Goin' to Ocean City...

[Goober McTuber]

So this thread went from a poster asking for some travel tips to a beatdown that is a mandatory ARCHIVE! Excellent thread Mike. Enjoy your vacation.

Risa,

The black fraternities probably had less instances of date rape because their hazing included that “down low” thingy.

[Risa]

As for the rest, what I meant by 'proof of Eye-talian-ess', proof of ethnicity is the sentence:

A lot of the women and men, as a matter of fact, wouldn't sleep together because they thought it made for messy politics at meetings. Some people couldn't separate the organizational stuff from the personal. Fortunately, my girlfriend (my future wife) and I never had that problem. She's a woman of great intelligence, wisdom, and maturity.

Breaking it down, for me, you were saying: most peole didn't sleep together, because they understood how the personal can interfere with business. your girlfriend never had that problem. that makes her a woman of great intelligence, wisdom and maturity.

So, there were two ways to read that. The second way is that your wife had no real power within the organization in the first place, to make her sleeping with you cause any conflicts of interest. She was basically what my father would have referred to as a Tag-A-Long, which is what me and my sister were when my brothers were in Boy Scouts. We did just about everything the boys did, but we weren't and could never be Boy Scouts.

The first way, the way I chose to interpret it, is that you were trying to make a funny by following up your girlfriend never having a problem with sleeping with you with her being of great intelligence, wisdom and maturity. Your sexual needs superceded the needs of the fraternity. Your dick came first. You had no self-control, and did not wish to exhibit self-control. You do not want to help yourself. Sex rules you. That's Italian. And that's fine. A woman's place is on her back. That's not fine.

BSmack, is Mike a prude?

Mike, you two were in college. Don't try to bullshit. Again, (according to you) doves became members because they are the girlfriend (they were sleeping with) the males of the fraternity. Doves are not sought out to become unofficial members because of what they can bring to the fraternity; Doves were just chicks who hung out with other members and knew other members and usually were on their backs for those members. Unless you're trying to tell me that you and she enjoyed a Rog the Shrubber relationship with one another. :? That's anti-Italian. Might as well say the sun rises in the west. But if that's what you and your wife did... well, damn. I am shocked.

I completely believe you made decisions; I think the reason why she didn't let it interfere with your relationship is because she couldn't. You hold the most power in that relationship, not her. She's sounds like a housewife, with a side job... her own hairdressing business or no. Hairdressing is honorable; in the black community, historically it's one of the most honorable along with teaching, barbering and preaching. Except you have no respect for the black community.

Again, you didn't marry her for her brains, you married her because she'd be a good little wifey who knew her place. And that works for folks, as long as both parties agree to what that place is. She knows her place. She accepts it. Your description of your fraternity and why you joined it, also says a little bit about you. To me, your explanation of why you joined says that you like order, and you like bringing order to chaos. You stayed to bring order to that chaos of unpaid dues, keg drinking (again, BSmack, is Mike a prude?), apathy towards the charter and personal politics pretending to be frat business. That has nothing to do with you being a biologist, right? or a teacher. But it may also be part of your leaving fucked up Catholicism for the near-beer of Episcopalianism. I don't know. But you like being a leader. You made decisions about the fraternity and its direction. You also make the ultimate decisions about your household and its direction. Your wife is the secretary who 'holds it all together', but you're the CEO. So her life revolves around your interests, including a vacation that involves your fraternity. Or do you travel with her, some summers, to the cosmotology and make up artists events held around the country? Or just do things that don't have to do with the fraternity at all?

I don't know what TDS Cunt means. Can you explain? after you get back from your vacation, I mean, if you're still here and haven't already started the new school year. And yes, you can loose the pigeons.

By the way, it's irrelevant what I look like.... unless it does matter.

You'd fit in well at Oral Roberts U, Mike. That's not a compliment or a diss, it just is (to me).

Adultery is an 'adult act' in that consenting adults will do what they want to do, and should be able to do it as long as all parties agree and no one is harmed or lied to.

You can't damn 'the hippies' for not being open minded, then call 'open marriage' a bigger threat to the legitimacy of the institution of marriage than any gay couple. You're the biologist. Humans are not wolves or hawks. Humans do not mate for life and were never intended to mate for life. When it happens, it's a beautiful thing. But polygamy has existed for far longer than monogamy. You're the biologist. You're happy in your marriage. So why ignore that other people can be happy in a situation that is unlike yours?

As for juvenile sexual gratification........it's only mature if you're on top, and the only one on top, for you, right Mike?

That doesn't have anything to do with race. It's rather disturbing that you would make it into a race thing.

Read that phrase you just typed. Stare at it for a long time. Sear it into the almost-vestigial neural net you use for a rudimentary "brain." And then recall that phrase and consider it before you ever hit the "submit" key again.

Otherwise, brand yourself, now and forever, as a flaming hypocrite.

I talk race and am racist. Those are two separate things.

You talk race and pretend you are not racist. You declare marriage and monogamy a 'white thing', but close your eyes to the history of this nation, the history of your ethnicity, and the current divorce, premarital and extramarital stats. Again, it's not a race thing, it's a people thing... and for you to turn it into a race thing, and not be afraid of turning it into a race thing, is disturbing to me.

But you're weird about sex. That's merely puzzling to me. Unless there's other stuff going on in your life, Professor.

My God, but you're an idiot.

Ok.

We're both Americans... it's just my families have been here longer than your family.

And yet, mine is doing better and not bitching about how other folks are keepin' me down. Oh, and we understand the concept of birth control and marital fidelity.

Are you speaking about my family, or your perception of my race?

I have issues, Mike; but so do you.

I know what it means to an Italian.

How? By watching the Sopranos?

Pardon. It would have been better to use the word stereotype in there, to make my point explicit. I did not, and that is mea culpa.

Trust me, you have NO idea what it's like outside the "blame whitey" box you seem to dwell in. I'm just pissed that your keeper insisted on poking holes in that box so you could still breathe.

Says the wannabe WASP who is stuck on damning those n.iggers when the real bluebloods are damning those k.ikes. Again, you have issues yourself, Mike, with race. I don't know how your students deal with it, but you've said you teach and live in a predominantly white area.

I'd hate to be the project kid who was misfortunate enough to have to study under you. Some disillusionments, once the facade is torn off, are worse than others. Particularly at that age.

So are you gonna PET this frat trip, or not?

No. I'll PM individuals who give a rat's ass, and I'm sure as hell not giving out pics of my family to the monkeys of the 'net.

So don't give out family pics. The travelogue is the thing, not your body. Just PET a la Sudden Sam and the (figuratively, not literally) late, great Van. Or even Luth, and his trip to Israel.


And Smackaholic, wherever you are, where the fuck are the photos? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Terry [Schiavo] could communicate by blinking.

Well that little fact clinches her ability to kick your ass in mental acuity.

I'm sure you could beat her in an eating contest, though.

She probably could. I'd have gone catatonic, never to communicate with the outside world again, much much sooner than she. Terry Schiavo was a strong person. She stayed strong for years, before she was murdered. She lived in hell. Again, give me catatonia, or nothing at all, over what Terry went through.

As for eating, I'm not an anorexic. Terry probably wished she had been, instead of taking bad diet pills.

to the moment she was cremated against her Catholicism.

You're a moron. The Roman Catholic Church lifted its ban on cremation over four decades ago. So much for you "knowing what it means to be Italian."

Terry's husband kept a mistress and had 2 children with that mistress while being at his wife's side. That's Italian.

Terry's husband tried to kill his wife to collect on the insurance. That's not Italian, that's pure evil.

Terry's husband pretended that his way was also Terry's way. That's male.

Some Roman Catholics pretend Vatican II never happened. They're still Catholic. And if Terry was raised in such a way that her personal beliefs prevented her from considering cremation, then her husband was an even worse dog than he already appears to be.

Oh, and by the way: branding isn't hazing.

If it's done to pledges, yes it is. If it's done as a member, it's just barbaric.

Did Dark Gable tell you that?


I don't believe it. Branding, and its history, is one of those things that set black fraternities apart from white. Let white boys measure manhood by drinking and raping. Black men can remember where they came from, and where they are determined to go instead.

[jiminphilly]

Risa, google Greek Picnic and Philadelphia and make sure you post all the links of stories about the numerous sexual assaults, rapes and other crimes that take place at this event.

[Risa]

Risa, google Greek Picnic and Philadelphia and make sure you post all the links of stories about the numerous sexual assaults, rapes and other crimes that take place at this event.

Sigh.

Commentary: Think Black College Revelers Get the Same Treatment as White Spring Breakers? Think Again
Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2007
By: Tonyaa Weathersbee

Here’s a spring break tale for you -- in black and white.

The Wall Street Journal recently ran a story about how a couple of lawyers in Panama City, Fla. and in South Padre Island, Texas, have been making a handsome living defending the mostly-white spring breakers whose debauchery sends them streaming into courtrooms this time of year.

They seem to be having a bit of fun with it too.

One lawyer brags in an ad that he won’t tell their mama. Even the police seem to be sympathetic to their hard-partying cause as well, with some cops even giving offenders rides to ATMs so that they can pay their fines -- some of which can be as high as $500 for Class C misdemeanors like public drunkenness.

But now, let’s go to Daytona Beach, Fla., where -- if the past is any indication -- the civil authorities there aren’t likely to be as easygoing with the Black College Reunion crowds, who are expected to show up next weekend.

Unlike their white counterparts in Panama City and South Padre Island, whose lawbreaking seems to be greeted with more of a shrug than a shriek, the black college revelers are policed so heavily that whatever fun they plan to have -- whether it leads to them having their rights read to them or not -- is stifled in the early stages.

Thing is, that doesn’t feed a party atmosphere as much as it feeds an oppressive one -- one that is getting old for many black students.

Last year, according to the Daytona Beach News-Journal, college reunion numbers were markedly lower than in previous years. While some believe the crowds were smaller because many college students were annoyed by the thuggish behavior of outsiders, others decided against a return trip because they were turned off by the large police presence.

One girl complained that she could hardly walk down the street without the police hurrying her along, telling her to keep it moving. Members of the American Civil Liberties Union, as well as a Bethune-Cookman College student, complained about excessive policing and racial profiling.

Even one of the city commissioners said there was no need for an “army” of police officers during the event.

Yet the fact that white spring breakers’ antics inspire tolerance and light-handed lawyering while those of black spring breakers provoke panic and heavy-handed policing says a lot about how race is still lived in America.

White college kids who drive drunk or play loud music, or who urinate in public or buy marijuana from undercover officers are seen as good kids who had a wild moment. Black college kids who do the same things are largely seen as incorrigibles.

And they’re treated as such.

Some might argue that it is better for the police to be on hand to stop the Black College Reunion crowd from getting into the kind of trouble that the Panama City and South Padre Island spring breakers get into so that they aren’t subjected to paying fines and lawyer’s fees that they can’t afford.

But that argument misses the point.

The point is that when white kids get into trouble, it is seen as acceptable and as the cost of doing business. When black kids get into trouble for doing the same things, it’s seen as a threat that needs to be crushed then and there. The black kids are regarded as nuisances. It’s not about the cost of doing business. Heck, some businesses even close down when they come.

It’s hard to have fun if you’re being watched and shunned at the same time.

Yet the white kids are seen as clients; as fun-loving kids letting off steam. And when their steam-letting leads to an arrest, they’re treated as clients rather than criminals. They’re left to the lawyers, not to law enforcement.

There must be a better way.

It’s true that black youths can do more to control their behavior -- especially when they know they’re being watched. But at the same time, it’s sad when their Spring Break is filled with reminders of how they’re devalued in America; of how they’re greeted by armies of police officers that will invariably overreact to them if they commit the same minor crimes as white kids. That makes many of them not want to do anything on spring break that resembles fun.

Or, for that matter, not show up for Spring Break at all.

What's the solution, Jim?

[Mike the Lab Rat]

Breaking it down, for me, you were saying: most peole didn't sleep together, because they understood how the personal can interfere with business. your girlfriend never had that problem. that makes her a woman of great intelligence, wisdom and maturity.

You're an idiot of the highest order.

Many of the guys and girls decided to avoid sleeping with each other because they knew that either they personally or whomever they had an interest in sleeping with would not be able to keep the business of the fraternity separate from their personal lives. We had couples who would turn their personal spat into a frigging knock down, drag-out fight at official meetings...also doing stuff like blackballing a candidate just because their "ex" wanted them in, arguing and voting against a decision because of their significant other...it was a mess for some folks. On the other hand, we also had members who could keep the two worlds separate and never allowed their personal issues to spill over to the organization and/or to let fraternal politics ruin their relationship. My wife and I were in the latter group.

Mike, you two were in college.

Actually, I was in grad school and was the alumni president when my wife and I met (and remember, we were dating prior to her membership...I wasn't even at the "bids" meeting in which her candidacy for membership was dealt with, nor did I even know about it at the time).

Again, (according to you) doves became members because they are the girlfriend (they were sleeping with) the males of the fraternity.

Liar. That's not what I said at all.

Doves are not sought out to become unofficial members because of what they can bring to the fraternity;

You have no idea of what you're going on about; the women were specifically given bids for the same reasons the guys were - what they could add to the "family" that was the Chapter. The women went to the same rush parties as the men, were invited to the same formal rush party as the men, were given the exact same bid as the men, went through the same pledging process as the men, and went through "Passing Night" (aka "Hell Night") as the men. Period.

You keep trying to paint a picture which has no basis in reality because it fits your preconceptions.

If the Doves were just as you described, we wouldn't have had to turn away so many women. Eventually their numbers grew to a third of the Chapter.

She's sounds like a housewife, with a side job... her own hairdressing business or no. Hairdressing is honorable; in the black community, historically it's one of the most honorable along with teaching, barbering and preaching. Except you have no respect for the black community.

My wife owns a nail salon in a wealthy suburb of Rochester called Pittsford, and her clientele includes very successful, wealthy women. Some of the women are successful, ambitious, self-made businesspeople, while others are wealthy by blood. Either way, my wife does VERY well.

And as far as the house, we deal with it and the family responsibilities 50-50.

To me, your explanation of why you joined says that you like order, and you like bringing order to chaos.

Christ but you are a moron. I was a 19 year old kid when I joined. I joined a group because I liked the people I met and liked what their literature said they stood for. I had a blast pledging and still have several of my pledge Brothers as current best friends (one of whom is currently a history professor at RIT).

I did not join out of any deep-seated need to pull puppet strings or bring order out of chaos, you dolt. I joined because it was fun and I liked the people I met.

Once I got to be a leader in the group and saw that the pot-addled hippy-wannabes were damned good at spending our funds without doing a damned thing to pay their way, I realized that things had to change. So, with the help of the national office, I did. It worked. The Chapter was named "Best Chapter of AXP" within a short time.

I don't know what TDS Cunt means. Can you explain?

Say it slowly.

Tee-dee-ess cunt.

Te-di-ous cunt.

Tedious cunt.

Adultery is an 'adult act' in that consenting adults will do what they want to do, and should be able to do it as long as all parties agree and no one is harmed or lied to.

Except...adultery is violating marital vows. It is puerile satisfaction of sexual urges. If people want the freedom to fuck whomever they want whenever they want (which is actually adolescent, not "adult"), then they're not ready to be married. So they shouldn't. I'm not going to stop them or say that the law should either, but when the self-indulgent pervs get to a certain point where they realize how shallow they are and leave each other, I just hope to hell that they don't have any kids in the mix.

Humans do not mate for life and were never intended to mate for life.

I realize that some trendy sociologists and bio professors trying to screw their students like to make that claim, but there's no science behind it. And you attempting to cite science is actually kind of cute in a "look at the chimp use a stick" kind of way.

You talk race and pretend you are not racist. You declare marriage and monogamy a 'white thing', but close your eyes to the history of this nation, the history of your ethnicity, and the current divorce, premarital and extramarital stats.

Actually, numbnut, I have my genealogical records back to the 17th century in Italy. Monogamy is kind of a thing with my folk. Peddle your "but everybody's doing it" horseshit somewhere else. My family is Abbruzzese, not Sicilian. One of these days, you'll realize that there's a world of difference between the cutlures of the different regions of Italy. I know, I know...we all look the same to you.

As far as it not being a "race thing," prithee tell us...which racial/ethnic group has most of its kids born out of wedlock? Whose race has turned their daughters into bastard factories?

Says the wannabe WASP who is stuck on damning those n.iggers when the real bluebloods are damning those k.ikes.

Ah, going to the "acting white" card. That's typical for black folk. Being educated, successful, and monogamous doesn't mean "acting white." It means I'm living the American dream. Would you prefer I "keep it rill" and oversee hundreds of acres of vineyards, almond groves, and olive groves while refusing to "speaka the English?"

My grandfather came here as a so-called "olive skinned, garlic-scented dago" in 1920 and somehow managed to graduate high school, graduate from college, pick up an MBA, and work for Met Life. Oh, and he spoke four languages (including, of course, Italian) and was obviously VERY Italian in appearance.

Nobody in my family would be confused with a WASP, but we've never needed to go to the "help, help, I'm being repressed" card to explain away a lack of motivation or self-control.

Branding, and its history, is one of those things that set black fraternities apart from white.

Self-mutilation, especially in a way that echoes what was done to black slaves, is disgusting.

Let white boys measure manhood by drinking and raping. Black men can remember where they came from, and where they are determined to go instead.

Right, by burning their flesh with hot iron...like slave owners used to do. Brilliant.

And actually, fraternities by and large (black and white) measure manhood by the tenets of honor, fidelity, loyalty, and service to God and man. Your continued displays of ignorance in choosing to portray the basest levels of human behavior (alcohol abuse, physical abuse, raping, adultery) as the norm just shows what a pointless waste of bandwidth you truly are. Hell, you're not even an entertaining read. I may disagree with mvscal and Moving Sale on occassion, but you know what, they at least "bring the funnay" now and again. You're just a tedious cunt.

[Goober McTuber]

Interesting about the hippie frat boys. When I was a hippie in college at the UW (1970-1976), no self-respecting hippie would join a frat. Pretty unusual to see a frat boy smoking pot then, too.

[BSmack]

BSmack, is Mike a prude?

Maybe compared to Ron Jeremy. Otherwise, you're as far off the mark as you've been all along. But feel free to keep offering yourself up as a poorly informed piñata.

[Terry in Crapchester]

When I was a hippie in college at the UW (1970-1976), . . .

Seven years of college down the drain.

[BSmack]

Interesting about the hippie frat boys. When I was a hippie in college at the UW (1970-1976), no self-respecting hippie would join a frat. Pretty unusual to see a frat boy smoking pot then, too.

In 1984 it was damn unusual to not see weed at frat parties. At least in Geneseo. Almost every frat house I ever visited during my stay had a house bong. And just about every one had a house dealer or two. I suspect things have changed a bit since then. Though I doubt much has changed in any of the Gamma Chi houses. Those would be the hippies that Mike spoke of banishing. Last I heard they were still together and running their own Fly Day (down Risa, it's about insects) parties as a non Greek Council affiliated "social group".

[Mike the Lab Rat]

By the way, TDS Cunt (do you get it now? huh?):

- If I was half the "stereotypical Italian male" or puppetmaster you try to portray me as, don't you think I'd have gone to my fraternity convention REGARDLESS of what my wife and family wanted? Hell, I could have ditched the whole brood, gone down to Williamsburg to get rip-roaring drunk and screw around with some of those young William & Mary co-eds. Of course, since I'm NOT the stereotypical Italian/white frat guy you've been trying ineptly to describe me as...I'm going to Ocean City for a great time with my family and some friends.

- Secondly, considering the explosion of HIV infection in black women, how's that whole letting "adults" fuck around with whomever regardless of marital vows "thang" working out for you? Choices, including indiscriminate promiscuity, have consequences. Rut like animals, get diseases like animals.

[Goober McTuber]

When I was a hippie in college at the UW (1970-1976), . . .

Seven years of college down the drain.

Seven years? Law school must not have a math requirement. Idiot.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Easy there Goobs, I think Terrance was actually quoting from Animal House. Yes... he was actually making an attempt at humor! To finish off the quote:


"Might as well join the fucking Peace Corps!"


Sin,