Bottom line on Marty Schottenheimer

[Felix]

all anyone has to respond with is "4th and 11," and they just clowned your ass.

yep.......

martyball at it's "best".......

[Tom In VA]

Fuck...why am I or anyone else bothering discussing what it takes to win ....

Good point. Fuck if I knew that I'd be telling Joe Gibbs to relax and watch cars turn left while he counts his money from NASCAR and the Redskins.

[Mikey]

....more "eye of the tiger," if you will.

I wasn't sure you were a "fag"....until now.

[Tom In VA]

C'mon Mikey, he used the ""'s


Besides, back in the day, Rocky III was the bomb.

[Mikey]

I think that should just be ""s. There's never an apostrophe in a plural.

[Tom In VA]

You're not going to make me post that picture of the empty Charger's trophy case are you ?

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

To use as an example, San Diego, a mild favorite, beating a three time SB champion to the huge upset of Nova over Georgetown was quite a reach. If you can't admit that, then you are clueless. It's very simple.

This whole thing began because you erroneously believed I was some sort of Charger apologist, which you Tony Homo'ed, because I'm a New England Patriots fan and you've been treading water ever since. You've come up for air about 6 times since your first bleating and I've pushed your water-head below surface every damned time. Show me where I equated New England's chances to those of Villanova's. I all stated was, "sometimes... the better team doesn't win." That is all. You made the ensuing leap and continued on in your demonstration of dumbfuckery ever since.

[Dinsdale]

4th and 11


BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

I'm sure it was Rivers who called that play, though...Marty bears no responsibility whatsoever.


Aw fuck...why am I bothering...explaining football to Chargerfan is like nap-time for a narcoleptic -- useless.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

C'mon, everybody knows Marty is to blame.

Well...

He did have a certain "deer in the headlights" look about him after the McCree fumble right down until the clock showed 0:00.

I heard his explanation for the challenge was that Rivers talked him into it. Is this true?

[Tom In VA]

Actually as a Redskins fan, Dan Snyder is to blame, and apparently is STILL fucking around with the wop and getting involved in football decisions.

Marty got a raw deal here as did Spurrier. Gibbs knew what he was getting into and is here for the same reason everyone else is .... $$$$$$$$$


But ......


Marty does have a bad rep when it comes to playoffs.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

4th and 11

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Big fucking deal.

Surely you aren't stupid enough to suggest that that is why they lost the game...are you?

It's possible that it may have contributed to the outcome. That can definitely be argued. If he punted, maybe Gostkowski doesn't end up making a 50 yard FG on the ensuing drive. Subtract 3 pts and the Pats were down 21-10, not 21-13 at the time of the fumble. Which... oh btw, is two scores down, not one.

[Dinsdale]

Surely you aren't stupid enough to suggest that that is why they lost the game...are you?

This beating-down of Chargerfan could have some legs, I see.

Just stay down, Chargerfan...I believe the fancy word for that is "mitigate."


Well gee, you-who-is-in-agreement-with-the-Mastermind...what was the alternative to the 4th and 11 attempt?

A field goal, maybe?

What was the difference in that game? Remind me again?


But no, I guess you're right...when you're ahead, giving the ball to the MVP, who had been SHREDDING the defense, and was essentially unstoppable...THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE OPPONENT WAS EXPECTING, SO YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!! Since the underdog-road-team-who-was-behind was going to focus on stopping the unstoppable, common sense dictates that you take the MVP out of the game, and put the game in the hands of a relatively untested QB...because goodness knows, starting up the passing game when ahead on the scoreboard with clock to kill is a sound strategy.

Everyone knows you start airing it up with a lead, and use your MVP running back as a decoy...pure genius. With that 11-man blitz NE was throwing at them, what other alternative was there, really?



All hail the genius that IS Marty in the postseason.


Never seen this scenario before...mvscal says one thing, the scoreboard says the opposite....hmmmm....ponderous.

[BSmack]

Marty does have bad luck when it comes to playoffs.

Fixed.

Yea, going one and out with 2 13-3 teams, a 12-4 team and a 14-2 team was all bad luck.

The guy hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years. At some point in time "bad luck" ceases to be an excuse.

[Sirfindafold]

You're joking, right? C'mon, everybody knows Marty is to blame. As soon as he leaves, championships and glorious success follow as if by magic.

TRANSLATED: If Marty can bring us a 14-2 regular season record, I'm alright with an early exit from the playoffs cause I'm a charger fan and low expectations comes with the territory.

[Dinsdale]

And why is it when I read mvscal's posts in this thread, the words "Stockholm Syndrome" keep popping to mind?

[Ken]

4th and 11

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Big fucking deal.

Surely you aren't stupid enough to suggest that that is why they lost the game...are you?

It's possible that it may have contributed to the outcome. That can definitely be argued.

... and the very same argument could have been made about the idiotic red flag. It very well could have contributed to the ill-fated outcome of the game.

4th and 11
Stevie Wonder Red Flag

Yeah, I'd say those were contributing factors.

[Dinsdale]

Let's not forget...1st and 10. Thurman Tomlinson gets 6. 2nd and 4...clock ticking.


Hmmm....what to call next? Well, the MVP is averaging 6 yards a carry so far, and just ran for 6 when they were fully expecting a run by Dick Butkus. Hmmm....what to call...

THAT'S IT!!!! Let's have our rookie-for-all-intents-and-purposes start airing it up.


Bad play-calling by...Rivers...he's the boss, right?

[Dinsdale]

He probably should have punted, though.

You mean he should have communicated to the defense that "I have faith in you," rather than sending the message "you fucking suck so badly, Defense, that a 4th and 11 attempt is preferable to putting the game in your hands, even with them pinned deep"?


Yup...that's not on Marty, at all, and has NO BEARING on his stellar playoff record.


You, and the rest of the Discharge fans' word for the day is "mitigate." And once you figure out how to do that(you're deeply mired in the very opposite, in case you hadn't noticed...hence the days-long pile-on), you might consider shooting Barry Sanders Tomlinson an e-mail or something.

[Sirfindafold]

Punt from the 31?

you're a fuckin' jerkoff.

[Degenerate]

In fairness to Marty here, that 4th and 11 had to bring back some bad memories for him. In his 1995 choke against Indianapolis, he kept relying on the flimsy Lin Elliott, playing for the tie in nasty wind and ten degree weather. During his 1997 choke against Denver, he actually PUNTED from the Denver 31 yard line in the fourth quarter with his team down on the scoreboard. And in his 2004 choke against the Jets, against a defense that had been on the field for almost all of the fourth quarter, after ramming the ball down the field in their first OT drive, he decides to call three pussified line plunges and leaves it up to a rookie kicker on a shitty surface.

Bad luck, I tell you. Bad luck.

[Dinsdale]

No, Cam Cameron is calling the plays.

And his immediate supervisor is who?

So, YOU feel Marty is competent to coach a playoff team...which puts you in disagreement with Marty. If Cameron was calling the plays with no input from Marty, then it was an admission by Marty that he wasn't qualified to make those calls.

Either way, it makes your pro-Marty(scoreboard, much?) stance sound all the more stupid...mvstockholm.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

The alternative is a 48 yard field goal attempt into the wind or a punt. Both the field goal and the 4th down conversion were very low percentage plays, so I don't see it as a big deal at all let alone the deciding factor in the game.

He probably should have punted, though.

In warm-ups, the kicker usually figures out how far he can make it from both ends of the field. I am assuming Kaeding's best facing that direction was less than 48 yards. FG probably was not an option. It was either go for it on 4th and 11, or punt. Looking at his field position, I would agree with Marty going for it if he needed 5 yards or less. But 11... against one of the toughest defenses in the league? Come on....

[Dinsdale]

I am assuming Kaeding's best facing that direction was less than 48 yards. FG probably was not an option.

In which case, giving the kicker a chance at it anyway would send what kind of message to his defense?

A positive one?

Through actions, rather than words, Marty made it VERY clear to his defense that they sucked. Bottom line. There's another term for that...they call it "shitty coaching."


Confidence in the players' ability to do their job is what separates winning coaches from losers...an example that was demonstrated for the umpteenth time in that game...regardless how the idiotic Boltsfans see it.

[Tom In VA]

He's not out there dropping passes, getting flagged for dumb penalties or getting the ball stripped loose.

True, but perhaps the message he sends, causes these things to happen.

[Dinsdale]

The message that he was trying to send is that we needed to score touchdowns not kick field goals to win the game.

Oh, dear.

Kind of like that touchdown the Patsies won the game with, or were you referring to the missed field goal THAT THE CHARGERS FAILED TO HIT TO WIN THE GAME?

Really? I didn't realize the Chargers had lost by 6+ points.

The way you beat them is knock them out and put the score out of reach.

How'd that work out for you?

Yeah, that "let the semi-rookie air it out to strike the knockout blow WHILE WE'RE AHEAD" was a real winner there.

It was the right message.

That only half of the team was responsible for making plays?

Light coming on about Martyball, dumbass?

He's not out there dropping passes, getting flagged for dumb penalties or getting the ball stripped loose.

Nope...he's just responsible for having them mentally prepared to not make those mistakes...he failed miserably.

Dude...Pop Fucking Warner DB's know that you knock a 4th down pass when you're ahead or the score is tied...Pop Fucking Warner. But do Marty's teams know this?


I don't really think you grasp just how fucking dumb you sound right now...did you happen to catch the score of the game?

Following your reasoning to its logical conclusion, the outcome would have been the same with no coaches on the sideline. While this strategy may be sound when Marty is the one in charge, as a general rule, it makes you a fucking idiot.

[Tom In VA]

mvscal, I was kidding.


Look Marty doesn't need a defender. He's a very successful coach in his own right, the big Bowl just happens to elude him.

All this thread is doing is looking at what they think Marty did wrong in that game.

If Marty if half the coach you think he is and his record lends creedence to that, he's doing the same thing.

Maybe he'll learn something.

Yea, going one and out with 2 13-3 teams, a 12-4 team and a 14-2 team was all bad luck.

The guy hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years. At some point in time "bad luck" ceases to be an excuse.

Or maybe he won't. :lightheartedjab:

[Dinsdale]

Is that what they work on in practice?

If they're not working on real game situations, what exactly are they working on? How they hope the game will play out, rather than how the game might actually play out?

Yup, outstanding coaching. Way to cover all scenarios, Bozo.

And the hits keep coming. Funny how that works when you're trying to defend an indefesible situation...then again, in Marty/mvscal's world, the Patriots having the ball on their own 5 is an "indefensible situation."

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I am assuming Kaeding's best facing that direction was less than 48 yards. FG probably was not an option.

In which case, giving the kicker a chance at it anyway would send what kind of message to his defense?

A positive one?

Through actions, rather than words, Marty made it VERY clear to his defense that they sucked. Bottom line. There's another term for that...they call it "shitty coaching."


Confidence in the players' ability to do their job is what separates winning coaches from losers...an example that was demonstrated for the umpteenth time in that game...regardless how the idiotic Boltsfans see it.

Actually, by going for it, Marty was telling his defense that he had confidence in them to stop the Patriots, even if he gave them such good field position after inevitably failing to make the 4th down play. If he went for the FG, he would still be telling his defense that he was supremely confident in them, because you'd be adding 7 more yards to the Patriots starting field position. You punt if you have less confidence in your D, because you'd be making the Patriots go that much farther in order to score.

The point being, it was a reckless play calling by going for it. Actually it may even stretch into borderline "what the fuck are you doing, Cicero?" territory.

[jiminphilly]

Confidence in the players' ability to do their job is what separates winning coaches from losers...an example that was demonstrated for the umpteenth time in that game...regardless how the idiotic Boltsfans see it.

You're kidding right? So you agreed with Andy Reid's decision to punt the ball on 4th and 15 against the Saints?

[Dinsdale]

You're kidding right? So you agreed with Andy Reid's decision to punt the ball on 4th and 15 against the Saints?

Absolutely not.

And if you find even the remotest similarities in those two real-game situations, then...


You're kidding, right?

[jiminphilly]

You're kidding right? So you agreed with Andy Reid's decision to punt the ball on 4th and 15 against the Saints?

Absolutely not.

And if you find even the remotest similarities in those two real-game situations, then...


You're kidding, right?

No I'm addressing this-

Confidence in the players' ability to do their job is what separates winning coaches from losers

Andy Reid has gotten burned time and time again for doing just this. He is rapidly becoming the NFC version of Marty.

[Dinsdale]

They are the ones who didn't get it done in crunch time.

Yeah...it was Rivers that decided to keep it out of Roger Craig's hands, and have the might-as-well-be-a-rook attempt long downfield passes with the game on the line, and the clock on their side...resulting in an interception(by the "sorriest corner in the league," no less).

Yup...that's all on the players.


Genius fucking take.

Yes...the players must execute and make plays. What you fail to grasp is that it's coaching's job to put them in favorable situations to make that so...and I sincerely hope you keep trying to ignore or argue against this very basic concept...because I'm laughing down to my gonads over this fucking clownshow that IS Chargerfan.

Top-to-fucking-bottom...LOOOOOOOSERS!!!!!! At least Saints fans of old had a sense of humor about it.


:BIGSHOCKER: that the Chargers lost...loser coach, loser players, and the driving force behind it all is the loser fans that still don't understand what winning is all about, and fail to see that it's a "top-to-bottom" proposition...because they're losers. And when the people paying the bills(the fans) are complete fucking losers, who find strength in numbers by defending losers, is the end result(which Chargerfan still doesn't seem to grasp) really all that suprising?

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

resulting in an interception(by the "sorriest corner in the league," no less)

Forget it. You're (t)rolling.

[Dinsdale]

Yes...the players must execute and make plays.

There ya go.

And if only Rivers WOULDN'T HAVE CALLED that play, where he attempted to thread-the-needle over that one sorry corner, and executed that VERY HIGH-RISK play when there was absolutely no reason to put high-risk shit in the game, they could have won.

I mean, those darn players, calling for long pokes downfield when they should have been grinding clock...what were they thinking. That 4th and 11* try the players called for, instead of trying to put...how many points is a FG worth again...isn't it somewhere around the score differential in that game...remind me again...?


* -- The phrase "4th and 11" should stop being funny right around either 2058, or when Marty coaches his team to a Super Bowl win**, whichever happens first.


** -- Since Chargerfan has proven just how fucking sloooowwwww they are....that was a joke, kiddies

[Tom In VA]

Scapegoating Marty for this loss is wrong and it definitely would send the wrong message both to the shit skids on the team and the morons rooting for the team who seem to think that a change in coaching is the cure to everything that ails the Bolts.

The scapegoating is based on the fact ...

The guy hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years. At some point in time "bad luck" ceases to be an excuse.

You preaching to the choir about it though. I don't think he should be removed. But I'm also knowledgeable enough about football to know that Marty is accepting and examining HIS role in the loss and accepting responsibility for it. That's all matters, to the team you support. As a fan, he doesn't need YOUR defense.

[Dinsdale]

At some point in time "bad luck" ceases to be an excuse.

In the words of MMA great Ralph Gracie -- "I was very lucky today. And the better I train, the luckier I get."


Apparently, every time Marty looks into the mirror to see where things went wrong, he accidentally breaks it...


Yeah, that's the ticket...luck.

[Dinsdale]

"Muslims are just unlucky that all of those sociopathic suicide bombers just happen to be from the Religion Of Peace."

Sin,
mvschottenheimer

[KC Scott]

It is my belief that SD was the better team and lost.

No question SD had superior talent, There was also no question they would Lose to NE.

Marty is Marty and he's a Loser.

Hilarious that Spanos will let his team age another year under a lame duck coach.
Let's see, the last time the Martygers lost in the first round vs. the Jest,
they didn't make the playoffs the next season.

I'd say that's the likely outcome for 2007.

================================================

Sweet - we'll have company in the basement.

Sin,

The 'duhs & the Chefs

[Joe in PB]

Yes...the players must execute and make plays.

There ya go. Baby steps.

Absolutely correct and last Sunday they didn't execute, they didn't make plays and they lost the game.

Being an old Redskins fan, I remember Joe Gibbs having a full hitting practice (minus QB/RB) during their bye week in the playoffs. That kept the team sharp for their playoff match up the following week. Based on the poor play by the Bolts WR's and DB's, it looked liked they had been practicing at 3/4 speed ever since the Az game.

Coincidence? I think not.

The Chargers were healthy......but rusty.....and rusty doesn't get it done in the playoffs.

As RaiDuh fan knows the old adage is true. A team plays like they practice.

Without question Marty should be shouldering most of the blame for the loss.

[Joe in PB]

So it's just coincidence the Chargers played their worst game of the year in the playoffs?