Training Camp Issues

[RumpleForeskin]

Yeah, that Ladanian Tomlinson guy didn't play in a pro-style system at TCU. He turned out okay.

[BSmack]

Yeah, that Ladanian Tomlinson guy didn't play in a pro-style system at TCU. He turned out okay.

Exceptions do not disprove the rule. Tell me you knew?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

McFadden has got the physical tools to play in an NFL-style offense, there's no question about that. If the implication is that he can't learn how to play in an NFL-style offense, then I'd like to see something substantial to back that up.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

He had pro style experience in college. Why did he bust?

[RevLimiter]

He will be marginally useful and not a horrible player, but nowhere near worth 60 million.

If that proves to be the case then that's the Raiders' problem. Otherwise, how 'bout we just sit back and watch the guy play a season before making that determination, mmmkay?

[Dinsdale]

Regardless of their size now, McFadden has the body type to add more bulk to his frame and be more like AP than Bush.

AGAIN...

If you try and refer to the Adrian Peterson that played college ball at OU as "AP," it becomes abundantly clear you barely even have a passing interest in college ball...

And should probably keep your proven-ignorant ass away from comments about college ball and its players.


If you compare McFadden to AD, you are clueless.

But I guess it's a hell of a lot more valid than a comparison to Reggie Bush (can't. stop. laughing.).


As a person who actually WATCHED McFadden play several games in his CFB career (sup, apparently none of you)... if he can withstand the NFL-level abuse, he should be a fine player. He can crash through the tackles, and has one hell of a set of afterburners once he gets through. A reasonably patient runner, usually makes pretty good decisions at the line. Combine that with a big athletic body, and that's about all you can hope for in a bigtime RB prospect.


And before you doubt me... remember I'm the guy so many of you ridiculed for calling my shot on AD being the Next Big Thing... how did that work out, NFL Record Book? Which, might I add, was pretty fucking painful to say about a Sooner, a Sooner who freaking shredded my team 3 times in 3 years.


But odds are, McFadden will do just fine.

[Dinsdale]

nor can he block for shit.

Uhm... McFadden's running mate used to run behind DM... to the tune of almost 10 per carry...


Dumbass.

[Loganfan]

Bolts haven't signed their #1 pick yet.

Everybody else looks good to go

[BSmack]

If you try and refer to the Adrian Peterson that played college ball at OU as "AP," it becomes abundantly clear you barely even have a passing interest in college ball...

Those ARE his initials. Right?

When we see Emmit Smith/Jerome Bettis kind of durability out of AP, then you can start with the "All Day" gloss. Until then, a guy who has had 2 spectacular and 3 good games as an NFL player is not worthy of his own gloss.

[War Wagon]

Otherwise, how 'bout we just sit back and watch the guy play a season before making that determination, mmmkay?

Where's the fun in that?

We're like weathermen here. We're forecasting tomorrow, not re-hashing yesterday.

[RumpleForeskin]

We're forecasting tomorrow, not re-hashing yesterday.

Of which you and Paul suck at both.

[War Wagon]

Oh really? Well considering we've got diametrically opposed opinions, one of us is going to be right.

stifle yourself, dumbfuck.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

stifle yourself, dumbfuck.

Interesting instructions you're prescribing… is that considered 'harsh words' in the greater KC area.?

Or are you unsure what stifle means?

[Goober McTuber]

stifle yourself, dumbfuck.

Interesting instructions you're prescribing… is that considered 'harsh words' in the greater KC area.?

Or are you unsure what stifle means?

Whitey fancies himself as a modern day Archie Bunker. He pictures Rumple as Edith.

[Dinsdale]

Well considering we've got diametrically opposed opinions, one of us is going to be right.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=golden+mean" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RumpleForeskin]

He pictures Rumple as Edith.

Well, we both sing off key.

[RevLimiter]

We're forecasting tomorrow, not re-hashing yesterday.

Of which you and Paul suck at both.

And you DON'T?

[Dinsdale]

"I know I do, but so do you"?


New player.

[RevLimiter]

You're a fucking idiot, Densehole.

Rumps, the next time you predict something that comes to fruition in the NFL will be the 1st time. You know what they say about people in glass houses....and you have a cleanup in Aisle 3.

[RumpleForeskin]

Rumps, the next time you predict something that comes to fruition in the NFL will be the 1st time.

I won't go down this road, Paul.

Although I think I was right about that KC/HOU opener last season. I could be wrong, but I was actually at the game so I think I was right. I don't know.

[War Wagon]

stifle yourself, dumbfuck.

Interesting instructions you're prescribing… is that considered 'harsh words' in the greater KC area.?

Or are you unsure what stifle means?

Now that you mention it, "stifle yourself, dipshit" would have worked better.

[poptart]

Conversely, If he's the next coming of Gale Sayers, I'll be the 1st one to admit I was wrong.

Of the 'greats' in NFL history, I'd say McFadden's style compares perhaps best to Tony Dorsett.

Note, I am NOT saying McFadden will have a HoF career.
It remains to be seen what he is.

But in style, he's much like Dorsett.

GREAT speed, terrific receiver, decent size, not a huge slammer between the tackles -- but a real threat to take it to the house any time he touches the ball.

[War Wagon]

Of the 'greats' in NFL history, I'd say McFadden's style compares perhaps best to Tony Dorsett.

Thanks for not comparing him to Bo Jackson.

Yeah, and Tony Temples "style" compares to Emmitt Smiths.

Sorry, but I simply can't believe that you're in here comparing a rook who hasn't peed a drop to anyone.

This is all a bad dream.

[poptart]

Wagon, this thread is not your finest hour.

In fact, your performance in it has been sadly reminiscent of that of one of the endless piss-stream of imbecile posters who used to log to SC and put up 11 posts of sheer idiocy before being run off in a thunderstorm of mockery.

How many years have you been on the boards now?

I've been very careful throughout to NOT say that McFadden will be a great NFLer.
I've said we have to wait and see.

In STLYE OF PLAY, he compares to Tony Dorsett.

Tough for you to ... get?

Is he gonna be as good as Dorsett??
Dunno, and neither do you.

[War Wagon]

<---Damn near run.

I fucking hate it when 'tart chastises me.

[poptart]

Some very solid info from Jerry Mac -- per norm -- about the goings-on in Raiderland to date.



Who’s hot, who’s not
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Sunday, August 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 am in Oakland Raiders, Preseason (2005).

Thoughts on who’s leading, trailing and treading water as the Raiders take their first day off after 10 days and 15 practice sessions of training camp, keeping in mind what the coaches are seeing and what I’m seeing could be two entirely different things.

The following are in no particular order and are random observations, not an all-inclusive list . . .

LEADERS

RB Darren McFadden: There’s a good chance the three teams that passed on McFadden are going to be sorry they did. I was skeptical when Lane Kiffin said the Raiders would have traded up to get him. Now I believe it.

Not only does McFadden’s speed bring to mind Bo Jackson and Napoleon Kaufman, but he’s got better hands than either, is a quick study and does everything with a smile on his face. He is even better than they thought he was.

CB Nnamdi Asomugha: I’ve scoffed at the comparisons with Mike Haynes. Not now. He looks that good.

DE Derrick Burgess: Even allowing for the Raiders’ weakness at the tackle spots, Burgess looks terrific, and moving him around to get him singled up is the smart move.

C Jake Grove: He is bigger, stronger and has seized the opportunity to become the starter. The Raiders thought they had an elite center when the drafted him. Maybe they were right after all _ as long as his knee holds up.

WR Todd Watkins: Has caught everything in sight, and it’s not as if he’s working against chopped liver, getting his share of reps against Asomugha and DeAngelo Hall. Stands a real chance of making the team.

RB Justin Fargas: If anything, McFadden’s presence has him running even harder.

QB Andrew Walter: Rather than take a “woe is me” approach, Walter has had his best passing camp and has the upper hand against Marques Tuiasosopo to back up JaMarcus Russell.

Coach Lane Kiffin: He’s taking the perfect approach to coaching under Al Davis _ he’s doing it his own way, sticking to his belief system and assuming that if he gets fired, he will get another job. His brutal honesty is refreshing.

Receivers coach James Lofton: Whether you want to believe it or not, he was hired before Kiffin ever gave his approval. And you know what? The boss got this one right. An extremely impressive coach, and was key in recruiting Drew Carter, whose performance so far is also worthy of being a camp leader.

DE Jay Richardson: Making a case to be more than an end on first-and-10 and short-yardage. May be emerging as a pass rusher.

SS Gibril Wilson and SS Michael Huff: Forget the talk about them being interchangable. Kiffin said Wilson has been in the box 90 percent of the time and should provide the Raiders with their best true strong safety play since they returned to Oakland. And Huff, liberated, is making some plays.

TE Zach Miller: Has caught everything thrown his way, has a knack for finding open spaces. If Miller isn’t kept in to block, he should catch 60 passes. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he made the Pro Bowl some day.

WR Ronald Curry: New body, can still make the tough catches.

TREADING WATER

QB JaMarcus Russell: Other than a fabulous Friday night, Russell has had both good moments and bad.

It’s OK that he’s treading water because that’s all Kiffin and Co. are looking for in 2008. They’re not asking Russell to win games. They’re just asking him not to lose them. Expect a lot of conservatism and checkdowns as he learns the ropes _ a solid plan.

RB Michael Bush: Kiffin talked up his goal line smash with Kirk Morrison, but there’s still a question as to whether he is more Earl Campbell or Earl Cooper. Great hands, but runs too upright. Keep in mind he’ hasn’t played for two years and by camp’s end he should be better.

DT Tommy Kelly: Needs to be in better shape, but still has a month to get there. Is working diligently on cardio machines. Noticeably gassed during Saturday practiced when forced to be on the field 10 consecutive plays.

LBs Ricky Brown, Robert Thomas and Sam Williams: Brown got first shot at strongside linebacker and did well, but not so well that they simply left him there. Now its’ Thomas turn. Williams has the ideal skill set, but is too fragile.

CB DeAngelo Hall: Probably unfair to have him in this category, but Asomugha looks so good Hall will get plenty of work this year. And he will give up a lot of completions, if the early part of camp is any indication. The key will be if he makes so many plays it doesn’t matter.

LT Kwame Harris: Every time someone gets by him it will be magnified. Showing signs of improvement as a pass blocker. Shows signs of being able to do some real damage downfield in zone blocking scheme. Harris’ advantage lies in the fact that line coach Tom Cable is one of the best around.

TRAILERS

WR Javon Walker: The whole “retirement” thing is troubling, but let’s face it, erratic behavior often comes with the position. The bigger concern is whether Walker can still play at anything approaching the level the Raiders expected.

The hope is Walker can get his legs under him and regain his form. Right now, he’s not close. Perhaps patience will pay off and giving Walker time to work things out could prove beneficial, and Al Davis looks like a genius for signing him and urging him not to retire. Or perhaps Walker gives it a few more weeks and retires if he doesn’t have it in him before Week 1.

If that were to occur, and Walker repays the bonus, it will be credited to the Raiders cap in the 2009 league year and they’re off the hook.

If he stays on the team and plays as has, this is the worst free agent signing since Larry Brown.

DT Terdell Sands: Is professing a new attitude and dedication, but still isn’t in top condition and has had his left knee drained. Already. With a player his size, it could be a maintenance issue all year.

T Mario Henderson: The hope was he would challenge Cornell Green and become a starter. It isn’t happening.

G Paul McQuistan: Has taken more laps than Jeff Gordon at the Daytona 500 because of repeated false starts.

CB Michael Waddell: There was a cornerback named Levon Rowan last season who was scorched daily by virtually every receiver. Waddell is this year’s Rowan, but in his defense, receivers have made a number of great catches against him.

WR Arman Shields: Has had some excellent practice sessions but because of knee problems could wind up on I.R. if he can’t put practices together.

DE Trevor Scott: Listed at 255 pounds, you see him out of uniform and he doesn’t look that big. Having problems disengaging from linemen _ even Henderson.

S Greg Wesley, DE Greg Spires and C John Wade: Three thirty-something veterans who won’t be retained unless they play fairly prominent roles. Wesley has missed considerable time with back spasms, Spires is 34 and not making many plays, and Wade might be out if he can’t beat out Grove because Chris Morris can play both guard and tackle.

CB John Bowie: The guy they got for Randy Moss was doing little of note and then injured a knee.

LB Grant Irons: Comeback bid may be derailed by hamstring which has kept him off the field.

[RumpleForeskin]

'Dre Johnson tweaked his groin during Saturday practice, but he says he's fine. I wouldn't take any chance with the guy. Sit him out at least a week.

Coaches say Okoye looks just like Mario did his second year of camp. A lot of noise is being made about this front seven which is great to hear. Zac Diles is one sick mofo.

Green still looks to be the best RB in the backfield, but Slaton and Taylor are having solid camps too. Chris Brown is about to get cut. Kubiak hates players who have nagging injuries all the time. Those players usually don't last long on this team. See Jerome Mathis.

Haven't heard much about the secondary which could be good or bad. There was one practice where they dominated, but other than that, I haven't heard or read much about their progress.

Schaub looks really good. Kubiak has been really impressed with his two-minutes drills. They did a feature story on Schaub and he admits that staying healthy is what its all about. He thinks a consistent running game will allow that to happen considering the Texans passed a lot last year because they had not ground game. It sounds like the Texans have the talent to provide a ground attack this season.

The o-line and the d-line love Alex Gibbs' instensity. Both lines say they feed of it and really want to outplay the their opponent. O-line is shaping up to be serviceable.

[poptart]

'Dre Johnson tweaked his groin ...

I can relate.



Sincerely,

Wife is out and I'm on the intraweb

[poptart]

I see the Deadskins released Stu Schwiegert. hahaha

Holy crap ... this mush-man started for us for how many seasons??

I take back my haha's.


When the Raiders finally dumped Schweig, he ran his cake-hole about how he just couldn't flourish in Oakland, and how nobody had his back.

Time for a couple haha's again.


Dumb cunt.

[DallasFanatic]

'Dre Johnson tweaked his groin

What a shock...

What's with this 'Dre shit? Are you a n...igger?

You've seen his wife. Of course he is.

[RevLimiter]

Ummm, ANYWAY....

The Chiefs begin their 2008 preseason tomorrow night in Chicago against the Bears. Things I'm looking for out of them:

1. Brodie Croyle- I want to see if Dude can hit the broadside of a barn, much less a WR. Reports from River Falls are that Croyle and WR Dwayne Bowe (the best WR in the 2007 draft) are meshing very well in Chan Gailey's new offense. Despite losing starting rookie LT Branden Albert for the rest of the preseason, backup LT Herb Taylor has so far stepped in nicely at that position....but we'll know a lot more about what that guy has when he faces one of the Bears' good DEs (Ogunleye or Brown) for a number of plays.

2. Larry Johnson- Everything I'm watching and reading out of RF says LJ is 100% back and is flat out DESTROYING people at the point of attack. The foot injury from the GB game last year is a non-issue now and he should do well against the Bears' D IF....

3. Offensive line- ...these guys are improved AT ALL over last season's abortion of a line. Those motherfuckers almost got Brodie Croyle KILLED, giving up the most sacks in the NFL. Until his ankle injury, rookie Albert has settled into the LT position like a natural, LG Brian Waters is DOMINATING anybody he blocks so far, and new C Rudy Niswanger gives the middle of the line a push that smaller former C Casey Wiegmann never could (you'll find that out this season, MuleFan).

4. Secondary- NOTHING but positive words out of RF about rookies CB Brandon Flowers and S DaJuan Morgan. Unlike incumbent SS Bernard Pollard, Morgan can actually COVER WRs in addition to knocking the fuck out of them. Flowers has been everything the Chiefs have wanted and more, which has prompted them to mix in a LOT more press man coverage during practices.

5. Defensive line- Tamba Hali's got some big ol' redneck shoes to fill....I don't think it's too much to ask of a former 1st round pick to collect double-digit sacks this year with Glenn Dorsey right beside you. Alphonso Boone has moved outside to the other side DE, but unless he dropped about 40lbs. I just don't see that guy having enough speed to get to the passer even if he's one-on-one with the tackle.

We'll see about a lot of these tomorrow night.

[poptart]

I saw a Whitlock article about a week ago in which he painted a pretty gloomy portrait of the Chief defense.

Way too young, just simply not talented, and no real veteran leadership to be found.

Has the look of a unit that will give up 30+ points a game on a routine basis.


Herm will try to pound the ... healthy ... Larry Johnson over and over.
Ball control, keep the defense off the field, keep the score within reach.

Good luck.

[RevLimiter]

The Chiefs begin their 2008 preseason tomorrow night in Chicago against the Bears. Things I'm looking for out of them:

1. Brodie Croyle- I want to see if Dude can hit the broadside of a barn, much less a WR. Reports from River Falls are that Croyle and WR Dwayne Bowe (the best WR in the 2007 draft) are meshing very well in Chan Gailey's new offense. Despite losing starting rookie LT Branden Albert for the rest of the preseason, backup LT Herb Taylor has so far stepped in nicely at that position....but we'll know a lot more about what that guy has when he faces one of the Bears' good DEs (Ogunleye or Brown) for a number of plays.

Brodie looked FAR more comfy at QB tonight than he did all of last season. Completed 4-for-4 3rd down conversion passes. Pleasantly surprised by what I saw from him tonight. D-Bowe made a couple of NICE downfield blocks for LJ and rookie TE Brad Cottam. LT Herb Taylor got flagged for holding on one play and totally whiffed on a block on another- otherwise he held up well to the Bears' Alex Brown.

2. Larry Johnson- Everything I'm watching and reading out of RF says LJ is 100% back and is flat out DESTROYING people at the point of attack. The foot injury from the GB game last year is a non-issue now and he should do well against the Bears' D IF....

LJ IS back. Period. End of story. Sucks for you, AFC West defenses.

3. Offensive line- ...these guys are improved AT ALL over last season's abortion of a line. Those motherfuckers almost got Brodie Croyle KILLED, giving up the most sacks in the NFL. Until his ankle injury, rookie Albert has settled into the LT position like a natural, LG Brian Waters is DOMINATING anybody he blocks so far, and new C Rudy Niswanger gives the middle of the line a push that smaller former C Casey Wiegmann never could (you'll find that out this season, MuleFan).

I saw improvement in pass blocking, but run blocking looks like it needs some work. Having said that, Brian Waters was OWNING Tommie Harris. It was beautiful, man.

4. Secondary- NOTHING but positive words out of RF about rookies CB Brandon Flowers and S DaJuan Morgan. Unlike incumbent SS Bernard Pollard, Morgan can actually COVER WRs in addition to knocking the fuck out of them. Flowers has been everything the Chiefs have wanted and more, which has prompted them to mix in a LOT more press man coverage during practices.

Didn't see much out of Flowers to speak of, but Morgan WHIFFED badly on at least two running plays I can remember. Somebody had best get with that boy and learn him how to square up to tackle somebody if he wants significant playing time on this team.

5. Defensive line- Tamba Hali's got some big ol' redneck shoes to fill....I don't think it's too much to ask of a former 1st round pick to collect double-digit sacks this year with Glenn Dorsey right beside you. Alphonso Boone has moved outside to the other side DE, but unless he dropped about 40lbs. I just don't see that guy having enough speed to get to the passer even if he's one-on-one with the tackle.

Tamba was literally 1/2 step away from AT LEAST 3 sacks tonight- Defensive line coach Tim Krumrie better help Dude figure out where to lose that 1/2 step so he can actually make the sack, although I want to see what lining Dorsey up next to him will do for him. Did Boone even play tonight? If so, Dude was The Invisible DE.

[poptart]

Caught the first half of the Raider-Niner game.
Can't hang around for the 2nd half.

Quick views:

- T. Kelly needs to drop a few lbs, but he looked strong and quick in the middle

- With the additions of G. Wilson and D. Hall, the Raider secondary is gonna be hella fun to watch

- Niner QB J. O'Sullivan needs to learn to take care of the rock or he's not gonna be an NFLer for very long

- M. Bush looks SMOOTH running the ball, and he packs a major load when he squares his shoulders

- DMC was worked pretty hard for a first preseason game -- 12 carries in the first half. Nothing big, but ran well enough -- 'bout 50 yds.

- Fargas ran tough, per norm -- Oakland's backfield has the potential to be pretty damn good -- about 90 rushing yds in the first half of this 'meaningless' game. Yuk it up, haters, but K. Harris and R. Gallery are gonna do some SERIOUS damage for our running game on the left side this year.

- Raider passing game looked pretty ... funky. Gotta get that cranked up. Russell looked fair -- J. Walker got behind the defense on one play but A. Walter overthrew him ... would have been 6.


Fun to watch.

[RumpleForeskin]

Andre Johnson - pulled groin

Ahman Green - pulled groin

Ephram Salaam - knee scoped.

All are due back in time for the season opener, but this still scares the shit out of me.

We've led the league in players on IR the last two seasons. I really hope we don't go for the hat trick.

I'm concerned.

[RJ]

Nice breakdown, Pop. Let add a few things......

- M. Bush looks SMOOTH running the ball, and he packs a major load when he squares his shoulders

He was the player of the game IMO. He looked VERY decisive and strong in hitting the hole and gaining yards-he also has excellent hands and caught a few passes for nice gains including that 23 yard screen. Watching him dance around the first defender and then lower the shoulder and plow over a second one en route to hitting the end zone was a thing of beauty. Bush will be turning heads this season.


Johnny Higgins in the return game! Midway through camp, he locked this spot down with excellent vision and ball control. He proved why he earned it when he took one to the house in this game. He's fast as hell, and I expect a few TD's this season from the second year guy we drafted with high hopes. Higgins will fill the slot role very nicely for us in the future as well.

[DallasFanatic]

Cowboys Update.

I was impressed with the Cowboy starters. I think they played exceptionally well on both sides of the ball. Efficient offense made it look easy against one of the better defenses in the NFL. The starting defense really put good pressure on Rivers and forced a couple three and outs. Nice job guys.

Now for the crap. Special teams was their usual self. Now I know there were a lot of second stringers and rookies auditioning for jobs, but damn, a better effort needs to be made. Amendola and Coleman both sucked cack, and the coverage teams were pathetic allowing over 20 yards a return on kickoffs. If they keep that crap up, please refer to divisional playoff game against the Giants, and you can see how they'll end up.

Second string defense was okay. They committed too many penalties resulting in a lot of points for the Chargers. Simply put, you have to be more disciplined and keep the PI's to a minimum. But its the first preseason game so I'm not going to get all geeked up about it

But all in all, the Boys played alright. The score looks worse than it really was.

[velocet]

Rack rumps, pops, dallasfanatics and revs. Nice preseason reporting.


I'm a 'Skins fan and the NFC East is my main concern, but I have always kept an eye on the AFC West and watch those games as much as possible. Those aren't rivalries over there; they're blood feuds that have a special ferocity that shines through no matter what the quality of the teams is in any given year. The heavy fan representation from that division on this board has always been a plus.



Concerning the 'Skins:

Athlon pro football preview predicts that the Redskins will finish dead last in the NFC East.

They also predict that the Cowboys will win the division and go on to win the Super Bowl. Giants 2nd and Eagles 3rd.

On the myopic tip, the first response to that would be: how the fukk can they see things that way when the team in question made the freekin' playoffs the year before with backup personnel starting in quite a few positions down the stretch?

Anyone who knows the score would come back with: the division is real strong. The blue assholes won the SB. The 'Boys won the division. The eagles had some problems with injury but don't let last year's 8-8 finish mislead with a glass half full misreading: they didn't rise to that record, they fell to it. Should they stay healthy most of the year, well, don't count them out.

Who has the biggest question at qb? Hmmm, lessee: Romo... McNabb...Manning... Campbell.
Playing the sesame street game of "which one of these things doesn't belong with the others?" I'm sure everyone would guess correctly. The upside: looks like at least there's a hope for the future with Colt Brennan.

Does the 'skins new coaching staff scare anyone? Julian Bond, Jesse Jackson and other race pimps are happy with the 'Skins new coordinators. Firing Saunders was fukking retarded.
No one with any real rank on the offensive staff has called a play in the NFL.



But hey, we're 2-0 in the preseason!





velocet

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

But its the first preseason game so I'm not going to get all geeked up about it.

:?

Preseason… the only stats that matter!

Sin,
Aaron Rogers ballwasher extraordinaire, .m2

[RevLimiter]

LJ IS back. Period. End of story. Sucks for you, AFC West defenses.

Woooo. I'm sure he's ready to get on with his bad 2.2 yard per carry self.

Yeah....because one preseason game's stats matters.