get their information besides espn. If the public voted, I'd be right there with you, but these voters are more informed than to just watch herbie, corso, and fowler.

That's where you're wrong. Do you know who these voters are? Yes, there's a lot of informed voters but MOST of them get their info from highlights they see on ESPN or from College Gameday. I personally know a voter. He's a local guy here who happens to be a sports director at a local DSM Channel. He's a funny dude, a great journalist but his CFB knowledge is far less than anyone on this board- except maybe m2.

There are voters like that all across the country. On top of guys like him you've got former Heisman winners that know even less about who really had a great year in CFB. Yeah, I'm sure Carson Palmer's been doing nothing but sitting around watching all kinda of CFB games every year.

That's where ESPN comes into play. Who is the #1 rated "national" sports media outlet? ESPN. Everyone and their dogs watches ESPN. So if you haven't been paying close attention to the games all year, where exactly do you think you're going to get your info from????? That's right......ESPN

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:08 pm

TheJON wrote:
The voters are made up of local, regional, and national media guys as well as past winners. I think they have other avenues to get their information besides espn. If the public voted, I'd be right there with you, but these voters are more informed than to just watch herbie, corso, and fowler.
That's where you're wrong. Do you know who these voters are? Yes, there's a lot of informed voters but MOST of them get their info from highlights they see on ESPN or from College Gameday. I personally know a voter. He's a local guy here who happens to be a sports director at a local DSM Channel. He's a funny dude, a great journalist but his CFB knowledge is far less than anyone on this board- except maybe m2.

There are voters like that all across the country. On top of guys like him you've got former Heisman winners that know even less about who really had a great year in CFB. Yeah, I'm sure Carson Palmer's been doing nothing but sitting around watching all kinda of CFB games every year.

That's where ESPN comes into play. Who is the #1 rated "national" sports media outlet? ESPN. Everyone and their dogs watches ESPN. So if you haven't been paying close attention to the games all year, where exactly do you think you're going to get your info from????? That's right......ESPN

In my opinion you are waaaay overstating espn's power. If you had a vote it would go to Greene, why? Mostly because you're a homer and have seen him play his whole collegiate career. In your eyes he's the man. So how is your vote (if you had one) any less tainted or more informed than the rest?

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:03 pm

Mace wrote: You've mangaged to convince me that you're a fucking moron in only a few short posts. Props to you.

4-0

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:41 pm

In my opinion you are waaaay overstating espn's power. If you had a vote it would go to Greene, why? Mostly because you're a homer and have seen him play his whole collegiate career. In your eyes he's the man. So how is your vote (if you had one) any less tainted or more informed than the rest?

It is true someone like me should not have a vote. Same goes for the rest of us on this board because of our biases. We're effing diehards of our teams so we deserve no vote.

That said, if you'll recall......I clearly stated on these boards back in 2002 that Brad Banks was not even close to being deserving for the Heisman and he finished 2nd in the voting. I thought McGahee and Palmer clearly deserved it more than he did.

And if you'll scroll up, I did not say Shonn Greene deserves to win the Heisman. I said he deserved to be invited to New York. In fact, I believe Bradford deserves it.

Look at the facts....

Iowa is a solid 8-4 football team.

Shonn Greene rushed for over 1,700 yards, 17 TD's, 6.3 YPC, rushed for over 100 yards in all 12 games, made highlight reel plays, and he did a very good job in pass protection.

Take him off the team we're maybe 7-5 at best and our 4 close losses would have probably been by more than 12 total points. I know, you're thinking "wow, 1 more win!". True, factor in we don't beat Penn State and some of our games we lost by 1 play we lose by double digits so even though the record may not be a big difference, the team overall would be.

Shonn Greene was as valuable to his team as anyone in the country and on top of that he's got stats and highlight reel plays to go along with it. Oh, and no one in the country was more consistent than him. So how is that NOT worthy of at least an invite???

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:12 pm

Mace wrote:
M Club wrote:Now, for the last time....do you have a fucking point or are you just trying to be an idiot?

i think my point's been made, angry. 5-0.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:04 pm

TheJON wrote:It's an absolute joke what ESPN does every year by selecting the Heisman winner.

Yeah, I know others vote for it but ESPN has such huge influence.

Is he white? Yes
Is he a QB on a marquee team? Yes
Is he putting up good numbers? Yes
HEISMAN!!!

Shonn Greene deserves to be in New York for this as much as ANYONE in the country. It's a joke he isn't. Before you start spewing off his teams 8-4 record take a look at last years Top 2 finishers. 9-3 and 8-4 teams. Same thing.

The only Big-12 QB that is ever going to get meaningful snaps in the NFL is Sam Bradford yet basically everyone that took a snap in a Big-12 game this year (save for Colorado's QB's) put up big numbers. Things that make you go hmmmmmm...........!!!

The media overhyped these QB's. Give me 5 seconds to throw to 2-3 wide ass open receivers ALL DAY and well, I'll throw for 300 yards too.

Bradford is the only 1st rounder in the league. Josh Freeman is the only other 1st day pick, I guarantee it. Harrell and McCoy don't have the arms and they'll be exposed at the combine for what they really are- good college system QB's. McCoy is slightly better than Harrell. Robinson, Arnaud, Daniel......either too small or can't make NFL throws.

I do think Bradford is more than a product of a system and a bad defensive conference. Dude can play at any level. He ain't Jason White.

All I'm saying is when your worst team (Iowa State) put up an average of 460 yards of offense in 75% of the conference games........maybe the defense in the conference is just downright pathetic. If everyone's putting up huge offensive numbers it's not offensive talent.......it's lack of defensive skill and possibly coaching.

But there is without any doubt that Shonn Greene is one of the Top 3 offensive players in the country and since defensive players apparently aren't eligible for the award (I'd like someone to show me this in the rule book that doesn't exist), he deserves to be at the Heisman trophy ceremony. Though Greene actually has to face quality defenses in the Big-10, I'd still give the award to Bradford. But I'd have Tebow, McCoy and Greene flipping a coin for the next few spots.

1,700+ yards
6.3 YPC
17 TD's
as many highlight reel plays as anyone in the nation
and his team wins 2-3 less games without him

If that's not Heisman material I don't know what is.

No offense but his numbers are not Heisman worthy. Cedric Benson ended with better stats his senior year than your boy, and he finished his career as the #4 all-time rusher and he didn't get invited his senior year.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:37 am

I'm watching Barry Lyndon instead of the Hypeman show. Did someone win yet?

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:41 am

PSUFAN wrote:I'm watching Barry Lyndon instead of the Hypeman show. Did someone win yet?

i'm not watching it either, though i'm following the "presentation show" threads on the OU homer boards.....and i *have seen* Barry Lyndon.

Harvdog · Post by **Harvdog** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:06 am

Billy Sims is an absolute embarrassment to humanity. Dude needs to lay off the drinks at the pre-show reception.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:07 am

Congrats to Bradford, Sooner nation, and Cherokee nation.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:35 am

Harvdog wrote:Billy Sims is an absolute embarrassment to humanity. Dude needs to lay off the drinks at the pre-show reception.

Billy has not been a great ambassador for a long time. helluva player, but not a success in his personal life....sadly.